Disk Brakes....WOW

[BSHGTO]

Went out and bought a 3791 Rear Den a few weeks ago. What a beast. After a few trips and a few hundred miles I realized the front adjusting brakes just wasn`t going to stop this thing when the lovely young female that wants to get off at the next exit decides to come out of the fast lane into mine and slams on her brakes to make the exit ( this did happen, just inches to collision and she flipped me off when I laid on the horn ). :censored: With that in mind on our last trip I decided to not to put up with crappy brakes anymore. Called Etrailer and ordered an assembly of parts for $1534.00. Five days later they were on my door step, put them on in less than a day and thru the electric brakes in the shed. Went out for a test drive and all I can say is never again will I own a big camper without disk brakes. This behemoth stops on a dime now with out lock up it can stop pronto.
I`m ready for :devil: her :devil: now.
If you do any Mods this should be at the top of the list.

[ctbruce]

Great write up. You may want to consider Chuckster57's air horn mod to add next. With it you could of knocked her finger back into its proper place!

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[Ken / Claudia]

Having pulled boat duel axle trailers mainly with drums and then the same size boat trailer with disks it is much better, never pulled a RV with disk brakes yet but, inmagine it is just as you say.

[bdaniel]

I did this a couple of years ago and have about 20,000 miles on them. I love them.

https://www.bobbystuff.com/rv/228/electic-over-hydraulic-disc-brake-conversion

[Ddubya]

Just finished mine. Can't wait to try them out.

[travelin texans]

Did mine a year ago Nov, will never own another heavy 5er without them.

[Hodgy]

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So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?


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[notanlines]

Hodgy, keep in mind that less than half the big RV owners think they have a problem. Most big ones stop "ok" just not great.

[Tinner12002]

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So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?


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Great question Hodgy! I agree that some manufacturer could get a jump on other manufacturers by at least offering disc brakes as an option on their larger RVs and that might even start a trend!! Lol!
Definitely looks like a great mod to add discs for sure!

[Ddubya]

I am sure that many owners do not realize they have a problem with their trailer brakes.
I returned home from having some warranty work done on my 2017 Alpine and discovered that three of four brakes were totally destroyed. I had checked the brakes and repacked the bearings when I purchased the unit in November of 2016 and had put about 10000 miles on it.
I had also complained to the dealer about weak breaks and they said that they were OK.
Had my wife not heard the noise from the wheels as I was backing up into my barn we would not have known.

[ctbruce]

Just a question, because I don't know. Has anybody sold a trailer with this mod? We're you able to recoup your investment? If you could, that would go a long way towards making the investment initially.

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[JRTJH]

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So . . . . why does some manufacturer not make disc brakes their standard and suck away all of the sales from the rest ?


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If you look at the posts on this forum (you don't even need to go to any of the other forums about other brands), you'll find that people "shop for price" when buying an RV. Many state they bought 1000 miles from home "because the local dealer wouldn't match a $500 difference in price". Others state, "My local dealer refused to match the price CW had on a FR brand with the same floorplan, so I'll be leaving the Keystone forum."

If (just my suspicions) the cost of drum brakes on two axles costs Keystone $200 and the wholesale price of the components for a disc brake system are $1000, then the wholesale price of the trailer would increase $800. (again, just my guesses on cost).

If that were factored into the wholesale price of the trailer, then the dealer's "retail price" would have to increase at least that much, plus his overhead/interest costs to put that extra $800 into his inventory for up to a year or more before it sells. Then, he'd have to make adjustments for "last year's model" if it didn't sell.

Based on the fact that Keystone (and all other manufacturers) count "pennies on the dollar" by buying lowest bidder parts, I wouldn't think you'll find any dealer willing to add $800 to the wholesale price of a unit they are "desperately working at keeping within $100 of Forest River's brand for the same floorplan".....

As was said previously, "Hodgy, keep in mind that less than half the big RV owners think they have a problem. Most big ones stop "ok" just not great." So why would a "new owner" pay $1000-1500 more for a trailer with disc brakes when they refuse to pay $500 more "for the same floorplan" and buy the FR trailer because it's a better deal?????

Remember, about 75% of all trailer buying is done on "color, where the sofa is, and how many windows are in the kitchen" type of decisions.... How many buyers do you know that even consider how many air conditioners or what kind of tires are on the trailer?

Would disc brakes be the "sudden shift in what's important" ??? I'd guess, people could care less what kind of brakes a trailer has, so long as the sofa is comfortable and "momma likes the stove"....

[Hodgy]

I'd guess, people could care less what kind of brakes a trailer has, so long as the sofa is comfortable and "momma likes the stove"....


Lot of truth in your post, I might add, "momma likes the big sink".

I am just hauling a little tin can behind my ½ ton but hearing the weight some of you 5ers' have, I would be looking at the discs.

