F-250 Super Duty or Chev 2500

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hi:
We live in Australia and will be coming to the US in May/June this year (2018) to purchase a new Outback TT and a pickup to tow it with.

These are must haves: a crew or extended cab truck, short/medium WB, Flex fuel, Tow package, XLT or higher model (Ford, or equivalent Chev), Any color except black, 100,000 miles or less, up to $20K (neg)

These are would likes: Tonneau or canopy cover, WDH hitch

These are deal breakers: Any accident history, hail damage, been driven on salted roads, been under water (flood), any frame damage, any unresolved major mechanical problems

If you're thinking of upgrading your truck this year and want a better price than the dealers will give you, and your truck fits the requirements, PM me and let's talk.
:cool:

[travelin texans]

Steering wheel on the left or right? You know we drive backwards up here?

[FlyingAroundRV]

Steering wheel on the left or right? You know we drive backwards up here?
We just passed the same sex marriage act so we're ambidextrous (ambi-steering?) down here.:D

[FlyingAroundRV]

UPDATE:
OK, after some research on the reliability of pickup trucks, we've decided to go for a Toyota Tundra.
Sooo, anybody got a late(ish) model Tundra they want to sell? Anything from 2013 onwards. Must be 5.7L SR5 or above, with the floor shift, Double cab or CrewCab, not driven on salted roads, up to 100,000 miles, Non-smoker and good condition, clean title.
Looking for something up to $25,000.

[notanlines]

Sure, Scott. It's okay to buy a Toyota pickup, maybe a Can-Am to haul behind. Your friends won't see you in it over here. :popcorn::D

[FlyingAroundRV]

Sure, Scott. It's okay to buy a Toyota pickup, maybe a Can-Am to haul behind. Your friends won't see you in it over here. :popcorn::D
:confused:

[JRTJH]

I'd question your comparisons: You're comparing a Ford F250/Chev 2500 (10,000 GVW) to a Toyota Tundra (7,200 GVW)... That's a 2,800 pound capacity difference.

Wouldn't that be more like comparing a Ford Explorer to a Expedition????

The "problem" with your choice of a Tundra (as I see it) is that you're downgrading from a 3/4 ton "truck" to a 1/2 ton chassis with a truck body on it.

You'll be losing well over 1000 pounds of payload with any gas model 3/4 ton and that payload will be critical in safely towing most travel trailers over 30' in length.

Last time I passed the Toyota dealership, there was a "line of trucks/cars waiting" to be repaired there too. Any more, it's a "fair wash" as to which vehicle is the most reliable. You won't find Toyota's to be any more capable than other half ton trucks and they certainly aren't as capable as the Ford/Chev 3/4 ton truck when it comes to heavy duty towing.

[hankaye]

FlyingAroundRV, Howdy;

G'day, If I were in your shoes, I'd consider the maintenance side of life.
If you intend to ship the complete rig back "downunder" then what services
such as parts and trained mechanics are available.

JRTJH brought up a good point about load capacity. Do you intend to go
light or push it to it's maximum load rating? Personally, I'd rather not keep
the tow vehicle pushing it's limits every time I hook up to the RV.

What about your electrics? You guys run with the European style and if I
remember correctly we had someone else on here a year or 2 ago that was
facing the prospect of having to re-wire the RV so it would be compatiable
when going to campgrounds or just hooking up at home.

You DO have a lot to consider as to how to spend the large amount of money
this is going to take. Think long and hard don't act on impulse.

hankaye
you

[Tinner12002]

Sure, Scott. It's okay to buy a Toyota pickup, maybe a Can-Am to haul behind. Your friends won't see you in it over here. :popcorn::D

I agree notanlines, not much out there I would consider using a Toyota or Nissan either for that matter to tow or haul with, but that's just my personal preference, not counting the higher service and parts costs.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hankaye:
First off, I notice that you've not long ago lost your beloved border collie, my condolences to you.
As for bringing our rig back to Oz? I would love to do that, but it is not practical, and so that was never the plan. But you are quite right about the complications, and they are endless. But also, the road system here in Australia would demolish the ultralight trailer we will be buying. In any case, the roads are narrow and rough and towing a 30' trailer here would be a nightmare of epic proportions. And that's all before you consider feeding a 5.7L V8 at $5.00 / gal.
So the plan is to store the rig in the time we will be in Oz "Flying Around" and only using it for three months while we're in the US. We'll do this for 5-6 years and if we've had enough of touring the US, sell it off. It makes for pretty cheap travel overall. The initial outlay is a fair bit, but in the long run...

JRTJH:
Our TT is a 1/2 ton towable, but (with the Fords and Chevs) only if you get the right rear axle ratio and the tow package that has the upgraded radiator and oil coolers. Trying to pick a ford or chev out of the used truck fleet that had the right configuration was looking like winning the lottery, ie a chance in a million. Add to that, when I did some research on the reliability of those trucks, I found that whole industries have sprung up to deal with the design flaws in them. Whole businesses are based on "bulletproofing" engines and repairing ejected spark plugs...And still the manufacturers don't seem to have addressed these faults.
With all due respect, observing the lines for service at a dealership is only anecdotal evidence of reliability. If you want objective numbers, you need to look through the NHTSA or CarComplaints databases. That tells an awful story about design faults in the American trucks. Did you know that the Toyota has the highest % of American parts and labor? And finally, having owned 3 Toyota vehicles (2 hiluxes and a Rav) I have confidence in their reliability.

OK now I've blathered on long enough. Thanks for your inputs and suggestions. I hope we can meet up with members of the forum while we're there. I've got stickers to put on our rig, so watch for us and come and say G'day if you see us.

[rzrbckr]

Scott, those reports you have seen of bulletproof if were on older designed engines. Particularly, the Ford 6.7L diesel in more current trucks, are extremely reliable. No bulletproofing needed. I can tell you from experience, if you buy a newer model you’ll be just fine and much better off than the Japanese brands. Even the older models with the “bulletproofing” already done are super reliable now that the corrections have been made. Don’t be afraid of the American brands because of some past issues.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Scott, those reports you have seen of bulletproof if were on older designed engines. Particularly, the Ford 6.7L diesel in more current trucks, are extremely reliable. No bulletproofing needed. I can tell you from experience, if you buy a newer model you’ll be just fine and much better off than the Japanese brands. Even the older models with the “bulletproofing” already done are super reliable now that the corrections have been made. Don’t be afraid of the American brands because of some past issues.
Yes, that might be an option, but unfortunately for this adventure, the budget doesn't extend to a new truck. We have budgeted around $20K-$25K for a truck and that puts us squarely into the "engines need bulletproofing" range. Also trying to find a used truck that has been bulletproofed already? On the used market, they're probably one out of a hundred. That narrows the selection quite a bit.

Remember that I'm trying to find a truck from 12,000 miles away and when I get there, I'll have about a week to find, evaluate and purchase/register a truck. If I get it wrong ... How long does it take for a mechanic to source and replace an engine, and how much will that cost?

I would like to hear more details on your thoughts of "much better off than the Japanese brands" because my research has shown otherwise, particularly WRT the age of the trucks we are looking at.

I also forgot to mention in my earlier post that whereas with the Ford and Chevy 1/2 tonners, you have to pick just the right configuration to get the towing weight we need, with the Tundra, you only have to select one with the 5.7L engine. They all have the tow kit already. Even though the tow kit was an "option" on these trucks, I haven't come across one in the used truck fleet that doesn't have it, even in the base model. The effect of that is to expand the population of candidates.

And finally, with the Fords and Chevys, the 1/2 ton trucks had (depending on configuration) anywhere from about 6,500# max to about 9,000# max c.f. the Toyota which has 9,000# to 10,400# depending on whether its 4x4, crew cab, Limited model etc etc.

