Quality???

[earlzach]

I really hate to be a complainer its just not me. But The people at the Plant that produces the Passports would not work for me!!!
Today was Day one of ownership, you know happy camper, time to personalize this rig to my liking? Whelp if it isn't bad enough its already going back to have a trim piece replaced because it was cut to short, I noticed the vent in the living area to have FRIGGIN GLUE all over the plastic vent and it looks the person must have had glue all over their hands when placing the rubber weather strip on. It looks like a 3 year old did it.
I like the trailer but I'm sure like most people you think Price and you don't want to see Carelessness!!!!
Still a great looking unit. I'm sure once the idio's are fixed Ill get over the idea that I traded a near perfect fully paid for trailer for problems and payments!!!!!:confused::banghead:

[madmaxmutt]

I understand the frustration. I have a few minor issues that need to be taken care of on my new trailer, as well. I don't think any manufacturer is immune to it. I get that it is a little house on wheels, but the lack of attention to detail, is an issue. In one case I feel like they actually tried to hide the flaw on purpose. If not, they didn't know much about carpentry. . .

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[mfifield01]

They are definitely cheaply built. I have been fixing (and strengthening) things on mine. It took about 1.5 years to work out most of the issues.

I came from a 21 year old boat that rarely had issues. My opinion is that trailer will last about half as long as a vehicle. I keep vehicles around 10 years and plan to keep the trailer for about 5.

[dcg9381]

If you've got cosmetic and trim issues, I'd count that as a win. It's also stuff you could detect prior to buying.

Line guys are paid to produce a certain number of units per day. If they get done with their unit production, they get to go home. Work 6 hours or 8 hours, paid the same. This is part of the problem.

To be fair, apparently Keystone does employ QA guys who can "shut down" the line....

[PARAPTOR]

Need to compare apples to apples, put a stick house in a constant tornado and earthquake and see how it holds up :hide:

[notanlines]

Earlzach, might we ask what kind of business you own? Paraptor and the others made pretty good points. Years ago we toured the Kenworth plant and things looked fairly professional. Then two years ago we toured the F-150 plant in Detroit and holy schmoly there was no comparison. I'm surprised that the KW's even stay on the road. Does that tell you how much I know about judging talent? I expect the Keystone guys and gals do as well as any of the other employees in producing a reasonable product for a reasonable price.

[earlzach]

Earlzach, might we ask what kind of business you own? Paraptor and the others made pretty good points. Years ago we toured the Kenworth plant and things looked fairly professional. Then two years ago we toured the F-150 plant in Detroit and holy schmoly there was no comparison. I'm surprised that the KW's even stay on the road. Does that tell you how much I know about judging talent? I expect the Keystone guys and gals do as well as any of the other employees in producing a reasonable product for a reasonable price.

Why do defensive? Would it have really been too much to ask the installer to clean the glue off of his hands before placing the rubber seal on and pinching it all the way around leaving yellow globs of glue in plain sight in what is supposed to be a sky view? Even the white plastic cover has yellow finger prints on it. They don't give these trailers away and I work hard for my money. Some people consider these a home away from home.
Funny you feel it is acceptable to produce something that now my dealer (without batting an eye) agreed it was a mess to say the very least.
Thanks for being to opinion patrol. I'll try to be more careful voicing my concerns on a " forum"! Here is a video if anyone cares to view it.
https://youtu.be/dXKIVpuNTis

[sourdough]

A couple of things;

That skylight IS a mess and they should be fixing that for you. I doubt you will have any trouble getting that done. Thankfully it is cosmetic and minor so don't let it ruin your day. If that is all that you find wrong count your blessings.

My other thought is why you didn't see it on the walk through? If you had seen it when checking the vent operation, before it came off the lot, you probably could have saved yourself some frustration.

In the end it sounds like it's going to get fixed so hopefully you will be good to go.

[earlzach]

The trailer was inside and I don't think the light was in our favor Monday evening. It was dark when we got home. Tuesday got the "good" inspection. I would not have rejected the sale over this and the dealer is ordering a new deal and cover just from seeing my video. I don't need to take it back unroll it comes in. I know everything is covered. But this is just someone's sloppy work. I thought I would share in regaurds to a careless and sloppy worker. I didn't think for a second this would be acceptable by anyone. But I think that was proven wrong a couple posts ago.

[sourdough]

Yes, some things you find in an RV are inexplicable. I've seen some issues on new ones sitting on the lot that you would swear the tech doing the job had to work harder to get it the wrong way than it would have been to do it the right way. It's just the nature of the beast and we have to keep that in mind and keep our eyes peeled for it then take them to task to correct it.

