Axle rating

[Afrnd2all]

I have a question about sticker on side of 5th wheel, that we are interested in. The GVWR of 5th wheel is 10000# The sticker ( see attached) says the axles are rated at 4400# Are these axles under rated or am I reading this wrong? Thanks for all the great info. This forum

[rjrelander]

12% (1200 lbs) on the hitch? (10000 - 1200) / 2 = 4400

[Terry W.]

I have a question about sticker on side of 5th wheel, that we are interested in. The GVWR of 5th wheel is 10000# The sticker ( see attached) says the axles are rated at 4400# Are these axles under rated or am I reading this wrong? Thanks for all the great info. This forum4400 x 2 = 8800# on trailer axles. The other 2200# are pin weight on the hitch in the truck bed.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[rhagfo]

Let’s see if we can get the math correct?
Pin on a 5er should be between 15% and 25% so pin would be between 1,500 and 2,500#.
Then 10,000# - 1,500 = 8,500# and 10,000 - 2,500# = 7,500# on the axles.
At 15% pin you would be tight on axle rating, at 20% only 8,000# would be on the axles.

[dcg9381]

IF that RV is new, look at the tag on the axles themselves.. It's possible that it could be different.

Regardless of it being 15% or 20% on the pin, that's pretty at capacity IMHO... What's the model of that RV?

[notanlines]

It is a 298 SRL Laredo. 2018

[goducks]

Shipping Weight 8910
Carrying Capacity 1090
Hitch 1410
Length 34' 6"
Height 12' 3"
Fresh Water 43
Waste Water 30
Gray Water 60
LPG 60
Tire Size ST225/75R15D

Way way under rated axles. UVW 8910. GVWR 10,000. That only leaves 1170 for gear.
And thats the dry brochure weight. Subtract the batteries and propane. 150 lbs.
So basically 1,000 lbs for CCC before you've put a beer or box of Kleenx in the 5er.

[rhagfo]

Shipping Weight 8910
Carrying Capacity 1090
Hitch 1410
Length 34' 6"
Height 12' 3"
Fresh Water 43
Waste Water 30
Gray Water 60
LPG 60
Tire Size ST225/75R15D

Way way under rated axles. UVW 8910. GVWR 10,000. That only leaves 1170 for gear.
And thats the dry brochure weight. Subtract the batteries and propane. 150 lbs.
So basically 1,000 lbs for CCC before you've put a beer or box of Kleenx in the 5er.

That CCC is insane for a 34’ 5er!!!
This is a subject that gets overlooked way too often, is very low CCC on many 5ers in the 32’+ range. Looked up a 38’ Heartland TH specs and it had a 1,400# CCC in a TH!!!
Our 32’ 5er has a dry weight of 9,820# plus water and propane of 434# (H2O weight of 374) and a GVWR of 12,360. The listed CCC is 2,106# which we are using about 1,600# of.

[JRTJH]

Another significant limiting factor for this model is the waste water capacity.

Shipping Weight 8910
Carrying Capacity 1090
Hitch 1410
Length 34' 6"
Height 12' 3"
Fresh Water 43
Waste Water 30
Gray Water 60
LPG 60
Tire Size ST225/75R15D

If you consider a carrying capacity of 1090, deduct 60 pounds for propane and install two 45 pound GP27 batteries (90 lbs) that leaves 1090 - 150 = 940 pounds. The spare tire isn't included in the unloaded weight, so add that in and you'd deduct another 50 pounds from the cargo 940 - 50 = 890 pounds of real cargo capacity.

Now, if you dry camp, you'd pull the trailer to the campground full of fresh water (43x8.3=357) with only 890-357= 533 pounds of available cargo capacity. The tough part is towing home from the desert or forest or lake after dry camping with full waste tanks. 30+60 (90x8.3=747) So, with 747 pounds of waste water onboard and a max of 890 (assuming your fresh water tank is completely empty on return) you've only got around 150 pounds of cargo that you can have onboard before you are at the trailer GVW.....

Many ultralight and superlight trailers are just not equipped to carry the load of "typical dry camping".... Our Cougar XLite has a cargo capacity of 2860 and similar sized holding tanks, we push very near to our GVW when returning from a dry camping trip with full tanks.

