Non-commercial A license

[Aorobie]

Wish me luck...off to the California DMV for my "behind the wheel test" tomorrow. I'll update the out come later

[BigTexRex]

Good luck--remember, the main thing is NOT to hit a curb.

[Aorobie]

Rodger that!

[chuckster57]

And DONT DRIVE YOURSELF THERE.

[ADQ K9]

Question for Cali drivers... Is it required you take that test or like a Class B test if you have a Motor Coach as in a bus chassis air brakes and over 26K GVW or do they just do that for heavy trailers?:confused:

[Aorobie]

Yes sir I'll have my personal "instructor" accompany me

[Aorobie]

Yes I believe so..go to dmv.ca.gov and search recreational vehicle and trailer handbook

[chuckster57]

Question for Cali drivers... Is it required you take that test or like a Class B test if you have a Motor Coach as in a bus chassis air brakes and over 26K GVW or do they just do that for heavy trailers?:confused:

Here you go:
https://www.dmv.org/ca-california/apply-license.php#Types-of-California-Drivers-Licenses

This should clear it up :banghead:

[Aorobie]

Well backing in the docking alley was no joke could not get er done...try again in a few weeks. To be continued

[chuckster57]

Well backing in the docking alley was no joke could not get er done...try again in a few weeks. To be continued



Did they set up a couple rows of cones?

[Aorobie]

The docking alley aka "campsite" is a 90 degree turn while backing into a 12' wide spot. The street is 40' wide. With my 11'+ rear overhang to the rear most axle it is challenging. I kept knocking down the cone on my off-side (right rear corner of the trailer)

[chuckster57]

Sounds like time to find an empty parking lot. You’ll get it!

[CaptnJohn]

Could be ~~ A 250 costs less to buy and register. The 10,000 rating at 1,500 less than the 350 could eliminate the need for that license. Could be why we see so many 250 trucks pulling heavy 5ers. Could be why so many knowingly tow over PW.

[Aorobie]

Yep drove all sorts of apparatus with the LAFD held Class A for 35+ years. Embarrassing yes but not down

[CaptnJohn]

The docking alley aka "campsite" is a 90 degree turn while backing into a 12' wide spot. The street is 40' wide. With my 11'+ rear overhang to the rear most axle it is challenging. I kept knocking down the cone on my off-side (right rear corner of the trailer)

You are close, you have it next time. I know about that overhang problem~ as a tail swing it bit me once.

How many heavy RVs are backed in without a spotter?

[Tinner12002]

Ah the joys of living in CA!! All kidding aside, an empty parking lot is your best friend on this, practice, practice and more practice. When I tried to get my CDL which I never actually got because of all things I missed speaking about the bright light indicator on the truck walk around! Anyway, I saved up old milk jugs and filled them with water and set them up in a parking lot to practice backing and parallel parking with a 30ft gooseneck trailer. Had it down to a science but then the walk around tripped me up. Hindsight tells me I failed because I drove myself down there with the trailer. In my situation it was going to cost me another $100 to retake the test, nope not going to happen, decided I didn't need it that bad.

[chuckster57]

Could be ~~ A 250 costs less to buy and register. The 10,000 rating at 1,500 less than the 350 could eliminate the need for that license. Could be why we see so many 250 trucks pulling heavy 5ers. Could be why so many knowingly tow over PW.

It’s not the TV, but the GVWR of the trailer that requires the license, and yeah lots of people use a 3/4 ton truck for different reasons. I’m willing to bet a LOT of people don’t even know about the requirements, and some that do don’t care!!

[jsmith948]

Could be ~~ A 250 costs less to buy and register. The 10,000 rating at 1,500 less than the 350 could eliminate the need for that license. Could be why we see so many 250 trucks pulling heavy 5ers. Could be why so many knowingly tow over PW.

In California the need for a class A non-commercial license (in regards to pulling a non-commercial trailer) is based on the CVWR (not actual weight) of the towed vehicle. 10000# or less requires a regular class C - 10,001# to 15,000# requires a class C with an RV endorsement - 15,001# or more calls for the non-commercial class C.
The weight of the TV isn't a factor unless the GCVWR exceeds a certain amount - I think 26000#
The link provided in a previous post spells it all out.

[ctbruce]

Thank goodness campgrounds don't use cones!

But, maybe they do in California!

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[jsmith948]

Thank goodness campgrounds don't use cones!

But, maybe they do in California!

