Tires???

[Bit'n'Goldie]

I have a question regarding quality tires for my RV, 2015 Cougar High Country 333MKS.
I had my first blowout, before finding out the factory Trailer King tires are dubbed 'China Bombs". I just returned home today from the RV dealer after having $1000 repairs. I'm thankful it wasn't worse damages now seeing what others have had to pay. Not hesitating I have been in search of significantly better tires and junk the Trailer Kings. Upon arriving home from dealer (only 30 miles away) I backed into my shed and had just leveled my 5th wheel when "pow" another tire blew on the other rear side. Fortunate for me I was home and not on the road. I have looked into ST235/80R-16/10 Goodyear Marathon, Maxxis and ST235/80R-16/10 Towstar St Highway BW. Does anyone have any good/bad experiences with these choices? I'd sure appreciate your input.

Thanks

[MerlinB]

Maxxis 8008 load range E. Excellent reputation.

[Terry W.]

I went with Maxxis tires and have been pleased. They seem not loose air like the China boom that came on unit. I have a 38 foot fifth wheel.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[fatcatzzz]

I have used both Marathon, Maxxis with out problems. Can't speak for others. If someone has had problems, they will chime in. I now have Saliun's on current 5th wheel.

[busterbrown]

The newest Carlisle Radial Trail HD's have a wonderful reputation among members on this and many other RV forums. They have one size larger, a "235/85/16", LRF that "should" fit your coach. It'll give you the added load reserve capacity that the OEM's never provided. Check out their application guide here (https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-detail/radial-trail-hd).

[JRTJH]

This is my opinion and some "facts" that have guided my selection of ST tires for the past several years.

First, Goodyear Marathon tires "were" very good tires with an excellent reputation in the 90's. Then Goodyear moved production to China and the quality went down. There was a recall and replacement of all Marathon tires in the mid 90's and the reputation has not yet recovered. I think (again, opinion) that the main reason Goodyear introduced a new ST line, the Endeavor, was because they have been unable to improve the reputation and overcome the negative feelings about the Marathon line. The Endurance has only been on the market about 6-8 months, so for me, it's too early to reach a conclusion on whether they are an improvement over the Marathon line. Early comments seem to be positive, but, for me, it's too early to decide.

Maxxis has been a reputable ST tire manufacturer with unwavering quality. They are an "industry standard" and an excellent tire.

Carlisle Radial Trail HD is a improved version of the Radial Trail RH tire. They are made in China, but unlike Trailer King and Tow Max tires, Carlisle owns the factory in which they are made and they control the quality of materials and workmanship very carefully. TK and TM tires are produced in a third party plant and there seems to be little or no oversight by the company that imports them into the US. TK and TM are not imported by a "tire company" but rather by a "tire distributor". Carlisle is a "tire company" that actively builds tires, they are not an "import company" that sells tires. For me, that is a significant difference.

Now, for cost, Goodyear seems to be the most expensive, Maxxis is second and Carlisle is the cheapest of the three. I say "cheapest" not in a sense of quality but only as a reference to price. Currently WalMart is selling Carlisle Radial Trail HD tires in all sizes at prices that are lower than any other retail outlet. Given the tire quality and price, they are probably going to be your best value. With the quality of the Carlisle tires, it's very difficult to choose another brand, at least it is for me.

[CWtheMan]

I’ve been a RV trailer tire researcher for more than 12 years. I’ve belonged to numerous RV forums, some model specific (Keystone Everest and Montana). I’ve seen numerous ST tires come and go, be renamed and redesigned. I’ve seen brands made in the USA mover to China and back without much change in reliability in either countries tire plants.

OEM RV trailer tires, any design, are often at their maximum expected capabilities when they are installed. They are destined to fail before their normal expected life expectancy. Add in a little to much weight, excessive speed and some under inflation and they are going to heat-up internally, shed their treads, and ultimately go BOOM.

New trailers are transported from the factory to the dealer. Then the dealer moves them around and may even take them to RV shows where they make the tires shine with something. By the time a consumer buys one and drive’s off the lot with it the tires have a lot of history. How good or bad the history is we may never know. Blow one on the way home would be a good indicator.

A large community (Keystone) using lowest bidder OEM tires is most likely going to have numerous failures of the OEM tires. It causes the OEM to be called bad names which also causes them to get a bad reputation, just maybe unfounded.

Replacement tires are most often from a brand other than the OEM brand and a step up in load capacity is also very popular and likely justified. The increased load capacity and awareness of the difference in trailer tires and their operational parameters will cause the replacements to get a much better feedback from the owner. Is it a fair feedback? It’s a stronger tire and better maintained.