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[chuckster57]

I know I’m probably the only guy with “old” stuff, but hydraulic trailer brakes require a brake controller that can work with that...I don’t. And not in the market to buy another controller since mine works fine.

[Ddubya]

I am not at all worried about resale price. I am worried about safety.
I know there are literally thousands of trailers on the road that have drum brakes but after seeing mine in pieces I could not go back with them. I have had trailers with drum brakes and had no issues but this is the first with self adjusting brakes. Not sure if that was the cause for failure but I choose not to take any more chances.

[JRTJH]

I am not at all worried about resale price. I am worried about safety.
I know there are literally thousands of trailers on the road that have drum brakes but after seeing mine in pieces I could not go back with them. I have had trailers with drum brakes and had no issues but this is the first with self adjusting brakes. Not sure if that was the cause for failure but I choose not to take any more chances.

Maybe, maybe not, but I'd suspect that the previous trailers you had were equipped with brakes manufactured by Dexter or AlKo, in the US with US manufactured materials. Since about 2000 (or around then) it seems more and more of the "quality" has disappeared from trailer brakes just like "quality" is disappearing from much of what we buy.

I know several members of this forum who "scrambled to buy" a set of Timken bearings marked USA before they're all gone. Not that they need them now, rather they don't trust the "Made in China Timken's"...

It may be that forward adjusting brakes are "crap", but with the number of units on the road without problems, I'd guess it's more a matter of Lippert importing Chinese "crap" and selling it under the "Lippert is as good as Dexter" brand...... Not to mention that Keystone buys all their "quality components" from the lowest bidder......

[chuckster57]

Most all of the failures with the forward adjusting brakes we have seen are with Lippert using the wrong grease and the grease seal failing. Lost count of how many I have replaced on Grand Design Reflections... NONE of the replacements have failed. We get all new backing plates and install a new grease seal.

[JRTJH]

I've seen a large number of reports reflecting exactly what chuckster stated. From cotter pins inserted incorrectly to bolts loose to bearings not properly greased to grease seals not installed correctly to brake pad springs not installed properly to "you name it".... Sounds to me like Lippert had (maybe still having) growing pains getting into the axle market.

Most of what they sell is manufactured in China, some is assembled in the US, but from what I understand, Keystone buys the frame from Lippert, used to install Dexter/AlKo axles on them at the first position on the assembly line, now they're installing Lippert axles on most of the "entry level/midlevel" trailer lines. Dexter/AlKo is still being installed on "SOME" (not all) of the more expensive Keystone brands. I know my Cougar axles are Lippert with Llippert brakes. I replaced them last year with Dexter brake assemblies and I've had no problems since.

As for Disc brakes, they're available for almost any trailer size/weight. My opinion is that they don't become "a good idea" until after the 10K GVW trailer weight and don't become "recommended" until after the 15K GVW trailer weight. I think they'd be "critical" after about 16 or 17K trailers are being dragged behind trucks weighing half that weight......

[Ddubya]

When I inspected my brakes a week after purchasing the trailer new there was one seal already leaking. I replaced the seal,checked all bearings ,repacked all wheels with grease and inspected the brake assemblies. All was good before the first trip.
After about 5000 miles I had the dealer look at the brakes because I was not sure they were working properly. They assured me all was good. At about 10000 miles is when all went south. When I removed the hubs parts fell out of three of four. The seals were intact and no grease had leaked out onto the backing plates. All bearings were good.
By the way there was a sticker inside the backing plates with a US flag on it.

[travelin texans]

Once you've felt the difference once you step on the brake pedal of a rv with disc brakes you'll wonder how you ever managed to stop one with drum brakes, the difference is night & day. Yes drums will stop a rv provided they are maintained, adjusted regularly, either manually or automatically & not covered in grease.
I totally agree that $$$ is the only reason they aren't standard on rvs & the reason more people dont opt to order with them.

[BSHGTO]

Just a question, because I don't know. Has anybody sold a trailer with this mod? We're you able to recoup your investment? If you could, that would go a long way towards making the investment initially.

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Recouping your investment? Not a chance. The dealer is won`t give it a second thought. :o The only way you`ll recoup investment is to do what I said in the original post. Throw the electric brakes in the shed. What was meant there was if I ever and probably will sell this camper, the disks come off and the electric brakes in the shed will go back on. I purposely left all the wiring and connections intact for that day. Very simple. A half day of work ( but I consider it fun, retired) and look at the money you have saved. Most if not all campers that really need disk brakes because of weight run a number 42 spindle on the axle so just have the disks turned put new pads on the calipers put them on your new camper and throw the electric brakes in the shed. Repeat. So 6 campers later you just might have to replace the disks considering how few miles most of us put on a unit. And this is why you use the flexible brake line kit it is adaptable to any configuration in the future. Even my old lite weight High Country had # 42 spindles. This is your return on investment.

