3.55 vs 4.10

[Bebo]

Question....looking at new truck....currently f250 crewcab, 3.55, 4wd, short bed. New vehicle looking at 2017 f350 dually longbed, 4.10 gearing....much larger payload for my 355RK 5er. Both trucks 6.7 diesel. Question is what should I expect with different gearing. Changing vehicles due to being way way over weight....was ill informed when bought rig, salesman said had plenty of truck with 250.....different topic. Thanks

[first time 5er]

where you live 4.10 is the way to go. Fuel mileage will be lower but you'll feel the difference going up the mountains. I have the same truck. no complaints here

[Bebo]

I currently average about 16 to 17 combined driving....not towing and about 19 hwy unloaded...with 5er attached with 250 average about 9.5....should I anticipate big differences or small amt ya think....making the change, just want realistic ideas....i hate salesmen....they will tell ya anything

[rhagfo]

Depends on what you are towing. 12,000# to about 15,000# 3.55 with a six speed auto will do fine. If heavier than 15,000# get the 4.10’s.

[Bebo]

Would say am below 15....never taken to scales..need to do that

[sourdough]

With a 4.10 expect a lot "livelier" truck; ie; quicker acceleration, better towing. On the other hand, expect higher rpm's when driving a specific speed and the ensuing lower mileage. Pulling a large load with a 3.55 puts a lot of load on the engine and makes mileage decline. The 4.10 on the other hand makes the work easier on the engine with a heavy load so would hopefully either give you a gain or at least be as good as the 3.55. I've not had the 4.10 and 3.55 in the same truck. I have had the 3.55, 3.92 and 3.73 in the same truck and all got better than the 3.55 under load.

[JRTJH]

Here are the 2017 Ford specs,
DRW 3.55 GCWR 36,000 - - 4x2 28,400, 4x4 27,900
DRW 4.10 GCWR 40,000 - - 4x2 32,000, 4x4 31,900

Your trailer has a GVW of 15,000 pounds, you'll never be close to either the GCWR or the max trailer rating. If you're looking at the "conventional dually" then the 3.55 will serve you well and save you some money in operating expense. With the power developed by the 6.7 diesel engine, you'll likely never get into a situation where you'd downshift below 5th gear towing up any hill on the interstate system. People tow with the 3.55 with trailers in your weight range all the time and I'd never heard anyone complain of wanting more power or better gearing.

The 3.55 gearing puts the engine RPM in the "sweet spot" (1800 RPM) at 66 MPH, the "ideal towing speed" for interstate travel. The 4.10 gearing puts the engine RPM at 2100 RPM at 65 MPH, somewhat more noise for the same speed.

If you're looking at the "max tow package" dually, then it only comes with the 4.30 gear ratio and would be "overkill" for your weight trailer.

[Bebo]

Came across TV that I like, has lots of features I like....including price....just happened to notice difference in gears....and not sure of what all differences to expect...i do appreciate the feedback....gonna pose question to dealer about finding similar TV with 3.55....unless I am wrong seem like way to go....but....always potential to upgrade to toyhauler in 5 to 7 years when grandkids are a possibility....that makes me think 4.10 maybe way to go for potentially heavier loads....hmmmm

[JRTJH]

If I read the specs from Ford correctly, both the 4x2 and the 4x4 dually diesel models are limited by the frame attachment points to fifth wheel hitches with a maximum of 27,500, so all of the trailer weights above that are "fluff to beat GM and RAM".... I wouldn't want a truck with 4.10 gearing and the diesel. It sounds louder than running my existing truck in 5th gear at 70MPH. I wouldn't want to listen to that noise all the time just so I could cruise at 65-70 MPH.

But, they do make that gear ratio because some people prefer it. Difficult choice, if you're looking at a 25K trailer in the future, but a pretty clear choice for your existing trailer at 15K. Decisions, decisions, decisions..... Let us know which one you buy. They all smell so good when they're new ROFL.