I can tell you the ups & downs of OEM tires used over the years on Keystone products but the results were the same back when as they are today.

OEM tires without cost minus tariffs are scarce. So you’re gonna see China on the sidewalls. Get the plant code off the tire and research the plant. Look for advanced manufacturing certifications like ISO/TS 16949 or it’s equivalent. Check-out the warranty. Some are two years and others are as high as 5 years. Some are from time of purchase and others are from time of manufacturer (date stamp on tire).

USA made tires will be more durable (durability does not add strength, just carcass protection) but they will also be much more costly.

Can you change design with your replacement tires? Sure, but it’s your call because it’s not recommended. The basics don’t change. The replacement tires MUST have a load capacity equal to the OE tires by inflation.

The basics also apply to wheel size. They can only carry the weight they are certified to carry. Same with the valve stems. They must be certified for the PSI being used in the tire. Remember, RV trailer wheels have a zero offset.

What would I recommend? I don’t do that. Besides, I’ve been using a very unpopular ST tire brand for 10 years. I have 6000# GAWR axles. However, I don’t recommend changing designs from what is recommended on your placard. The ST tire market is prolific. There are satisfactory sizes for all fitments, now even those 8000# axles.

[MattE303]

I have used both Marathon, Maxxis with out problems. Can't speak for others. If someone has had problems, they will chime in. I now have Saliun's on current 5th wheel.

X2 on the Sailuns. My toy hauler has a GVWR of 16755 and is dual axle, so the OEM load range E tires were too close to their limit for my comfort, not to mention they were Trailer Kings :hide: I upgraded to load range G Sailuns in the same size, and the difference is drastic, the OEM tires felt flimsy and light, the Sailuns are twice the weight, stiff and beefy! Fortunately, the wheels that came on my trailer were designed for more weight than the OEM tires and capable of handling the higher pressures required by the Sailuns, so upgrading was fairly painless.

[Gegrad]

This is my opinion and some "facts" that have guided my selection of ST tires for the past several years.

First, Goodyear Marathon tires "were" very good tires with an excellent reputation in the 90's. Then Goodyear moved production to China and the quality went down. There was a recall and replacement of all Marathon tires in the mid 90's and the reputation has not yet recovered. I think (again, opinion) that the main reason Goodyear introduced a new ST line, the Endeavor, was because they have been unable to improve the reputation and overcome the negative feelings about the Marathon line.



The Marathons are definitely made in the USA; I purchased a set for my old Passport in April 2016 and verified this before purchase.

[JRTJH]

The Marathons are definitely made in the USA; I purchased a set for my old Passport in April 2016 and verified this before purchase.

That's good news, but really doesn't change the reputation that the Marathon tires "earned" through the years. That's why (in my opinion) that Goodyear introduced the Endeavor. They probably will have many years of "negative reputation" with the Marathon tires, regardless of where they are manufactured.

[Gegrad]

That's good news, but really doesn't change the reputation that the Marathon tires "earned" through the years. That's why (in my opinion) that Goodyear introduced the Endeavor. They probably will have many years of "negative reputation" with the Marathon tires, regardless of where they are manufactured.

Gotcha. I honestly was unfamiliar with their reputation when I bought them; I was only a teen during their 90s problem years you referenced a few posts before.

[JRTJH]

I had a 93 Holdiay Rambler with Goodyear Marathon tires. Three blowouts before the recall and when they finally did agree to replace them, I traded in the "new Marathons" for Maxxis before they ever mounted them. I didn't get "full retail value" on the trade of "new tires" but I did get enough to make the Maxxis tires worth the price. I towed that trailer another 30,000 miles and never had another blowout after I got rid of the Marathons.....

I do hope your experience with the newer ones is better than mine, but "once, twice, three times burned...... It'll take a lot to get me to ever consider Marathons again.

[mazboy]

it is good that lots of people have given you input, but the simple answer, what tire, go either a good year g614....G rated! forget the E rated tires. yes, you will pay about $2000 for 5 of them but they do work
if not the good year then at least go with the G rated Saliun.... $200 each.

[JRTJH]

it is good that lots of people have given you input, but the simple answer, what tire, go either a good year g614....G rated! forget the E rated tires. yes, you will pay about $2000 for 5 of them but they do work
if not the good year then at least go with the G rated Saliun.... $200 each.