[chuckster57]

I think your dealer fell a little short as it should have been noted by the tech that did the PDI. When we see these kind of things, the customer is told at the start of the walk what we found and what we are doing to fix it.

I'm glad your happy with your purchase, and I'm sure any issues will be fixed. I can assure you that at every price range, there are units that will have issues. I DREAD factory orders, seems like they are rushed through and have the most issues.

[earlzach]

I hear ya. This wasn't an order. It was just brought over from a partnering dealers lot due to the one at my dealer was in bad shape from being left on the lot too close to the trailer next to its door. The slide out was scrtched from top to bottom and the window molding was ripped away from the glass. I made it clear when they bring in the next one it DOES NOT GO ON THEIR LOT! Lol they kept it in their shop for four days through the process.

[bsmith0404]

Maybe it was the guys first day and he's still learning his trade. You say the unit was inside and the light wasn't in your favor when you picked it up, just a thought, these are built inside not out in the sun. It would be nice if they all came perfect from the factory, but things get missed. Your dealer is taking care of you, don't let it ruin your day. Just relax and enjoy your new passport.

[jsmith948]

Another way to look at it...in about a year, the vent lid and the rubber gasket will be so yellow from the sun you will no longer see the glue. Just sayin'

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[Colorado]

Hate to say it, but we need some good manufactures (like the Toyota folks) to start building RV's, then we would have to improve to compete. It took us about 1 1/2 years to get everything on a new Alpine working correctly.

[chuckster57]

Hate to say it, but we need some good manufactures (like the Toyota folks) to start building RV's, then we would have to improve to compete. It took us about 1 1/2 years to get everything on a new Alpine working correctly.
What we need are employers that don't pay based on quantity of units produced. Lots of problems found "on the line" are left to be dealt with at the dealership. It's cheaper to ship it than shut the line down to fix it. I've said it many times-spend a month next to me in the shop and you'll see some crazy stuff. :eek:

[JRTJH]

As chuckster said, it's about cost vs profit. I'd urge anyone so visits near Goshen to schedule a visit to the factory. You'll come away with a better understanding of how these "rolling houses" are built and a better appreciation for the engineering that goes into constructing a house that can sustain a 70 MPH wind while bouncing over roads that would equal an earthquake of major size. We tend to focus on the "small stuff" like fingerprints while losing appreciation for the real quality that keeps these things from falling apart at the first "bump in the road" ...

Sure, it would be great if they were delivered with no problems, but given a choice, I'll choose one with the structural integrity and a fingerprint over one that "looks pretty".... WMMV....

[Desert185]

Well, I'm with the OP. These trailers are generally cheaply made. Glueprints? Never should have left the factory like that. If I ever buy another one, I will do the PDI with a flashlight...like the first time.

I bought slightly used, saved a fortune and fixed the (luckily) few issues with the money saved. I'm old enough that this 326SRX will be my last one. Besides, I wouldn't want to go through the entire improvement, accessorizing process all over again.

[Gegrad]

We tend to focus on the "small stuff" like fingerprints while losing appreciation for the real quality that keeps these things from falling apart at the first "bump in the road" ...

Sure, it would be great if they were delivered with no problems, but given a choice, I'll choose one with the structural integrity and a fingerprint over one that "looks pretty".... WMMV....

I would agree, especially when you think about how well and usually how long the slides continue to work well, given the constant shaking and jostling they take. You can tell there was serious design efforts spent making sure they would hold up so well under such harsh conditions. You can tell they also spend more money on getting that aspect of the trailer correct as well.

[chuckster57]

I often wonder who makes the decision on what type of slide mechanism to use.

[Gegrad]

I have always wondered that as well Chuck. And why do certain manufacturers, or more specifically, certain models use one kind over another from a different model.

Well, in any case, I am off to camp for the weekend. Mid 80s all weekend.

[Tinner12002]

I know what you mean as far as quality and the way they spit them out at the factories, been through 4-5 different ones with the cookie cutter ones all being about the same. People running over people to get their job done. I do have to admit that I couldn't find anything on our PDI walk thru and after one weekend out camping only couch slide overhead lights don't work, all mechanicals seem to be working as they should so maybe I got one that was built in the middle of the week! Lol!

[chuckster57]

I spent 3 days on the factory floor of a high end motorhome plant. Very eye opening!!