[fourfourto]

:popcorn:I have 4.56 gearing in the H3
I only have a 5 cyl and 4500 lbs towing does the job pulling the 1750rd

[sourdough]

:popcorn:I have 4.56 gearing in the H3
I only have a 5 cyl and 4500 lbs towing does the job pulling the 1750rd


Ohhhhh boy. :popcorn: Having owned that vehicle for a few years I can only say I limited my grocery buying to 2 bags for fear that I couldn't get across an intersection before the light changed :eek:. Now the Alpha 3 was a different story. I will say that it was one of the most capable 4 wheel drives I've owned. It was a little large and boxy but I loved the 4 wheel drive system. It was a joy riding many of the passes around Ouray/Telluride, CO. :hide:

[Bebo]

Again, main reason for upgrade is I am way over weight payload/cargo wise with current TV....it pulls my 5er like a champ....but my king pin is 2865#, trying to correct an error and be safe......i am not well versed on gearing, I can read what the brochures say about overall pulling capabilities. Looked at crewcab dually diesel silverados...love the truck but with diesel payload wise I am limited to around 4600 to 4800 for what can find in western NC....by time add additional fuel tank since they only come with 35/36 gallon tank, add myself, spouse, fur kid, and supplies I would be within a few hundred pounds of maxing out truck payload....not towing capacity....i will never max that part out on a 3500 series dually.... don't know what to expect....if anything ....from gear change from current 3.55 with a 2014 F250 SRW and change to 2017 F350 dually both with 6.7 PowerStroke 4x4. Dang trucks are outrageously expensive, want to get it right and be smart about it...next truck needs to be in the fleet for at least 10 years or more. Appreciate everyone's input....will be having dealer look for one with 3.55 as well....and compare some more.

[Bebo]

btw.....payload on new TV am considering is 6540....more than adequate for my needs, no worry about running over weight for my 5er, thus the additional appeal. And as was pointed.out, 5th wheel tow capacity of 27,500...

[JRTJH]

Bebo,

Hopefully Javi will chime in before long. He owned a diesel F205 and upgraded to a F350 dually diesel in 2015. Granted the 2017 is a bit different (lighter overall with more HP/torque) so it would be more capable than his 2015. I don't know which gear ratio he has, but he's towing a 12-13K trailer, so he can tell you from experience the differences in towing capability between the F250 and the F350 dually. I think that's your biggest question at this point, if I understand your posts.... He'll be able to give you some "sage" advice.....

[Bebo]

Yep....been looking for sound opinions of experience from the usual suspects.....if fuel economy isn't that much different and can't find a similar TV with 3.55 will probably go with it. My current 250 rolling down the highway under load has minimal noise....and I go at safe speeds....not in a hurry.....just trying to do it the right way, being safe and smarter....as I have seen said in various ways....because it can pull it does not mean ya should pull it....

[travelin texans]

Just to clarify, any of the big 3 trucks are good choices. As example, my '13 GMC with Duramax/Allison with 373 gears has plenty of power, great acceleration, & towing my 16.5k 5er the sweet spot is 1700 rpm/68 mph making 8.5-11.5 mpg depending on terrain/wind & 15-18 mpg empty & the newer models have more hp & torque.

[larry337]

Either rear axle will work. I have 3.55 in a 17 f350 and I average 9.5-10 pulling 12k @ 70mph. A 4.10 would probaly cost you 1mpg from what I have read. I have plenty of power and rarely drop to 4th gear. 3.55 drw is rated to 27500. The 3.55 is awesome but no doubt the 4.10 is better. Just depends on whether you value mpg or performance. Leftover 17 may not leave you an option. You don't know what you don't know so you're likely to love either one you end up with. My first choice would probaly be 3.55 but I'd buy the 4.10 if that's all they had. And IMHO a 4.10 would have more resale appeal, not necessarily a higher price but more in demand and a quicker sale.

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[Tinner12002]

I currently average about 16 to 17 combined driving....not towing and about 19 hwy unloaded...with 5er attached with 250 average about 9.5....should I anticipate big differences or small amt ya think....making the change, just want realistic ideas....i hate salesmen....they will tell ya anything

Nope, that's pretty close to where I'm at across the board with truck in sig running 4.10s. I can actually get around 21 running empty at 55mph. Not sure the 3.55 is even available in a DRW, even if it was, not one I would want! Lower gears like 4.10s are going to make your equipment last longer and will keep your RPMs a little higher so your not lugging going down the road, your mileage will be negligible in my opinion.

