Goodyear HMG 2020

[SummitPond]

I was helping my brother move a boat in his yard today (you know how it is when you have a truck ...) and I was looking at his tires. He had Goodyear HMG 2020 ST 205/75D14, load rating D (2040 pounds at 65 psi). Upon closer inspection they were made in India and had "Property of U-Haul Not For Sale" stamped on them. A little (darned little) web research informed me they were used on U-Haul trailers and rated at 62 MPH max. Prices were hard to find; only one site listed them at $59.97 - everyone else I saw wanted you to contact them.

What impressed me was that the the tires are almost 10 years old (date code 2508) and the trailer had been sitting with a heavy wooden sailboat sitting on it for at least 5 years on a concrete pad; there was basically no air pressure in the tires, yet they looked almost like they were at pressure (see photo).

These tires are the same size and have the same rating as my Carlisles, although they are D (diagonal bias) rather than R (radial) - and I'm not sure what this implies or means.

Not that I need tires at present, but I'm interested in any experience with these - they're supposed to be "bulletproof" according to what I read on the web. They might be an alternate choice when the time comes.

[JRTJH]

Those are bias ply nylon cord tires. I'd guess that the nylon dry rotted several years ago. They may hold air and they may be OK moving a boat around in the back yard, but if you get them out on the highway, they'll probably self destruct within the first 100 miles (if they make it past the acceleration lane getting onto the freeway)......

Most tire websites have very good comparisons of bias ply and radial tire construction and give suggestions for when to use each. Tire Rack has some very good info available on their website.

[SummitPond]

John

... I'd guess that the nylon dry rotted several years ago. ...

Yes, I concur. Due to their age I figured they'd have suffered extensive UV cracking as well as other issues; I was surprised they held air after pumping them up. But even more so, that they supported the weight of the boat without showing any sidewall deflection with no air pressure in them at all.

... Most tire websites have very good comparisons of bias ply and radial tire construction and give suggestions for when to use each. Tire Rack has some very good info available on their website.

Wow! Lots of info. I've got my web reading cut out for me. Thanks for pointing me in that direction; my web search did not turn that link up.

I hope I didn't give the impression I was going to use my brother's tires - not the intent. I was wondering if that brand/model would be a viable alternative to Carlisle or Maxxxis or the new GY that has been recently introduced.

Thanks again.

Ken

[wiredgeorge]

Interesting... looked up Goodyear and they do make a USA made Endurance trailer tire that fits my 5ver. Never hear ANY discussion of this tire. It is a bit more expensive than Carlisle radial HT but about the same as Maxxis tires.

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/endurance?addr=Mico%2C+TX+78056%2C+USA&zip=78056&lat=29.5074919&lng=-98.9907938&cta=undefined

[Tinner12002]

Interesting... looked up Goodyear and they do make a USA made Endurance trailer tire that fits my 5ver. Never hear ANY discussion of this tire. It is a bit more expensive than Carlisle radial HT but about the same as Maxxis tires.

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/endurance?addr=Mico%2C+TX+78056%2C+USA&zip=78056&lat=29.5074919&lng=-98.9907938&cta=undefined

The Goodyear Endurance tires have been discussed quite a bit on this forum. Nobody has any bad things to say, all good so far but jury I believe is still out for long term because they haven't been out too awful long.

[JRTJH]

wiredgeorge,

As Tinner stated, the Goodyear Endurance is a relatively new tire in their lineup and is manufactured in the US (per factory statements). Goodyear does not indicate where the components are manufactured so the Endurance may be a "US tire manufactured in the US" or it may be "Chinese tire components assembled and smelted in the US".... In either situation, the tire was introduced last year, I believe in the April-May time frame, so there is not much "history" on the Endurance line of tires. There are several threads on this forum and even more on other RV forums that discuss the tire line. None of the information I've seen is derogatory, but with only a 1 year history, there is not a lot of "user experience" on which to draw conclusions.