[CWtheMan]

Shipping Weight 8910
Carrying Capacity 1090
Hitch 1410
Length 34' 6"
Height 12' 3"
Fresh Water 43
Waste Water 30
Gray Water 60
LPG 60
Tire Size ST225/75R15D

Way way under rated axles. UVW 8910. GVWR 10,000. That only leaves 1170 for gear.
And thats the dry brochure weight. Subtract the batteries and propane. 150 lbs.
So basically 1,000 lbs for CCC before you've put a beer or box of Kleenx in the 5er.

Add 8910 & 1090 = 10000, that’s the trailer’s GVWR.

Subtract 1410 from 10000 = 8590, divide by 2 = 4295 that’s the maximum load allowed per axle. The 1410 is carried by the tow vehicle.

They fudged it a bit to insure the axles - 4400# ea when added to 1410 exceeds GVWR.

Batteries and full propane tanks are part of the trailers shipping weight if installed at the factory. (Ref; FMVSS 571.110)

[rhagfo]

Add 8910 & 1090 = 10000, that’s the trailer’s GVWR.

Subtract 1410 from 10000 = 8590, divide by 2 = 4295 that’s the maximum load allowed per axle. The 1410 is carried by the tow vehicle.

They fudged it a bit to insure the axles - 4400# ea when added to 1410 exceeds GVWR.

Batteries and full propane tanks are part of the trailers shipping weight if installed at the factory. (Ref; FMVSS 571.110)

The 1,410 is the DRY pin weight, the 1,410 is 16.4% of the dry weight it will increase as the trailer is loaded. At 16.4% it would be 1,640# and would likely be closer to 1,800# to even 2,000#.

[Afrnd2all]

Everyone, Thanks for all of the input. Have not purchased this trailer. It is a serious contender. 100% sure we will not be dry camping. Wife and I are at retirement age. And are looking for something that will be comfortable for both us, For trips that would last a month or two.

[sourdough]

Everyone, Thanks for all of the input. Have not purchased this trailer. It is a serious contender. 100% sure we will not be dry camping. Wife and I are at retirement age. And are looking for something that will be comfortable for both us, For trips that would last a month or two.

Keep in mind that "camping for a month or two" is far different than dry camping somewhere for a long weekend.....I can promise. You will max out things to take. I had previously posted about my brother that came to see us here in FL and all he ever did was weekend/long weekend camping. Gracious, the things we have that they never considered (but wanted) once they got here was endless. Your weight is going to grow exponentially as you want/need more and more stuff to stay longer.

[rhagfo]

Keep in mind that "camping for a month or two" is far different than dry camping somewhere for a long weekend.....I can promise. You will max out things to take. I had previously posted about my brother that came to see us here in FL and all he ever did was weekend/long weekend camping. Gracious, the things we have that they never considered (but wanted) once they got here was endless. Your weight is going to grow exponentially as you want/need more and more stuff to stay longer.

X2!
You will be suprised how fast that 1,090# CCC will be gone!
So far no mention of what the TV is, I would be looking at a 5er in that size with at least twice that CCC.

[IRV2]

I had posted a similar question a while back on these axel ratings, I have the same 5er the OP is considering. I was shocked to see the axle capacity was only 4400# each.

[jsmith948]

I had posted a similar question a while back on these axel ratings, I have the same 5er the OP is considering. I was shocked to see the axle capacity was only 4400# each.Our Cougar had a GVWR of 10070#. The axles were rated at 4400# each. We weighed that trailer several times and never exceed 8800# on the axles. Usually scaled around 8000# to 8200#.
Our Laredo has a GVWR of 10000#. The axles are rated at 4400# each.
This trailer is, by my measurement, 2 1/2 ft longer than the Cougar, and the total tank capacity is 41 gallons less.
We selected this model because it had the floor plan we wanted and the GVWR we can handle.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[Tinner12002]

Well its good to see Keystone went the other way on some...19K GVWR, 21K axle rating and 24K tire rating all on the same RV!