[earlzach]

One thing I should have considered, This piece may have been made somewhere else and used on Passports. It may have been assembled in China and removed from a box to be added to the trailer. If it was done there then back to shame on them. Still shouldn't have passed a QA inspector but it did in fact seem to get by many sets of eyes. After Reading some posts I feel the vent would have been satisfactory to some. Maybe the video doesn't really bring out the slop. But anyway its going to be fixed. That has been confirmed and this is not the standard of quality the dealership wants to be seeing. Its nice to have at the very least the dealer on the side of the consumer.

[CrazyCain]

As chuckster said, it's about cost vs profit. I'd urge anyone so visits near Goshen to schedule a visit to the factory. You'll come away with a better understanding of how these "rolling houses" are built and a better appreciation for the engineering that goes into constructing a house that can sustain a 70 MPH wind while bouncing over roads that would equal an earthquake of major size. We tend to focus on the "small stuff" like fingerprints while losing appreciation for the real quality that keeps these things from falling apart at the first "bump in the road" ...

Sure, it would be great if they were delivered with no problems, but given a choice, I'll choose one with the structural integrity and a fingerprint over one that "looks pretty".... WMMV....


Never thought of it that whay John, i will look at the Hidout out behind me totally different now, which btw has had "Zero" problems all year...

:cool:

[cvin]

I agree with the OP these things are not well made and there is no quality control

I have a 2015 the first owner used 5 times and have pretty much had every system on worked in the first 3 months of use

Scheduled for more work tomorrow because the black tank is leaking somwhere underneath AND now the furnance is not relighting automatically and it is going to be 34 tonite, i am in a GREAT mood now
This is the last keystone for me regardless if all of them are made like this or not

And i had to flag down a guy in a keystone laredo today on the interstate whose entire front roof area, 10 foot or so was lifted up with a huge air bubble and probably about to split

They were at least 30 miles from any kind of dealer or repair shop so it probably did split or roll back to the ac by the time they got it anywhere

These things are junk and i never would have bought this one knowing the constant problems i was going to deal with

I have had other campers and a living quarters horse trailer and none them have been like this , and they were all much older units

Think i am still in shock that i am going to be up all night every hour turning the thermostat on and off to get the furnace to relight, just wow

[Dave W]

We were probably pretty lucky in that our '14 had minimal problems that either the dealer or I worked out. Unfortunately, like automobiles or even the S&B homes, others don't have the same experiences. I've spoken to a bunch of folks in our 20,000 plus miles of travel in the past 3 years with the current 5er about their experiences and have heard some real horror stories but most are happy with what they have and the problems have gone away, one way or another. Some of the problems are really nasty while others, well I just would have just fixed and forgotten. All about expectations. If you feel the need to read about pain, look at some of the experiences folks have had with their 6 figure class A MHs that spend months at a dealer for problems.

The OP has every right to expect that he wouldn't see a gummy fingerprint and it sounds like the dealer will be doing the right thing by supplying a new part and the owner will tow off into the sunset with never another problem.

[PARAPTOR]

Not to keep :horse:
I do not think the manufacturing process was ever intended to stop at the factory floor but be at least a two tier process. Dealers are paid to go over these units and identify/resolve discrepancies not addressed on the factory floor based on its production quotas. I can see where this tiered process can work if the two parties do their part. I also can see another model where all discrepancy are caught and fixed on the factory floor, stopping a production line is not cheap. This model could even promote direct shipment factory to customer.

Having said that, here is where the tiered process breaks down. Dealers use that allocated prep money to adjust the selling price and do little or nothing to prep the unit for delivery to the customer. Cheapest price :nonono: Then here comes the customer accepting the unit without doing their own or joint pre-delivery inspection. :banghead: thinking the dealer has already adequately done their job preparing the unit.

As I started in one of my previous post, for a true durability comparison one needs to compare these units with say a stick home in constant earth quake and tornado :popcorn: Think engineers have done their job designing these unit to withstand the environment they are put in :hide:

[2 Good Life]

Welcome to Thor Product Ownership!
Where Pride and Quality don't exist!!!

[PARAPTOR]

Not convinced that other manufactures do not have the same issues and production model :popcorn:

[chuckster57]

Actually the factory DOESNT pay for a tech to go over each unit. It's paid by the customer, and is usually listed on the sales contract. How much is charged is set by the dealer.

When a unit arrives at the dealer, it is inspected for any shipping damage or obvious defect. This is noted on a D.A.F. (Dealer acceptance form) That the driver and dealership employee both sign.