[travelin texans]

Once the taillights of the new rv clear the driveway of the dealership you just lost 30% or more on the rv you just bought, so worrying about $1200-1500 to make it 110% safer is nothing. If you have any aspirations of recouping ANY money you spend on a rv, either purchase or mods, you are going to be VERY disappointed. Plus as I just mentioned once you've towed one with disc you'll never want drums again.

[Freeheel4life]

I totally agree that $$$ is the only reason they aren't standard on rvs & the reason more people dont opt to order with them.

So we order almost nothing but Boatmate trailers for our large wakeboats. Disc brakes are standard, but they are hydraulic actuator in trailer tongue ( push tow vehicle brakes and it stroke master cylinder built into trailer tongue). You can option torsion or leafs for suspension and from there you can add lots of little doodads to your trailer like steps at rear to board the boat, to LED laser cut logos in the fender to display manufacturer name, to front walk up stairs so you can board bow while on the trailer. Trailer alone can run 3k+, and that is the small painted wakeboat segment. The guys running large galvanized trailers for salt will spend 8-10k just on the trailer to haul the boat.
No wonder TT/5er manufacturers aren't pushing the envelope.

[Tinner12002]

The axles and brakes are Dexter on my RV and have thought the disc brake conversion would be great to do. The brakes work good and are still basically new, so for now and until monies are there, I'll have to stick with the elec drums. For the weight of mine I do think the discs are in my future plans. The problem I have is having the place to do the conversion so it might have to be a dealer installed thing which means more cost for conversion.

[ctbruce]

Thanks for the (brutally...LOL) honest replies. Great points, I'm really asking for those whose money is tight and they are trying to justify doing or not doing this conversion. Maybe it gives them enough means to pull it off.

I agree it is s great safety feature to put on. While resale on a trade in is the easy way to be rid of a unit and go to a new one, I was wondering how this would go on the open market of selling it to an individual. I sold s trailer once and will probably never do it again but something to think about.

Just put the old ones back on? You mechanically inclined guys crack me up. I put pills in bottles for kids for a living. I'm lucky to be able to change a light bulb some days. So envious of those with mad skills....

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[Rolling Along]

I know I’m probably the only guy with “old” stuff, but hydraulic trailer brakes require a brake controller that can work with that...I don’t. And not in the market to buy another controller since mine works fine.

You don’t need to buy another controller. Some controllers (such as Prodigy) send a small signal back to brakes to check for connection. Electric over hydraulic has no resistance so controller “thinks” no trailer hooked up.

The fix is simple. Take one magnet from the electric brakes and wire it into the system so controller “knows” trailer is hooked up. Has worked great for me and no extra expense. Or you can buy a fancy box made to wire in to do the exact same thing.

[chuckster57]

I will keep that in mind, thanks.

[flybouy]

You don’t need to buy another controller. Some controllers (such as Prodigy) send a small signal back to brakes to check for connection. Electric over hydraulic has no resistance so controller “thinks” no trailer hooked up.

The fix is simple. Take one magnet from the electric brakes and wire it into the system so controller “knows” trailer is hooked up. Has worked great for me and no extra expense. Or you can buy a fancy box made to wire in to do the exact same thing.
Couldn't you take an ohm reading on the brake magnet and install a resistor of that value for a couple of bucks?

[travelin texans]

Performance Trailer Braking sells Titan disc conversions & did mine on my site (along with the rvs on either side of me) last fall, they did an awesome job. In My opinion the absolute best mod done on my 5er, I can actually feel the trailer brakes slowing the truck, NEVER felt that with any trailer with drum brakes.
I totally agree any rv over 10k disc brakes should be mandatory.

[Rolling Along]

Couldn't you take an ohm reading on the brake magnet and install a resistor of that value for a couple of bucks?

Yes, possibly but what are you gonna do with the magnet you just took off? Why buy something that you already have? Your money, do what you want.

[bdaniel]

My 2014 RAM brake controller handles the disc brakes fine. But just to play around, I changed the settings to be those for traditional brakes with magnets. The controller said no trailer was attached. I then hooked a continuity tester with a small bulb across the brake line and ground. That was just enough resistance to fake out the controller. I don't remember, but I don't think the bulb even glowed unless I pull the lever to apply voltage to the brakes.

Bobby

[Don_T]

I am thinking about converting my camper to disk brakes in the near future. How do I identify the axles on my camper and what disk brake kits are people using?

I see there are several materials and coatings on the brake kits, which is preferred and why? I would guess the stainless steel would last the longest regarding corrosion but they are far more expensive. How do the other finishes hold up? Most of the parts on automotive brakes aren’t coated and they hold up reasonable well.

[travelin texans]

There's a tag on the axle, on mine at least, about the middle of the axle tube.
Contact Performance Trailering Braking , they came to me & did the install at the park we were working at, did a great job. They could answer most all your questions.
performancetrailerbraking.com