[Afrnd2all]

TV is a ‘17 F-250 6.7l turbo diesel Ecab SB

[flybouy]

I have a question about sticker on side of 5th wheel, that we are interested in. The GVWR of 5th wheel is 10000# The sticker ( see attached) says the axles are rated at 4400# Are these axles under rated or am I reading this wrong? Thanks for all the great info. This forum

1 Don't take any beverages, mooch off your neighbors.
2 Use cg bath house for all those needs.
3 Take only dehydrated food and some slim- jims
4 Only pack one change of close, you can hand wash and rotate out
5 Only fill tv tank 1/2 way

It's a shame they don't make air bags for trailers, you could easily double that payload!

Obviously I'm being a smart a$$ but seems to me like Keystone is chasing a a magic 10k number so they can say "sure this can be pulled with these trucks". Buyer beware and congratulations on your awareness. Hope you find what you are looking for.

[rhagfo]

Our Cougar had a GVWR of 10070#. The axles were rated at 4400# each. We weighed that trailer several times and never exceed 8800# on the axles. Usually scaled around 8000# to 8200#.
Our Laredo has a GVWR of 10000#. The axles are rated at 4400# each.
This trailer is, by my measurement, 2 1/2 ft longer than the Cougar, and the total tank capacity is 41 gallons less.
We selected this model because it had the floor plan we wanted and the GVWR we can handle.


Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

1 Don't take any beverages, mooch off your neighbors.
2 Use cg bath house for all those needs.
3 Take only dehydrated food and some slim- jims
4 Only pack one change of close, you can hand wash and rotate out
5 Only fill tv tank 1/2 way

It's a shame they don't make air bags for trailers, you could easily double that payload!

Obviously I'm being a smart a$$ but seems to me like Keystone is chasing a a magic 10k number so they can say "sure this can be pulled with these trucks". Buyer beware and congratulations on your awareness. Hope you find what you are looking for.

Flybouy, not sure you are too far off! These “Lite” 5ers with lengths of 30’ to 34’ and CC of about 1,000# would be difficult to do any extended trave in without exceeding the GVWR and axle & tire ratings! This might have more to do with “China Bombs” than the tire construction!
Much discussion on the forum and postings by “Weight Police” about the dangers of overloading the TV, what about overloading the RV???
Our Copper Canyon is 32’ and after accounting for propane and 45 gallons of water at 374# we still have 2,106# of CCC.

[JRTJH]

Many of the XLite and SuperLite fifth wheels in the 30-34' range use the same frame. Keystone cuts off the rear of the frame for shorter models. Essentially what this does is move the axles toward the rear (not physically, rather by the rear being closer to the axles). This typically increases the pin weight by having less bulk behind the axles to "lever" the pin weight.

Another "pitfall" for the current model "lites" is the added equipment. My 31' 2014 Cougar XLite weighs 7136 with a cargo capacity of 2864. That's almost 3,000 pounds of cargo capacity. Three times the current payload of some "lites".

If you add 350 pounds of automatic leveling system, 100 pounds of sliding rear bike rack, 150 pounds of 12 cuft refrigerator (replacing a 6 or 8 cuft) opposing slides, larger holding tanks, two or three TV's, outdoor kitchens and that's just a start..... All of those "nice to have options" add weight to the trailer and significantly reduce cargo capacity.

Which way (max cargo or max options) is the way to go? We're at a decision point as consumers. Buy a trailer with lots of conveniences and critically limited cargo capacity or buy a trailer with less "fluff" and more cargo capability?

It looks to me, that Keystone is moving toward "fluff" in some brands and definitely to larger trailers. There is no "full height, side bed slide" fifth wheel left in the Keystone inventory that's shorter than 34'. Cougar, the mainstay fifth wheel in Keystone's line, is eliminating all their fifth wheels shorter than 35'. Last year every model introduced by Cougar was 37' or longer. So, it seems that Keystone is making the decisions for us. If you want a "full size fifth wheel with a side bed slide" you're going to have to buy a 1 ton truck to tow it. You can "compromise" with a lite or superlite and use a 3/4 ton truck and, for the most part, "half ton towing" is a farce for any "off the shelf" half ton truck from any of the top 4. Ford does have a "HD half ton" with a 2600 lb payload, but that's a special order on any dealer's lot. That's a specialty vehicle that just isn't available to the buyer that's kicking tires.....