When the unit is PDI'd by a tech, that's when all systems are supposed to be tested, fit and finish reviewed and any discrepancies are noted. These isssues are dealt with and documentation that includes pictures and labor times are submitted for payment by the factory.

It is getting harder and harder to get payment from some manufacturers and our dealership is talking about dropping those lines.

[cvin]

i dont know what the solution is but have to say there is nothing impressive about my experience with this trailer
or hearing of others experiences

keystone only got my business because they were the only ones that had this stupid front load toy hauler model lol
but they have lost it for my next 5th wheel toy hauler

i dont live my life or run my business to the lowest common denominator and that is how these trailer manufacturers seem to work

as long as no one else is doing better, well cool
unbelievable

am SOOOOO happy that i did not buy a new one, that was entirely my plan to get a new 2017
holy cow
i would be LIVID and i am close to that now

about to start a new thread on my furnace issues....

been another lovely day completely wasted on nothing but trailer repairs and diagnosis

this entire summer i have had 2 weekends where this trailer did not have some kind of issue

[jsmith948]

If I were that unhappy, I would give it away, sell it or burn it. Touch wood, we've had our Cougar for a little over 6 years...no issues of any import.

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[earlzach]

If I were that unhappy, I would give it away, sell it or burn it. Touch wood, we've had our Cougar for a little over 6 years...no issues of any import.

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Wow, how deep did you read into it? If you have had "no" issues then you possibly couldn't understand the "BIT" of frustration I had to see the sloppy glue job.
Please try not to embellish an unrealistic attitude. It wasn't like that at all.
Starting to believe this site rejects the fission of fails or mistakes. I can't believe we all have so much money to burn that we should just praise what we end up with.
No hard feelings, glad yours was perfect. I can only wish I had the same experience.

[jsmith948]

Wasn't/isn't perfect...I have fixed lots of minor fit and trim issues, loose screws, etc. To me, it's just part of RV ownership. I actually enjoy and take pride in "keeping it up" myself. To each his own.

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[madmaxmutt]

Wasn't/isn't perfect...I have fixed lots of minor fit and trim issues, loose screws, etc. To me, it's just part of RV ownership. I actually enjoy and take pride in "keeping it up" myself. To each his own.

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using TapatalkI guess that is a big part of the problem with the industry. We all just grin and bear it. Until, the manufacturer's feel either financial or regulatory pressure, they will keep doing what they do.

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[chuckster57]

You have to keep in mind that in this age of robotics that can do the exact same thing over and over again with exact precision, RV's are still built by humans.

[earlzach]

At least my shipping and dealer prep fees were waived, also brought my own financing, they charge 1500. More to use their lenders. I brought 3.5 interest rate and they couldn't match it so they waived that BS penalty. Plus 7000 off Msrp and only had to give a 100.00 deposits/ Reserve to have this brought up from VA. I got the check back. It was a refundable hold. I still have the new buyer perks nothing was removed from my deal despite the savings. For now I'll let them replace the molding and cover. As far as I can tell I'm going to be good to go. So far everything seems to work fine, and looks great. Maybe that's why the hatch looked so bad.

[madmaxmutt]

I think people are perfectly capable, but quality takes effort, desire, drive, oversight and backing from all levels of the organization.

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[JRTJH]

I guess that is a big part of the problem with the industry. We all just grin and bear it. Until, the manufacturer's feel either financial or regulatory pressure, they will keep doing what they do.

I think (my opinion, not based on any accepted factual data), is that "we" (you, me and the vast majority of owners) are not a "big part of the problem". Keystone already has our money, we don't have much input into their future quality... Those who do, the future owners, the ones that are currently standing in line with a "fistful of money" complaining that the next shipment from Goshen hasn't yet arrived and they are getting impatient, they are the only ones that can "affect a change in quality". If they stop buying, Keystone (and other manufacturers) will be forced to change the quality standards, but with so much available credit (almost anyone can get 12 year financing with no money down) it's really no "skin off their nose" if they fail, so the attitude of "let's go get a travel trailer to tow behind our SUV, heck they're offering 1% financing with no money down and it's only $179 a month. That's less than one night for 2 rooms at Motel 6 and it's got a kitchen so no food costs. That makes it cheaper than Motel 6 ofr our vacation this year. Such a deal !!!!!

As long as that "thinking prevails" Goshen isn't going to change. Right now they are selling every one they can build as fast as they can push them out the door. It has nothing to do with those of us who "caused the quality problems last year or the year before".....

