Tow Vehicle for 238ML

[faturner]

Good afternoon.

My in-laws just purchased a Passport 238ML to live in while their new home is being built due to Hurricane Harvey. My wife and I will purchase it from them when the house is completed. I need to purchase a tow vehicle. The trailer weight on the sticker inside the door frame says 4009 pounds. I am looking at 2009-2013 Chevy Avalanches withe the factory tow package that is rated for 8100 lbs. Will a half ton truck like this have any problems towing this trailer? Thanks in advance!

[JRTJH]

The question you ask has two answers: Yes and No....

Let me explain: There are several different "options" available on the Avalanche that are necessary for the specific vehicle to meet that 8100 pound capability. Not every Avalanche produced has that towing capability.

Secondly, more than just the tow capacity must be considered. You don't mention the number of people who will be passengers in the Avalanche, you don't indicate any added equipment you'd be carrying in the cab or in the bed of the Avalanche. Since it's a bunkhouse model, there is a potential for you to overload the tow vehicle, even with a 3/4 ton truck, depending on what other cargo and passengers you might add to the mix.

Looking objectively, the trailer shipping weight is 3795, payload is 1605 for a GVW of 5400 pounds. Depending on how the trailer is loaded, the tongue weight will be 10-15% of total weight. That means a range of about 540-810 pounds. Then add to that, 100-150 pounds for a hitch and it's easy to see that, depending on the passenger/cargo load, an Avalanche may not be enough vehicle. That is based, not on the trailer, but on the "other stuff" and passenger load.

Weigh EVERYTHING that you'll be putting in the Avalanche, use a suggested 900 pounds as a "best guess" of what the trailer will "bring to the package" in tongue weight, but you must also add what "you will bring to the package" in the form of passengers, generators, firewood, coolers, tool boxes, bicycles, motorbikes, toys, camping equipment, pets, and any other items you might "throw in the back" when you go camping.

I suppose what I'm saying is, "The Avalanche, if properly equipped is a good match for that trailer, but that depends on how many people you carry with you and what other cargo you put in the bed of the truck and the trailer.

Oh, and welcome to the forum !!!

[earlzach]

I really don't like to tell anyone what to buy as far as vehicle goes. But You cant go wrong with a Hemi powered Crew cab truck. 2010 and up will be fine. they all have the better riding rear coils not leaf springs. I recommend 2013 and up and look for the 8 speed transmission with 3.21 or 3.92 rear. Either will be fine with the 8 speed and the 400hp.
So with that being said I m not going to tell you what to buy! (wink)

[gearhead]

All I can add is you may be able to upgrade the Avalanche a little bit. We had one that was maybe a 2007 or 08. They made some with, I think the 6.0, and I may be dreaming it, but I think they made a 2500 version, but not for long. We had the usual 5.3 with a 3.42 rear axle ratio. Anyway, I had Sour Lake Motors add a factory transmission cooler. The fittings are all there, they just order a kit from GM and installed it just like factory. So if you really want one that doesn't have the cooler you can add it.
But I agree with John, you might be pushing the limits of a half ton. Now if you knew for sure you would only be towing around SE Texas, south LA, etc. and the numbers are all marginal, you "could" be OK. But I would be looking at a crewcab 2500. Good luck with a used truck, looks like all the area used car lots are picked over after the storm.

[gearhead]

All I can add is you may be able to upgrade the Avalanche a little bit. We had one that was maybe a 2007 or 08. They made some with, I think the 6.0, and I may be dreaming it, but I think they made a 2500 version, but not for long. We had the usual 5.3 with a 3.42 rear axle ratio. Anyway, I had Sour Lake Motors add a factory transmission cooler. The fittings are all there, they just order a kit from GM and installed it just like factory. So if you really want one that doesn't have the cooler you can add it.
But I agree with John, you might be pushing the limits of a half ton. Now if you knew for sure you would only be towing around SE Texas, south LA, etc. and the numbers are all marginal, you "could" be OK. But I would be looking at a crewcab 2500. Good luck with a used truck, looks like all the area used car lots are picked over after the storm.

