Minor Electrical Issue

[wiredgeorge]

Slide out on my 2002 Cougar 278EFS has 3 lights over sofa & dinette. Two are coming off the top over and one each over the sofa & dinette. The other is on the wall between the two sets of furniture. Fixture on wall doesn't work. Not the bulb so I pulled it out and checked and no 12V. The switch is on the lamp itself and those wires (orange/white hot and white ground) should have power but DO NOT.

I don't think this is a simple fix but not sure where these wires come from. Since the two top lights work, the wiring may come from them and just got disconnected. If anyone knows how the lamp in the center electrical path works, I will take off the top lamps and check. Is there a wiring diagram for my trailer anywhere? TIA wg

(messing around with the trailer; missus headed over to my kiddo's house to help with fixing dinner so I am left to my own devices until this afternoon).

[chuckster57]

Most likely the feed is from the same feed for the ceiling lights. No wiring diagram, so your on your own.

I would pull the ceiling lights and look for loose/corroded connections.

The 12V for the slide comes
Up in one corner or the other, and there is probably a junction box. The wall light wiring may attach at that junction box. Since your home alone, you have time to tear stuff apart LOL.

[wiredgeorge]

I am also thinking of a nice family photo in a frame over the hole in the wall... I guess I will start by looking for the mysterious junction box which I doubt is easy to find. When I give up looking for that, I will take the lights off... was hoping someone had a line on a wiring diagram... thanks.

[JRTJH]

No "publically released" wiring diagrams are available on any Keystone product. If you happen to find one, you'll be a "rich man" if you reproduce it and sell it to other "frustrated owners"..... That said, there is probably one "hot lead" and one "ground" that runs from the wiring loop under the slide, up through the slide framing to the ceiling light closest to the loop, then from there, across the ceiling to the other ceiling light, then from there diagonally to the wall light. So, you'll probably find three wires on each connector in the ceiling lights (incoming, outgoing and fixture) and only two wires in the connectors at the wall light (incoming and fixture).

[PARAPTOR]

Did these lights ever work? or did they just fail? Keep in mind that some fixtures may have switches on them as well as remote switches on the wall. Obviously both have to be on, have heard of people accidentally hitting switch on say fixture by mistake.

I assume you checked for 12V before the switch and not just across the socket (possible faulty switch)

[wiredgeorge]

Pulled the fixture off the wall and check for voltage at wiring after removing the wire nuts. I am a motorcycle mechanic type by trade and understand DC fairly well. Problem is, trailers are made in such a way that trying to figure out wiring is kind of a snipe hunt. I have no idea if the switch is good/bad because if I had power out of the wall, I would have checked the switch but since no voltage, problem is upstream.

[Hodgy]

.

This will be no help to you but I ran across it looking for diagrams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FboDyLjn5sg

There are lots of sites that say they have PDF's for download but you have to register and give them your credit card number, not happening.

Ran across a post on another site that said each and every Keystone, even if it is the same model have the wires run a bit different. I assume the control boards and fuses are standard.

.

[Javi]

Most likely there won't be a junction box... just a splice.. Usually the wiring is under the slide in a flexible plastic wire loom into a hole in the bottom of the slide and then up the wall... check the color of the wiring where it connects to the pigtails for the light fixture... then go under the trailer and fid that plastic loom...

[wiredgeorge]

Javi, Have been up under there already and no loom is visible. The wires are orange/white pos and white neg. They won't run 3 sets of wires up into the area of the problem I would guess so will pull the working two lamps and see if there is a loose wire(s) coming off either that may go to the fall lamp.

[chuckster57]

The 12V wiring has to come from the main frame to the outside corner. Lots of times it’s bundled with an “extension cord” that carries the 110V to the slide. Did you see a screen door spring? That is what keeps the wires in position, or a flat plastic piece with the wires weaved through holes.

[wiredgeorge]

Will take another look tomorrow. I am not going to work and see if I can get this sorted out. Found a couple of the nuts that retain the slide on the loose side and have to get under there and make sure nuts are snugged up.