Or the "F rated" Carlisle Radial Trail HD ST235/85R16, 3960 pounds at 95 PSI. WalMart's price is $94 per tire and usually Discount Tire will match that price. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carlisle-Radial-Trail-RH-Trailer-Tire-ST235-85R16-LRF-12-ply-Wheel-Not-Included/194273051

[Gegrad]

I do hope your experience with the newer ones is better than mine, but "once, twice, three times burned...... It'll take a lot to get me to ever consider Marathons again.

I only had them on the trailer for about a 15 months before I sold it, so I certainly can't comment on their long term durability, but I had zero problems with them during that 15 months. They only lost 1 psi over winter storage too.

[rhagfo]

Or the "F rated" Carlisle Radial Trail HD ST235/85R16, 3960 pounds at 95 PSI. WalMart's price is $94 per tire and usually Discount Tire will match that price. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carlisle-Radial-Trail-RH-Trailer-Tire-ST235-85R16-LRF-12-ply-Wheel-Not-Included/194273051

Well putting almost 16,000# of tire rating on a 5er with a GVWR of about 12,000# meaning only about 10,000# of which is on the axles. That and how do you manufacture a quality tire and retail it for $94????
I will take my LT truck tire rated at only 3,042# and know it is a quality name brand tire that you trust the safety of your family with on your TV. Built to a higher standard then ST tires.

[bobbecky]

I was not aware that Goodyear started making the Marathon in the US again. They at one time were made here, but for quite a few years were made in China, which is why they are part of the China-bomb legacy. Goodyear is making a new US made trailer tire, called Endurance, which is supposed to be much better.

[JRTJH]

Well putting almost 16,000# of tire rating on a 5er with a GVWR of about 12,000# meaning only about 10,000# of which is on the axles. That and how do you manufacture a quality tire and retail it for $94????
I will take my LT truck tire rated at only 3,042# and know it is a quality name brand tire that you trust the safety of your family with on your TV. Built to a higher standard then ST tires.

If I simply said, "I dunno".... You can do whatever you want. The post I made wasn't directed at you, but simply as an alternative to purchasing $2000 Goodyear G614 (LRG) tires or $800 Sailun LRG tires. Remember, the Sailun's are rated at 4400 per tire, so that's 17,600 pound rating on the same trailer. You didn't comment about those two alternatives, however, the tires I listed, Carlisle Radial Trail HD, have an excellent reputation on this forum. I run them on my fifth wheel, many others do as well and nobody has complained of "bad tires", so take that whatever way you want. As for your question, "How do you manufacture a quality tire and retail it for $94?" Again, "I dunno", but WalMart and Carlisle are doing it.

Another comment, there's almost 1,000 pounds per tire added capacity between your tires and the Carlisle load range F tires. That's 4,000 pounds more than your LT tire capacity. Does that mean anything? Again, "I dunno"...

[rhagfo]

If I simply said, "I dunno".... You can do whatever you want. The post I made wasn't directed at you, but simply as an alternative to purchasing $2000 Goodyear G614 (LRG) tires or $800 Sailun LRG tires. Remember, the Sailun's are rated at 4400 per tire, so that's 17,600 pound rating on the same trailer. You didn't comment about those two alternatives, however, the tires I listed, Carlisle Radial Trail HD, have an excellent reputation on this forum. I run them on my fifth wheel, many others do as well and nobody has complained of "bad tires", so take that whatever way you want. As for your question, "How do you manufacture a quality tire and retail it for $94?" Again, "I dunno", but WalMart and Carlisle are doing it.

Another comment, there's almost 1,000 pounds per tire added capacity between your tires and the Carlisle load range F tires. That's 4,000 pounds more than your LT tire capacity. Does that mean anything? Again, "I dunno"...

My point is that the extra 4,000# capacity 16,000# vs 12,000# on a tire load of about 10,000# is overkill and as most insist on running ST at max air pressure then they will be like the Fintstones tires rock hard and beat the heck out of the trailer.

[Tinner12002]

Maxxis 8008 load range E. Excellent reputation.

X2 on the Maxxis, especially of all the ones OP listed.

[Desert185]

My point is that the extra 4,000# capacity 16,000# vs 12,000# on a tire load of about 10,000# is overkill and as most insist on running ST at max air pressure then they will be like the Fintstones tires rock hard and beat the heck out of the trailer.

Not any worse than the stiff sidewalls of the Sailuns, but less unsprung weight and less rotating braking resistance. Increasing the margin is good, depending on the actual weight of the trailer, but sometimes overkill really is overkill.

