I'm a horrible owner--now what?

[thatdjguy]

I've been a lazy owner--no two ways about it. Didn't winterize for two years now. Water pump went up, toilet flange leaking, hot water heater blew out and I *fixed* it, tho who knows.

Now the floor. The floor to at least half of the camper I believe is dry rotted...I believe this happened after the water pump was damaged due to not winterizing.

I get it, it's all user error, no need to pile on. I'm not handy...far from it. I am taking the camper to a repair facility. How much can I expect to pay for new flooring? Give me a range if you can so I know how much I need to earmark.

[JRTJH]

I believe you have a 2015 Passport 2920. If so, depending on the extent of damage, you could be in for a significant repair cost. The floor is a sandwich construction, not as easy to replace as a 5/8" OSB sheet floor. Then there is the extent of damage to the underside, the ducting, plumbing, insulation, whether any of the damage extended beyond the floor and into the walls (carpet wicking water up the walls) and whether there is any other damage from mold that will need to be cleaned and treated.

All in all, it could be as inexpensive as a couple thousand dollars or it could be significantly more, possibly even more than the trailer's value, although that would be an "extreme case".... Keep us posted on what your repair facility tells you, possibly, based on that you might get some better insight from members here. But, if, as you say, you're not a handyman and must rely on a repair facility, then pretty much, it's get 2 or 3 estimates and pick the one you trust and/or can afford.

You might want to contact your insurance agent, possibly you have coverage that would help with the loss.

[sourdough]

John has given you some pretty good guidance. Until the extent of damage is known it will be difficult, nigh onto impossible, to predict what you may face.

I'm not trying to pile on but, there is a difference between not being handy and being "lazy". There are things I used to be able to do that I can no longer do even though I'm pretty handy. It doesn't mean that they shouldn't be done or can be left undone. I just pay someone to do them. You should do the same in your case. To do nothing and just wait for the "bad" to happen is a losing course of action because the "bad" will definitely happen. We all know the phrase "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"; in this case a couple hundred bucks of maintenance could have saved you what may be thousands in repair bills.

Not piling on, wanting to start negative comments or being tacky. Just want to point out that there are ways to take care of the maintenance items even if you aren't handy.....and they are worth doing as you've found out. I'm hoping it's not bad and the learning experience isn't very painful. Good luck.

[ctbruce]

I think this will wind up being one of the most helpful threads we've had. Thanks for stepping up and being brave to share your issues. Keep us posted as I am certain this will help others.

[madmaxmutt]

Sorry this happened to you! Stuff happens. It sounds like you are ready to move forward. If you do have insurance, I agree that you should contact them if this sounds like the claim is worth your while. The hail damage on my last trailer was nearly bad enough to total that trailer. If it had been minor, I wouldn't have filed a claim for possible rising rates. You just have to make that call for your situation.

[notanlines]

DJGuy, no piling on here. Things happen. If the repair bill is way out of line I would give some thought to laminating CDX plywood over the existing wood flooring. The area in front of your one slide will be a small problem, but this could be done if you took your time. I might add that you're looking at adding another 250 pounds or so, but better than nothing.

[thatdjguy]

I hear y'all loud and clear. I never even considered insurance, that might be a silver lining as I was hoping 2-3k would cover the cost. Should I approach the insurance company first or take it to a shop and then show the insurance company what's up?


and absolute laziness and being stupid is the cause of this. I F'd up--I didn't winterize. I own it. It wont be repeated.

[JRTJH]

I would suggest contacting your insurance agent first. Discuss the problem with the agent. They may want to delay contacting a service center. Most insurance companies have adjusters who will assess the problem and do an initial cost estimate. If that estimate is above an established percentage of the trailer value, (varies from company to company) they will often simply write it off as a total loss. If it's less than that percentage, there may be some suggestions the agent or adjuster could provide to save you money. They usually work with and are familiar with the reputations of repair facilities and should know which ones do good work for a reasonable charge and which do substandard work and/or charge too much for the work they do.

Remember, your insurance agent "should be" your friend. They are, at least initially, on your team and almost always will work with you to get the best outcome. They only become adversaries when there's a disagreement, but don't "borrow trouble". Talk to your agent, see what they say.....

[thatdjguy]

Insurance adjuster coming out next week. Fingers crossed.

[JRTJH]

Good Deal !!! Keep us posted on what your insurance will cover and what the adjuster says. While your specific problem may not apply to other's damaged trailers, some of what you experience will be valuable to any owner in a similar situation. Good Luck

[thatdjguy]

the adjuster suggested that perhaps the water came in through the roof via pinholes in the seams. My wife's grandfather who has been camping forever noticed two dents in the upper part of the camper that faces the truck when towing-He said that was water damage--I thought it might be blistering from the sun.