[wiredgeorge]

OK... YOU WERE RIGHT FOLKS... wiring loom headed up into the trailer and suspended by a long spring. Oddly, I noted there was a 110V type 14 ga. wire tied to the loom. The 14 ga. wire does indeed carry 110V to the slide which lights up the two overhead lights. The orange/white & white wires are the 12V. I am learning wayyyyy too much about camper stuff here. No power at the wire nuts between the RV and slide.

(why the heck would they put 110V lights in an RV?????)

Noted the slides were bone dry and the nuts that retained the slide to its frame were VERY loose so the trip wasn't wasted. Got that fixed. Noted the orange/white wire was spliced into an orange so I went up to the converter box and discovered the 15A fuse that provided dc voltage to the light was blown. Change the fuse and thought all was fixed.... not so quick on the draw there cowboy.

There was now power to the light at the wall. Found the switch was kind of sketchy and a few shots of contact cleaner fixed that issue. Then wired it up and pushed the switch and NADA! Whoa!

Took the bulb out (new 1156 bulb from my vast collection of motorcycle bulbs) and noted there are TWO (double) contacts in the base and of course the single contact 1156 is a non-starter. Both the slots in the bulb holder were at the same level just like an 1156 bulb holder? What the heck is this????

Turns out the bulb holder uses a GE #1076 23W / S8 double contact bayonet AKA BA15D type bulb which (of course) I have never heard of. This is a single filament bulb with dual bayonets on the base (WHY?) The RV supply in Bandera carries them so I guess these are used in similar fixtures on RVs elsewhere. Going to get a new bulb tomorrow as the case seems to be solved. Luckily all the blade fuses in my converter are 15A but I will pick up another pack as you can't carry enough fuses.
Hopefully this will help someone else in the future as it has been frustrating for such a "minor electrical problem"!

[chuckster57]

110V is most likely for the outlet(s) under the dinette. I have a couple of double of double post 12V lights.

[B-O-B'03]

I would be tempted to get LED replacement bulbs... lot less power draw and heat.

LED replacements (https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=1076+led+bulb&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=234398159680&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1633436612838318402&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026834&hvtargid=kwd-14007380977&ref=pd_sl_97v1wbvedm_e)

-Brian

[JRTJH]

I have the same double contact bulbs in the light over the dinette. I changed all of my incandescent bulbs to LED and haven't had a bad bulb or an inop light in 4 years. (Watch, I just jinxed myself)... Anyway, I wouldn't replace it with another incandescent bulb if you use the light much at all. LED is the way to go. As for the ceiling lights, are you sure they are 110 VAC? I'd pull a bulb and double check that. I haven't seen 110 VAC lights in slides for at least the last 20 years. The only 110 is to the outlet on the rear side wall of the slide in ours and it's that way with almost every slide I've seen in the past 10+ years. I'd urge you to pull a cover off one of the lights and verify that they are 110 VAC lights based on the bulb that's installed in the fixture.

Otherwise, you're making progress, sooner or later you'll have your own wiring diagram, at least for one model of one brand of Keystone....

[wiredgeorge]

The two round fixtures inside the slide that are above dinette & sofa ARE 110V and have old school 60W light bulbs.

[Javi]

The two round fixtures inside the slide that are above dinette & sofa ARE 110V and have old school 60W light bulbs.I expect somebody did some changing :D

Javi

[chuckster57]

I expect somebody did some changing :D

Javi

Me too. Haven’t seen 110V bulbs since I was a kid in a 1969 Ideal TT.

[wiredgeorge]

Kind of surprised NO ONE else on this forum has a 2002 model Cougar that could chime in on whether the fixtures use old school 110V bulbs as OEM...

[Javi]

Kind of surprised NO ONE else on this forum has a 2002 model Cougar that could chime in on whether the fixtures use old school 110V bulbs as OEM...Well I can personally testify that all lights were 12v in new trailers from 1979 to 1983 cause I was the make ready guy at the dealership in Waco. I can also say that I have not seen any 110volt lights in any trailer that I've own, used or been in since then; that hadn't been modified for full time park use.

Javi

[JRTJH]

Like Javi, I haven't seen 110 volt lighting in an RV for well over 15 years (unless it was modified by the owner).