I know, I know, "blame it on the noobies"...... :whistling:

[sourdough]

Wow, how deep did you read into it? If you have had "no" issues then you possibly couldn't understand the "BIT" of frustration I had to see the sloppy glue job.
Please try not to embellish an unrealistic attitude. It wasn't like that at all.
Starting to believe this site rejects the fission of fails or mistakes. I can't believe we all have so much money to burn that we should just praise what we end up with.
No hard feelings, glad yours was perfect. I can only wish I had the same experience.


I think jsmith may have been referring to the post from cvin (my take when reading) but I could be wrong.

I don't think anyone on this site rejects the fact that there are mistakes and fails in the production of an RV....ANY and ALL RVs. Some get units that have no flaws, some with a few and some with lots. It's NOT a Keystone issue, it's RV manufacturing in general. I've owned several different brands other than Keystone and every single one had issues; and that's over a span of decades and nothing has changed. My brother has bough 2 5th wheels in the last few years (neither Keystone) and mine is a much better coach IMO. It is the way it is and if you don't accept it you are just heckbound to make yourself miserable. Wishing it was different, comparing to auto manufacturers etc. is just wasted time and effort. As John pointed out, there is zero incentive for the manufacturers to change their business model.....none - so why would they? Why would anyone think they were going to?

If you are going to own an RV you have to have your head in the game. The game of RV ownership. You have to know how it works, why it works and accept it or you are doomed to a life of frustration. Those of us that own them and are happy, regardless of how many flaws we find (and I've had far beyond my share on this one) understand this and take the good with the bad. I've had my trailer in the shop almost as much as I've used it but I love it - and in fact it's helped me learn a LOT. Do I fault Keystone? The dealer? Fate? The world? Not really. I knew buying it that it could have problems. I did everything I could to assure it didn't before I left with it. So did the dealer. There are just some things you can't see. As far as Keystone, they had the best floorplan, construction and pricing compared to all the others I compared - the very best. Did someone miss the boat on some of the parts installed? Yes. Does that happen everyday in RV construction? Yes. So, is the answer to go bonkers over money spent on a TOY and ruin your ownership experience? I say no. Do we accept the realities of what it is we're getting into, take care of the issues and move forward having fun? I say yes as well. It's all in the head, your mindset....and I'm normally a really aggressive, no bs, do it my way or else kind of guy; and that's the way I approach any construction done for me, car buying, property etc. etc. but not with the RV. I have a lot of oomph but not enough to motivate Keystone, or any other RV manufacturer, to change their ways.....unless I bought the company....which ain't gonna happen (not THAT much oomph!).....so, where was I?.......back to it's a "mindset". I want an RV so............. (does it start to makes sense now?.......:):ermm:

[chuckster57]

I think jsmith may have been referring to the post from cvin (my take when reading) but I could be wrong.

I don't think anyone on this site rejects the fact that there are mistakes and fails in the production of an RV....ANY and ALL RVs. Some get units that have no flaws, some with a few and some with lots. It's NOT a Keystone issue, it's RV manufacturing in general. I've owned several different brands other than Keystone and every single one had issues; and that's over a span of decades and nothing has changed. My brother has bough 2 5th wheels in the last few years (neither Keystone) and mine is a much better coach IMO. It is the way it is and if you don't accept it you are just heckbound to make yourself miserable. Wishing it was different, comparing to auto manufacturers etc. is just wasted time and effort. As John pointed out, there is zero incentive for the manufacturers to change their business model.....none - so why would they? Why would anyone think they were going to?

If you are going to own an RV you have to have your head in the game. The game of RV ownership. You have to know how it works, why it works and accept it or you are doomed to a life of frustration. Those of us that own them and are happy, regardless of how many flaws we find (and I've had far beyond my share on this one) understand this and take the good with the bad. I've had my trailer in the shop almost as much as I've used it but I love it - and in fact it's helped me learn a LOT. Do I fault Keystone? The dealer? Fate? The world? Not really. I knew buying it that it could have problems. I did everything I could to assure it didn't before I left with it. So did the dealer. There are just some things you can't see. As far as Keystone, they had the best floorplan, construction and pricing compared to all the others I compared - the very best. Did someone miss the boat on some of the parts installed? Yes. Does that happen everyday in RV construction? Yes. So, is the answer to go bonkers over money spent on a TOY and ruin your ownership experience? I say no. Do we accept the realities of what it is we're getting into, take care of the issues and move forward having fun? I say yes as well. It's all in the head, your mindset....and I'm normally a really aggressive, no bs, do it my way or else kind of guy; and that's the way I approach any construction done for me, car buying, property etc. etc. but not with the RV. I have a lot of oomph but not enough to motivate Keystone, or any other RV manufacturer, to change their ways.....unless I bought the company....which ain't gonna happen (not THAT much oomph!).....so, where was I?.......back to it's a "mindset". I want an RV so............. (does it start to makes sense now?.......:):ermm:
Well stated. And I too,thought it was directed to cvin.