My initial thought was that because I didn't winterize it, the pump blew and leaked all throughout the camper and then that water sat all summer.

The adjuster all but said it's a total loss--and he didn't leave me feeling good that the insurance would cover. Not feeling to great about that.

All he kept saying was that these trailers fall apart as soon as you buy them. Really wish I did some homework before getting all happy go lucky and buying a trailer when I was as green as green gets.

More updates as I get the phone call.

[sourdough]

Here's hoping you get good news and wishing you the best of luck. We were all green at one time and made our first timer mistakes - usually nothing TOO severe. I hope yours is not the total loss of your trailer.

[thatdjguy]

the more I think--the less I believe that the lack of winterizing caused this. How could that lead to floor rot? A leek coming from the ceiling, unseen and sitting/waiting/rotting seems more likely. I dunno.

But these things are much to fragile to spend $25k on em. Not a happy camper.

[JRTJH]

Something to consider about insurance (and these comments are not directed about you specifically)....

Insurance, as stated on this forum time and time again, is a means to protect against loss from people doing stupid things, illegal things and also to protect against people NOT doing things.

Cases in point, driving while intoxicated, stupid, but insurance covers any damage that might be caused by the driver. Speeding, again, not so smart, but if the driver runs into a building, insurance pays the damages. It's the same with a driver who failed to have his brakes repaired, runs a stop sign because he couldn't stop his vehicle, hits a car "broadside". Again, insurance pays even though the driver "didn't repair his vehicle"...

So, don't get completely discouraged just yet. I know of many accounts on this forum and from friends who have had damages to their property who have been reimbursed by their insurance. I've got one friend who had a leak in the awning rail on his trailer, water destroyed the entire sidewall. Insurance "totaled" his trailer, paid him the appraised value and he used that as a down payment to buy a new trailer.

You might want to keep a level head, ask the right questions to the adjuster and not accept the first denial but maintain a positive attitude and work with the adjuster to help move things to an acceptable outcome.

Hopefully you have insurance that will cover the loss, whether it's a roof leak or a winterization problem. From your mortgage company's perspective, the comprehensive insurance they required you to carry is to protect their loan value. Read your policy carefully, know what it says and what it doesn't say. If you're not sure about what you read, now is the time to get legal advice from someone who knows the insurance laws of your state.

Good Luck

[thatdjguy]

Got a May 22 date at the dealer to get an idea of what's goin' on. At least I'll have a clue

[AbHDToyHauler]

Also I might add. Don't admit to anything. If you say it's all your fault....then it's all your fault. My sister was painting her family room after she had installed new carpets. She took the whole can of paint up the ladder and within minutes had proceeded to dump it all over the new floor. It had drop sheets but floor ended up ruined. They replaced it all under insurance. So don't be disheartened. Also. Rot doesn't proceed that quickly.

[thatdjguy]

Yea, I didn't admit to anything. Just said "I think it's coming from the pump area since that's where a soft spot is and it's right there on that side of the bed". HE drew his own conclusion about a possible seam issue. I just stood there like a damn fool (not exactly an act!) and said "well, that sounds possible."

Now it's hurry up and wait. Push pause on this one, be back in a month!

[thatdjguy]

Also, assuming I've stopped any leaks--fixed the toilet flange and replaced a bad water pump. Is there any harm in still using the camper? Not prior to getting it to the dealer, but if they say no dice, we're not covering and I can't throw a fit big enough to change that, is there any danger in continuing to use it, while dancing around the soft spots?

[thatdjguy]

did some digging and found this picture from another thread. Seems this is a common issue. Would this be the cause of a leak that could cause extensive dry rot damage to the floor?

[thatdjguy]

i dont understand?

[notanlines]

DJ, I didn't understand the comment either. Life goes on. I believe you have received a minimum of two good pieces of advice on this forum. Don't admit to anything is number one, and seek a little legal advice is number two. I might also add that the "nice guy" thing only goes so far. You'll catch a large number of flies with honey, but the killing will be done with a swatter. Be reasonable, but be firm. Don't back down. If it is said that the floor is rotted out because of the seam at the roof then I want to see the route the water took and the rot involved on that route.
Luck to you, my friend.

[thatdjguy]

So this has been heavy on my mind now for a few days. Looking forward--if the trailer is considered lost and the insurance doesn't step up, is the removal of the flooring something that is pretty straight forward? I know it's costly for the dealership--but is it as simple as taking out all the furniture and than removing the floor? Is it worth the effort to try?