One possibility for verifying which was "intended" when it left the factory, would be to look at the wiring in the slide ceiling. Typically (maybe chuckster can verify this if he has access to RVIA standards) all of the 12 volt wiring in travel trailers is single wires that are multistrand, twisted copper wires. All of the 110 volt wiring is ROMEX, solid copper wire.

So, if the wiring in the slide ceiling that supplies power to those "110 VAC lights with old style 60 watt bulbs" is ROMEX, then it may have come from the factory that way. If, however, the wiring in the ceiling is two wires, one orange/white and one white (and they are multistrand individual wires), I'd highly suspect that the original wiring was powered by 12 VDC.

The only exception to the 110 VAC must be ROMEX that I am aware of is the "jumper wiring" that runs from the mobile home connector in the main chassis going to the slide junction box. That is either 12 ga or 14 ga "multistrand" because it bends/flexes with slide movement and ROMEX won't stand up to repeated flexing. I believe the RVIA code requires "multistrand jumpers" for slide AC power.

I can understand why an owner who has his trailer parked on a permanent site would want to remove the 12 VDC fixtures and replace them with 110VAC fixtures to obtain better lighting, but if the trailer is going to be used with battery power, then that renders all lighting in the slide inoperable when "dry camping". If it were mine, the way I camp, I'd want operable lighting when travelling and dry camping, so I'd probably revert to the 12 VDC ceiling lights.

I'd almost bet that the wiring in the slide ceiling is individual, multistrand wires and not ROMEX.

ADDED: Thinking back to 1972 and our JAYCO trailer, we had 110 VAC lighting in the range hood and 12 VDC lighting everywhere else. All of those fixtures used "old style conventional bulbs" but they were 12VDC bulbs and very expensive. I made the mistake of putting one of those 12VDC conventional screwin bulbs in the range hood 110VAC socket and it promptly blew with a loud pop. So, have you verified the power requirement for those "conventional bulbs"??? They may be 12VDC "old style bulbs" that are the same shape and size of today's 110 VAC bulbs. Confusing for sure, but there were (are??) 12 VDC bulbs that look exactly like "standard light bulbs" used in 110 VAC fixtures. Here's one example: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5435/IN-0050A1912V.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg7TZ2Zba1wIVDW5-Ch0-YwOFEAQYAiABEgLcNfD_BwE

[bobbecky]

In our rig, in the large curb side slide, there are two different but similar looking light fixtures, one above the sofa and the other above the dining table. One is 120 volts and the other is 12 volts and both are switched on using a button on the fixture. No idea why they didn't just use 12 volt fixtures in both places. Then there is also a sconce on the wall between the sofa and table that is 120 volts, where all the rest of the sconces in the rig are 12 volts.

[wiredgeorge]

Thanks for all the expertise... this is my first Keystone RV so folks with a long history are very helpful. I am pretty sure the 110V fixtures (one above the dinette and one above the sofa in the same slide out) are factory. The wire feeding them goes from the rear kitchen located converter and is outdoor 14 ga. Romex. It goes from the converter box I guess (would have to pull it out to be sure) around the back to the side near the underside of the slide. It goes into what appears to be an original junction box. The 12V for the wall fixture follows the same route and is in wire loom from where it comes out next to the junction box. I took off the original wire nuts and refasten the wires with yellow wire nuts and used some electrical tape. The 12V wires originally ran under the junction box and I was afraid of fraying so I wire-tied them to the Romex. Took some pics:

[wiredgeorge]

In our rig, in the large curb side slide, there are two different but similar looking light fixtures, one above the sofa and the other above the dining table. One is 120 volts and the other is 12 volts and both are switched on using a button on the fixture. No idea why they didn't just use 12 volt fixtures in both places. Then there is also a sconce on the wall between the sofa and table that is 120 volts, where all the rest of the sconces in the rig are 12 volts.

Geesh... that is about as clear as mud! :lol: Why would mine have TWO AC fixtures up top and one 12V fixture between the pieces of furniture? I think that Keystone buys parts in some quantity and uses them rather than off some master plan. Anyway; got a 1076 bulb and the middle fixture will be lighted up after lunch! Thanks all