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see an industry that is "upsizing" their products and during the transition, we're going to see quite a few "newbies" and "unaware buyers" that get burned with the current hype about "smaller vehicle towing" while the trailers "grow longer and heavier" with less cargo capacity.

As long as the economy keeps improving and job availability keeps growing, the "feel good economy" will keep people buying bigger and better. When will we reach that "ceiling" where we stop buying bigger trucks and bigger trailers? Who knows. It looks like Keystone is betting it won't be in the near future. Same with all of THOR and FR/Winnebago as well.

[sourdough]

Many of the XLite and SuperLite fifth wheels in the 30-34' range use the same frame. Keystone cuts off the rear of the frame for shorter models. Essentially what this does is move the axles toward the rear (not physically, rather by the rear being closer to the axles). This typically increases the pin weight by having less bulk behind the axles to "lever" the pin weight.

Another "pitfall" for the current model "lites" is the added equipment. My 31' 2014 Cougar XLite weighs 7136 with a cargo capacity of 2864. That's almost 3,000 pounds of cargo capacity. Three times the current payload of some "lites".

If you add 350 pounds of automatic leveling system, 100 pounds of sliding rear bike rack, 150 pounds of 12 cuft refrigerator (replacing a 6 or 8 cuft) opposing slides, larger holding tanks, two or three TV's, outdoor kitchens and that's just a start..... All of those "nice to have options" add weight to the trailer and significantly reduce cargo capacity.

Which way (max cargo or max options) is the way to go? We're at a decision point as consumers. Buy a trailer with lots of conveniences and critically limited cargo capacity or buy a trailer with less "fluff" and more cargo capability?

It looks to me, that Keystone is moving toward "fluff" in some brands and definitely to larger trailers. There is no "full height, side bed slide" fifth wheel left in the Keystone inventory that's shorter than 34'. Cougar, the mainstay fifth wheel in Keystone's line, is eliminating all their fifth wheels shorter than 35'. Last year every model introduced by Cougar was 37' or longer. So, it seems that Keystone is making the decisions for us. If you want a "full size fifth wheel with a side bed slide" you're going to have to buy a 1 ton truck to tow it. You can "compromise" with a lite or superlite and use a 3/4 ton truck and, for the most part, "half ton towing" is a farce for any "off the shelf" half ton truck from any of the top 4. Ford does have a "HD half ton" with a 2600 lb payload, but that's a special order on any dealer's lot. That's a specialty vehicle that just isn't available to the buyer that's kicking tires.....

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see an industry that is "upsizing" their products and during the transition, we're going to see quite a few "newbies" and "unaware buyers" that get burned with the current hype about "smaller vehicle towing" while the trailers "grow longer and heavier" with less cargo capacity.

As long as the economy keeps improving and job availability keeps growing, the "feel good economy" will keep people buying bigger and better. When will we reach that "ceiling" where we stop buying bigger trucks and bigger trailers? Who knows. It looks like Keystone is betting it won't be in the near future. Same with all of THOR and FR/Winnebago as well.


I don't know if it's me but it "feels" like we may be getting near the limit on lengths of trailers. Our TT is almost 37'. We stay at lots of improved rv parks and many get pretty short with that length of trailer. Lots of them seem to have been built not expecting to have 40'+ units in the sites. Some seem limited simply by the placement of their utilities. Most of those can be overcome by using extended water, sewer and power lines but it's still a pain and illustrates, to me, that they weren't thinking of longer trailers when laying out the sites. A place may say "65' pull thru sites" but when you get there you find that it's almost impossible to use the site without the truck or trailer extending into the road(s).

Another aspect of growing trailer sizes is also the growing truck size required to pull it. Although some, if not many, folks just go ahead and pull with "whatever" most will try to get the proper sized truck. With a one ton truck being the minimum to carry many of these upper sized trailers, if not a dually, for me and I assume others, the cost/benefit of making that kind of investment for just kicking around comes into play. With trucks hitting the 80k range and a trailer hitting the 100k range, I think we are going to see folks trying to either downsize or at least limit the sizes of what they get/money they spend. Of course there are always some that will buy the biggest and baddest because but I do think for the majority we may be hitting the limit. Decades ago a 25 footer was considered a pretty good size trailer....and no slides. We have come a long way.