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Yeah - I agree - California is WAY messed up!!
Kansas is the "perfect" state:hide:

[ctbruce]

Yeah - I agree - California is WAY messed up!!
Kansas is the "perfect" state:hide:People in Kansas do think that. Now us folks on the MO side of the line, we just laugh at those jayhawkers. LOL

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[Ksupaul]

Yeah - I agree - California is WAY messed up!!
Kansas is the "perfect" state:hide:

My state has many many problems.

But backing through cones with a 5th wheel ain’t one of them! 😂😂

New govoner now. Already taking back the money they gave away the previous years. Who knows, maybe I will be backing through cones soon.

[Freeheel4life]

Hopefully now that the Republic of California is filling their coffers with all that highly taxed legal grass there will be no need to peel money out of your wallet for a non commercial class A.
Don't follow KS politics but if they are hurting for money maybe they should look at the tax revenue generated by CO, OR and WA in the last few years. Not saying it's the answer to budget shortfalls but it sure doesn't seem to hurt.
Regardless, good luck on the next go round Aorobie

[CWSWine]

My state has many many problems.

But backing through cones with a 5th wheel ain’t one of them! ����

New govoner now. Already taking back the money they gave away the previous years. Who knows, maybe I will be backing through cones soon.

I going thought this right now in Kansas. If you drive a RV your total GVWR is over 26,001 in Kansas you need to have a non-commercial class a or class b. If you over 26,001 and the trailer you pull is less than 10,000 pounds you need a Class B and if the GVWR is over 26,001 and your trailer is over 10,000 pounds you need a Class A. First the DMV told me that RV was exempt then after call Topeka they found that the requirement was made in 2011 requiring the non-commercial licences and RV are not exempt. I also ask how many they have issued in my town and the answer was none. The only way I found out is a guy was stopped in Wichita Kansas and his motorhome was towed.

[Ksupaul]

CWSWine, are you over the 26k? I don’t know single soul with a class B or A in kansas pulling an RV. Suppose the Toy Haulers would get there loaded. Also have never heard of a ticket or someone with an impounded RV. There is a first for everything I guess. My TT isn’t an issue, but I have kept my CDL for 25 years. Might as well keep it Incase I need to move up the food chain.

[CWSWine]

KSUPaul - Yes I'm way over now (36,400 GVWR). But even with my Montana 3711 GVWR 16,000 and my 1 Ton GMC 11,500 that would put me at 27,500 which would require a Class A non-commercial. I have not met anyone that has one and even ask a local police officer and he said that he didn't know anything about the requirement.

If you look at the back of the KS class C you will see the restriction of less than 26,001 list on the back.

[travelin texans]

KSUPaul - Yes I'm way over now (36,400 GVWR). But even with my Montana 3711 GVWR 16,000 and my 1 Ton GMC 11,500 that would put me at 27,500 which would require a Class A non-commercial. I have not met anyone that has one and even ask a local police officer and he said that he didn't know anything about the requirement.

If you look at the back of the KS class C you will see the restriction of less than 26,001 list on the back.

This same discussion has/is being cussed/discussed in Texas for a year or so. I've ask officers, DMV personnel, & read the manual, what I read is the last line "less than 26001 lbs, for personal use". My last weight was 25700+/- a couple hundred pounds, so as far as I can figure I'm good.

[CWSWine]

This same discussion has/is being cussed/discussed in Texas for a year or so. I've ask officers, DMV personnel, & read the manual, what I read is the last line "less than 26001 lbs, for personal use". My last weight was 25700+/- a couple hundred pounds, so as far as I can figure I'm good.

I don't know if Texas is the same but not how much you weight but adding the GVWR of your truck and trailer/5er together. With my Montana and 1 ton, I was only about 14,500 combine on the CAT scale but my truck GVWR was 11,500 and my 5er was 16,500 so I needed the Class A since they added up to over 26,001.

[JRTJH]

I don't know if Texas is the same but not how much you weight but adding the GVWR of your truck and trailer/5er together. With my Montana and 1 ton, I was only about 14,500 combine on the CAT scale but my truck GVWR was 11,500 and my 5er was 16,500 so I needed the Class A since they added up to over 26,001.

It's the same in most states that I've read about. It all depends on the GVW (max possible weight) not the actual weight slips. The license reflects what your rig "can do" not what it "actually does"....

[MattE303]

Which DMV did you take the test at? Any additional details you can provide about the test, walkaround, etc. would be appreciated, need to tackle this one myself sometime soon....

[dcg9381]

This same discussion has/is being cussed/discussed in Texas for a year or so.

Texas, particularly the DMV STINKS at non-commerical class-A. I escalated issues to the DMV leadership multiple times, trying to get them to issue a written statement for local DMV guidance on which written tests should be given and what should be covered in the driving test. Eventually, what I got was "it's up to the local office on what they want to do" - which completely makes no sense.

In practical terms, go to one of the very few DMVs that are used to processing non-commercial Class-A. Otherwise, you risk getting run through large portions of the commercial driving written, which I personally couldn't pass without study walking in off the street. I got run through 3 or 4 different sections of the commercial driving exam, all of which I (eventually) passed - with different offices indicating different requirements on different days. Asking individual offices to call for clarification was not helpful.

The BEST and most current place that I know of to keep track on how to do it in Texas is here:
http://www.rvnetwork.com/topic/125345-texas-class-a-or-b-license-upgrade-faqs/

It used to be that Livingston, TX was "the" place to go to take the RV test.


I've ask officers, DMV personnel, & read the manual, what I read is the last line "less than 26001 lbs, for personal use". My last weight was 25700+/- a couple hundred pounds, so as far as I can figure I'm good.

As others have said, you're incorrect here. It's GVWR - or the "heaviest" you can be. There's a sticker on your truck and a sticker on your trailer. If those add up to 26001 lbs or more, you need a Class-A license. They don't have to weigh you to ticket you, they can just look at the stickers and do the math.


I feel that it's worth mentioning a few things:

I know of absolutely no one stopped in Texas that has ever been ticketed for not having a non-CDL class-A. Not one. I'm not all knowing, however. But the DPS office can't keep it straight, DPS home office can't keep it straight, I'm not terribly worried about it with individual officers.
I DO know of people that have problems once they have this license. Jurisdictions do NOT understand "non-commercial" and I know of people who have been refused the right to defensive driving after driving offenses. Getting it resolved often requires help from the DPS, good luck... IE - you may be treated like a commercial driver, which is not advantageous.
Personally, I think the lack of this license only becomes an issue when there is an accident an a very good attorney gets involved -one capable of recognizing the need for the non-commercial-Class-A and your lack of having it. I've never heard of being denied coverage - in fact, insurers ask if you have a "valid license" not "a valid Class-A non-CDL" - so I'm not sure if there is a risk of denying liability coverage, but again, I've never heard of it. It would certainly look bad if you had an accident, got sued, and were not licensed to drive your rig - but I think that liability first falls on your insurance policy.
With a TX license, other states grant reciprocity - that is, if you're legal in Texas, you're legal in Oklahoma, etc... And since the DPS troopers in Texas can't keep it straight, it'd be hard for an OK officer to have that knowledge. A ticket could be issued "defacto" and you'd need to defend it, but again, I haven't heard of that ever happening.
CA seems to be the state where this is a real issue and they check - if you're a CA resident. They won't know what the rules are in Texas.
Once you have one of these, you can drive pretty much anything as long as you're not being paid. 16 ton military truck? Legal. Fire truck? Legal. Semi, with little to no experience? Legal.... I'm not saying it's smart, but it's legal.

[Aorobie]

I took my test in Lancaster ca. First off this is a full-on commercial A/non-commercial A test and has no changes in regards to an r.v. The pre-trip inspection you are expected to touch and explain every aspect of the tow vehicle starting under the hood to the hitch and everything in between same with the trailer. The skills test is not exactly the same as written in the DMV RV handbook. 100' straight 100' in reverse..off set alley in reverse...90degree 12' wide alley dock in reverse. I never made the "drive" portion of the test but did a little scouting to become familiar with the course.

[B7wildfire]

At this time NJ does not require any special license for RV's. I do have a Class A CDL but cant understand why you would have to test on something you will never drive. Seems like most states have no idea what a CDL is for in the first place. If I'm not mistaken the "C" in CDL stands for commercial.

[CWSWine]

At this time NJ does not require any special license for RV's. I do have a Class A CDL but cant understand why you would have to test on something you will never drive. Seems like most states have no idea what a CDL is for in the first place. If I'm not mistaken the "C" in CDL stands for commercial.

I don't know of any states that requires a CDL for a RV used only for personnel use. Now there are states that require a NON-Commercial Class A or B for operating a RV for personnel use with weights over 26,001 pounds.

[B7wildfire]

I guess what I mean the post stated they had to endure an actual Class A test. Why? Towing an 80000 lb vehicle is not the same as an RV. Just sayin

[Aorobie]

The my thought here in Ca. Is yes it's an RV over 16,000 lbs for personal use so a non-commercial A is required...What the DMV should really think about is making a change and attach an RV endorsement with it. That way I'm only able to legally operate an RV not an 80,000lb semi or any other vehicle over 16,000lb "for personal use"
While I'm on my soapbox the "for personal use" provision is becoming a gray area with the state. Show horse trailers, race car trailers, RV toters with double stacked trailer and such over 16,000lbs are under the radar. A lot of these trailers may have sponsors ads placed on them and there may be prize money involved at their destination so even though the driver may not be for "hire" their on the road to ultimately make money at an event. Anyhow I'm sure our "brain trust" in Sacramento will come up with another layer of b.s. All for the all mighty dollar. I'm stepping off my box now

[dcg9381]

I guess what I mean the post stated they had to endure an actual Class A test. Why? Towing an 80000 lb vehicle is not the same as an RV. Just sayin

Because the license allows you to drive an 80k vehicle with airbrakes, at least in Texas. The fact that there is no "RV" designation (not in my state) seems to be oddball. Basically states haven't adapted to the weights and tow capacities of RVs and non-commerical 1-ton trucks that have shown up in the last 15 years or so...

I hate to say it, but it sounds like California has this figured out a bit better than other states...

[Aorobie]

Your correct. In California the only difference between a commercial A and the non-commercial A is the written tests (depends on how many endorsements tank, haz-mat, etc.) and medical exam every 2yrs for a commercial A license. Of course now the commercial A driver is subject to a higher bar with log books, rest periods, mandatory weigh stations, etc. on the other hand a non-commercial A is one written test, and a "check the boxes" medical questionnaire. Then after a passing the behind the wheel examinations you are free to dive anything you want as long as your operating as Personal use only.

[ctbruce]

I'm speaking from my opinion only, so don't shoot the messenger. LOL

Since this state run system is so convoluted and varied. I can see the day coming, in conjunction with maintaining the federal interstate highway system, for federal standards to be set. Adapting the state's system to this federal system will be driven by receipt of federal highway dollars on road ptojects. Probably won't nobody going to be happy with this, but at least we'll all be the same towing-wise wherever we live, register our vehicles, or drive.

Like I said, just my opinion. YMMV.

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[JRTJH]

The first step toward a "federally managed system" is already in place. It's called reciprocity. The federal government mandates that all states recognize each others driver's license, state registration and titles for motor vehicle operation. They are in the process of doing that with other items, such as gun ownership and possession laws.

It would be great, from an operator viewpoint, if the requirements were the same in every state, but once the feds take over management, my concern would be the ability to keep the program from growing so large that nobody understands it or has any ability to change it..... Yeah, I know, sort of like it is now at the state level...... Hmmmmm:whistling:

[CaptnJohn]

I know of no one pulling alone. When taking the test for an rv you should be permitted your spotter.


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[Jonas]

Just replace your GVWR stickers with lighter versions. problem solved! :bdance:

[CaptnJohn]

Just replace your GVWR stickers with lighter versions. problem solved! :bdance:



300# on either sticker would work for me. Get the printer fired up.


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[MattE303]

Just replace your GVWR stickers with lighter versions. problem solved! :bdance:

LOL! I've thought about it! Probably work if you got pulled over, but definitely not if an insurance company was involved!

[CaptnJohn]

LOL! I've thought about it! Probably work if you got pulled over, but definitely not if an insurance company was involved!



I have over 3400# cargo capacity with the Montana. My wife and I have not even used half. Could trade the F350 for an F250 and that would work by dropping the truck from 11,500 to 10,000 gvwr. Now I'm 200# over. Just not going to worry about it. That 90 backup without my spotter would take luck. Now, if I could use a semi trailer it is easier.


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[MattE303]

I have over 3400# cargo capacity with the Montana. My wife and I have not even used half. Could trade the F350 for an F250 and that would work by dropping the truck from 11,500 to 10,000 gvwr. Now I'm 200# over. Just not going to worry about it. That 90 backup without my spotter would take luck. Now, if I could use a semi trailer it is easier.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm in a similar situation, our toy hauler has a ridiculous cargo capacity; GVWR is 16,755, but fully loaded and ready to go we're right around 14,000lbs. Wish I could 'derate' the GVWR to 15,000; I wouldn't need a Class A license and still have plenty of room to spare.