[JRTJH]

^^ What sourdough said and what chuckster says about what he said.....

[madmaxmutt]

I am guessing, you didn't read my entire post. Financial pressure from us the customers, current and future, is what you just wrote about. The regulatory pressure I hope to see some day, is focused on the useless tires they deliver. If we continue to accept what is delivered substandard (to our expectations), then we get what we ask for.

Edit: I don't want to be an apologist for the industry. Hence, my turning down a trailer delivered with a suspect roof.

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[earlzach]

I am guessing, you didn't read my entire post. Financial pressure from us the customers, current and future, is what you just wrote about. The regulatory pressure I hope to see some day, is focused on the useless tires they deliver. If we continue to accept what is delivered substandard (to our expectations), then we get what we ask for.

Edit: I don't want to be an apologist for the industry. Hence, my turning down a trailer delivered with a suspect roof.

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This was my second trailer. The first was poorly treated while on the dealers lot. There was nothing they could do short of giving me the trailer to take it. This is why we had a second unit brought up from Va. I made it clear not to put it on there lot. It never left there service bay untill I pulled it out four days after it arrived.
Even if I would have seen the glue mess I would have not rejected it. But as it is still going to be I would have made it clear it would need fixed. It sounds to me I made out much better than I could have.

[madmaxmutt]

This was my second trailer. The first was poorly treated while on the dealers lot. There was nothing they could do short of giving me the trailer to take it. This is why we had a second unit brought up from Va. I made it clear not to put it on there lot. It never left there service bay unroll I pulled it out four days after it arrived.
Even if I would have seen the glue mess I would have not rejected it. But as it is still going to be I would have made it clear it would need fixed. It sounds to me I made out much better than I could have.Sorry, the quote didn't work on that post (love Tapatalk [emoji33] ). That was in response to someone else who quoted me.

I agree the little stuff can be taken care of locally, I just wish the dealerships would do it before we show up.

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[SummitPond]

... That's less than one night for 2 rooms at Motel 6 and it's got a kitchen so no food costs. That makes it cheaper than Motel 6 ofr our vacation this year. Such a deal !!!!! ...

Not an attempt to hijack ... I really don't remember Motel 6 while growing up; the family stayed at Holiday Inn or HoJo before we started camping. But after I married we occasionally stayed at an 8 Days Inn - $8 a night. Amazing the increase in price ... of everything!

[JRTJH]

Not an attempt to hijack ... I really don't remember Motel 6 while growing up; the family stayed at Holiday Inn or HoJo before we started camping. But after I married we occasionally stayed at an 8 Days Inn - $8 a night. Amazing the increase in price ... of everything!

To compare, our first "real travel trailer" was a 1968 Airstream 26' International that we bought new in 1969 for $6800. We were going to trade it for a new 31' International in 1970, but couldn't justify the price of $9100, so we kept our "old one"..... That same trailer today is over $80k and a 31' Airstream is well over $130k. We pulled it with a Dodge 3/4 ton truck that we bought new for $3600.

So, yup, it's "amazing the increase in price... of everything!

[Desert185]

Prices can be relative to income, though. When I was a kid some of the stuff I wanted was a year's income. Now, depending what it is, it's still a year's income for may folks.

[cvin]

I agree with what sourdough said but also think we as the buying public allow this

Agree there is no answer other than build a custom trailer at my trailer guys shop


The difference here is this is a toy hauler but for me it is not a toy, I bought this for WORK, to cut down on the 60,000 miles a year I am driving

If I wanted a toy this would definitely not have been the rv I would have picked

So every time this is down, I am driving to get parts, waiting on mobile rv guy etc I am losing money in addition to time

I am not retired and am not using this for weekends/vacations
it was bought to make my job more efficient

Money wise none of this has not cost a lot in parts or labor, but hassle and lost time is way over the top

Guess I am where a lot of people are that I have worked or repaired every system and surely am getting to the end of the problems....