[rhagfo]

Well not sure if any states have a max length of trailer, but our Ram Quad cab Long bed is 16’ from front bumper to the hitch pin location. This means at 65’ max combined length we could pull a 49’ 5er :facepalm:!! While no way could I carry it, then a 3500 CC LB, would add about another 18” so 47.5’ that is a lot of
5er.
Then the is the issue of total sq. ft. of floor area, I believe it is less than 400 sq. ft. so that may reduce the total length based on the number and size of slides.

[notanlines]

While the custom cargo trailer manufacturers building 53 foot custom 5ver's at a dime a dozen, there is a limit to how many custom 5th wheel RV manufacturers will build a 57 foot behemoth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t1xSHwuLyE

[jsmith948]

While the custom cargo trailer manufacturers building 53 foot custom 5ver's at a dime a dozen, there is a limit to how many custom 5th wheel RV manufacturers will build a 57 foot behemoth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t1xSHwuLyEJust the thing for a weekend of fly fishing. Might have to put bags on my Ford.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

[JRTJH]

Most of Space Craft's business is the circus/carnival industry. They build "homes on wheels" for people who travel for a living and don't want to spend 9 months in a "tin box". Most of the "luxury models" are sold to the carnival owners, who live in their 5 bedroom home in Florida when not on the road. The "utility models" also the same 53' length, make up 6 or 7 "bedroom units" with 2 bunks and 2 dressers in each compartment. Almost all of this type "RV" are pulled by 5 ton tractors (or bigger), not a typical tow vehicle we'd buy for our "full time unit"......

[MerlinB]

O.M.G! A marble shower. I feel so unworthy. :bow:

[flybouy]

While the custom cargo trailer manufacturers building 53 foot custom 5ver's at a dime a dozen, there is a limit to how many custom 5th wheel RV manufacturers will build a 57 foot behemoth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t1xSHwuLyE

I should be totally good pulling with my f150 with airbags right?:lol:

[madmaxmutt]

All good.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[440justin]

Ouch! That is cray low CCC given the size of the trailer. My 2013 passport 23RB is in tandem 4400# axles and I have a CCC of 2240 in a 23' unit.

Keystone must get a good price on the 4400# axle as it shows up on a lot of units.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[rhagfo]

Ouch! That is cray low CCC given the size of the trailer. My 2013 passport 23RB is in tandem 4400# axles and I have a CCC of 2240 in a 23' unit.

Keystone must get a good price on the 4400# axle as it shows up on a lot of units.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I assume that you are referring to the 1,090# CCC of the Laredo 298SRL. That 5er is 34’ 6” long, one would need to pack lite to avoid exceeding the GVWR, and more importantly the axle and possibly tire rating on this unit.

[CWtheMan]

A quote from a NHTSA Q&A PDF.

"The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."

[rhagfo]

A quote from a NHTSA Q&A PDF.

"The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."

I also feel it is responsibility of manufacture to provide a trailer with enough CCC to cover the intended use!
Manufacturing/offering for sale a 34’ 5th wheel with a 1,090# CCC is ridiculous!! That is inviting the end user to be over weight.
The same can be said for several of the Heartland Cyclone TH, the Y3600 has a CCC of 2,100# for a 39’ TH, once again very easy to exceed the GVWR, using it as intended!

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=rhagfo;270060]I also feel it is responsibility of manufacture to provide a trailer with enough CCC to cover the intended use!
Manufacturing/offering for sale a 34’ 5th wheel with a 1,090# CCC is ridiculous!! That is inviting the end user to be over weight.
The same can be said for several of the Heartland Cyclone TH, the Y3600 has a CCC of 2,100# for a 39’ TH, once again very easy to exceed the GVWR, using it as intended![/QUOTEat


I disagree. The manufacturers of RVs, and most any other thing, put things out there that just don't make sense, or work. It is absolutely up to the end purchaser to know what they are buying and what works or doesn't. The numbers for any RV are posted on the RV, the internet etc. It is up to the end user to be smart enough to figure out what's what and how they are going to use the trailer....not the manufacturer. The days of shifting responsibility to "someone else" due to your own ignorance, lack of due diligence or failure to just take care should be over.