[JRTJH]

My point is that the extra 4,000# capacity 16,000# vs 12,000# on a tire load of about 10,000# is overkill and as most insist on running ST at max air pressure then they will be like the Fintstones tires rock hard and beat the heck out of the trailer.

The Carlisle LR F tires are a significant "step down" from the Sailun/Goodyear LR G tires. While they are stiffer than the LR E tires (95 vs 80 PSI) they are not nearly as stiff as the Sailun/Goodyear LR G tires (110 PSI).

I get it that you're a proponent of using LT tires on fifth wheels. That's ONE viable option, but yours is not the ONLY option. I have heard of no one on the forum having a blowout with Carlisle Radial Trail tires in the past 4 or 5 years, the length of time I've been watching Carlisle's track record.

There is a suggested 10% per year degredation that occurs with ST tires. With the 5 year "suggested lifetime" that is a 50% loss of capacity in 5 years.

Doing the math, with 10K on the axles, let's consider that there is 2500 pounds on each wheel. Given the 3960 rating of the LR F tires, with 10% loss per year, even those tires would be "at max capacity" in about 4 years.

I wouldn't suppose that LT tires have "no degredation" so they also would lose load capacity through age and use.

As for your reference to "flintstone tires", many of us (me included) have experienced improved handling and ride stability when increasing tire size/load rating from D to E (increased tire pressure from 65 PSI to 80 PSI) on trailers in the 8000 pound axle weight range. There's nothing to suggest that the increase on 10000 pound axle weight range to 95 PSI would create what you refer to as "the flintstone tires" or that they would "beat the heck out of the trailer". Increasing to LR G (110 PSI) however, has been reported on this forum to be suspected to cause spring hanger twisting from the sidewalls not flexing because of rigidity. I have no details that would indicate that was the only cause for his hanger failure, neither did the owner, but it is one of the suspected causes, so increasing to LR G tires on a trailer in the 10K axle rate range may well be "overkill" as I suggested in my response indicating that as an option, LR F tires might be appropriate.

I get it, you like LT tires more than ST tires, but they are not the only option and many would prefer not to use them. Let's face it, special trailer (ST) tires are here to stay, at least for the current technology. The objective, increasing tire load capacity and finding reputable ST tires is the focus of this thread. You posts suggest that "if you don't use LT tires, you're in for trouble". I just don't buy that as objective truth or the "only answer" to buying tires for a fifth wheel and I don't believe that you have to spend $2000 on Goodyear G614's or $800 on Sailun LR G tires in order to find ST tires appropriate for a fifth wheel with a GVW of 12,000 pounds.

[rhagfo]

The is a limit to what you can run LT truck tires on and it is about 13,000# GVWR. I will say that the 12 year old LT that came off our rig still look very good, only started developing age cracks in the last year. Were we pushing it a bit, yes, but most trips this last year were about 150 miles. Wanted the freshest tires available befor we started full time.

[Bit'n'Goldie]

That's why I don't care to overkill with lighter RV. The ride is rough and California roads will dislodge even more of the short screws in my RV. Thanks everyone for your input. Sure appreciate the opinions.

[jimmymac60]

OVERKILL!!! I believe in it. My 2000 Montana GVW is 13,000 lbs. The tires I just put on are ADVANTA 3000T. Sidewalls are thick and very strong. http://www.advantatire.com/commercial-truck/trailer/av3000t/

[Barbell]

Since we replaced the GY Marathons with Sailuns about 2 years ago, have not had near the problems inside the rig like clothes jumping off the hangers, stuff jumping out of cabinets or off shelves. The Sailuns are run at 110 PSI and the rig pulls easier and smoother with them. So I don't buy the idea that higher inflation makes for a rougher ride. We see quite a few apparently newbys pulling big rigs at 70 MPH or more, so I'm guessing they would have a problem inside the rig regardless of which tire they are running.

[MattE303]

Since we replaced the GY Marathons with Sailuns about 2 years ago, have not had near the problems inside the rig like clothes jumping off the hangers, stuff jumping out of cabinets or off shelves. The Sailuns are run at 110 PSI and the rig pulls easier and smoother with them. So I don't buy the idea that higher inflation makes for a rougher ride. We see quite a few apparently newbys pulling big rigs at 70 MPH or more, so I'm guessing they would have a problem inside the rig regardless of which tire they are running.
We've had a very illuminating discussion about tire pressures over in the Tires,Tires,Tires forum. What I learned is that you don't necessarily have to run an ST tire at its maximum rated pressure, instead you can run it at a pressure that is appropriate for the actual load (weight) you're placing on it. In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer (my loaded trailer weight is probably considerably less than yours Barbell), so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi. According to a tire inflation chart provided by Sailun, that pressure is appropriate given the weight on my tires when my trailer is fully loaded.