[mskeyspirate]

Not sure if I just skipped over the facts or not. Probably....I'll reread to make sure. But, I have a 2015 Passport that I just had to replace the front cap due to my missing a spot when it came to sealing. That little mistake cost me just short of $2000.00. Not sure of the year of your camper, but if it were me, I'd pick a dollar amount, stick to it, and scrap it, if it goes over that amount. When you get done with all the repairs, it's only going to be worth what it's worth. There comes a point when throwing money at it, doesn't make sense.

[travelin texans]

So this has been heavy on my mind now for a few days. Looking forward--if the trailer is considered lost and the insurance doesn't step up, is the removal of the flooring something that is pretty straight forward? I know it's costly for the dealership--but is it as simple as taking out all the furniture and than removing the floor? Is it worth the effort to try?

Replacing the floor would be a LOT of work & expense!
When they build these things the frame comes in upside down where the holding tanks, wiring, axles & underbelly are installed, frame flipped over & the floor with ALL the flooring (vinyl, carpet, etc) is laid, then EVERYTHING else is built up from there, cabinet, islands, interior/exterior walls all set on the floor.

[tundrwd]

So this has been heavy on my mind now for a few days. Looking forward--if the trailer is considered lost and the insurance doesn't step up, is the removal of the flooring something that is pretty straight forward? I know it's costly for the dealership--but is it as simple as taking out all the furniture and than removing the floor? Is it worth the effort to try?

I'd check a few YouTube videos where people have done that. Both repair and restoration. It'd give you an idea of what's involved. Not sure about the laminating idea though - usually dry rot just continues on until you get rid of the affected wood and treat it. So it may "infect" the new wood too over time.

Dry rot is caused by a fungus - so until you get rid of it - it just keeps going. If it's just water damage that's delaminated the wood, or caused the OSB to separate - then that's a tad different. I've had dry rot in window sills on my house, and one common treatment to surrounding wood is to just brush on antifreeze (ethylene glycol). Kills the fungus and prevents it from growing back. And cheaper/easier than most other methods. Just don't leave around for animals/pets to lap up - it'll kill them, and since it has a sweet taste - they WANT to lap it up.

[CaptnJohn]

The pump and lines hold only so much water, unless you had water in the tank and left the pump run. Unlikely! I'd be more prone to believe water intrusion from the roof, a slide seal, or where something is attached. Water will travel a strange route at times and over a long distance.
Is your pump on floor level? Mine, all those I remember, have been below the floor ~~ 5ers!

[thatdjguy]

yes it is---right by the bedrooms nightstand.

[thatdjguy]

just to revisit--she's goin' to the shop today. Fingers crossed

[notanlines]

We all have our fingers crossed for you....

[thatdjguy]

Been in the shop for a month...don't even have an estimate yet. Keep saying "their floor guy hasn't been out yet". Really frustrating. Did get a phone call today from the adjuster saying that all damage was caused by failure to maintain (seals on roof) and that my claim will not be covered. Only about a third of the floor is soft, however--so it's not the entire flooring of the unit. That said, I'm sure this will get expensive.

how something so big and massive can get away with being so delicate is beyond me. It's my fault, I own it--we bought the damn thing all giddy and happy to go camping without having a clue. They saw us comin' a mile away.

[cavediver]

thatdjguy I'm another guy that neglected maintenance. I've been doing mine for the last three weeks. On the positive side I've learned a lot about how these things are put together. And how important maintenance is. That and a good dealer. Good luck with yours's. I just picked up a Premier Bullet 26RBPR. for my wife and I. I'll give the other one to my son when it's done.

[sourdough]

Just for thought;

I'm in the middle, again, of cleaning slide seals, sealing roof seams, looking under/over/around literally everything that is in/on our trailer. Things peel off. They deteriorate, and I keep mine stored in a very nice covered/enclosed facility.

When many/most folks, this is my assumption, buy a trailer they think they just bought a trouble free, rolling house. It is SO different. The first few trailers I had I had very few issues but I only had them for a couple of years at most, and, they were not complicated like they are now.

The importance of maintenance, documented if you have an extended warranty policy, cannot be overstated. It seems like a real pain but, once you get used to it, I enjoy going to the trailer, giving it the once over, crawling around over and under it...it has to be done. And, I don't have all the play toys; Corvette, Z28, off road vehicles I used to have that required far more than the RV. Take care of it, watch over it and it will take care of you. JMO - YMMV

[thatdjguy]

Wanted to revisit this. Believe it or not, it's still in the shop. I called about a month ago furious as to why i haven't even received a phone call--they fumbled and said they hadn't heard back from my insurance company? I was pissed---they're not the client I brought it in--they never communicated.

They told me the floor was rotted but there's really nothing they can do because the entire subfloor is some sort of molded foam--he said "like in an igloo cooler"

said best bet was to take top vinyl up, spray with bleach, and put some sort of subfloor over it. BAsically, i wont fall through the floor given the structure underneath, but the stuff laying on top of that is def. rotted.