[sourdough]

I agree with gearhead and John; you could easily be stretching an Avalanche. If you do buy a GM you need to get a 3.9x or above rear end (don't know their ratios anymore). I have a friend that owns several GM dealerships and drives an Avalanche. I commented to him one time about throwing an RV on the back and he said "oh no, it's not meant for that. It's a comfortable cruiser that can haul "some stuff".

I am not going to try to sway you on a brand, but, you need a "towing" truck and not a grocery getter. Having owned more 1/2 tons than I can remember, I can say truly that they are not a "towing" truck meant for heavy loads. That, after I finally bought an HD truck and arguing that my 1/2 ton was great on this forum...it wasn't. My trailer is substantially heavier than the one you are describing however.

If you go with a used 1/2 ton be sure and make sure you have good shocks, LT tires and a tow package.

[SteveC7010]

Let me first respectfully suggest that looking at the dry weight of a TT or 5er when planning a tow vehicle is just plan inadvisable. You have to use the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating.) We all carry stuff, lots of stuff in our rigs so trying to say that you'll always travel light is just, well, silly.

In addition to all the information presented, we've not looked at payload which is the total weight you can carry in a vehicle including driver and passengers, fuel, and cargo. The numbers I found on an internet search are lower than quoted above. The 2013 Avalanche is rated at about 1,300# to 1,400#. By comparison, A Sierra 1500 pickup is rated at 1,500# to 1,900#.

Expecting a tongue weight of between 550 and 800 pounds doesn't leave much capacity for people, fuel, and gear, if any depending on the number of passengers.

This is the same reasoning the eliminates the Tahoe and Suburban as good tow vehicle choices these days. All three vehicles are built on the same chassis and suspension. In reality, they're just gussied up large passenger cars that can carry a bit of luggage.

If you examine the so called "1/2 ton" pickups like the Chevy or Dodge 1500s, the Tundra, or the Ford F-150, you find a larger payload and just as much passenger space. These days, they ride as smooth as a passenger car. Yup, they're longer by a bit but they are just as wide and just as tall as the Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche.

Because the Avalanche can share the same drive train as the 1500, it ends up with a very similar "tow" rating, but that is a pull rating only. There's been a mad rush to top each other's "tow" ratings among the manufacturers, but they've not found a way to increase the payload to match in the SUV's. They have boosted payload in the pickups. Most of the 1/2 tons used to have a payload around 1,500#. Now you can easily find one with a payload of 1,950# or better.

I drive a Ford F-250 Super Duty diesel because I currently have an 11,000# GVWR fiver. If we downsize some day, I will stick with the F-250 but probably switch to gas. The diesel has lots of torque and pulling power, but you sacrifice over 800# of payload and pull capacity. The new gas engines and matching transmissions provide plenty of capability in the lower weight TT categories.

If you search back here you will find dozens (or more) threads about selecting a tow vehicle, and they all arrive at pretty much the same conclusion: the minimum adequate tow vehicle is a properly equipped /12 ton pick for up to the 7,800# GVWR trailers. Any thing bigger needs at least a 3/4 ton truck or more.

[faturner]

Thanks for the welcome and the replies.

As far as what’s to be added to the load, it will be me, my wife, 2 skinny kids and 2 small Boston Terribles...er, uh, Terriers. We are used to tent camping and putting all of our gear into the back of a Hyundai Sante Fe so we can definitely downsize. Other than food, a small cooler, and clothes, I can’t think of anything heavy to load other than a Coleman Roadtrip Grill that I like to take. Kind of bulky but not very heavy. We are not into boondocking so we would be traveling with tanks empty. I have never taken a generator before. Might be good but I don’t know if the one I have will power the trailer (Honda e2000i).

As far as where we travel, my wife and I are both teachers so it’s weekends and such during the school year. We are partial to a KOA in Lake Conroe and one around Lake Livingston. Last two summers we have made long treks to Yellowstone and DC so that’s about the extent of mountain driving. The bulk of our camping would be in Southeast Texas.

All of the Avalanches I have looked at have the upgraded tow package which is the 3.42 gear ratio(GU6), heavy duty transmission cooler (KNP), Enhanced cooling package(K5L) and the trailering package (Reese type hitch) fo HD trailer(Z82). I know for 2009 they added the 6 speed transmission, and the 2012-13 model years have the sway control added so those are the years I’m looking at. The only 2500 model I can find is a 2002 model over 500 miles away.