[rhagfo]

[QUOTE=rhagfo;270060]I also feel it is responsibility of manufacture to provide a trailer with enough CCC to cover the intended use!
Manufacturing/offering for sale a 34’ 5th wheel with a 1,090# CCC is ridiculous!! That is inviting the end user to be over weight.
The same can be said for several of the Heartland Cyclone TH, the Y3600 has a CCC of 2,100# for a 39’ TH, once again very easy to exceed the GVWR, using it as intended![/QUOTEat


I disagree. The manufacturers of RVs, and most any other thing, put things out there that just don't make sense, or work. It is absolutely up to the end purchaser to know what they are buying and what works or doesn't. The numbers for any RV are posted on the RV, the internet etc. It is up to the end user to be smart enough to figure out what's what and how they are going to use the trailer....not the manufacturer. The days of shifting responsibility to "someone else" due to your own ignorance, lack of due diligence or failure to just take care should be over.

While I agree the the end user is responsible for staying under tire, axle, and GVWR it is also the responsibility of the manufacture to create a unit that has a reasonable CCC.
The listed CCC on our 32’ Copper Canyon is 2,106# and that is with a FULL FW tank (374#) and propane (60#). To me this is a reasonable CCC for a 32’ 5th wheel.
Then there is the 2015 333MKS, with a CCC of 1,760# at nearly 37’ while within reason, is still a little snug for that length. Not sure if that CCC is above and beyond propane, and FW tank.
The scary part is I doubt many buyers look at the payload sticker on their units before buying. I know I have gotten strange looks from salespersons at RV shows when I duck under the nose to go look at the payload sticker.

[sbarlag]

"Intended use" and "reasonable" are so subjective. Ultimately the buyer needs to operate within the guidelines set forth by the mfg. If the buyer cannot do that, then the buyer needs to continue searching or not purchase. Don't blame the mfg if the user cannot operate within the guidelines.

[IRV2]

I have that model and my ccc sticker is 1340. My scaled weight was 9580. Thats full propane and two batteries. Some fresh water and camping gear. At 20% pin thats 1916 in my truck and it has ccc of 2189. My total weight was 17540. This is not a good combo:facepalm:

[rhagfo]

I have that model and my ccc sticker is 1340. My scaled weight was 9580. Thats full propane and two batteries. Some fresh water and camping gear. At 20% pin thats 1916 in my truck and it has ccc of 2189. My total weight was 17540. This is not a good combo:facepalm:

Why not you appear to be under GVWR by my math, you are at 9,976 on the TV, 1,916 on the pin and 7,664 on the trailer axles.
Does it tow ok, I see bags and an F250, so likely fighting sag from soft springs.

What other issues?

[vampress_me]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see an industry that is "upsizing" their products and during the transition, we're going to see quite a few "newbies" and "unaware buyers" that get burned with the current hype about "smaller vehicle towing" while the trailers "grow longer and heavier" with less cargo capacity.

This totally reminded me of some people we camped next to in Missoula a couple of years ago. It was a 38' Cedar Creek fifth wheel towed by a F-150 - with Minnesota plates on both. I'm still wondering how fun Homestake pass by Butte was for them...

[IRV2]

Why not you appear to be under GVWR by my math, you are at 9,976 on the TV, 1,916 on the pin and 7,664 on the trailer axles.
Does it tow ok, I see bags and an F250, so likely fighting sag from soft springs.

What other issues?

It feels so comfortable and it tows great, even better than the previous tow behind. Which is when I added bags. The bags sure do help with the ride I understand they don't do anything for weight. Its really the numbers that are concerning to me and I didn't understand any of this weight rating stuff. I'm really close to overloading even on a three day weekend. However I'm learning and appreciate this forum. :bow:

[rhagfo]

This totally reminded me of some people we camped next to in Missoula a couple of years ago. It was a 38' Cedar Creek fifth wheel towed by a F-150 - with Minnesota plates on both. I'm still wondering how fun Homestake pass by Butte was for them...

Was the F150 an EcoBoost? If it was max tow and max payload likely no worst than a F250 with a 6.2.
Now, about tires, wheels, and axle that would be interesting to know what they had for tires and wheels.