[jsmith948]

I usually stay away from discussions regarding gearing - but - FWIW - gas rigs and the older, lower torque diesels needed lower (higher number) gearing. The newer diesels are high torque rise engines that are designed to run at a lower rpm. I don't think you "need" 4:10 gearing. The 3:55 ratio will do the job especially when paired with the 6 speed auto.
As a comparison: When I first started driving big rigs in the mid seventies, many of the trucks were equipped with 13 and 15 speed transmissions or compound transmissions (read main box and brownie) with as many as 20 gears. The shift points were about 250 rpm apart because the engines were designed to operate between 1800 and 2100 rpm. These were 850 cubic inch 350/400 hp engines that developed around 400# of torque. The rear end ratios were most often 4:10 to 4:55 here on the west coast. The flatland truckers would run 3:90s for more top end speed. With the development of high-torque-rise engines, the Spicer 9-speed became the more common transmission because the shift points (or splits) were longer - 500 rpm or more due to the engines' ability to pick up the next higher gear without lugging. Gone were the days of the twin stick semis (darn - they fun to drive). But I digress... the modern high torque rise diesel powered pick ups just don't need super low gears unless pulling EXTREMELY heavy loads. To think otherwise is just old school, IMHO. If you aren't expecting to take off with "a cloud of tire smoke" acceleration, 3:55s are the way to go.

[larry337]

I usually stay away from discussions regarding gearing - but - FWIW - gas rigs and the older, lower torque diesels needed lower (higher number) gearing. The newer diesels are high torque rise engines that are designed to run at a lower rpm. I don't think you "need" 4:10 gearing. The 3:55 ratio will do the job especially when paired with the 6 speed auto.
As a comparison: When I first started driving big rigs in the mid seventies, many of the trucks were equipped with 13 and 15 speed transmissions or compound transmissions (read main box and brownie) with as many as 20 gears. The shift points were about 250 rpm apart because the engines were designed to operate between 1800 and 2100 rpm. These were 850 cubic inch 350/400 hp engines that developed around 400# of torque. The rear end ratios were most often 4:10 to 4:55 here on the west coast. The flatland truckers would run 3:90s for more top end speed. With the development of high-torque-rise engines, the Spicer 9-speed became the more common transmission because the shift points (or splits) were longer - 500 rpm or more due to the engines' ability to pick up the next higher gear without lugging. Gone were the days of the twin stick semis (darn - they fun to drive). But I digress... the modern high torque rise diesel powered pick ups just don't need super low gears unless pulling EXTREMELY heavy loads. To think otherwise is just old school, IMHO. If you aren't expecting to take off with "a cloud of tire smoke" acceleration, 3:55s are the way to go.Well said, and as a trucker, I agree. With 925 ft/lbs of torque the new f350 dually with a 3.55 is rated to pull 27,000lbs. Moore than any rv'r would ever need and it'll hardly ever drop a gear to maintain speed. 3.73 isn't even offered anymore and a 4.10 bumps the tow rating too 30,000. These new trucks are amazing. Tow/haul mode, set the cruise and forget it.

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[Bebo]

Thanks for the input on output.....doing some searching looks like ford must be putting 4.10 in a large portion of their 350s with dually.....shall see what the dealer can find....i guess in the big picture for my use both will do the job properly with no big downside to either other than a slight change to fuel economy....which really answers my question. Just looking forward to having a proper set up.

[Javi]

Okay... here's the deal... :D


As John said.. I went from a '12 F250 with 3:55's to a '15 F350 DRW and 3:73's.. :cool:

Not enough difference in fuel mileage to worry about unless you are robbing the grandkid's piggybanks to buy fuel..

Duallys get less MPG period... it ain't about gears it's about drag... two more tires on the ground= more drag... Fenders sticking out 2 feet on either side.. = more drag..

Best MPG with the '12 F250 (hand calculated) 19.6 Average towing the 333 MKS... 9.5

Best mileage with the F350... 18.2 (again hand calculated) Average towing the 333 MKS 9.5...