This is not an immediate purchase so I have time to research further (6 months to a year). Thanks again for your input!

[Buckeyexx]

I know some people will disagree with what I use to pull the same trailer (239ml) which is a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee overland. It does have the hemi engine and bigger brake package they put on the overland. The travel trailer is the same as the 238 but newer with double wide bunks. I would not go any bigger than the 26 ft from tongue to tail and weighing 4100 lbs dry but it does pull great. I can tell it is back there when it is windy out for sure but on a calm day it causes me no issues at all. The avalanche is a bigger vehicle than the jeep but not sure about power wise. If you plan on keeping it for a few years then I would imagine the avalanche will do ok but if you plan to upgrade within a couple of years then go with a bigger truck.


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[JRTJH]

Thanks for the welcome and the replies.

As far as what’s to be added to the load, it will be me, my wife, 2 skinny kids and 2 small Boston Terribles...er, uh, Terriers...

Keep in mind that if this is a "long term purchase" (more than a couple of years) those two skinny kids will grow larger and heavier with every passing camping season. Remember also, that the size (and weight) of the toys they want to bring along will also grow heavier as their interests turn from "teddy bears" to "dirt bikes and 4 wheelers".....

If the Avalanche is a "stop gap vehicle" for the next year, more or less just to pull the trailer home when the in-law's house is finished, it's probably workable, but as you say, during the summer we travelled to Yellowstone and DC, and you plan to do that with growing kids, their toys and the "stuff needed for extended travel with a larger RV, then I think you'll find that after one such trip, you're objective will be a trade for a larger tow vehicle. Might as well incorporate that "real truck" in the plans from the start. There's much less "investment loss" without trading the vehicle next year after your summer trip.... Read the older forum threads and you'll see that over half the people who "buy big trailers with make-do tows" post a larger vehicle purchase after a trip or two.

[notanlines]

I loved your "Other than food, a small cooler, and clothes, I can’t think of anything heavy to load other than a Coleman Roadtrip Grill that I like to take" statement. I know that put a smile on the face of all the old timers here. I'll will give you kudos for asking your questions BEFORE you make your purchase. Usually on this forum we are asked to approve the purchase of a big Montana to be pulled behind a Toyota Tacoma, and then the poster will leave in a huff after reading all the posts chastising his choice. Keep looking and studying the problem. Part of the fun is in the shopping. And thanks to you and yours for the time spent teaching. We all appreciate your troubles.

[flybouy]

[QUOTE=faturner;263524]Thanks for the welcome and the replies.

As far as what’s to be added to the load, it will be me, my wife, 2 skinny kids and 2 small Boston Terribles...er, uh, Terriers. We are used to tent camping and putting all of our gear into the back of a Hyundai Sante Fe so we can definitely downsize. Other than food, a small cooler, and clothes, I can’t think of anything heavy to load other than a Coleman Roadtrip Grill that I like to take.

I don't know about your wife but mine would fill the Taj Mahal if I bought it:banghead:

[gearhead]

John hit on a familiar subject...we started with a Cougar XLite 28SGS 5th wheel and a used GMC 2500 4x4 6.0 gasser. It was a pretty good match. We pulled it around SE Texas and SW LA with no issues. Then we went to the Smokies. No bueno. Screaming uphill, my foot on the gas pedal to the floor. Then coasting downhill, too fast usually. We got home and I traded it on a F350 diesel. Much better. Well now that we have a good tow vehicle lets get a bigger 5th wheel. We got the Montana HC. Discovered the F350 didn't have quite enough payload. Got the RAM. All is good. Then got the Bigfoot. After a trip to the scales I'm right on the edge of payload capacity. Now "it's why didn't I get a dually?"

[Tbos]

I had that exact trailer. A 238ML and towed it with a 2014 CC Silverado 1500 5.3L with the 3:42 rear end. That truck purred with that TT behind it. It never ever even breathed hard. I did put LT tires on the truck and had a properly set up WDH. My truck had a payload of 1750 lbs. Then I upgraded to my current TT. Now I have a bigger truck that will tow my 5er when I get it. Let us know what you finally buy.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[linux3]

Tbos, you beat me to it. Although my TT is a couple of hundred pounds lighter, label on the door says 3825 LBs I too have a Silverado 5.3L w/ 3:42 gears. No problems.
I don't really think a few hundred pounds difference in weight means all that much. IMHO it's the giant brick and wind resistance that makes a major difference.
I've got 9k miles in road trips just this year and am very happy with everything.

[Buckeyexx]

Not trying to go back and forth but where is the 9k coming from? The 238ml is under 4K dry. Yes you will be adding weight but no more than maybe 1k and that’s on the high end


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[sourdough]

Not trying to go back and forth but where is the 9k coming from? The 238ml is under 4K dry. Yes you will be adding weight but no more than maybe 1k and that’s on the high end


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The message was deleted that you refer to. It did not pertain to this discussion...sorry.

[Bumala]

We've towed our Laredo 23RB with our 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3L diesel up to Alaska and back. The diesel has the torque to pull a trailer.

[Hideout17]

Ohhhh geeeez, here it is simply. Half tons can only tow tent trailers and nothing else, they are worthless for towing. Anything up to a fifth wheel needs a 3/4 ton. Any fifth wheel needs a one ton period but a 4500 series is better. So in closing get a one ton with only a diesel

[sourdough]

Ohhhh geeeez, here it is simply. Half tons can only tow tent trailers and nothing else, they are worthless for towing. Anything up to a fifth wheel needs a 3/4 ton. Any fifth wheel needs a one ton period but a 4500 series is better. So in closing get a one ton with only a diesel


Hmmmm. Did you read the thread? I didn't come to that conclusion reading it...again. In fact, I've not seen posts advocating what you have surmised anywhere on the forum that I recall. I do understand if you pull overloaded with an underweight truck that you would feel that way.....but, maybe you aren't and just misread?? :angel:

[Tbos]

Ohhhh geeeez, here it is simply. Half tons can only tow tent trailers and nothing else, they are worthless for towing. Anything up to a fifth wheel needs a 3/4 ton. Any fifth wheel needs a one ton period but a 4500 series is better. So in closing get a one ton with only a diesel



I sure hope you are kidding. The 2014 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 with tow package towed my 238ML like a breeze. I was well under my payload, axle, and GVWR limits on both the TT and TV. With the exception of the reduced gas mileage and the blocked reserve view when towing I never even knew it was back there.


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[LFord]

Ohhhh geeeez, here it is simply. Half tons can only tow tent trailers and nothing else, they are worthless for towing. Anything up to a fifth wheel needs a 3/4 ton. Any fifth wheel needs a one ton period but a 4500 series is better. So in closing get a one ton with only a diesel

I disagree. I tow a Passport 199ML (3600 EW) with a 2013 Ford F-150 Supercab that has the 3.5L Ecoboost turbo engine (365 HP, 420 lb/ft torque) with a tow rating of 8600 lbs. and payload of 1744 lb. Although I'm solo I've towed the 199ML at a GW over 4000 lbs in the mountains and the truck handled it quite well. Last time I checked, it was considered a "half-ton" truck. It has an Equalizer WDH installed.

Now, if the TT were longer/heavier or a fifth wheel, I'd be moving up to an F-250 Super Duty, but my F-150 does fine for what I'm towing now.

[Carrottop]

Ohhhh geeeez, here it is simply. Half tons can only tow tent trailers and nothing else, they are worthless for towing. Anything up to a fifth wheel needs a 3/4 ton. Any fifth wheel needs a one ton period but a 4500 series is better. So in closing get a one ton with only a diesel
That is about as incorrect as they come. No wonder some new comers get frustrated and leave. Many 1/2 tonnes can pull a TT with no problem provided they are within the specs of that truck, to make a blanket statement such as that is not helpful to anyone who is trying to configure the right setup. I pull a 217exp 25ft TT with a dry weight of 4800lbs with my 09 F150 and it has yet breath hard doing it. Yes it is configured right with a WD sway control hitch.

[robnrobin]

I just pulled our new ( to us ) 2013 Passport 238ML home last week with my 2009 Silverado 1/2 ton 5.3. I had to pull it over the Santiam pass here in Oregon and it was no problem at all! I feel like all my research on getting the right trailer for my truck and family paid off. Oh and I used the weight distribution hitch the seller through in.