I just called today (4 months plus after bringing it in) and got more of the same. Nobody seems to know anything and I keep getting "uh, we're waiting on the decision for the floor"

I'm so beyond frustrated. I'm about to lay plywood down and call it done. F this dealer

[LuvsPalmTrees]

I am so sorry this is happening to you. We all learn from our mistakes and you seem to have owned it. I had a lot of trouble with the dealership that we purchased ours from. We dropped it off early November and it was insurance work, it took them till May and a lot of threats to get it all done. Even the insurance company got all over them to get it done. A lot of excuses, when we picked it up the work looked like I did it. If I were you I would really think about it and if you can - go in person and talk to them. People can say a lot on the phone, but when you are face to face they tend to be more honest.
Good Luck and don't be to hard on yourself. Lesson learned.

[JRTJH]

^^^ Totally agree !!!

At this point, I believe I'd head to the dealership, locate the service manager (NOT the service writer) and drag him to the general manager's office, close the door and tell them what you expect. Control the meeting agenda, don't allow them to appease you with BS and divert you away from the issue of their failure. Be reasonable, and lay out what you expect and give them a time line that will work for you. If they can't meet that, then take your trailer, find someone else to repair it and cut your losses. It's readily apparent that whomever has handled the repair from the time you delivered it for repair until present has failed COMPLETELY. If you allow them to keep failing you, it's your fault, not theirs. Change the general manager's involvement by holding him accountable. If he doesn't agree, find a new place to spend your money......

Fortunately for you, we're entering a time when RV repair is going into the winter lull. You know it, the dealer knows it. He's about to start laying people off until spring, so the more jobs he can acquire, the less "unemployment" he'll have to pay. If he wants your business, he definitely needs to earn it. If he doesn't, he should tell you he's not concerned and doesn't want the job so you can get it repaired elsewhere. Be sure he knows you won't be buying your next trailer from him under those circumstances....

You're the one with the "big wallet about to be emptied" so be sure that you spend your cash at a business that appreciates you and your money.

[Local150]

I know a guy that had a 1 year old very nice TT. One fall they put it in a barn on their property that was no longer her used. In the spring they got it out and the mice had ate it up. The I insurance company called it as a total loss

[sourdough]

Wanted to revisit this. Believe it or not, it's still in the shop. I called about a month ago furious as to why i haven't even received a phone call--they fumbled and said they hadn't heard back from my insurance company? I was pissed---they're not the client I brought it in--they never communicated.

They told me the floor was rotted but there's really nothing they can do because the entire subfloor is some sort of molded foam--he said "like in an igloo cooler"

said best bet was to take top vinyl up, spray with bleach, and put some sort of subfloor over it. BAsically, i wont fall through the floor given the structure underneath, but the stuff laying on top of that is def. rotted.

I just called today (4 months plus after bringing it in) and got more of the same. Nobody seems to know anything and I keep getting "uh, we're waiting on the decision for the floor"

I'm so beyond frustrated. I'm about to lay plywood down and call it done. F this dealer


John is right. The time has come for YOU to own this conversation. It's also time for the GM/owner to own the problem. Do NOT let this issue be addressed by anyone other than the top guy. Service writers, and even the service manager, can tend to blow you off. Put it in the big guys lap.

If they are working with the insurance company you need to be involved in that. YOU pay the insurance company and they answer to you. Find out what's going on from them.

On my initial experiences (failures) with this trailer, I went directly to the dealership, found the owner/GM and we went to his office. I related all of my experiences, their failures, my frustrations and my expectations going forward....from him; not the service dept., not the SM or someone else...him. I got his office number, cell number and home number. I told him that I expected him to be involved EVERY day with my issue and I would call him ANYTIME on any day when I felt they were failing. All communication was to be with him and no one else. That went on for a few months until they hired a new service manager and I began working with him once I felt comfortable with him (he seemed competent). You have to take ownership and control of this problem because it is painfully apparent the dealership can't or won't. JMO, YMMV

[SummitPond]

Good advice from above ^^^ get the GM/owner involved. We had an issue that was not resolved until we talked with the GM. Amazing what can happen then! Good luck.

[LuvsPalmTrees]

I might go one step further and type up a schedule and use it to keep yourself on task while you are talking to them. This will help you stay focused and they cannot BS you off task. Maybe give them a copy of what you expect. You can always refer to it when you call and check on it to make sure they are doing what you expect them to do. If they do not agree, go someplace else. Your money, your the boss.

[flybouy]

Totally agree on the statements above. Three years ago ours was broken into and $4,000 damages. This guy broke into over 50 campers in 3 storage lots and 2 dealerships, including the dealer where I purchased mine. Because of this I gave the dealer some leniency fully realizing they would prioritize repairing the 19 units they had that were vandalized. So that's the backstory.
When I spoke with them in person and made the appointment to drop off the unit I agreed on a price to replace the front graphic as it was fading. Drop off was March 14. Several weeks went by and no communication, several messages were placed via phone and no return calls. So around April mid month I stop by the dealership. Fortunately it's only a few miles from home. Asked to see the service manager. We meet and agreed to a schedule and updates. Several agreed upon updates all I heard was excuses. So, went back to dealer, now first of May and asked to speak to GM. Sat down with him and explained what had transpired with every date/time of calls and what transpired. So, now after hearing yada, yada, yada why everything went south the GM agrees to a schedule and gives me his cell phone number so there is "guaranteed communication". Two weeks later I get a call from the GM, it's ready for pick up!
Go to pick it up and the front cap, complete with new graphic looks like it has large drops of water on it. Upon inspection the graphic has a ton of bubbles in it. Push on the bubbles and find the fiberglass cap has a ton of dents in it. I asked the GM if he thought it was acceptable that they removed the old graphic with a mining pick. You can't make this stuff up.
Now it's mid June. So, during this time I ordered and received new tires for the camper. As part of the compensation for all that transpired the GM agreed to have the tires mounted, metal valve stems, and balancing. Then more excuses. Now I'm communicating via text messages to the GM daily at minimum. First it was the tires. The shop they deal with doesn't balance trailer tires, lug centric balancing. Well I guess you need to "deal" with a shop that does, that's our agreement. Time goes by and the text messages are numerous. After about 50 text messages and a pile of excuses I print out the messages and fax them along with a detailed list of what transpired complete with dates, times, who I spoke or dealt with and the results of that action to the corporate office that owns the dealership. I explained my frustrations and my intent to forward this information to the BBB and the Consumer Protection division of the Maryland State Attorneys office. Such a shame. When we bought the camper the dealer owner was an old acquaintance from childhood. We were boy scouts in the same group and he treated me well, as he did all his customers. Anyway back to the saga. My message to Finally get a call end of June and we are ready. Make appointment to inspect and pick up.
Arrive at dealer and see a lot of people standing around looking at a huge fiver in front of my unit. Walk up and couldn't believe my eyes. Some idiot decided it was a good idea to park a fiver with a fork lift and no spotter in front of my camper. You can't make this stuff up.
The fiver suffered more damage than our camper. Rear cap busted beyond repair, ladder bent like a pretzel. Our camper had the electric tongue jack broken and some minor scratches in the cap that would buff out.
So the bs continues. The GM sends me a text that they can't find the jack to replace it. Now the jack is Husky Brute 4000R with the remote control. They sell it in their store! I swear, you can't make this stuff up.
I ask to meet him that day and he agrees. I call the corp office, explain who I am and ask to speak to someone in upper management from my cell phone setting in the dealers parking lot. I guess my previous correspondence with the corp office got someone's attention. The VP of operations comes on line and I ask him to hold on while I walk in. I see the GM and ask what the issue is with replacing my jack. He starts his song and dance and tells me they don't make them any longer. I tell him to walk with me the 30' to his parts store. I point out the three jacks, identical to mine setting on his shelf. So, the guy on the phone asked me to hand my phone to the GM. After a few yes sirs he hands me my phone from a sweating shaking hand.
About 1/2 hr later I get a very apologetic call back from the VP asking me if I could possibly give them 24 hrs to "make this right". This was about 3 p.m.
Next morning at nine get a call from the "new" GM (the old assistant GM) to come pick up the camper. We arrive and everything appears to be ok from a distance. The new GM sees me arrive and runs outside to greet me. He profusely apologizes for all the "inconveniences" and offers a bunch of freebies as a peace offering. So, if your still with me here's the final chapter.
We walk out to the camper and I look at the new jack and ask the GM to get the Service Manager. The jack came with the Brute Super foot flip up jack foot and yup, they put it on backwards. You just can't make this stuff up.

So, I apologize for the length of this post. Point is, they just flat out don't care. Here I thought take it back to the dealer, they sold it, they work on on this brand, who better to know the part numbers, finishes, etc. There was considerable damage to the interior and I must say the tech that did that work did a fantastic job and yes, I gave that tech credit thru every step of escalation. Lessoned learned, I will never return to that dealer. There is an RV repair company about 17 miles away that only does repairs, no sales. That will be my future destination if I need to have work done that I'm not capable of doing myself.

[LuvsPalmTrees]

I feel your pain flybouy. Our saga was about a lengthy as yours. I summarized because like you said "you can' make that stuff up". I will never deal with that dealership again. I choose a dealership that was not a big name, a Mom & Pop and I felt would give me a more personal feel. Nope, not so. Live and learn.

[notanlines]

Flybouy, thanks for taking the time to tell your experience. Deals like that are the reason I don’t go around armed.

[thatdjguy]

Finally some progress and believe it or not, it came after I tracked down their facebook page and threatened negative reviews/publicity. Long story short, the damage I caused from not winterizing properly will cost about $3k to fix--that's material and labor. That addresses everything but repairing the soft floor--they kept telling me that would be thousands...when it really doesn't sound like it. There are three major spots of softness--beside each side of the master, and by the entrance. They told me that under the laminate is a thin layer of what is similar to laun flooring. He told me that under that is an enclosed foam subfloor that can not really be damage by water...and to get into and replace that would mean the entire floor of the coach. Anyway, they told me to take up the vinyl and soft floor and simply replace it with something from lowes...some sort of pre-fabbed floor.

I'm not sure that I buy that, but there is another shop around that's not big, not corporate. I'll see if they can offer solutions. All I've got from this big shop is excuses and reasons why they cant fix the floor. Beyond frustrating.


To put a bow on all of this--We are sucker-customers. We thought "hey, let's buy a camper" and that's what we did. Never towed a thing in my life--no clue about these things and as somebody said previously--we thought we bought a maintenance free home on wheels. It's cost us a ton but to be honest, the memories we've made have been worth it...even with these headaches. We'll figure something with the floor--even if I just throw a sheet of plywood over the softspots...at this point, it doesn't have to look good, and we'll go make some more.

Thanks for everybody's help.

[LuvsPalmTrees]

Hey thatdjguy - not too bad. I am so glad that you worked this out and can move on and make more memories. That is what is most important. We all learn from our mistakes, and we all make them. Good Luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[flybouy]

Finally some progress and believe it or not, it came after I tracked down their facebook page and threatened negative reviews/publicity. Long story short, the damage I caused from not winterizing properly will cost about $3k to fix--that's material and labor. That addresses everything but repairing the soft floor--they kept telling me that would be thousands...when it really doesn't sound like it. There are three major spots of softness--beside each side of the master, and by the entrance. They told me that under the laminate is a thin layer of what is similar to laun flooring. He told me that under that is an enclosed foam subfloor that can not really be damage by water...and to get into and replace that would mean the entire floor of the coach. Anyway, they told me to take up the vinyl and soft floor and simply replace it with something from lowes...some sort of pre-fabbed floor.

I'm not sure that I buy that, but there is another shop around that's not big, not corporate. I'll see if they can offer solutions. All I've got from this big shop is excuses and reasons why they cant fix the floor. Beyond frustrating.


To put a bow on all of this--We are sucker-customers. We thought "hey, let's buy a camper" and that's what we did. Never towed a thing in my life--no clue about these things and as somebody said previously--we thought we bought a maintenance free home on wheels. It's cost us a ton but to be honest, the memories we've made have been worth it...even with these headaches. We'll figure something with the floor--even if I just throw a sheet of plywood over the softspots...at this point, it doesn't have to look good, and we'll go make some more.

Thanks for everybody's help.
I like your attitude! Long, long time ago we had a Cabana hybrid. I think it was a 22' , had dual axles. The floor was spongy but did not show any signs of water damage. My fix was a couple boxes of prefinished hardwood flooring. I just installed over the original floor and was good for the couple of years that we had it.

[thatdjguy]

is there any reason that simply installing flooring over the current stuff is a bad idea...aside from the look?

[Ksupaul]

Thatdjguy

Last half of your last paragraph says it all. Live and learn, fix what you can do you can get back out there to the memories!!

[flybouy]

is there any reason that simply installing flooring over the current stuff is a bad idea...aside from the look?

I think the important point is not to cover mold or rot. On my Cabana back in the day that I covered over the floor spongey but was not water damaged. I guess it was poor engineering and a poor diet on my part that was the issue. :banghead: I pulled back the linoleum, inspector from the underside, and found no leaks or stains. Going over water damage and not addressing it would only work if were going to deceive some poor unsuspecting person and pass on your problems at your gain. Personally I couldn't live with myself if I did that. YMMV

[thatdjguy]

I think I'm leaning on taking up the soft part, spraying it down with bleach and water, and then covering it with plywood. My wallet needs a break! Perhaps I'll convince my pop to put a new flooring product down next spring.


Thanks everybody for speaking up and going easy on a total idiot!

[JRTJH]

Killing any mold that might be in the trailer is essential to having a relatively healthy trailer after the new floor is installed. When Katrina and Rita hit the Gulf Coast, thousands of homes were flooded. Most people found that simply spraying things with bleach would not kill the mold. It kills what it contacts, but as the bleach dissipates, the mold that wasn't in contact with the bleach will overgrow and things will be "just like before treatment" in a couple months. There are many "mold removal kits" that are much more effective and more important, permanent solutions to killing mold.

Do some research before you buy a gallon of Clorox and consider the job done. It's not that simple in a trailer where mold has started in the floor and moved up the walls. Or where it's started in the walls and moved down to rot the floor.....

It's not an impossible task, just be sure that you do your research and do it right before you cover it up.... Good Luck !!!!!

[thatdjguy]

Multiple service managers---each one having no clue about the current situation. Still no communication without a plea on facebook every 2-3 weeks.

"waiting on an awning" since May

"you're awning is in, I just don't know where it is"

"Oh, your awning was backordered...then it was on backorder so long we cancelled the order"

"Do you still want us to order the awning your bill is $3000 plus (NOT addressing the soft floor)

At this point I told them that I want all work to stop, I'm picking it up tomorrow and cutting my losses. I'll take it to a smaller independent shop. I called said shop and he said "yea, so and so quit"...

I wonder why

[cookinwitdiesel]

I have never really liked dealerships for anything, this is only reinforcing that feeling! With my trailer I have been more cavalier than normal and refuse to accept that I cannot fix most things on it.

That being said, you all have now scared the crap out of me and I going to research how to inspect and maintain roof seals lol

[thatdjguy]

HOLY CRAP

So Today I looked up the owner of the company, and found him on facebook. I also wen to their webpage and found the GM...and sent him an email. The service guy I spoke with Friday called and told me "you said we didn't contact you..we spoke Friday". to which I said "Yea. And if you recall I told you that you could do a lot to remedy the situation by simply calling me Monday like you said you would"...he didn't, of course.

Anyway--after the email sent below, long story short--they are charging me nothing but parts for the things that they have done. The waived 15 billable hours at over $100/hour.

Work that I believe they did (as in, what I've asked for but at this point, who knows): Water pump, Water heater, black tank pull handle replaced, some A/C work covered by recall...and inspecting/sealing the roof. I'll pay 800 and some change total just for the parts.

I'm still a little sour on the entire process, but I'll leave with a better taste in my mouth, and perhaps will consider them down the road if/when we purchase another. Points for the owner and G/m who admitted that they've **** the bed with this.

Here's the email I sent:

Mr. Lentz-

In May of this year I dropped my trailer off for services. It had a soft floor from an unknown leak, and some other damage from not being properly winterized. Since this time, I've had nothing but a headache with the service team. Not once have I been contacted in the five months without me having to resort to facebook pleading. Not once did I get a rundown of the problems, a quote--nothing. In fact, it sat for the first two months untouched as somebody thought that they would wait for the insurance to cal them. This was never a possibility to start with as I am the person who brought it in, and I was the person who was handling it.

More than once, a "new" service manager called to introduce himself (after yet another facebook plea) and acted shocked to hear that my coach has been on the lot for so long--only to disappear until again, I facebook message.

All in all, you guys will be replacing an awning, water pump, water heater, black handle pull valve, and some other odds and ends from this admitted novice when it comes to RV care. (speaking of awnings, just Friday I received a phone call that "it says that your awning is here, but I haven't seen it"...how nice to know that I'm such a low priority). Not trivial to be certain...but certainly not warranting such a delay and poor communication.

I'm at my whits end, and have lost all patience and confidence in your shop's ability to give me honest feedback and updates. The previous five months has negated any and all excitement that we had when we first bought the trailer some time ago. The reputation of Delmarva RV, in my opinion, stops when the sale is made as I've been told nothing, been contacted zero times without me having to plead through various channels, and simply put--understand now how mega RV stores such as yours receives such a poor reputation in some circles in terms of continued services after the sale.

I've said the same thing to no less than three "service managers" who I've been in contact with over this process: "I apologize for my attitude. I apologize for taking my frustrations out on you as I know that this has fallen into your lap unexpectedly"...however, that's no longer fair to me. I deserve communication, honesty, and to be frank, I deserve to be treated with the same respect now as I did before I signed the paper to purchase this trailer from you.

The months have passed, the payment gets withdrawn from my bank like clockwork--but my family and I have lost an entire season of enjoyment, and I've lost my damn mind.

My name is Justin *******, my phone number is ***.***.****, and my camper has been on your lot since 10AM on May 22.

Please help me.

[66joej]

Good on you thatdjguy for being persistent. I know given the circumstances I would have done the same!

[notanlines]

Justin, “perhaps will consider them down the road if/when we purchase another“ you need to stay strong and put this idea way, way back on the back burner. They are not a deserving dealer.

[thatdjguy]

I believe I concur!