The big question is did you see it hooked up and was it anywhere near level???

[cathcartww]

Our 2012 Outback 277RL TT grosses close to 9000 lbs. and came with LRD tires and 4400lb axles - in my opinion, just barely adequate. Blew a tire after 2 years, so updated with Maaxis LRE tires. They ran well for a few more years, until the inside edges started wearing due to the axles loosing their chamber. Recently updated to 6000 lb axles and springs and Goodyear Guardian LRE tires, so hopefully those problems are behind us. Those original axles and tires may have been OK for someone that only tows the trailer a few hundred miles over weekends, but we travel like 5000 miles a year over several months at a time, and they weren't up to that kind of use.

[vampress_me]

Was the F150 an EcoBoost? If it was max tow and max payload likely no worst than a F250 with a 6.2.
Now, about tires, wheels, and axle that would be interesting to know what they had for tires and wheels.

The big question is did you see it hooked up and was it anywhere near level???

No EcoBoost. Had crunched his bed rails at some point with the 5er. Was a 5.4L crew cab, and the same body style as my Dad's 2009 F-150. I did not go next door and stare at their tires, so can't tell you on that. We did not see it hooked up because they were there longer than us. We were only in town for a couple of days for our son's cardiology appointment while going between Glacier and Yellowstone. And I still would have liked to have seen them go over Homestake with that setup.

[Tinner12002]

I think I've mentioned this before, in my situation, my rv is rated at 19K GVWR, shipped weight is 16.2K, max weight in garage is 3020# which in itself would put me over GVWR. I'm good on my truck as far as weight according to the scales anyway. The interesting part is my axle rating is 21K and my tire rating is 24.4K. When I called a factory rep he told me that I could exceed the GVWR as long as I didn't exceed the axle rating, but, if I exceeded the GVWR and got stopped and weighed then I'd be in trouble. So what I'm saying is that my rv only has a CCC of 2900# which really isn't squat for a toy hauler but is it under rated on the GVWR? Again, according to the rep it is.

[rhagfo]

No EcoBoost. Had crunched his bed rails at some point with the 5er. Was a 5.4L crew cab, and the same body style as my Dad's 2009 F-150. I did not go next door and stare at their tires, so can't tell you on that. We did not see it hooked up because they were there longer than us. We were only in town for a couple of days for our son's cardiology appointment while going between Glacier and Yellowstone. And I still would have liked to have seen them go over Homestake with that setup.

X2
Would have love to have seen it hooked up! Must have been screaming in 1st gear going about 5mph.

[CWtheMan]

I think I've mentioned this before, in my situation, my rv is rated at 19K GVWR, shipped weight is 16.2K, max weight in garage is 3020# which in itself would put me over GVWR. I'm good on my truck as far as weight according to the scales anyway. The interesting part is my axle rating is 21K and my tire rating is 24.4K. When I called a factory rep he told me that I could exceed the GVWR as long as I didn't exceed the axle rating, but, if I exceeded the GVWR and got stopped and weighed then I'd be in trouble. So what I'm saying is that my rv only has a CCC of 2900# which really isn't squat for a toy hauler but is it under rated on the GVWR? Again, according to the rep it is.

The way pick-up trucks are fitted by their builder causes their axles and tires to always have a higher load capacity than what they are fitted to. In other words, the axles will total out above the vehicle’s GVWR and the tires will total out above an axles GAWR. It’s called “load capacity reserve”.

The ultimate limiting factor on any vehicle is it’s GVWR. The next time someone tells you it’s alright to exceed GVWR, ask them to provide that information in writing.

[Tinner12002]

The way pick-up trucks are fitted by their builder causes their axles and tires to always have a higher load capacity than what they are fitted to. In other words, the axles will total out above the vehicle’s GVWR and the tires will total out above an axles GAWR. It’s called “load capacity reserve”.

The ultimate limiting factor on any vehicle is it’s GVWR. The next time someone tells you it’s alright to exceed GVWR, ask them to provide that information in writing.

I think you may have misunderstood, My whole comment was about my RV, not my truck.
I doubt any RV manufacturer is going to put it in writing that its ok to exceed a stated GVWR on one of their trailers. Way too big a liability issue there!

[ctbruce]

I think you may have misunderstood, My whole comment was about my RV, not my truck.
I doubt any RV manufacturer is going to put it in writing that its ok to exceed a stated GVWR on one of their trailers. Way too big a liability issue there!Trailer or truck, same this apply. What a dealer/salesman say is one thing. What they'll put in writing is another. And I believe that you are right: they'll NEVER put it in writing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[rhagfo]

The way pick-up trucks are fitted by their builder causes their axles and tires to always have a higher load capacity than what they are fitted to. In other words, the axles will total out above the vehicle’s GVWR and the tires will total out above an axles GAWR. It’s called “load capacity reserve”.

The ultimate limiting factor on any vehicle is it’s GVWR. The next time someone tells you it’s alright to exceed GVWR, ask them to provide that information in writing.

That statement isn't 100% true, the rear axle rating on my 2001 Ram is exactly the 245/75-16E 3,042# rating times two, or 6,084#. I have the optional 265/75-16E's at 3,415# ea.

[CWtheMan]

I think you may have misunderstood, My whole comment was about my RV, not my truck.
I doubt any RV manufacturer is going to put it in writing that its ok to exceed a stated GVWR on one of their trailers. Way too big a liability issue there!

The ultimate limiting factor on any vehicle is it’s GVWR.

The specs to work your weight with are on the trailer's labeling. If the dealer did his "due diligence" with the CCC label your figures won't be over GVWR.

RV trailer fitments differ some from your truck's fitments. Keystone has gone overboard with their large 3 axle trailers and given their owner's LOTS of load capacity reserves. To get the braking capacity for the 19K trailer they probably had to go with 7000# GAWR axles. Doing so forced them to go with the LRG tires. I hope somewhere in the owner's manual they stressed not to exceed GVWR. You have lots of tire and axle reserves.

The reason I stressed the truck's limiting factors is because some think the commercial "hot shot" trucking info fits their situation and it does not.

[travelin texans]

The ultimate limiting factor on any vehicle is it’s GVWR.

The specs to work your weight with are on the trailer's labeling. If the dealer did his "due diligence" with the CCC label your figures won't be over GVWR.

RV trailer fitments differ some from your truck's fitments. Keystone has gone overboard with their large 3 axle trailers and given their owner's LOTS of load capacity reserves. To get the braking capacity for the 19K trailer they probably had to go with 7000# GAWR axles. Doing so forced them to go with the LRG tires. I hope somewhere in the owner's manual they stressed not to exceed GVWR. You have lots of tire and axle reserves.

The reason I stressed the truck's limiting factors is because some think the commercial "hot shot" trucking info fits their situation and it does not.

95% of those big THs should never be hooked up to anything but a dually truck either, I've lost count on how many I've seen behind 2500/250s, sorry folks that ain't enough truck once it's full of toys regardless of what your rv or truck salesman told you. My buddy bought a 42' TH 2 years ago that had GY Marathons Es on it, he almost made it from OKC to Tucson before blowing 2 of them, he has also upgraded to 17.5" Sailun 637 H, now has no more tire worries.

[KHBama]

It feels so comfortable and it tows great, even better than the previous tow behind. Which is when I added bags. The bags sure do help with the ride I understand they don't do anything for weight. Its really the numbers that are concerning to me and I didn't understand any of this weight rating stuff. I'm really close to overloading even on a three day weekend. However I'm learning and appreciate this forum. :bow:

WELCOME TO THE CLUB!! I have a similar 5er, Laredo 285SBH. My combo weighs in right at 9600lbs for the truck(loaded with gear and family), 16,700lbs combined. My Ram 2500 has a payload of 2260lbs, I'm over payload but well under axle and Combined ratings. It 100% tows better than my 6,000lb Travel trailer did. I installed airbags in my just for peace and mind, have very little squat on the back before the air bags. I would pay close attention to your tire and axle ratings unless you plan on going up to a 3500/350 anytime soon. I will do that in a few years but until then, I'll pay close attention to the same

[NorskeBob]

Once you are all loaded up go to a CAT scale and see how much load is on the axles. You may be close to the axle rating.