[Hideout17]

Sorry been gone for a while. Yes I was kidding when I posted that. My opinion is if you are comfortable with it then go with it. I tow a 31ft hideout with m y tundra. A lot of tow police pretty much say what I posted....again just a joke lol

[faturner]

Thanks for all of the advice and info. After many months of research and searches I just purchased my tow vehicle. I bought a Chevy 2014 Silverado Double Cab with the trailering package, transmission cooler and rear end at 3.42. 5.3 V8. Drives wonderful. Can’t wait till we get to hook it up to the rv.

Next question:

In the glove box is a wiring harness labeled trailer brake system. There is not a factory controller installed in the left side of the dash, just the little “catch all” in place of the controller. Can I get a factory controller and replace the cutout in the dash so it stays “factory”?

[MarcS]

Thanks for all of the advice and info. After many months of research and searches I just purchased my tow vehicle. I bought a Chevy 2014 Silverado Double Cab with the trailering package, transmission cooler and rear end at 3.42. 5.3 V8. Drives wonderful. Can’t wait till we get to hook it up to the rv.

Next question:

In the glove box is a wiring harness labeled trailer brake system. There is not a factory controller installed in the left side of the dash, just the little “catch all” in place of the controller. Can I get a factory controller and replace the cutout in the dash so it stays “factory”?Yes you can get factory trailer brake controller installed.

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[Tbos]

Thanks for all of the advice and info. After many months of research and searches I just purchased my tow vehicle. I bought a Chevy 2014 Silverado Double Cab with the trailering package, transmission cooler and rear end at 3.42. 5.3 V8. Drives wonderful. Can’t wait till we get to hook it up to the rv.



Next question:



In the glove box is a wiring harness labeled trailer brake system. There is not a factory controller installed in the left side of the dash, just the little “catch all” in place of the controller. Can I get a factory controller and replace the cutout in the dash so it stays “factory”?



At one time I had the same truck and TT combo. Your truck will hardly know the TT is there. It’s a good match.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[busterbrown]

^^^^^^I agree. Your new TV will do the job easily. Congrats.

[linux3]

Next question:
In the glove box is a wiring harness labeled trailer brake system. There is not a factory controller installed in the left side of the dash, just the little “catch all” in place of the controller. Can I get a factory controller and replace the cutout in the dash so it stays “factory”?
I don't know about your truck but I bought "Off the lot" and added an after market brake controller. There is no way a factory BC can be installed.
Well, if you replace a few computers and such I guess. No dealer would even talk about it and the Silverado forum I subscribe to has the tales of woe from a few people who tried it.
I'm pretty sure the plug is to connect an after market brake controller.
I don't want to start a religious war here but I like the Tekonsha Primus IQ.
I unstalled it just to the left of the steering column. JMHO.

[sourdough]

I don't know about your truck but I bought "Off the lot" and added an after market brake controller. There is no way a factory BC can be installed.
Well, if you replace a few computers and such I guess. No dealer would even talk about it and the Silverado forum I subscribe to has the tales of woe from a few people who tried it.
I'm pretty sure the plug is to connect an after market brake controller.
I don't want to start a religious war here but I like the Tekonsha Primus IQ.
I unstalled it just to the left of the steering column. JMHO.

I'm not sure what GM does for a factory controller but all I've had were factory made into the dash. I'm not sure how you would do that "after the fact" without a new dash. Maybe it can be done......?

I have had a Primus IQ and they are a good brake controller if the harness is just to "plug and play" an aftermarket controller into.

[JRTJH]

Next question:

In the glove box is a wiring harness labeled trailer brake system. There is not a factory controller installed in the left side of the dash, just the little “catch all” in place of the controller. Can I get a factory controller and replace the cutout in the dash so it stays “factory”?

Take a look at this link. It's from the GM Advanced Automotive Diagnostics website. Apparently, according to them, unless your truck was built with option RPO JL1, it can not be added.

https://gm.oemdtc.com/6736/pit5241d-adding-integrated-trailer-brake-controller-rpo-jl1-2014-2017-cadillac-chevrolet-gmc

I'd suspect that the connector and wiring you found in the glove compartment is the plug and wiring to connect an aftermarket brake controller to the truck's wiring harness.