Hopefully, in the coming years, we'll have a growing base of experience on which to rely. With that information, the Endurance may prove to be worth double the price of Carlisle or it may prove to be no more reliable at twice the price. Who knows how it will turn out. I'm hoping it will prove to be the beginning of Goodyear's return to the RV market and that it is a great alternative to the Goodyear Marathon......

[srvnt]

Why is the same size GY Endurance 5 pounds heavier than the Carlsile?

[JRTJH]

Why is the same size GY Endurance 5 pounds heavier than the Carlsile?

The specs I find show that in the 225 75R15 LRE size, the Endurance weighs 34 pounds and the Radial Trail HD weighs 35.2 pounds. Did you find specs somewhere else that are different?

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Endurance&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=075NR4END&tab=Specs

http://www.jegs.com/i/Cragar/260/6H04621/10002/-1

[CWtheMan]

The specs I find show that in the 225 75R15 LRE size, the Endurance weighs 34 pounds and the Radial Trail HD weighs 35.2 pounds. Did you find specs somewhere else that are different?

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Endurance&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=075NR4END&tab=Specs

http://www.jegs.com/i/Cragar/260/6H04621/10002/-1

I guess it depends on where one looks. Discount tire has the Carlisle at 31#.
The Endurance has sidewall scuff guards causing them to be a little heavier and more durable when running them into curbs.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/carlisle-radial-trail-rh/p/10406

[JRTJH]

I guess it depends on where one looks. Discount tire has the Carlisle at 31#.
The Endurance has sidewall scuff guards causing them to be a little heavier and more durable when running them into curbs.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/carlisle-radial-trail-rh/p/10406

The link you post is NOT for a 225 75R15 LRE tire, it is for a Radial Trail RH (not HD) and for a 8 ply tire (LRD) not a 10 ply tire. Not the same number of plies and not the same weight expectation.

As a note, Discount tire does list the Radial Trail HD LRE tire weight as 30 pounds, that's 1 pound lighter than the 8 ply tire... I'd suspect there's a problem with their weight data, wouldn't you? https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/carlisle-radial-trail-hd/p/26157

[srvnt]

In my size there is a 2 pound difference between the 2.

https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/carlisle-radial-trail-hd/p/27208

https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/goodyear-endurance/p/32600

My first comparison mistakenly was a load D vs. a load C tire which was 5 pounds difference. With both tires a load D tire the Endurance is still 2 pounds heavier.

[JRTJH]

In my size there is a 2 pound difference between the 2.

https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/carlisle-radial-trail-hd/p/27208

https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/goodyear-endurance/p/32600

My first comparison mistakenly was a load D vs. a load C tire which was 5 pounds difference. With both tires a load D tire the Endurance is still 2 pounds heavier.

So there's not the significant difference you first thought. Couple that with the comment from CWtheMan: "The Endurance has sidewall scuff guards causing them to be a little heavier and more durable when running them into curbs." and it looks more like the tires are very similar in weight. Given the information about "sidewall scuff guards" being the only significant difference and considering the article posted last night concerning the allegations about Goodyear's actions with problems in their motorhome tire line and the long negative history with the Marathon trailer tire line, it becomes important for each person who is shopping for tires to consider whether the weight difference is important enough to purchase a "new, unproven tire" from Goodyear. Also, if you noticed, both (Endurance and Radial Trail) are rated in the "BEST" category by Discount tire. They aren't so "kind" with their ratings for other ST tires. So apparently, they consider them "equals in quality" ??? Seems that way from their ratings.

This might sound "petty" but did you notice that the tread depth on the Carlisle is 9/32" and the tread depth on the Endurance is 8/32"? I wonder why the part of the tire that actually "meets the road" is thinner in the Endurance? Not that it makes a lot of difference, but it looks like there are some construction differences beyond the scuff guards that Goodyear added. I'd ask why the tire has those and thinner tread layers and the Carlisle doesn't?

As an example of weight vs tire quality, in the LT275 70R18 (truck tire) size, the Atturo is rated as "good" with a 45000 mile warranty (weighs 60 pounds) and the Michelin LTX M/S2 is rated "best" with a 70000 mile warranty and only weighs 52 pounds. It looks like "tire weight" isn't important in rating the "better of the two" in that example:
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/atturo-trail-blade-x-t/p/35479
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/michelin-ltx-m-s2/p/35444


Your money, your choice what you buy and my money, my choice to follow your lead or make a different decision. For me, I'll steer clear of Goodyear products just like I steer clear of Yugo and their "people's car"....