Now... here's the REAL DEAL... :whistling:

The 3:55's vs 4:10's ain't about MPG, torque, HP or butt warmers... it's about tire diameter and final drive ratio... All of them got the same drive ratios in the tranny.. Look at the TIRE DIAMETER vs rear end ratio :popcorn:

Me.... I'd go with the 4:10's and never look back.. but you won't catch me EVER buying an Aluminum pickup...

Or anything more than an XL or XLT... more than that is just a waste of money.... I love vinyl floor mats, wash 'em out with a water hose.. don't need power seats, ain't nobody but me driving it.. :D

The only gewgaw I like is hands free phone.. :facepalm:


One more...:cool:

Going from a SRW to a DRW pulling a 12.3K trailer is NIGHT & DAY.... Them folks that advocate the F350 SRW are full of it.. And "IT" ain't ribeye... :devil:

[larry337]

Thanks for the input on output.....doing some searching looks like ford must be putting 4.10 in a large portion of their 350s with dually.....shall see what the dealer can find....i guess in the big picture for my use both will do the job properly with no big downside to either other than a slight change to fuel economy....which really answers my question. Just looking forward to having a proper set up.As I said most would prefer the 4.10 because bigger is always better even though its not needed. That's why most of the ones in stock have the 4.10 and that's why it would have better resale. My last truck was a 6.7 with 3.73 gears, this one has 3.55, and you can't tell the difference. And as Javi pointed out your tire size will change the final drive anyway. My 3.55 has 34.5 inch tires and a dually has probably 31-32 inch tires so your effective ratio is higher than mine. 4.10 is overkill but you'll love either truck. So much power and a 6 speed trans where the top 2 gears are both overdrives. These are nothing like the trucks from 20 years ago.

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[gearhead]

I've pulled our Montana HC with a F350 with 3.55 and the current Ram with 3.42. Can't tell any difference. These new diesels produce so much torque you don't need a high ratio rear end. Might have to lock out 6th gear in the hills but that's no big deal. Get the 3.55 and enjoy a bit less noise and a bit more MPG unloaded.

[captcolour]

My 2017 F350 dually has the 3.55. No problem with the Alpine at probably 14K. Truck doesn't know the 5er is back there, even in the mountains of Colorado this summer. I ordered my truck and chose the 3.55 to hopefully maximize mpg when not towing.

[ADQ K9]

I ordered mine. Theory was if I am spending that kind of money I will get exactly what I want.
I specd the 3.55 ratio I was building a tow vehicle and a SRW. Was not planning for a 5er but got the 5thwl/goose neck prep package to stiffen up the rear end. At the time camper package was not available with the FX4 so no rear sway bar. I only have a 3200# pay load but it is more than enough for my needs. I can haul 2 ATV's on my Diamond Back bed cover, hook up the Tumble Weed and still be within my GVW and GCW. The main thing for me is that my truck still fits in the garage. The Tumble Weed only has a GVW of 8800#:twocents::

[Bebo]

250 short bed fits the garage....the 350 dually longbed wont - for now....time to think about the polebarn and workshop to store the 5er and truck. Gonna inquire about lefover 2017s with 3.55 equipped they way I want, but don't think gonna sweat it if now available and just go for the 4.10. I don't think noise will be an issue, heck I tow frequently with a window down on TV and my 250 has no significant noise. When not traveling is only gonna be driven a few times a week so not too worried about that.

[ADQ K9]

Bebo,
Just thought you might think of the ordering option if you have the time. ordered mine the day after Thanksgiving and took delivery of it on FEB 12.
I don't drive mine much either, I commute back and forth to work on a Boeing 737:cool:

[Bebo]

Well, did a check for a left over 2017 with what I want....in the right price range....stuck with 4.10 gearing....could not beat the price/deal....happy with decision and have room to grow trailer wise should we choose down the road. Appreciate everyone's input on gearing, thanks

[Javi]

Well, did a check for a left over 2017 with what I want....in the right price range....stuck with 4.10 gearing....could not beat the price/deal....happy with decision and have room to grow trailer wise should we choose down the road. Appreciate everyone's input on gearing, thanksWelcome to the dually club...

Javi

[Bebo]

Now just gotta get a new hitch and we are in business.....that will be next post of questioning....recs on 5th wheel hitches.....will start a different string on that after I read up on other strings

[JRTJH]

Congratulations on the new truck. You're going to enjoy it regardless of the gear ratio !!! As for the hitch, does your truck have the Ford "puck system" ??