I've downloaded all the manuals for all the trucks in the year models we can afford and looked up the specs on them to figure out which model we would need. I've researched the problems with all the trucks through the relevant databases. The numbers tell the tale.

I would have preferred an American truck, but they just don't seem to stack up. I understand brand loyalty, and there's an element of that in our choice also.

But again, thanks for your inputs and maybe we'll catch up and chew on this some more over a couple of coldies in some campground somewhere... Maybe you can also help me understand why American trucks (and this includes the Toyotas made in the US) are so lowly rated. With the V8 powered 150 class trucks being rated 1/2 ton, and my 4 cylinder Hilux here is rated at 3/4 ton???

[rzrbckr]

Scott those truck ratings are out of date for US trucks. Years ago, they were to depict how much a truck could carry. 1/2 ton truck~1000# of cargo. Now days, it’s more an arbitrary number as trucks typically carry much more than there designations. Half ton trucks typically can carry anywhere from 1500-3000 us pounds now a days. 1 ton trucks can carry up to around 7000 us pounds. Of course, all that depends on configuration.

If you make it through Texas, I’d love to share a few more of our American idiosyncrasies with ya over some cold brews. Give me a shout.

[sourdough]

OP, help me get this. The title of the post was for F250 or Chevy 2500. Your last posts seem to say you are looking at 1/2 tons. Are you looking at smaller trailers to fit their capabilities?

The size difference in the trailer you can have with the 3/4 vs the 1/2 is quite a lot depending on what 3/4 or 1/2 you get. A Tundra 1/2 ton cannot stack up to a 3/4 ton of any variety. The newer ones are getting better (at least a bigger body) but still aren't comparable to a 3/4 ton.

If you are comparing 1/2 tons to 1/2 tons the Toyota is in the mix. Having owned Toyota's, Ford's, Chevy's and Dodge/Ram's I can attest that Toyota made a much tighter (better) quality vehicle that the American brands several years ago. I used to marvel that my Toyota would have 50k on it, zero leaks or dust collected because of it in the engine compartment, Zero oil usage at 3k (back when without synthetic). Now, both my Toyota and Ram run synthetic, change at 5k, use zero oil and, the thing that always amazed me about Toyota, the oil was still almost clear after several thousand miles....now, so is the Ram.

IF the trucks are rated equally for towing, AND you pick a trailer that is within those parameters for a 1/2 ton, I would have no problem going with a Toyota. The problem with buying a used one is if you get an older model, with the smaller body style and diminished capabilities from yesteryear, they do not stack up to a regular American 1/2 ton - forget "towing capability" - look at all the numbers, plus, the aesthetics for trying to drive in it.....the older ones are SMALL inside.

As a side note; little brother always pulled with a Toyota Tundra...3 of them. Bought his last trailer and went with a Ford F250 diesel; said he loved his Toyotas but the Ford was night and day better.

[B-O-B'03]

I went to www.cargurus.com (https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337) and checked the boxes for your criteria, 123 listing popped up, take your budget to 25K and the count more than doubles to 279.

There are many other auto listing sites, where have you been looking?

The blowing spark plug problem was in the older model, single overhead cam, 5.4L engine, last produced in 2010.

My cousin, who sells school buses for a living, puts close to 100K miles a year on his F150s and keeps them 3 - 4 years. He has never had any major problems with any of them.

Enjoy whatever you end up with and have fun touring this great country.

Cheers,

-Brian

[FlyingAroundRV]

Scott those truck ratings are out of date for US trucks. Years ago, they were to depict how much a truck could carry. 1/2 ton truck~1000# of cargo. Now days, it’s more an arbitrary number as trucks typically carry much more than there designations. Half ton trucks typically can carry anywhere from 1500-3000 us pounds now a days. 1 ton trucks can carry up to around 7000 us pounds. Of course, all that depends on configuration.

If you make it through Texas, I’d love to share a few more of our American idiosyncrasies with ya over some cold brews. Give me a shout.
rzrbckr: We will definitely be heading to Texas. Dallas is our first point of entry and where we intend to start our search for a truck. We will be there at the end of May. Let's sit down over a couple of coldies and chew the fat about trucks and trailers. ... And maybe airplanes if you're interested.
Thnx for the tips about payload capacities. I wasn't aware of that.

Sourdough:
Our TT has a max weight (loaded) of 7600#. From the numbers it looks like (and is advertised as ) 1/2 ton towable. In fact, I met people on the road with an almost identical sized trailer and a F150. They said their rig worked really well.
Where the 250 came about was because I wasn't confident I could find a Ford or Chev in the used truck market with just the right configuration to tow that weight. If you look through the truck brochures and manuals you'll see what I mean. So I opted to go the next step up. Unfortunately, because of the budget, that put me into an older truck with higher mileage. Then, as I mentioned, I started researching reliability. Then that started to restrict engine types and year models. It may seem like I'm being over picky, but I have to have a reliable truck as I don't have a base to work from, or retreat to if the truck fails. Also, my time in the US each year will be finite and I'd rather not spend it stuck in a campground waiting for repairs.

Brian: Thanks for that. CarGurus is definitely one of the sites I have been looking at. Also Autotrader, Carmax, Carsforsale, Craigslist, Truecar, Carfax (Yes they have cars listed as well as reports!) KBB, Autolist, Edmonds and Cars.com. All that in addition to looking directly at dealership websites.
For reliability info, I've looked at Carcomplaints.com, the NHTSA website, the internet in general and of course, YouTube.
The amount of info available online is astonishing sometimes.

Thanks also for your encouragement.

[FlyingAroundRV]

OP, help me get this. The title of the post was for F250 or Chevy 2500. Your last posts seem to say you are looking at 1/2 tons. Are you looking at smaller trailers to fit their capabilities?

The size difference in the trailer you can have with the 3/4 vs the 1/2 is quite a lot depending on what 3/4 or 1/2 you get. A Tundra 1/2 ton cannot stack up to a 3/4 ton of any variety. The newer ones are getting better (at least a bigger body) but still aren't comparable to a 3/4 ton.

If you are comparing 1/2 tons to 1/2 tons the Toyota is in the mix. Having owned Toyota's, Ford's, Chevy's and Dodge/Ram's I can attest that Toyota made a much tighter (better) quality vehicle that the American brands several years ago. I used to marvel that my Toyota would have 50k on it, zero leaks or dust collected because of it in the engine compartment, Zero oil usage at 3k (back when without synthetic). Now, both my Toyota and Ram run synthetic, change at 5k, use zero oil and, the thing that always amazed me about Toyota, the oil was still almost clear after several thousand miles....now, so is the Ram.

IF the trucks are rated equally for towing, AND you pick a trailer that is within those parameters for a 1/2 ton, I would have no problem going with a Toyota. The problem with buying a used one is if you get an older model, with the smaller body style and diminished capabilities from yesteryear, they do not stack up to a regular American 1/2 ton - forget "towing capability" - look at all the numbers, plus, the aesthetics for trying to drive in it.....the older ones are SMALL inside.

As a side note; little brother always pulled with a Toyota Tundra...3 of them. Bought his last trailer and went with a Ford F250 diesel; said he loved his Toyotas but the Ford was night and day better.

Danny: Just another note on your post about the toyotas being small inside. LOL, we're used to that. Very few vehicles here are the size of Ameerican vehicles. I fully expect the Tundra to feel a bit like a limosine compared to my HIlux and Mazda CX5 here.
And as a last comment re: Little brother, comparing a 250 diesel to a Tundra is a bit lopsided, don't you think?