[flybouy]

Agree with notanlines. I've told rv, marine, and auto dealers that their salesman sells me the first one and their service dept. sells me the second, third, etc.

[thatdjguy]

Picked up the trailer today from the dealer. As promised, I paid only for materials--$830 something in total. For that they replaced the water heater, water pump, the flange behind the toilet that was leaking, and the black pull handle for the water tank. So for that little bit of money I feel that I got a great bang for my buck...assuming all repairs are done correctly!

Took it to a private, smaller shop to get the floor taken care of and he immediately hopped on the roof. First thing off the bat...he told me that the roof and the sidewalls simply did not connect plumbly, and that it wasn't properly sealed. Being that the unit is two years old, his opinion was that this was a factory issue. Also, being two years old--not a damn thing Keystone is going to do about it.

Long story short--both the front and back laminate are completely floating. By that, they have come off the cardboard that is between the frame and the fiberglass. Again, being two years old--most def a keystone failure. The blistering on the back and front....and even the dimpling on the side of the trailer is painfully noticeable.

So, what's the fix? He is going to take off the entire back and front laminate and grind down all damage/mildew. From here, he is going to mold plywood instead of cardboard, and than secure it to the laminate and frame...eliminating any future of this problem. He's also going to take up the damaged part of the floor and sure up the footing, and than cover it back up with an attractive solution. I told him that at this point, I don't care how it looks...it just needs to perform. He assured me that he's not letting it off his lot without it looking good.

He'll also walk the roof and give the trailer a good once over.

His price? He told me between 2200-3000. I asked him if I paid $2500 on the spot would that cover it...he said "make it $2600 and I'll winterize it tomorrow" DONE!

Final take (until the next final one): The dealer seems to be made to fix minor, popular issues. They seemed handcuffed by either corporate and or insurance to not seek solutions that aren't "textbook". The second shop that I just dropped it off at had no problem getting the wheels turning. He started to tell me some of his ideas and I just told him that I trusted him...just get it done!

As for Keystone--Sure, I could have jumped on the roof and sealed the seems the day I took it home. Guess what? This guy is an idiot (me) and was a first time buyer more excited about sitting on a beach in Hatteras than I was in learning...I believe they know that, and believe they use that. The fact that I can purchase a product that is built to fail like this is horrible. Yea, I screwed up with winterizing...but the overwhelming majority of my unit's issues came because the roof and the sides of my camper were not water tight. That's a fact, and that's inexcusable!

[thatdjguy]

couple pictures. You can see on the cropped image the extent of the delam. I'll stop blowing up this thread now...hopefully I'll have some pretty fixed it pictures in 3 months or so. I told the dude no hurry--season's over.

[thatdjguy]

Some pictures today of the progression.

[chuckster57]

Looking good!!! Your getting there.

[Tbos]

It looks like they are doing a very nice job on the fixes.

[thatdjguy]

It's finally over! only been a full year! In fairness I did tell the second shop to take their time--don't need it till June)

He replaced both the front and back laminate as it got wet and became useless. Inside, he reinforced the sagging floors and covered each side of the master bedroom with matching carpet. You'll also see that the entry floor was covered with a vinyl...underneath is solid once again. He had to order new front and back laminate, new stickers and all sorts of not so fun stuff. Looks like we're sittin' pretty for a full summer--5 trips, worth of memories.

[sourdough]

It's finally over! only been a full year! In fairness I did tell the second shop to take their time--don't need it till June)

He replaced both the front and back laminate as it got wet and became useless. Inside, he reinforced the sagging floors and covered each side of the master bedroom with matching carpet. You'll also see that the entry floor was covered with a vinyl...underneath is solid once again. He had to order new front and back laminate, new stickers and all sorts of not so fun stuff. Looks like we're sittin' pretty for a full summer--5 trips, worth of memories.


Congrats!! It looks great! I'm glad it's over and you're able to use it again. Now, go have fun on those trips and enjoy that "new" camper! Have fun.

[thatdjguy]

we've got a full summer! Wash. DC, Natural Bridge VA. Niagara Falls, Ontario, Outer Banks, Baseball Hall of fame all this summer!

[JRTJH]

we've got a full summer! Wash. DC, Natural Bridge VA. Niagara Falls, Ontario, Outer Banks, Baseball Hall of fame all this summer!

Congratulations on the repair completion!!!!! It sounds like you've got a busy summer planned... Don't forget to schedule a Saturday to inspect the roof, all the seals and all the windows to make sure they're sealed too.... Now that it's "new again" don't let your maintenance schedule slip !!!!!

[chuckster57]

Looks great!!! Enjoy.

[Tbos]

Looks great. Have a great summer.

[newemptynester]

So happy for you. Looks great. Enjoy your summer, make memories.