[Bebo]

It does.....thinking about the B&W RVK3300 system....seems to have high ratings from what I can tell so far

[travelin texans]

B&W would be my 1st, 2nd, & 3rd choice.

[Bebo]

Travelin.....you just don't sound very convincing, B&W only your top 3 choices.....sounds like ya have some doubt there.

Thanks for the strong confirmation on my initial thought

[Javi]

If I hadn't found a buddy with a brand new Reese/Ford Elite hitch that he didn't want or need for $250 in trade... I would have bought the B&W Companion for the Ford puck system.. No question

[E Rod]

Bebo,

Hopefully Javi will chime in before long. He owned a diesel F205 and upgraded to a F350 dually diesel in 2015. Granted the 2017 is a bit different (lighter overall with more HP/torque) so it would be more capable than his 2015. I don't know which gear ratio he has, but he's towing a 12-13K trailer, so he can tell you from experience the differences in towing capability between the F250 and the F350 dually. I think that's your biggest question at this point, if I understand your posts.... He'll be able to give you some "sage" advice.....
Hello all . I tow a 2017 40' Alpine with 6 slideouts. Dry weight 13560 and tow it with a 2016 F350 SRW long bed, 4x4 ,3.55 axle ,6.7 power stroke. It pulls and handles very well. Truck doesn't seem to feel the weight back there as I manage to enter the interstate or climb mountains without any problems.

[pawpaw]

Very happy with my '17 F-350 DRW with the 4.10's. I pull a 371 Fuzion that grosses out at 16K pounds. Used my son in laws F-250 for 2 yrs to pull it but the 3050# pin weight was exceeding the 250's payload by too much for me. Like putting a tandem load on a single axle highway tractor in trucking terminology!! Before I broke an axle or blew a tire I bought the 350 almost a year ago and couldn't be happier. It's my daily driver also and getting 14-15 in town and 16-17 hwy at the posted limits. Not that far off from what I was getting in my '13 F-150 Ecoboost I traded in. With the 4.10's I'm in 6th @38 mph plus the truck accelerates easily and smoothly. Took a 2,300 mile round trip for Christmas and averaged 16.3 mpg so that's not bad in my book with the truck loaded down the whole time.

http://http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=5073

[Bebo]

Well, so far am happy with my f350 crewcab dually Lariat ...awaiting to get that first couple thousand miles on it before pulling our 5er. Just got a new B&W hitch for the ford puck system and getting use to the extra width of the training wheels. Something we are gonna do that never did with our 250 is visit the scales once all loaded and see where we really are weight wise.

[pawpaw]

Well, so far am happy with my f350 crewcab dually Lariat ...awaiting to get that first couple thousand miles on it before pulling out 5er

Congrats...waited a thousand with mine and no trouble. Have 11K in a little less then a year and it sits under my carport a lot!! Hope you enjoy yours as much as I like mine.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=5073

[Tinner12002]

I've not known anyone unhappy with their newer diesel powered 4.10 geared trucks! No doubt there may be some but I bet happy owners by far out way the unhappy ones. I like mine, gets great MPG and pulls from a stop easily and when using the engine brake, slows down great too.

[Bebo]

I've not known anyone unhappy with their newer diesel powered 4.10 geared trucks! No doubt there may be some but I bet happy owners by far out way the unhappy ones. I like mine, gets great MPG and pulls from a stop easily and when using the engine brake, slows down great too.

Looking forward to having and using the engine/exhaust brake as have never used one. Live in western NC, any direction we go we have to travel through some mountains, esp if go west or north from home so hoping engine brake will be useful.

[rhagfo]

Looking forward to having and using the engine/exhaust brake as have never used one. Live in western NC, any direction we go we have to travel through some mountains, esp if go west or north from home so hoping engine brake will be useful.

I installed a PacBrake on our 2001 Ram, and it is awesome! I have a manual transmission and very seldom need to use the service brakes in hills. It is always on and there is nothing like going down a long grade watching all the brake lights ahead, and listening to the sweet rumble of the exhaust brake! :D