[sourdough]

I agree with what sourdough said but also think we as the buying public allow this

Agree there is no answer other than build a custom trailer at my trailer guys shop


The difference here is this is a toy hauler but for me it is not a toy, I bought this for WORK, to cut down on the 60,000 miles a year I am driving

If I wanted a toy this would definitely not have been the rv I would have picked

So every time this is down, I am driving to get parts, waiting on mobile rv guy etc I am losing money in addition to time




I am not retired and am not using this for weekends/vacations
it was bought to make my job more efficient

Money wise none of this has not cost a lot in parts or labor, but hassle and lost time is way over the top

Guess I am where a lot of people are that I have worked or repaired every system and surely am getting to the end of the problems....


Yes, the buying public propagates the status quo by buying up every unit made regardless of the problems. They DON'T WANT to pay the price for a unit that would be turned out with zero problems.

As far as work vs retirement/vacation etc. I agree wholeheartedly that having the pressure of the need to get work done while the RV keeps giving problems would get a person upset....it would have me frothing at the mouth. I think the problem with the situation is the "status quo", meaning the RVs have issues and there aren't many ways around that. As you said, hopefully you've worked on the various systems and you are getting close to getting the bugs worked out. Many/most of us have worked through that as well. Plus, if I recall it is a 2 year old, unused RV by the sellers account so that in itself can present problems. The only recourse I can see is to buy another NEW trailer and hope you get one with no issues. Here's to hoping you have just about rounded the corner on problems and are about to hit the clear, problem free highway.

[Tbos]

Chuckster57, that is good info to know about ordering one. I had not thought about that.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[cvin]

dont know about others but i would have gladly paid more for my trailer to be better built and more reliable
I had planned to spend double this amount and would have had no problems doing that especially if i had no issues

But the trailer i bought is not common around here, maybe someone could have ordered me one and had it shipped but i never saw one on a lot except in northern states

And I do not think the issues on my trailer were from it not getting used much, most of this stuff worked for a while or worked half ***

The relay in the control board for the ac did not freeze open from none use, find it hard to beleive the furnace fan motor is weak/not working well from none use, the interior of both these devices is pristine so not dirty, dusty etc

A good friend of mine bough a brand new jayco higher end tt and ended up sueing the dealer because they had so many problems with it, the dealer agreed to give them a new one and this second/new one rolled out for the pdi with no working water pump and the first time they used it the microwave cabinet came half off the wall

I dont know what to say other than this is definitely a flawed business model, which i realize we all agree on

It just stumps me because i need to go up to a 5th wheel in a couple of years and now i have no idea what i am going to do, definitely not buying new because i dont trust that either and i travel too much so trying to have one dealer fix issues is not going to work

Will seriously consider building one, my trailer guy builds way better trailers than this and we could build one where all the components would be accesible for work

Here is the kicker, i dont want to go to the trouble of building an rv but it seems if i want to get a more reliable one that may be the way to go

[chuckster57]

If you do build one please take lots of pics and share them.

Not buying new has the advantage of not taking the depreciation hit, but on the other hand, I have found time and again people trade in because they don't want to deal with the issues it had. There isn't a "car fax" for RV's so you'll have no idea how the P.O. Treated it or serviced it and if the selling dealer addressed them. Buying used is always "AS IS" and yes I worked for a short time for a dealer that hid major issues. In the end it's all about doing your homework and having a quality dealer.

[JRTJH]

To add my thoughts to chuckster's comments: Buying used is almost always a "pig in a poke" situation. You never know what the previous owner actually did (or didn't do), only what he says happened... Given that he wants you to buy what he's selling, unless you know his integrity, you may be "sold down the river"...

I honestly don't know how to buy used and know you're getting a quality product other than to "just be lucky".... There's so much that is hidden in an RV and so much that can be ignored (until you need it) and so much that can be damaged and not be identified (until it's too late). Heck, it's a "nightmare" getting things fixed on a new one with warranty. I'd think it's near impossible (at least improbable) to expect a used one to be "flawless" when towed off the lot or out of the previous owner's driveway, and with the "as is/where is" purchase, it could get very expensive very quick.