[440justin]

FlyingAroundRV

One thing to keep in mind when reviewing the number of compliments on the internet is how many trucks each brand sold. One reason you see fewer Toyota complaints vs Ford/Chevy is due purely on the volume of trucks Ford/Chevy sell compared to Toyota. The more trucks you sell the more might have a problem.

In 2017:
Ford sold 807,379 trucks
Chevy sold 518,188 trucks
Toyota sold 105,399

Just something to think about when looking at the number of compliments on the internet.

As others have said you really need to look at the trailer and the playload of the truck. You must considering toung weight, people, and cargo in the truck in addition to the towing capacity. Keep in mind many Americans overload their trucks and say it does just fine because they don't know any better.

One thing to consider as it sounds you will not be using the truck all year to tow is looking at the gas 250/2500's you will get the high payload numbers at a much lower cost and with fewer issues than lots of the diesel are known for.

Lots to consider, but lots of good people on this site to help you out.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[FlyingAroundRV]

FlyingAroundRV

One thing to keep in mind when reviewing the number of compliments on the internet is how many trucks each brand sold. One reason you see fewer Toyota complaints vs Ford/Chevy is due purely on the volume of trucks Ford/Chevy sell compared to Toyota. The more trucks you sell the more might have a problem.

In 2017:
Ford sold 807,379 trucks
Chevy sold 518,188 trucks
Toyota sold 105,399

Just something to think about when looking at the number of compliments on the internet.

As others have said you really need to look at the trailer and the playload of the truck. You must considering toung weight, people, and cargo in the truck in addition to the towing capacity. Keep in mind many Americans overload their trucks and say it does just fine because they don't know any better.

One thing to consider as it sounds you will not be using the truck all year to tow is looking at the gas 250/2500's you will get the high payload numbers at a much lower cost and with fewer issues than lots of the diesel are known for.

Lots to consider, but lots of good people on this site to help you out.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Re: Relative numbers of trucks on the market vs complaints. Yes, quite right about that and I took that into consideration. The thing that troubled me with the Fords and Chevs though was more the patterns of failures rather than just the numbers of them. That is how I came to know about some of the design faults in the various trucks. Also, the comments by a lot of the people who reported these types of fault (design flaws) indicated that Ford and Chevy were almost completely resistant to acknowledging the problems and had to be dragged "kicking and screaming" by the NHTSA to address the issues. Even then I saw very little willingness on the part of these manufacturers to help customers who's trucks had failed due to design flaws. By the time the manufacturers moved on the issue, the problem trucks were conveniently "out of warranty".

On the other hand, the faults reported for the Tundra seemed to be more varied and suggested "materials and workmanship" problems rather than design flaws.

Re gas vs diesel: What you say is a factor in why I settled on a gas truck rather than diesel. But even looking at gas 250/2500s we were in another price bracket which pushed back the age and mileage of the candidate trucks. So instead of looking at sub 100,000 mile trucks, I was now looking at 8-10 year old trucks with 150,000 miles or more. In the end, there were too many factors in that equation and I decided on a simpler solution. Now that could all go pear-shaped, but the statistics are on my side.

As an interesting aside, the pollution requirements for diesel engines seems to have really put the cat among the pigeons in the vehicle industry. You're no doubt aware of the trouble VW got into for putting a defeat device in their engine control software. I recently saw a documentary that suggested almost all of the other manufacturers are doing it too, specifically BMW and Mercedes. The anti-pollution devices in the Ford trucks seems to be a major source of problems and even engine failures. I was surprised to see that a whole industry has arisen to address the design flaws in the Ford diesels. But Chevy has their own issues as well, such as brake lines that rust out, numerous electrical faults and failing ignition switches etc.

Anyway, thnx for your input also. Happy trails and keep an eye out for us on the road.

[JimQ]

Hi Scott: interesting thread. Good luck with your search and your trip in May. When I was looking to upgrade from my F150 to the 250, I utilized the internet. I noticed that used low mileage trucks were hard to come by. I bought mine at a Ford dealer, one owner, who had bought it there, then traded it in for another new one. The only thing I have done so far is change the oil. I absolutely love the F250. Good luck with your search. Keep us posted. Hope you can make it up to see some of the sights in New England!

[slow]

FWIIW: I settled on a gas F250 because of reliability based on my research at the time. And it was also cheaper than an F150 at the end of the model year.
Continue your research and your opinion on your best option may evolve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlyingAroundRV]

Hi Scott: interesting thread. Good luck with your search and your trip in May. When I was looking to upgrade from my F150 to the 250, I utilized the internet. I noticed that used low mileage trucks were hard to come by. I bought mine at a Ford dealer, one owner, who had bought it there, then traded it in for another new one. The only thing I have done so far is change the oil. I absolutely love the F250. Good luck with your search. Keep us posted. Hope you can make it up to see some of the sights in New England!
Hi Jim:
I think the dealerships run will ahve to wait until I hit the ground in Dallas, but that is defintely in the plans. The only drawback to actually visiting the dealerships is dealing with pesky sales people who want to try to upsell you all the time. I know the work on commissions, but I really appreciate it when a sales rep recognizes a customer who knows what he wants and just works within the parameters rather than trying to wring those few extra bucks out of the wallet carrier.
Thanx also for your encouragement. I'm not sure at this stage when or if we'll make it up into the New England area. I know it's pretty up there and I haven't seen much of it, so you never know. Never say never!

[FlyingAroundRV]

FWIIW: I settled on a gas F250 because of reliability based on my research at the time. And it was also cheaper than an F150 at the end of the model year.
Continue your research and your opinion on your best option may evolve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Slow:
Wow, that's interesting. I don't quite understand how you came to purchase a 250 cheaper than a 150. Don't the model years begin and end at the same time? Or was it that the superceded 250 was cheaper than the next model 150?
In any case it sounds like you got a great deal.
Yes, the research continues...

[JimQ]

Hi Jim:
I think the dealerships run will ahve to wait until I hit the ground in Dallas, but that is defintely in the plans. The only drawback to actually visiting the dealerships is dealing with pesky sales people who want to try to upsell you all the time. I know the work on commissions, but I really appreciate it when a sales rep recognizes a customer who knows what he wants and just works within the parameters rather than trying to wring those few extra bucks out of the wallet carrier.
Thanx also for your encouragement. I'm not sure at this stage when or if we'll make it up into the New England area. I know it's pretty up there and I haven't seen much of it, so you never know. Never say never!

I hear you. I was fortunate that the dealership and salesman I dealt with were very fair and reasonable. Almost felt like it was meant to be. Everything fell into place. Then again, I had a F150 that was in great shape with low miles to use in the negotiation process. Best of Luck to you! Jim

[Dave W]

I've actually read the entire thread with interest. There is one thing that hasn't been brought up and that's the availability to buy parts in the unlikely event that any of the trucks mentioned need repairs. For sure you can go to your local auto parts store and find many of the needed items for the Big Three simply because there are so many more of them. Also, there are lots more dealerships in out of the way places for those Big Three makes. In a 30 mile radius, I can find at least 12 Ford stores, Chevy are the same and Ram, not quite as many. Toyota has 4 or 5 in our 1-1/4 million inhabitants metropolitan area.

Having owned and hauled a 1/2 ton towable, 7500 pound GVW trailer in the past, am not a fan of using that kind of capacity vehicle. First of all, even with a weight distribution hitch, passing semi trucks tends to cause the tail to wag the dog effect --- regardless of the suspension level of the truck. Then there are the brakes. I found that even with a good Prodigy brake controller, it was a case of anticipating stops --- or you wouldn't. You can't depend on electric magnet trailer brakes to stop you - they just aren't that good even with an integrated controller. I moved up to a 3/4 ton and the problems went away to the point I no longer needed the W-D hitch (tho used it)

Next to consider - in the US you will find that most available pickups are auto transmissions. The cooling system on a 1/2 ton may not support that added weight on a 110 degree day in Arizona or Nevada with that auto transmissions the first to 'feel' the heat.

Reliability - I have to say that of all the trucks I have owned, the two Toyotas were by far the worst. The first - blew an engine at ~80K, the second had so much rot that Toyota ended up replacing the frame as well as the bed. There was always something wrong with that truck. I kept it 3 years as a strictly a go to work vehicle. Reliability nowdays is very good on virtually any vehicle you buy, regardless of make.

Obviously, you have to choose what you think is your best choice for your needs. Reliability is one of the criteria - and you do need to do more research as the tow vehicles I usually see in a CG are the US Big Three with a few Expedition/Suburban types thrown in. Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans, etc - dang seldom.

As a note on Ford's 6.7 diesel problems you mentioned. Job 1 trucks had a problem with valve or glow plug breakage on the LH cylinder head. That was corrected within 6 months. I have one of those 'time bombs', but at 109,000 miles, so far, no problem since the truck is 100% stock. They also had an EGT problem which was corrected in 2015 by TSB 14E03 which reprogrammed the PCU. Also. those early trucks if emissions deleted and have a performance chip can cause engine failure.

[dcg9381]

Reliability - I have to say that of all the trucks I have owned, the two Toyotas were by far the worst. The first - blew an engine at ~80K, the second had so much rot that Toyota ended up replacing the frame as well as the bed. There was always something wrong with that truck. I kept it 3 years as a strictly a go to work vehicle. Reliability nowdays is very good on virtually any vehicle you buy, regardless of make..

Generations of automobiles bring different things. I found that the early generations of Toyota full size pickups were underpowered and generally blah.
But prior to that, running from 1985-1990, there isn't an American made product that could touch Toyota in reliability. And their small pickups were and still are - class leading in terms of resale and reliability. I still own a 1988 Toyota 4runner and it had the original 200k motor until I took it out in favor of something more "interesting".

All will rot if salt gets blasted (eventually) past the paint. I don't know that rust is really a design flaw.

Of the big 3 diesels, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them currently. Ford built some real problems (the 6.0L diesel), but they also built the 7.3L diesel which was and still is an amazing reliable motor.

Personally, I bought the dodge 6.7L simply due to the low-RPM nature of the I-6 and the fact that the design had been proven successful. I actually liked how the Ford's motor felt better, but it was significantly more mechanically complicated than the Dodge.

In all honesty, the 2015 Ram HAS spent a fair amount of time in the shop, mainly related to electronics and some engine controls, unfortunately. Apparently it needed to get "sorted out" just like the Keystone. Wasn't ideal, but it's a great towing / luxury truck.

I'm with other posters, I want to tow something that is no more than 75% of the rated capacity of my truck.. Ideally... Even as a weekend kind of guy.

[JRTJH]

Reading through this thread, I guess everyone will come to a conclusion. Some "flow in one direction" some "flow in another direction"... What I see is someone not thoroughly familiar with the US auto market using the internet to "research" problems within the system and using that information to reach decisions affecting the purchase of a vehicle based on that data. And yet we all have heard the saying, "It's got to be true, I read it on the internet".....

I don't want this to come across in a negative manner, but parts of it may well seem that way. So here goes:

Much of what I see being posted is a series of "Oh my, what have we done?" kind of knee-jerk response to the "horror stories" that emerge on the internet. Government agency "hysteria" and the "kicking and screaming" by auto manufacturers to solve "problems with Ford and Chevy" illustrate that. Yet the mention of Toyota's accelerator problem of 5 years ago isn't mentioned. If I remember correctly, that was a "reluctant Toyota who refused to acknowledge responsibility for the death and disfigurement of hundreds of people" that was caused by an inherent problem with their accelerator linkage design.... So, as far as I know, few manufacturers "willingly run to a recall" without knowing exactly what and how many vehicles are included. ALL vehicles are subject to failure, to recall and to "oops" kind of manufacturing processes. That has changed dramatically in the past decade and really isn't an issue on trucks built in the last 5-10 years. Yes they do have problems, but for each one that does, hundreds even thousands don't.

Now, the "trailer towing package" is a "hit and miss and not on all trucks" comment.... I'll speak to Ford Superduty gas models from 2011-2016 (the last generation of truck produced by Ford. ALL of them come equipped with a 6.2L gas engine and the heavy duty towing package. That includes HD cooling, HD 6 speed transmission, 3.73 rear axle ratio, factory equipped brake control, trailer sway control, factory equipped 2" (or 2.5") receiver and anti-skid braking. There is no "higher trailer towing package" available for purchase. Granted there is a "fifth wheel towing package" which is the bed pucks for a fifth wheel hitch and there is a "Camper/towing package" which is an upgraded suspension system, but does not increase any towing capacity, it is aimed at "carrying a cabover camper" and does not increase the ability to tow a conventional travel trailer. All F250's in that generation are equipped to tow a conventional travel trailer up to 12,500 pounds.

As for price, the first post in this thread indicated "a crew or extended cab truck, short/medium WB, Flex fuel, Tow package, XLT or higher model (Ford, or equivalent Chev), Any color except black, 100,000 miles or less, up to $20K (neg)". I can locate at least 50 such F250 superduty extended cab trucks in the Northern Michigan area. Most are at dealerships, start with 2011 models around 19000 and go up from there. Many are less than 50,000 miles and ALL of them come equipped, ready to tow any travel trailer weighing less than 12,500 pounds. There is no "search for a properly equipped truck". With the exception of special order, commercial/fleet vehicles, they all are "properly equipped".

That's not the situation with half ton trucks, with that series, yes, you'll have to search for equipment that meets your needs, many (maybe even most) will fall short and won't be suitable for towing.

So, with a 3/4 ton (from Ford or Chevy) you won't find a truck not "properly equipped" and in the half ton market, you probably will find that up to 75% won't meet your requirements.

I used the NADA price guide http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2013/Ford/F250-Super-Duty-V8/Supercab-XLT-2WD/Values for the Dallas area (ZIP Code 75215) to get these values for a F250 extended cab 4x2 6.2L gas engine truck with less than 50,000 miles:

2011: clean tradein $16,075 average retail $19,275
2012: clean tradein $16,500 average retail $19,775
2013: clean tradein $18,000 average retail $21,400

I then did a search for vehicles in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and there are hundreds available. Obviously many of them are from individual owners and may be questionably reliable, but many of them are being sold on dealership used car lots. With so many available, I'd have to question why "settle" on a marginally sized vehicle from any of the truck manufacturers? All of the 3/4 ton vehicles are already properly equipped and available within the price range with half the mileage stipulated in the original post.....

No need to reply, it's not my money and I'm not buying the truck, but I honestly think there's a "buyer's remorse" or "shopper's remorse" starting to take hold. The "fear of the unknown" is always there, especially with such a large change of lifestyle and the significant investment that comes with it. But, the "fear of an inferior vehicle" shouldn't be one of those factors. If you buy a truck that's "up to the task" from any of the manufacturers, you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you "go small, based on past experience with a manufacturer's products from another continent" you may find that it's a mistake, not because of the manufacturer, but because it's "too small or not properly equipped"....

[slow]

Slow:

Wow, that's interesting. I don't quite understand how you came to purchase a 250 cheaper than a 150. Don't the model years begin and end at the same time? Or was it that the superceded 250 was cheaper than the next model 150?

In any case it sounds like you got a great deal.

Yes, the research continues...



A properly optioned F150 would have to be ordered and would still have had a lower payload than the F250 sitting on the western Canada distribution lot for 7 months. Dealer wanted the sale at the end of March and I read the manufactured date on the print out and therefore understood my bargaining position. Gave a low ball offer and it was accepted.

So yes the model years differed between the two models.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FlyingAroundRV]

Reading through this thread, I guess everyone will come to a conclusion. Some "flow in one direction" some "flow in another direction"... What I see is someone not thoroughly familiar with the US auto market using the internet to "research" problems within the system and using that information to reach decisions affecting the purchase of a vehicle based on that data. And yet we all have heard the saying, "It's got to be true, I read it on the internet".....

I don't want this to come across in a negative manner, but parts of it may well seem that way. So here goes:

Much of what I see being posted is a series of "Oh my, what have we done?" kind of knee-jerk response to the "horror stories" that emerge on the internet. Government agency "hysteria" and the "kicking and screaming" by auto manufacturers to solve "problems with Ford and Chevy" illustrate that. Yet the mention of Toyota's accelerator problem of 5 years ago isn't mentioned. If I remember correctly, that was a "reluctant Toyota who refused to acknowledge responsibility for the death and disfigurement of hundreds of people" that was caused by an inherent problem with their accelerator linkage design.... So, as far as I know, few manufacturers "willingly run to a recall" without knowing exactly what and how many vehicles are included. ALL vehicles are subject to failure, to recall and to "oops" kind of manufacturing processes. That has changed dramatically in the past decade and really isn't an issue on trucks built in the last 5-10 years. Yes they do have problems, but for each one that does, hundreds even thousands don't.

Now, the "trailer towing package" is a "hit and miss and not on all trucks" comment.... I'll speak to Ford Superduty gas models from 2011-2016 (the last generation of truck produced by Ford. ALL of them come equipped with a 6.2L gas engine and the heavy duty towing package. That includes HD cooling, HD 6 speed transmission, 3.73 rear axle ratio, factory equipped brake control, trailer sway control, factory equipped 2" (or 2.5") receiver and anti-skid braking. There is no "higher trailer towing package" available for purchase. Granted there is a "fifth wheel towing package" which is the bed pucks for a fifth wheel hitch and there is a "Camper/towing package" which is an upgraded suspension system, but does not increase any towing capacity, it is aimed at "carrying a cabover camper" and does not increase the ability to tow a conventional travel trailer. All F250's in that generation are equipped to tow a conventional travel trailer up to 12,500 pounds.

As for price, the first post in this thread indicated "a crew or extended cab truck, short/medium WB, Flex fuel, Tow package, XLT or higher model (Ford, or equivalent Chev), Any color except black, 100,000 miles or less, up to $20K (neg)". I can locate at least 50 such F250 superduty extended cab trucks in the Northern Michigan area. Most are at dealerships, start with 2011 models around 19000 and go up from there. Many are less than 50,000 miles and ALL of them come equipped, ready to tow any travel trailer weighing less than 12,500 pounds. There is no "search for a properly equipped truck". With the exception of special order, commercial/fleet vehicles, they all are "properly equipped".

That's not the situation with half ton trucks, with that series, yes, you'll have to search for equipment that meets your needs, many (maybe even most) will fall short and won't be suitable for towing.

So, with a 3/4 ton (from Ford or Chevy) you won't find a truck not "properly equipped" and in the half ton market, you probably will find that up to 75% won't meet your requirements.

I used the NADA price guide http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2013/Ford/F250-Super-Duty-V8/Supercab-XLT-2WD/Values for the Dallas area (ZIP Code 75215) to get these values for a F250 extended cab 4x2 6.2L gas engine truck with less than 50,000 miles:

2011: clean tradein $16,075 average retail $19,275
2012: clean tradein $16,500 average retail $19,775
2013: clean tradein $18,000 average retail $21,400

I then did a search for vehicles in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and there are hundreds available. Obviously many of them are from individual owners and may be questionably reliable, but many of them are being sold on dealership used car lots. With so many available, I'd have to question why "settle" on a marginally sized vehicle from any of the truck manufacturers? All of the 3/4 ton vehicles are already properly equipped and available within the price range with half the mileage stipulated in the original post.....

No need to reply, it's not my money and I'm not buying the truck, but I honestly think there's a "buyer's remorse" or "shopper's remorse" starting to take hold. The "fear of the unknown" is always there, especially with such a large change of lifestyle and the significant investment that comes with it. But, the "fear of an inferior vehicle" shouldn't be one of those factors. If you buy a truck that's "up to the task" from any of the manufacturers, you'll be fine. On the other hand, if you "go small, based on past experience with a manufacturer's products from another continent" you may find that it's a mistake, not because of the manufacturer, but because it's "too small or not properly equipped"....
John:
OK, Brilliant! This is the kind of feedback that is really useful. You're right, I am doing this over the internet as a matter of necessity. I have to admit being thoroughly spooked by the problems in the Ford trucks (particularly), which headed me off in the direction of the Toyota which I have experience with.
I also have to admit that some of the advice I was given and my own personal margins were at odds with going with the 1/2 ton truck.
So long story short, thank you for that input. As a result, I will take a closer look at the 250s again. I still have a lot of time to figure this out as I won't be in the US until May.

[JRTJH]

It is frightening (at least) and terrifying (for most) to make any major purchase decisions "in the blind"... I am glad I'm not in your shoes, but have been there in the past. We bought a Mercedes in Germany while we were still in the US. It was not a part of the "fly, drive then ship it home" program, rather we bought it from a German dealer (through a US dealer) built to German specs, not eligible to be imported into the US. Strictly a German automobile, bought in Germany, sight unseen and with much hope we hadn't made a bad choice. As it turned out, it was probably one of the best decisions we made about that tour overseas. So, I understand your concern and your "fear of the unknown"....

That said, the spark plug problems you read about, were found on the Triton engine line. That was the previous engine family, not the current (2011 - present) engine lineup. The 6.2l found in the SuperDuty family has 16 spark plugs, flex fuel capability and is "claimed to have" the most torque of any factory installed engine in the class trucks. We had a 2013 and pulled a 8,000 pound fifth wheel with a 2000 pound boat behind that and we never had any issues with feeling "underpowered" or "outclassed".... There are none of the spark plug issues on the 6.2L engine. Incidentally, the 2011-2016 gas trucks use the same transmission as the diesel engines, a testament to their solid construction and durability.

It sounds like I'm producing a Ford commercial, but that's not what I'm trying to convey. Rather any of the Ford, GM or RAM trucks in the 250/2500 class would fit your needs and all of the XLT and higher trim Fords come equipped to tow. I can't say that "with certainty" on the GM or RAM. I am not familiar with whether they are equipped "standard" with brake controller or not, but otherwise, they also should meet your needs.

There's only a certain amount of "work" you can do before you have "feet on US soil".... so prepare, but don't make any firm decisions until you actually put "eyes on the truck and butt in the seat".... I would hope it never happens, but there are some businesses that might seek to take advantage of the situation, so remain vigilant.

As a footnote, remember that Toyota Australia is not the same company as Toyota US. They may share the same "parent company" but each is as different as is Ford Australia and Ford US.....

[dcg9381]

If I remember correctly, that was a "reluctant Toyota who refused to acknowledge responsibility for the death and disfigurement of hundreds of people" that was caused by an inherent problem with their accelerator linkage design....

I don't disagree with that (necessarily), but I'll point to Ford and the Pinto, which was a case study in engineering ethics (for me) years later. A bunch of managers sat around and made the business decision that it was cheaper to pay off a few fatalities than recall however-many Pintos Ford had sold. Wrong answer ethically... And turned out to be the wrong answer for the business. Nasa had similar screw ups with the Challenger.

There was - and probably still is, some decent money to be made in transporting rust used cars/trucks from Texas to Michigan. I spend some time in both states and I often ask myself in the summer (in Michigan) - "where did all the trucks go?".


I think there are LOTS of options out there for the OP - across brands and across price ranges...

[FlyingAroundRV]

John:
I'l have to have a look again at the search criteria you used. When I plugged in what I wanted (post 2011 model) and the other criteria into CarsGuru, I came up with a total of 4 trucks within 150 miles of Dallas!
In my mind, that's not a large enough candidate list to ensure that we can find a truck that won't turn into a hand grenade.
Sum Ting Wong I thinks.

[JRTJH]

GM is facing much the same with their ignition switch recall. They downplayed the problem, apparently "fudged a few numbers" and tried to keep it low key, but the problem (or potential for a problem) exploded before they could finalize their process. There for about 6 months, it seemed like GM was announcing a new major recall nearly every week. I was concerned last summer whether they would survive the cost and remain viable...

Ford/Firestone/Bridgestone and the Explorer tire recall is another of the "try despirately to hide the problem recalls that failed to stay "covered up"....

On a "global scale", I'm not sure if VW, Chrysler/Fiat, Mercedes and others (Ford included) are going to be able to explain away the diesel emissions allegations or not. So yes, there's still a lot of "corporate ethics vs corporate profits" that gets weighed behind the closed boardroom doors that we'll never know about.

[JRTJH]

John:
I'l have to have a look again at the search criteria you used. When I plugged in what I wanted (post 2011 model) and the other criteria into CarsGuru, I came up with a total of 4 trucks within 150 miles of Dallas!
In my mind, that's not a large enough candidate list to ensure that we can find a truck that won't turn into a hand grenade.
Sum Ting Wong I thinks.

You might want to expand your search beyond CarsGuru.

Here's Craigslist: https://dallas.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=ford+f-250+super+duty&min_auto_year=2011&max_auto_year=2013&auto_fuel_type=1

Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=21115&mkId=20015&page=1&perPage=20&prMx=20000&rd=50&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&yrId=47272&yrId=39723&yrId=34923&zc=75202

[FlyingAroundRV]

You might want to expand your search beyond CarsGuru.

Here's Craigslist: https://dallas.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=ford+f-250+super+duty&min_auto_year=2011&max_auto_year=2013&auto_fuel_type=1

Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=21115&mkId=20015&page=1&perPage=20&prMx=20000&rd=50&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&yrId=47272&yrId=39723&yrId=34923&zc=75202
Of course, but... I've found that CarsGuru is fairly representative of the market and a lot of the vehicles are listed on multiple sites. Maybe that's how you got so many results?

[B-O-B'03]

rzrbckr: We will definitely be heading to Texas. Dallas is our first point of entry and where we intend to start our search for a truck. We will be there at the end of May. Let's sit down over a couple of coldies and chew the fat about trucks and trailers. ... And maybe airplanes if you're interested...

I am a couple of suburbs north of Dallas, let me know you you are around... I could definitely be talked into tilting back a little of the Scottish nectar and chewing some fat :)

-Brian

[FlyingAroundRV]

I am a couple of suburbs north of Dallas, let me know you you are around... I could definitely be talked into tilting back a little of the Scottish nectar and chewing some fat :)

-Brian
Brian:
OK, thanks heaps for that. The truck search is widening now with the (re)addition of the 250s. I will contact you time permitting and we'll tilt a few "adult beverages" down the neck, and speak of thing trucks, trailers and airplanes ... and boats too! (He who dies with the most toys, wins!)

John:
After doing some more searching and re-looking at your post, I think I figured out why you came up with so many more trucks than I did. In your post you said
"Most are at dealerships, start with 2011 models around 19000 and go up from there. ..."
But if you restrict the price to, say $25,000 you'll find that the population of 250s in that age and mileage range goes down, way down to about 3-4 trucks.
My problem with that size population is that by the time you get through all the dealer tricks such as Bait Pricing, non-existent trucks ("We sold that truck just 5 minutes ago") and the trucks with rusted out chassis that have been driven on salted roads for 7 years, and the ones that "look good in pictures", your population of candidates just about disappears.
Still, you have got me to re-think my choices and come at this from a new perspective, and again I thank you for that.

[sourdough]

My son has sold cars in the DFW area for decades. I've got a call into him so I can check out what you are looking for and get his feedback. He deals in all kinds of vehicles, from Ferrari's to pickups, new and used.

Personally I think you need to be looking at the 250s but that is your call. You've also got to realize that what is there now has absolutely nothing to do with what will be there in May - that is part of your dilemma. In your situation I don't see how you rule out the dealerships unless you are going to find a truck now, pay for it and pay to store it. You also have to be very careful to not "over analyze" this or let "mountains of minutia" bog you down until you can't get, or find, anything. I promise there is a truck out there for you.....it's TX.

[JRTJH]

Danny hit on a topic I've been thinking about since my first post in this thread. You're looking for a vehicle "now" and wanting to check it out and decide if you want it in May. That's simply not going to happen in today's volatile used car market. It might work with a $200K luxury car, that the owner will hold it for 2 or 3 months so you can check it out, but that won't happen with a $20K truck. First butt with the deposit is going to drive it home, so unless you want to "buy a pig in a poke" sight unseen, what you're looking at now is only a "fair representation of what you'll likely find in May".... I can't speak for Dallas/Ft Worth, but in Alexandria, LA (300 miles away) after a used truck is taken in trade, once it sits on the lot for a couple of weeks, if there's no interest, it goes to the auction where it's wholesaled off to the highest bidder.

So, looking at trucks currently for sale is probably going to be 75% to 90% different in 2 or 3 weeks, and essentially "unrecognizable" in May.

You can search the web, get an "idea" of what you may encounter, but those trucks will be long gone by the time you get your passport stamped at DFW.

[FlyingAroundRV]

My son has sold cars in the DFW area for decades. I've got a call into him so I can check out what you are looking for and get his feedback. He deals in all kinds of vehicles, from Ferrari's to pickups, new and used.

Personally I think you need to be looking at the 250s but that is your call. You've also got to realize that what is there now has absolutely nothing to do with what will be there in May - that is part of your dilemma. In your situation I don't see how you rule out the dealerships unless you are going to find a truck now, pay for it and pay to store it. You also have to be very careful to not "over analyze" this or let "mountains of minutia" bog you down until you can't get, or find, anything. I promise there is a truck out there for you.....it's TX.
Danny:
Wow, thanks for the offer of help via your son!
What you say is true about what is there now won't be the same in May, and I'm really trying to just get a handle on what to buy and more importantly, what NOT to buy. While it might seem that I'm over analyzing this (If a thing's worth doing, it's worth overdoing) I'm actually not. Doing the research has exposed a lot of pitfalls I could have stumbled into had I not done this. I've made a few mistakes and a few wrong assumptions already, but by keeping at it, I'me getting a clearer picture every day. I'm also becoming more confident that I will (sort of) know what I'm doing when I go truck shopping. At least I'm beyond the stage of "That's a pretty truck. Let's buy that." so far. As I mentioned before, I have time on my side and lots of internet bandwidth to research and discuss this.

I'm blown away by the help I've been given on this site, particularly through this thread. In retrospect, getting input here is way more valuable than getting it from a forum dedicated to the specific trucks under consideration. In a dedicated truck forum, I'd be communicating with adherents of the brand and wouldn't get a broader perspective.

Thank you all who've had an input to this discussion. It has been (is being) most helpful. I am willing to accept advice, not necessarily ALL advice, but that which seems to make sense to me and coincides with our needs. So again, many thanks.

[JimQ]

Scott: you found an awesome site with GREAT folks. I'm thankful I found it when I did as I have learned so much. I have a feeling everything is going to work out fine for you and your trip to the states is going to be awesome. In May, there will be a truck that will fit your needs. PS: I checked out a couple of your videos on YouTube, very cool!

[Dave W]

Scott - another place to look is ebay. Since a pickup is a way of life in Texas (even my Scottish SIL has one) there is exactly what you want there and at dealership stores. When I was looking for my '11 and found absolutely nothing locally for several months, found several in Texas that were exactly what I wanted. Luckily, the dealership that I had bought the previous one at had one just arrive on trade when it was needed for the new 5er.

[gearhead]

Fortunately you will be looking for a truck in TEXAS! The pickup truck capital of the world. LOL
I would also try to find a body shop near the dealer to have a used truck inspected for previous body damage. Clear it with the dealer that the inspector can do that on-site. The dealer will probably advertise a "clear" CARFAX background which really isn't very trustworthy.
Just me, I would eliminate all this anguish and rent a Class C motorhome.

[travelin texans]

Fortunately you will be looking for a truck in TEXAS! The pickup truck capital of the world. LOL
I would also try to find a body shop near the dealer to have a used truck inspected for previous body damage. Clear it with the dealer that the inspector can do that on-site. The dealer will probably advertise a "clear" CARFAX background which really isn't very trustworthy.
Just me, I would eliminate all this anguish and rent a Class C motorhome.

You'll have to have a sack full of money to rent a class C for several months, not to mention less room, less fuel mileage, unless driving 2 vehicles trying to get around sightseeing. Plus once finished you'd have no problems selling the truck, but used rvs are worthless to every one but the owner.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Fortunately you will be looking for a truck in TEXAS! The pickup truck capital of the world. LOL
I would also try to find a body shop near the dealer to have a used truck inspected for previous body damage. Clear it with the dealer that the inspector can do that on-site. The dealer will probably advertise a "clear" CARFAX background which really isn't very trustworthy.
Just me, I would eliminate all this anguish and rent a Class C motorhome.
Funny you should mention renting a class c. That is what we did last year, with a view to buying a used one. In the end we decided to go the TT and truck route instead of the class C.
This is the video of that amazing trip.
https://youtu.be/gjH9otEhIWI

[Frank G]

For what it is worth, in 2016 we purchased a 2013 F250 XLT extended cab 4x4 with the 6.2 gas and 26,000 on the odometer. Towed a 35ft toyhauler 8K empty and 10.5K loaded. The truck was a "beast"! Traded it in a year with 46K on it for a Diesel and a fifth wheel. Loved the truck, solid performer, would do it again. Think we paid 24 and got 19 in the trade.

Good Luck

[notanlines]

For what this might be worth, I got on CruiseAmerica.com and filled in the following info: Medium size class C, four months of rental, pick up and drop in Texas, 12,200 miles allowed, no extras like dishes or linen. Total cost including that pesky sales tax? $20,322.00 Payable on pickup.

[FlyingAroundRV]

For what this might be worth, I got on CruiseAmerica.com and filled in the following info: Medium size class C, four months of rental, pick up and drop in Texas, 12,200 miles allowed, no extras like dishes or linen. Total cost including that pesky sales tax? $20,322.00 Payable on pickup.
Yep, totally. We rented one for a month. Because we are international, we had unlimited mileage, but the rental cost was NOT cheap. Still, we enjoyed our trip enough that it convinced us that RVing is something we want to do.
It would be interesting to find out how long those things take to pay for themselves on the rental market. Not long, I wouldn't think.
And yes, we had to buy our own linen and towels and dishes.

[Frank G]

Can someone give the OP information on how to avoid the Hurricane flooded vehicles that were released for sale. :facepalm: Or were they all scrapped and destroyed???:nonono:

[rzrbckr]

Can someone give the OP information on how to avoid the Hurricane flooded vehicles that were released for sale. :facepalm: Or were they all scrapped and destroyed???:nonono:

As far as I know, they were all scraped. Possibly for parts and partially for recycle. There were lots set up all over Houston to process.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Can someone give the OP information on how to avoid the Hurricane flooded vehicles that were released for sale. :facepalm: Or were they all scrapped and destroyed???:nonono:
Frank: Thanks for bringing that up. I would like to see some opinions on this also. I had been wondering about this as well. I have been avoiding vehicles particularly from south Louisiana for that reason. Although I believe that they would have to show "Salvaged" or "rebuilt" or something like that on their title.

In any case, I live in an area that floods from time to time and anything that has gone under floodwater is instantly identifiable by the smell! There are other telltale signs a vehicle has been submerged as well. There will be surface rust and corrosion in places you wouldn't normally expect to get wet, like inside the cabin.

Where I live, a lot of 4WDs get driven on the beach which completely ruins their resale value. We are aware of the signs of this also and avoid such vehicles like the plague. I imagine the vehicles in the North of the US where they salt the roads in winter would have the same problems and symptoms. This is why I'm restricting my vehicle searches to the southern states.

[ctbruce]

I live in Missouri and have lived there or Illinois my entire life. We have always bought new vehicles for at least the last 25 years l have never had any problems with rust on ours. Never. I don't think that I am an exception. US cars are much better made than they were in the '70's. You may be limiting yourself from looking at some very fine trucks. Just a thought. YMMV, and that's ok.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[travelin texans]

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/6484950077.html
I know this is more than you want/need, but had to give it a try!
Willing to do a package deal, truck & rv for $95 k.
Truck is a '13 GMC Denali 3500 DRW with Duramax/Allison, 115k miles, B&W turnover with 18k Companion 5th wheel hitch, rear seat entertainment system, sprayed bedliner w/ toolbox, truck is loaded.
Just thought it was worth mentioning.

[FlyingAroundRV]

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/rvs/6484950077.html
I know this is more than you want/need, but had to give it a try!
Willing to do a package deal, truck & rv for $95 k.
Truck is a '13 GMC Denali 3500 DRW with Duramax/Allison, 115k miles, B&W turnover with 18k Companion 5th wheel hitch, rear seat entertainment system, sprayed bedliner w/ toolbox, truck is loaded.
Just thought it was worth mentioning.
Hey, thanks for the offer, but yeah it is way more than we need or have budgeted for. As we are retired, this project is totally funded from our savings, so penny pinching's the theme.
But thanks for thinking of us!

ctBruce: How long do you keep your vehicles for before trading them in?

[ctbruce]

Hey, thanks for the offer, but yeah it is way more than we need or have budgeted for. As we are retired, this project is totally funded from our savings, so penny pinching's the theme.
But thanks for thinking of us!

ctBruce: How long do you keep your vehicles for before trading them in?5 to 6 years usually. We run them through a car wash a couple of times a winter. It works for us. Most around us do the same.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[wiredgeorge]

OP originally said that Flex Fuel capability was on the list. Why? Has anyone actually ever used that stuff? I had a 2013 F150 that was flex fuel capable and the dealer warned me not to use it as it hurt mileage and caused the truck to run hot.

[camperbrian]

[QUOTE=FlyingAroundRV;268685]Hi:
We live in Australia and will be coming to the US in May/June this year (2018) to purchase a new Outback TT and a pickup to tow it with.

Did you research different trailers or just go with this one because it's called an Outback:lol:

[FlyingAroundRV]

Wiredgeorge:
I specified flex fuel mostlt to say that I don't want a diesel, but also to give me the flexibility to use ethanol added fuel if needed. Here in Oz, there are some *budget* stations that only sell ethanol added fuels, but with differing amounts of ethanol. I was thinking if I get caught out in downtown podunk and they only have e-xx fuels, I still want to be able to run it. Normally I choose not to run those fuels in my car or in my plane, although both are rated for it.