[CWtheMan]

So there's not the significant difference you first thought. Couple that with the comment from CWtheMan: "The Endurance has sidewall scuff guards causing them to be a little heavier and more durable when running them into curbs." and it looks more like the tires are very similar in weight. Given the information about "sidewall scuff guards" being the only significant difference and considering the article posted last night concerning the allegations about Goodyear's actions with problems in their motorhome tire line and the long negative history with the Marathon trailer tire line, it becomes important for each person who is shopping for tires to consider whether the weight difference is important enough to purchase a "new, unproven tire" from Goodyear. Also, if you noticed, both (Endurance and Radial Trail) are rated in the "BEST" category by Discount tire. They aren't so "kind" with their ratings for other ST tires. So apparently, they consider them "equals in quality" ??? Seems that way from their ratings.

This might sound "petty" but did you notice that the tread depth on the Carlisle is 9/32" and the tread depth on the Endurance is 8/32"? I wonder why the part of the tire that actually "meets the road" is thinner in the Endurance? Not that it makes a lot of difference, but it looks like there are some construction differences beyond the scuff guards that Goodyear added. I'd ask why the tire has those and thinner tread layers and the Carlisle doesn't?

GY is probably using a much more dense tread compound to allow the shallow tread to be used. They do everything they can to help keep the tire temp down.

As an example of weight vs tire quality, in the LT275 70R18 (truck tire) size, the Atturo is rated as "good" with a 45000 mile warranty (weighs 60 pounds) and the Michelin LTX M/S2 is rated "best" with a 70000 mile warranty and only weighs 52 pounds. It looks like "tire weight" isn't important in rating the "better of the two" in that example:
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/atturo-trail-blade-x-t/p/35479
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/michelin-ltx-m-s2/p/35444


Your money, your choice what you buy and my money, my choice to follow your lead or make a different decision. For me, I'll steer clear of Goodyear products just like I steer clear of Yugo and their "people's car"....

A number of years ago I had a GY Kevlar tire on my truck fail - see pix in ref below. The GY dealer I took it to for replacement said it was caused from a curb strike. I said prove it or I'll send it to NHTSA. During their investigation a piece of a cigarette filter was found between the carcass & sidewall. It had been missed during the X-Ray inspection. Errors are made. It took this one 22,000 miles to show-up. (I got a free replacement).

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=18103

[srvnt]

So there's not the significant difference you first thought. Couple that with the comment from CWtheMan: "The Endurance has sidewall scuff guards causing them to be a little heavier and more durable when running them into curbs." and it looks more like the tires are very similar in weight. Given the information about "sidewall scuff guards" being the only significant difference and considering the article posted last night concerning the allegations about Goodyear's actions with problems in their motorhome tire line and the long negative history with the Marathon trailer tire line, it becomes important for each person who is shopping for tires to consider whether the weight difference is important enough to purchase a "new, unproven tire" from Goodyear. Also, if you noticed, both (Endurance and Radial Trail) are rated in the "BEST" category by Discount tire. They aren't so "kind" with their ratings for other ST tires. So apparently, they consider them "equals in quality" ??? Seems that way from their ratings.



This might sound "petty" but did you notice that the tread depth on the Carlisle is 9/32" and the tread depth on the Endurance is 8/32"? I wonder why the part of the tire that actually "meets the road" is thinner in the Endurance? Not that it makes a lot of difference, but it looks like there are some construction differences beyond the scuff guards that Goodyear added. I'd ask why the tire has those and thinner tread layers and the Carlisle doesn't?