When the story you hear is, "We only camped in it 3 times" and the rest of the story is, "the water pump wouldn't work, the water heater leaked, the refrigerator wouldn't cool, the A/C wouldn't cool, the furnace wouldn't heat and the floor is "squishy" which is why we put a chair in that corner where the floor gets wet every time it rains, and the dealer is on the other side of the country and the local guy refused to fix the stuff that won't work, so we are upset and selling it so we don't have to deal with it"...... And you ask, "Is there anything wrong with it?" and the answer is, "No, nothing that we haven't already addressed."..... Hmmmmm

[Dave W]

To add my thoughts to chuckster's comments: Buying used is almost always a "pig in a poke" situation. ..... Hmmmmm

Which is why you do a several hour PDI, new or used. from top to bottom after throwing the salesman out of the door

[JRTJH]

Which is why you do a several hour PDI, new or used. from top to bottom after throwing the salesman out of the door

And even with that extensive PDI, you still won't find the damp FILON backing behind the clearance light, the dripping "T" fitting under the floor that's making the insulation wet (but isn't wet enough to drip out of the coroplast, the 4 staples on the third rafter that missed the OSB under the TPO roof membrane (but haven't yet pulled out and poked a hole in the TPO) or the split in the air conditioner ducting between the bedroom and bathroom vents..... The list could go on for days and days.....

As complex as RV's are and with the "earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes" they are subjected to while towing, no matter how close you look, there's still better than 50% that you can't see and that can be a problem.

Find a 4 leaf clover or take your rabbit's foot with you when you throw that shaker of salt over your shoulder when you go to buy any RV.

[Dave W]

And even with that extensive PDI, you still won't find etc, etc, etc.

True but you may be a heluva lot further ahead then the folks who walked through a used RV, got impressed by the bling, signed some paperwork and hooked their TV up and drove off into the sunset. A used trailer like anything else preowned can be a blessing or disaster and is not always a negative transaction. Some folks just wont/can't take the big dollar loss of a new RV as they cross the stealershios property line. Until the current 5er, the 7 previous RVs were preowned and nothing of significance was wrong with any of them including the 5er that was 'dropped' on a truck bed.

[Gegrad]

Just my observation, the above arguments are good reasons why a 3-4 year old used RV is a good buy. It is enough time for the major depreciation to hit, but not long enough for everything to truly fall apart yet. It is also enough time that the missed roof staple that will poke its head out of the TPO, or the bad roof sealant allowing a leak will have softened the walls/floor, or the dripping T valve will have made themseleves apparent by year 3 or 4. So if you find one that doesn't have the problems, either you found a good one, or they have been repaired.

For example, this summer while shopping, I passed on another 2014 29bh when I inspected it pre-purchase and observed that the lower fascia on the main slide was swollen and wet. So either a seal had leaked or something else. The dealer tried to give me a dicscount and offered to repair it, but I had abad gut feeling, so I walked away. The roof also had extensive sealant and look worse for the wear. I passed and found my current one which had nothing more than some superficial flaws. I might be biased though. ;)

[Desert185]

Georad: "I might be biased though."

Nope. I'm that way with cars/pickups. Bought very few new one's over the years. Had less trouble with the used ones.

[chuckster57]

To each their own. All 4 of mine have been bought new.
First one was lost in a flood
Second traded in after 1 year no issues just didn't like the colors
Third sold after 13 1/2 yrs, too heavy. Only issue was a split black tank and a slide motor.

[Gegrad]

Third sold after 13 1/2 yrs, too heavy. Only issue was a split black tank and a slide motor.

Those were the only two non-maintenance issues you had during the 13 1/2 years? Or the only two items wrong with it when you sold it?

[chuckster57]

Issues I dealt with. Motor had plastic gears. Open belly so I don't know what I hit to split the tank.

[Tinner12002]

Sewer pipe from 1/2 bath drops out ahead of center axle then turns and sits right on top of u-bolts for spring pack...some wasn't thinking or paying attention on that one!!

[Tinner12002]

Sewer pipe from 1/2 bath drops out ahead of center axle then turns and sits right on top of u-bolts for spring pack...some wasn't thinking or paying attention on that one!!

Not sure why they ended upside down...even flipped them upside down when I uploaded them the second time after they were flipped on the first upload thinking they would be right side up, go figure...need a way to rotate pics here I guess. I think I will be changing that after we get back from Taladegga and turning elbow toward the front where the main dump tube is at. Better to have them side by side than one in front of axles and one in the rear of the axles!

[SummitPond]

Not sure why they ended upside down...even flipped them upside down when I uploaded them the second time after they were flipped on the first upload thinking they would be right side up, go figure...need a way to rotate pics here I guess. ...

I have similar issues with photos taken with the phone but not the digital SLR. I import the phone pix into the Win-doze PAINT program, flip them twice (use control-R) and re-save. That seems to do the trick. Why this is an issue is beyond me.