[CaptnJohn]

I'm in a similar situation, our toy hauler has a ridiculous cargo capacity; GVWR is 16,755, but fully loaded and ready to go we're right around 14,000lbs. Wish I could 'derate' the GVWR to 15,000; I wouldn't need a Class A license and still have plenty of room to spare.

Don't know if Keystone thinks we haul bags of concrete or what. Even with all the storage space I have no idea where anyone could put 3400# of stuff!

[dcg9381]

800 lbs of water, a few quads and motorcycles... at that's 2000 lbs, plus whatever living gear you've got.

[JRTJH]

My Cougar XLite 27RKS has a cargo capacity of 2864 and it's only 31' long with a GVW of 10,000 lbs. We usually run a trailer weight of around 9000 pounds. That's putting about 1864 pounds of cargo plus a full fresh water capacity in the trailer. Some of our return trips from dry camping with full tanks (28+56 gallons) <we have small tanks> puts that potential cargo weight around 2500-2600 if we leave camp with a full fresh water tank along with full holding tanks....

Who would think that you can actually put 2600 pounds in a 31' fifth wheel?

[CaptnJohn]

800 lbs of water, a few quads and motorcycles... at that's 2000 lbs, plus whatever living gear you've got.



The 370BR is not a TH, just built for 2. No way we can stuff over 3400# of stuff even when we snowbird for 2-3 months.


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[Pmedic4]

In my state, Illinois, they also have the requirement for a non-CDL Class A or non-CDL Class B for RV's. Not surprisingly, there are quite a few people here who don't get the proper classification of license, because they simply read, RV's are exempt. But that's a separate topic.

Now, what a lot of people don't understand is, the requirement is based on the GVWR and CGVWR of their Tow Vehicle. JRTJH points this out, but people tend to miss-apply the critical factor of the RATING, not the actual weight of your TV and RV.

Likely if you have a Ford or RAM 1 ton dually (for good or bad, the Chevy/GMC models don't seem to have a rating over 26,001?), the CGVWR is over 26,001 pounds. For example, the current FORD 350 duallies are rated at 30,000+, and the RAM 3500 duallies are rated at 30,000+. Technically, if your trailer, regular or fifthwheel are rated above 10,000, yes in Illinois you would need a non-CDL Class A, and if you don't pull a trailer that heavy, they at minimum you'd need a non-CDL Class B.

So the point is, don't fret about the CAT Scales, you can simply look in a Towing guide about your truck, and it will tell you the GCVWR, and from that you would know what license you are required to have - most can do it by applying your VIN number.

So, do people do it, yes, I have full-timer relatives that drive a 40,000 pound motorhome with a Class D license (they don't tow over 10,000 pounds), which in Illinois is limited to GVWR of 8,000 pounds. I sure hope they don't have an accident. I'd hate to think what their insurance company would do if their Tiffin Motorhome was totaled.

[Aorobie]

Quick update...I passed and a happy camper

[liv42day777]

My thoughts are that with the growth of the RV industry and more people towing or driving RV's you will see more accidents happening. With more accidents you see more and more TV and MH grossly overloaded which starts to draw attention by various states and along with valid complaints from the trucking industry on why they are being held to a higher standard while the states turn a blind eye to the RV industry. Most regulations are written in blood which is typically caused by a few and then we all have to live with them. It's apparent that we cannot police ourselves, so eventually the government will.

[JRTJH]

My thoughts are that with the growth of the RV industry and more people towing or driving RV's you will see more accidents happening. With more accidents you see more and more TV and MH grossly overloaded which starts to draw attention by various states and along with valid complaints from the trucking industry on why they are being held to a higher standard while the states turn a blind eye to the RV industry. Most regulations are written in blood which is typically caused by a few and then we all have to live with them. It's apparent that we cannot police ourselves, so eventually the government will.

Well said. Add the immediate "cash cow" that states will get by weighing (and issuing citations) to improperly licensed drivers/overweight RV's/under-rated TV's and you have the "instant gratification" to justify implementing enforcement of weight/operator license requirements. With the increased fuel efficiency of today's vehicles, the "tax based on gallons sold" system of paying for road maintenance is ineffective. Until another system is developed, augmenting the road funds from the pockets of heavy, improperly licensed RV'ers is one way to enrich the kitty.... Once state "revenuers" realize that, it's only a matter of time......