CamperBrian:
Funny you should mention that!
In fact our first encounter with an Outback TT was in a campground in TN, and my first reaction was *Harumph!* How dare they!!! Then when we went to the dealer in Elkhart, the first trailer he showed us through was an Outback. I gritted my teeth as I went in the door, took one look at the floor plan and fell in lust. Now I think it's funny and all our friends here go *Harumph!*.

[travelin texans]

Most all off the US large metropolitan cities are required to use ethanol blended fuels up to 10%, which equates to about a 10% drop in fuel mileage. Some stations have E85 fuel available which is 15% ethanol, which is a few cents cheaper but also will cost you about 15% in fuel economy.
Coming from a career in the oil & gas industry the ethanol is very hard on all the pumping equipment. It cost the company boat loads of funds to upgrade equipment to briefly handle the ethanol.
IMHO the whole ethanol scam was/is just a market for farmers corn crops, not intending to step on farmers toes.

[FlyingAroundRV]

Most all off the US large metropolitan cities are required to use ethanol blended fuels up to 10%, which equates to about a 10% drop in fuel mileage. Some stations have E85 fuel available which is 15% ethanol, which is a few cents cheaper but also will cost you about 15% in fuel economy.
Coming from a career in the oil & gas industry the ethanol is very hard on all the pumping equipment. It cost the company boat loads of funds to upgrade equipment to briefly handle the ethanol.
IMHO the whole ethanol scam was/is just a market for farmers corn crops, not intending to step on farmers toes.
Is there any non-ethanol fuel available in the US? On our trip last July, I can't remember much about the gas we bought. I thought we mostly bought ethanol-free gas, but I couldn't swear to that.

[travelin texans]

There are ethanol free stations though few & far between, mostly local mom/pop stores.

[JRTJH]

...Some stations have E85 fuel available which is 15% ethanol, which is a few cents cheaper but also will cost you about 15% in fuel economy.

This is from the "Drive clean California.gov website:

"Ethanol is mostly used in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) which are capable of operating on gasoline, E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), or a mixture of both. E85 should only be used in ethanol-capable FFVs. E85 has about 30% less energy per gallon so the fuel efficiency of a FFV running on ethanol will be 30% less than when it is running on gasoline."

https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/Search_and_Explore/Technologies_and_Fuel_Types/Ethanol_(E85)_Flex_Fuel.php

[Dave W]

I haven't seen an E-85 pump in a station in our area for several years nor anywhere else in the Virginia to Maine area we covered last year.. I'm sure that there are some but the economy is just not there for folks to spend time or dollars for false savings. What bothers me is while in the Midwest, 20% bio diesel is commonly sold at many large 5er accessible stations. My truck will immediately lose a 2-3 miles/gallon, especially while towing. I have actually had folks argue with me that I am wrong but my calculations weren't:nonono:.

[JRTJH]

This is over-simplified and has some generalities that aren't applicable to every type of engine and every type of fuel, but may help explain blended diesel and ethanol "enriched" gas.

It all comes down to whether a specific type of engine can burn a specific type of fuel and how much energy (heat) that engine can produce from the fuel. Some older diesel engines have seals and adhesives that are dissolved by biodiesel, newer engines use different compounds for those seals and adhesives, but the fuel also "burns differently" and produces different byproducts (exhaust gasses) so biodiesel "burns differently" than pure diesel.

Pretty much, fuel "work" is measured in BTU's. That is the measurement of "actual energy" in each fuel type. Some engines are more efficient at getting all the energy out of a gallon while some "waste energy" by not burning/extracting all the available energy out of each gallon burned.

Here is the BTU content of fuel types. You can see that the "average engine will produce more work per gallon of fuel if the fuel has more BTU's, so even before "tweaking the engine" to work best on a specific blend, you can't produce more heat than the fuel contains, so the fewer BTU's the fewer miles per gallon.....

BTU content per gallon:
Diesel: 139,000
Corn Oil: 120,000
Biodiesel 20: 118,300
Ethanol: 76,100
Gasoline: 114,100

Adding/blending fuels with types containing fewer BTU's will decrease the BTU content making the blend less "heat containing" than the pure fossil fuel type.

It's easy to see that adding "recycled restaurant oil" (bio-oil) causes a "compound oil" that has less energy than either type individually. Why that compound can't release all its available energy is something I can't explain here, but biodiesel 20 produces less energy than either of the two types of fuel individually.

So, it's easy to see that to produce "miles per gallon" there's less mileage in ethanol blended gas and also less energy in bio blended diesel fuel.

[shiresoft]

Actually in the case of biodiesel, the vegetable oil is processed so that it is chemically closer to diesel than the source oil. Biodiesel is produced from the source oil through a process called transesterification.

I would avoid directly using vegetable oils in a modern diesel engine (especially recycled vegetable oils) due to the high concentration of "free fatty acids" which can cause internal damage (especially to the injectors). The transesterification process (and associated purification steps) will result in something much more palatable to modern engines (but still not covered by most OEM warrantees).

[wiredgeorge]

Almost all stations in Texas sell gas with 10 percent ethanol. The flex fuel thing refers to 15 percent and no one buys this swill that I know of and it isn't available at many stations anyway. I personally lover ethanol as I own a business rebuilding and selling vintage Japanese motorcycle carburetors and ethanol has been a BOOOOOM for business. Draws water like a magnet which fouls the innards on carburetors after they have set with the stuff in the carb bowls for awhile. Kind of my personal stimulus package! hehehe BTW: Gov. Perry petitioned the fed to allow Texas to NOT use ethanol in gas as the corn used was not available for cattle feed and IS IS IS driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg


Wiredgeorge:
I specified flex fuel mostlt to say that I don't want a diesel, but also to give me the flexibility to use ethanol added fuel if needed. Here in Oz, there are some *budget* stations that only sell ethanol added fuels, but with differing amounts of ethanol. I was thinking if I get caught out in downtown podunk and they only have e-xx fuels, I still want to be able to run it. Normally I choose not to run those fuels in my car or in my plane, although both are rated for it.

[B-O-B'03]

Almost all stations in Texas sell gas with 10 percent ethanol. The flex fuel thing refers to 15 percent and no one buys this swill that I know of and it isn't available at many stations anyway. I personally lover ethanol as I own a business rebuilding and selling vintage Japanese motorcycle carburetors and ethanol has been a BOOOOOM for business. Draws water like a magnet which fouls the innards on carburetors after they have set with the stuff in the carb bowls for awhile. Kind of my personal stimulus package! hehehe BTW: Gov. Perry petitioned the fed to allow Texas to NOT use ethanol in gas as the corn used was not available for cattle feed and IS IS IS driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg

E85 (https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e85.html) is a blend containing 51%-83% ethanol, the rest is gasoline.

The forced induction hot rod guys love it, E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105, and they really don't care about fuel economy, which can be 30% less than gas :D

There are a few stations around Dallas & suburbs that have it.

I get crappy enough mileage with E10, so I think I'll stay away from E85

-Brian

[FlyingAroundRV]

OK, I'm calling thread hijack on the ethanol discussion. I started this as a search for a truck, so I think the discussion about ethanol fuels should start up another thread.

[travelin texans]

E85 (https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e85.html) is a blend containing 51%-83% ethanol, the rest is gasoline.

The forced induction hot rod guys love it, E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105, and they really don't care about fuel economy, which can be 30% less than gas :D

There are a few stations around Dallas & suburbs that have it.

I get crappy enough mileage with E10, so I think I'll stay away from E85

-Brian

I believe you're thinking "methanol", no self respecting hot rodder nor any street rodders would use the corn syrup.

[kfxgreenie]

driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Where is this shortage of corn?