As an example of weight vs tire quality, in the LT275 70R18 (truck tire) size, the Atturo is rated as "good" with a 45000 mile warranty (weighs 60 pounds) and the Michelin LTX M/S2 is rated "best" with a 70000 mile warranty and only weighs 52 pounds. It looks like "tire weight" isn't important in rating the "better of the two" in that example:
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/atturo-trail-blade-x-t/p/35479
https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/michelin-ltx-m-s2/p/35444


Your money, your choice what you buy and my money, my choice to follow your lead or make a different decision. For me, I'll steer clear of Goodyear products just like I steer clear of Yugo and their "people's car"....

Sidewall scuff guard: I have cringed a few times looking in my rear view mirror "scuffing" tires (lightly at very slow speeds) on a curb sometimes it's just seems unavoidable. This scuff guard seems to work well as I incurred no visible damage on these occasions. Obviously a good place for 2 pounds of extra protection.

Not the only "significant difference" as it is also made in the USA, the biggest plus for me for lots of reasons, after several Chins bomb blowouts.

I did notice the "1/32" difference, which I might consider on a passenger type vehicle where tread wear is a concerned. I have never worn down a trailer ST tire tread even remotely thin.

My question was why (and where too I guess) they are heavier. It cant be a bad thing.

[JRTJH]

...My question was why (and where too I guess) they are heavier. It cant be a bad thing.

And at the same time, heavier "off brand" Atturo LT tires are not as good as the lighter Michelin tires.... Sort of "double-speak" to say ST tires are better if they're heavier and LT tires are better even though they're lighter.... Hmmmm

I'll make you a deal: You buy what you think is best and I'll buy what I think is best and let's just agree to disagree on whether Endurance or Carlisle is the best value.....

[srvnt]

And at the same time, heavier "off brand" Atturo LT tires are not as good as the lighter Michelin tires.... Sort of "double-speak" to say ST tires are better if they're heavier and LT tires are better even though they're lighter.... Hmmmm

I'll make you a deal: You buy what you think is best and I'll buy what I think is best and let's just agree to disagree on whether Endurance or Carlisle is the best value.....

I'm not a tire expert, hence I was asking a question, not saying tires are better if they're heavier or lighter, but it seems that more material would drive a price point higher, improve quality and durability. A million tires adds up to 2 million pounds extra material, so why would they do that if it wasn't better is kind of odd to me. To compare off brands to major name brands is like apples to oranges. I'm not a salesman either, just love these new Endurance tires and hope they continue to work great. And we don't a need to make a deal, buy whatever you want, its a free country. :)
I think the Carlisle's are a good option but the Endurance's extra features and being made in the USA swayed me despite the short history info.

[MerlinB]

After reading that article about Goodyear's multi-year legal battle to hide the facts and evidence about their poor performing tires, I will never, ever purchase another Goodyear tire. I don't care where they are made. I'm not buying them. Ever.

[srvnt]

After reading that article about Goodyear's multi-year legal battle to hide the facts and evidence about their poor performing tires, I will never, ever purchase another Goodyear tire. I don't care where they are made. I'm not buying them. Ever.

Two sides to every story, this tragic one with tons of lawyers on both sides. Age, application, and air pressure of tires plays a huge role in tire safety. Not at all defending either side or I might as well boycott every company.

Car, plane, boat and RV manufactures, all kinds of products (like fire extinguishers) seem to have recalls or defects.

[sourdough]

Here's kinda where I am with the Goodyear tires.

For many, many years they were the only tires I would buy (except the OEMs that came on my new vehicles). I used to swear by them. Even had Marathons decades ago. Even had a Goodyear test track over by San Angelo, TX as I recall that I used to go by every now and again.

Then, maybe around mid/late 90s?, I started having issues with the new tires I bought. I bought ATs for my trucks and SUVs. Wouldn't wear even (yes, I balance and rotate religiously), wouldn't balance worth a flip, etc. It happened repeatedly. I finally determined that something had changed; either in the manufacturing process, QC, compounds....something. I stopped buying them and haven't bought another one. Went to BFG. Had pretty good luck but they are rough and noisy plus don't wear well in some configurations. Finally landed on Michelin the last few years and that's where I'm at and very happy I might say. I've owned lots of other brands as well but I now consider a Goodyear a lower tier tire in anything-JMO.