See the other thread for details: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31041

post #4 is where the good stuff starts.

This forum is great, I'm learning so much! :bow:

[CWtheMan]

We've had a very illuminating discussion about tire pressures over in the Tires,Tires,Tires forum. What I learned is that you don't necessarily have to run an ST tire at its maximum rated pressure, instead you can run it at a pressure that is appropriate for the actual load (weight) you're placing on it. In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer (my loaded trailer weight is probably considerably less than yours Barbell), so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi. According to a tire inflation chart provided by Sailun, that pressure is appropriate given the weight on my tires when my trailer is fully loaded.

See the other thread for details: http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31041

post #4 is where the good stuff starts.

This forum is great, I'm learning so much! :bow:


Is "fully loaded" referencing your actual load on the axles or the trailer's GVWR?

OE tires are fitted as being appropriate for the trailer's GAWRs.

According to tire industry standards, plus sized replacement tires must provide, via inflation, a load capacity equal to what the OE tires provided when serviced to their recommended inflation pressures shown on the tire placard.

When serviced to the load carried you have zero load capacity reserves. Why purchase tires with oodles of available load capacity reserves and then not take advantage of it? An under inflated "over kill" tire is going to fail just like any other under inflated tire.

When referencing the manufacturer's building instructions, "appropriate" inflation pressure is what is listed on the vehicle's certification label as recommended cold inflation pressure for the OE tires. They are the "benchmark" for all subsequent replacements.

[CWtheMan]

In my case, running my Sailuns at 110psi actually does provide a rough ride for the trailer so I'm going to try running them at 80-90psi.

Your signature lists your fiver as being a 2017 Keystone Carbon 337.

According to Keystone's spec sheet the OE tires were the new LRF ST235/80R16F and have a load capacity of 3630# @ 95 PSI.

Is that what's on your trailer's certification label?

[MattE303]

Is "fully loaded" referencing your actual load on the axles or the trailer's GVWR?

OE tires are fitted as being appropriate for the trailer's GAWRs.

According to tire industry standards, plus sized replacement tires must provide, via inflation, a load capacity equal to what the OE tires provided when serviced to their recommended inflation pressures shown on the tire placard.

When serviced to the load carried you have zero load capacity reserves. Why purchase tires with oodles of available load capacity reserves and then not take advantage of it? An under inflated "over kill" tire is going to fail just like any other under inflated tire.

When referencing the manufacturer's building instructions, "appropriate" inflation pressure is what is listed on the vehicle's certification label as recommended cold inflation pressure for the OE tires. They are the "benchmark" for all subsequent replacements.
By "fully loaded" I meant what my trailer actually weights at the CAT scale with everything loaded for a trip, fresh water full, etc. In my case, that's 11,080 lbs on the axles (total trailer weight 13,980 lbs). GVWR for my trailer is 16,755 so I'm well below that.

The trailer came with Trailer King 235/80R16 Load Range E tires (max inflation on sidewall says 80 psi). The tire certification sticker on the trailer indicates 235/80R16E tires, recommended inflation pressure 80psi.

The Sailuns I put on are not plus sized, they're the same size as the OE tires (235/80R16), but they're Load Range G instead of E, and, in my mind, a better quality tire.

Given my actual CAT scale weight, and the Sailun chart, it was my understanding that by running the Sailuns at 80-90 psi, I was giving myself significant capacity reserves, and not under inflating, am I wrong about that?

[MattE303]

Your signature lists your fiver as being a 2017 Keystone Carbon 337.

According to Keystone's spec sheet the OE tires were the new LRF ST235/80R16F and have a load capacity of 3630# @ 95 PSI.

Is that what's on your trailer's certification label?

My trailer is a 2017 Carbon 337, but as I indicated in my previous post, it came with LRE tires, max 80psi (and that is also what my sticker indicates). It would appear they changed the spec after my trailer was built. In light of that, it would probably make sense to run 95psi in my Sailuns...still better than 110psi.

[CWtheMan]

:iagree:My trailer is a 2017 Carbon 337, but as I indicated in my previous post, it came with LRE tires, max 80psi (and that is also what my sticker indicates). It would appear they changed the spec after my trailer was built. In light of that, it would probably make sense to run 95psi in my Sailuns...still better than 110psi.

:iagree: