Wholesale dealers

[Swell Camping]

Does anyone have experience with RV Outlet USA? They have offered a price far below what my local dealer can offer on the Raptor 355ts. They are about 200 miles from me v. the 60 miles for my local dealer when I need repairs. Are these wholesale dealers reputable? Is their volume so high they really can discount the units so steeply or do I need to be on the lookout for hidden costs and fees? Thanks in advance for your expertise!

[canesfan]

Bought mine there. Not just because of price, but because of everything. No games, no muss, no fuss. They are 4 hours or so from me but I drive by them twice a year so if I need anything I know I'll be over that way. I know others who have bought there and traveled good distances to do so. At least one is on this forum, probably others I don't know of are too. They have people come from all over the country and also deliver them. I have gotten service when I needed it by calling and telling them when I'll be over that way and them getting me in when I get there. I have yet to have to leave my RV there for anything. This is the first unit I have bought from them but unless things change they will be the first place I look for the next one and would probably buy even if they weren't "the cheapest". I had been stopping in there for a few years window shopping when I was looking for this one, and after seeing everything had already decided that that was where I wanted to buy, "cheapest" or not. Others will tell you to buy local because of service. There's only one place I would buy local (within 2-3 hours) from and they don't sell anything I want to buy. YMMV

[Swell Camping]

Thank you. Exactly what I was hoping to hear. The sales person I'm working with seems fantastic.

[dcg9381]

Swell,
I'll give you the same warning as others:
Keystone salesmen sometimes indicate "nationwide network of dealers for warranty work" - and technically this is correct.

I don't know that any Keystone dealer can refuse to warranty one of their products, but I DO know that they any dealer can say that they are backlogged for months (think 6 months, that was the answer I got when calling a Keystone dealer for warranty work on the road). A local dealer will do repairs, but again, how quickly and how well they do them tends to vary quite a bit.

I'd venture to say - and this is just my opinion - that most new Keystone RVs will need some repairs. I'd expect relatively minor, but if you're unlucky (like I was) you're looking at major....

You're gambling lower cost against making it harder (perhaps much harder) to get warranty service. You may be betting right (hopefully). If you bet wrong, it can be a real cluster.

Personally, I'd probably roll the dice on it, but I just want you to know what you are looking... NEW RVs do not have the same quality as new cars, nor are "dealer" repairs nearly as successful.

[CaptnJohn]

Swell,
I'll give you the same warning as others:
Keystone salesmen sometimes indicate "nationwide network of dealers for warranty work" - and technically this is correct.

I don't know that any Keystone dealer can refuse to warranty one of their products, but I DO know that they any dealer can say that they are backlogged for months (think 6 months, that was the answer I got when calling a Keystone dealer for warranty work on the road). A local dealer will do repairs, but again, how quickly and how well they do them tends to vary quite a bit.

I'd venture to say - and this is just my opinion - that most new Keystone RVs will need some repairs. I'd expect relatively minor, but if you're unlucky (like I was) you're looking at major....

You're gambling lower cost against making it harder (perhaps much harder) to get warranty service. You may be betting right (hopefully). If you bet wrong, it can be a real cluster.

Personally, I'd probably roll the dice on it, but I just want you to know what you are looking... NEW RVs do not have the same quality as new cars, nor are "dealer" repairs nearly as successful.


I agree with all you said EXCEPT Keystone dealers have to repair Keystone products. Some will ask if you bought the unit there. If the answer is no they will tell you they will not work on it, especially warranty items. Some will only work on it after warranty, others will work on it no matter what. Remember, new sales are prepped 1st, prior customers 2nd, paying customers 3rd, warranty from other dealers last, if at all.

[John&Genny]

I would imagine that if a dealer refuses work because someone didn't buy their RV there, they would be in violation of the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. The same act that protects consumers from a car dealer refusing warranty work on your car because you had the oil changed by Grease Monkey. Of course, they can still refuse the work accepting the risk that you will not take them to court which would probably cause more heartache than it's worth. Usually in that case, it's best just to find a dealer who will do the work.

[Outback 325BH]

I would imagine that if a dealer refuses work because someone didn't buy their RV there, they would be in violation of the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. The same act that protects consumers from a car dealer refusing warranty work on your car because you had the oil changed by Grease Monkey. Of course, they can still refuse the work accepting the risk that you will not take them to court which would probably cause more heartache than it's worth. Usually in that case, it's best just to find a dealer who will do the work.



Nope.

Camper dealers are under no obligation to do warranty work.


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[ctbruce]

There is always the possibility of finding an independent rv repair shop that does warranty work.

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[canesfan]

Thank you. Exactly what I was hoping to hear. The sales person I'm working with seems fantastic.

Who are you working with? Most of the people there, sales, shop, ownership, have all been there pretty much as long as I've been going in there, quite a few years. Most of them know me on a first name basis. It's nice to be treated like a good, long time, valued customer, even though I've only bought one thing there.

[chuckster57]

Nope.

Camper dealers are under no obligation to do warranty work.


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BINGO!! We regularly get customers from 2 other dealers that WON'T do any warranty work on anything they sell.

[Swell Camping]

Who are you working with? Most of the people there, sales, shop, ownership, have all been there pretty much as long as I've been going in there, quite a few years. Most of them know me on a first name basis. It's nice to be treated like a good, long time, valued customer, even though I've only bought one thing there.

CanesFan

Her name is Dawn.

[dcg9381]

I agree with all you said EXCEPT Keystone dealers have to repair Keystone products. Some will ask if you bought the unit there. If the answer is no they will tell you they will not work on it, especially warranty items. Some will only work on it after warranty, others will work on it no matter what. Remember, new sales are prepped 1st, prior customers 2nd, paying customers 3rd, warranty from other dealers last, if at all.


This is just my guess - based on nothing.
My guess is that if you want to sell Keystone's products that part of that deal is that you have to agree to warranty Keystone's products. I believe this is why Keystone salesmen can say that the warranty is "nationwide" and if you call Keystone support on the road, they'll just help you find the local dealer.

I, myself, have never been told "no" to warranty work, but I have had dealers simply give me ridiculous wait times (6 months for something really simple).

You may very well be right that they are only required to work on what they sell, but in that case, there wouldn't be a "nationwide" warranty at all.....

Someone that owns an RV dealership would need to tell us.

[dcg9381]

Nope.

Camper dealers are under no obligation to do warranty work.

It's interesting. Someone is on the hook for Magnuson-Moss. Standard sales contracts and Keystone's verbiage put warranty repair responsibility FIRMLY on the dealer, but you'd be suing Keystone for a violation of Magnuson-Moss.. However that sorts out.

Selling Keystone's - especially dealers doing hundreds of units a month and not servicing them, I'd think that would be a serious win-win for the dealership.

[CaptnJohn]

It's interesting. Someone is on the hook for Magnuson-Moss. Standard sales contracts and Keystone's verbiage put warranty repair responsibility FIRMLY on the dealer, but you'd be suing Keystone for a violation of Magnuson-Moss.. However that sorts out.



Selling Keystone's - especially dealers doing hundreds of units a month and not servicing them, I'd think that would be a serious win-win for the dealership.



Some dealers make it so difficult to get service they really hardly service what they sell. A little research will show units sitting months before looked at and longer before parts are ordered


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[chuckster57]

Some clarification: RV dealers get to decide which brand/model they want to sell with the only limiting factor being geographic location of another dealer selling the same model.
ANY dealer can decide at ANY TIME, NOT to sell any given brand/model. The only manufacturer that I can say will "force" a dealership to do warranty work on either customer or non customer's units is Tiffen. That's based on conversations I've had with our VP. There may be others but I'm not aware of them. Even then we have the right to limit the list of customer concerns to 5.

As I posted earlier, we regularly get calls from customers that bought from one of two dealers near by that won't service what they sell.

[xrated]

I'm the "other" forum member that bought from RV Outlet USA. I live in the Knoxville, TN area and searched a large area around Knoxville last October for the exact T.H. that I wanted. I couldn't find anything local so I expanded my search for the Impact 303. RV Outlet USA popper up and they had a 2016 advertised. I called first thing on Monday and that unit had been sold over the weekend. I was told that they had a another one coming in, but it would be a 2017, and of course I expected a big price difference. The salesman checked and it had actually arrived and was on site. He quoted the price for me and it was less than $300 more than the '16 that they just sold.

We did the complete deal over the phone except the normal signing of paperwork. His name is Randy and I couldn't have asked for a better person to work with on the purchase. I explained to him that since was my first ever camping type trailer, I was going to need an extended PDI walkthough and it happened with no problems. The entire experience was silky smooth from start to finish and I am 100% happy with the dealership....although I've not taken it back for any issues....I've taken care of a few things myself. I drove 375 miles to the dealership in Ringold, VA from Knoxville and I have to say, it was all good.

[scottz]

I purchased from RV Outlet USA in April. I drove from Colorado to pick it up, but I had other business in VA. I worked with Kelly and he has great. I also did everything over the phone and when I arrived to pick it up everything was as expected. Purchasing locally was not an option for me, the nearest dealer for the unit I wanted is 5 hours away so I figured I might as well travel further a get a good price. The discount was staggering compared to a couple other quotes I got.

As for the warranty service, I do most repair work myself. I hope I won't have any major problems that require warranty work, but it is only good for a year in any case; after that I will be a paying customer. If a dealer is going to turn me away because I did not purchase from them, I don't want to do business with them; and probably would not trust them either.

This whole issue gives the RV dealers that won't provide service a bad rep. I own a Ford and can get it serviced anywhere in the country; no problems.

These dealers need to understand that RV's have wheels on them and are designed to travel; problems can occur anywhere. What about full-timers that move around the country?

I would not hesitate to purchase from RV Outlets USA again.

[sourdough]

I purchased from RV Outlet USA in April. I drove from Colorado to pick it up, but I had other business in VA. I worked with Kelly and he has great. I also did everything over the phone and when I arrived to pick it up everything was as expected. Purchasing locally was not an option for me, the nearest dealer for the unit I wanted is 5 hours away so I figured I might as well travel further a get a good price. The discount was staggering compared to a couple other quotes I got.

As for the warranty service, I do most repair work myself. I hope I won't have any major problems that require warranty work, but it is only good for a year in any case; after that I will be a paying customer. If a dealer is going to turn me away because I did not purchase from them, I don't want to do business with them; and probably would not trust them either.

This whole issue gives the RV dealers that won't provide service a bad rep. I own a Ford and can get it serviced anywhere in the country; no problems.

These dealers need to understand that RV's have wheels on them and are designed to travel; problems can occur anywhere. What about full-timers that move around the country?

I would not hesitate to purchase from RV Outlets USA again.


Understand that your local RV dealer is not a "Ford" dealership. They sell lots of "brands". The comparison of car dealerships and RV dealerships is like apples and oranges.

[scottz]

Understand that your local RV dealer is not a "Ford" dealership. They sell lots of "brands". The comparison of car dealerships and RV dealerships is like apples and oranges.

I feel better now! Oh wait, I paid more for the RV than I did for the Ford.

So, what do we compare them with? Or do we just give them a free ride and a blank check?

We are talking about Keystone dealers servicing Keystone products, apples to apples. In any case, the topic here is the dealer refusing service because the unit was not purchased there.

[chuckster57]

We are talking about Keystone dealers servicing Keystone products, apples to apples. In any case, the topic here is the dealer refusing service because the unit was not purchased there.

And Keystone dealers that refuse service to units they did sell.

[thanket]

I bought my keystone at a wholesale place in Cincinnati. Cougar 337MKS. Very happy with the whole process, even had a trade in. I called my local keystone dealer for warranty work and they told me no because I did not buy the unit there. I had purchased my last trailer off of them less than 2 years ago.. Will never go back again. Called a place closer to where I actually camp and they came to the campground to do the warranty work. Only paid $65 for them to come to me.

[CaptnJohn]

And Keystone dealers that refuse service to units they did sell.



I know a guy with a bike shop that does close to $1 mil annually. Another with a lawn and farm equipment business that does about 10 times that. Buy somewhere else and they will not repair, warranty or cash. RV dealers are not the only ones -----


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[rsl]

I purchased my current unit from a large dealer near Cincinnati, which is a little over 10 hours one way from me. I conducted my including trade in over the phone and through email, it was great process all on the up and up. The price was almost $5k less then I could get from any place locally so I went into the deal very skeptical. I had the warranty work concern also, the salesman assured me Keystone had a nationwide warranty coverage on it and reminded me the factory warranty is short only a year and if anything breaks it probably would not be within a year anyway. I figured the salesman was just trying to sell a unit so I called and followed up with an email to Keystone customer service. I was informed that Keystone requires their dealers to provide warranty repairs to all units regardless of if they are bought there or not. So with that being the last deciding factor I drove the 10 hours and got me a new RV. The dealer had everything ready when we got there, pulled our trade in next to our new RV, did a walk through, signed the paperwork and spent the day moving stuff and going through it with a fine tooth comb making a list of any issues no matter how minor. We spent the night on the dealers lot (they provided electric, a water fill up location, and on site dump station). When we got up the next morning we did a second nit picking, then gave the list to the service manager and went to breakfast. Upon returning from breakfast and checking on status they had about an hour left and then we were on the road home with the punch list items taken care of. Got home found a leaking toilet valve, call the dealer, at my request they just sent me a new one and a spare under warranty.

Almost done with the story I swear.. :)

End of camping season comes along, we have been making a list of minor issues that we wanted taken care of under warranty. I called the local Keystone dealer, they asked me VIN and told me they would not work on it since I didn't buy it there, I explained Keystone advised I could take it to any Keystone dealer. They stood their ground they were not working on it. I called Keystone and explained to them what was going on, they put me on hold then came back and said they had called that dealer, tried to make an appointment to have a unit worked on and were refused. Keystone rep advised me they would write up an incident report a submit it. I asked about the guarantee Keystone had gave me in writing and the response was yes that is our (Keystone) policy but they can still refuse....... Keystone rep advised however they would penalize them by knocking down the discount they get on unit purchases. Keystone rep then suggested another dealer in the area and made the comment that it might be a bad idea for me to take my unit to the dealer that I had Keystone force to work on it and cost them lots of money with the penalty. Keystone rep contacted the other and had them call me to setup an appointment. That dealer fit me in and fixed my unit. Now I am out of warranty and on my 5 year extended warranty which all dealers are happy to accept ($$$$ for them).

[mark1228]

I am an RV dealership owner. RV dealers are different that car dealers in the sense that car dealers are Franchised and therefore there are certain protections and agreements contained in the franchise agreement and one of those is transient warranty work. RV dealers have no franchise protection meaning that Keystone has the right to pull any brand out of my store at any time they want. I also have the right to sell any other brands I want without advising Keystone. The RV dealer agreements are very loose and have almost no protections in place for either party which makes it impossible that Keystone "force" a dealer to do warranty work on something they did not sell. RV dealers are completely independent and make their own business decisions. A Ford dealer can't add a GM brand to his store without Fords approval for example. Keystone will NOT reduce a discount for refusal to do warranty work Keystone is all about as much volume as they can get out the door and refusal to do warranty work and a transient unit will not get in the way of that. The RV warranty relationship is this: Keystone is the paying customer for work performed in my shop. They don't allow me to make money on parts and dictate the time I get paid per job. It is much more profitable to do over the counter work than warranty work so many dealers just elect not to warranty on a unit they did not sell.

[Freeheel4life]

I work at a boat shop and we will do warranty work on boats that were purchased at other dealers. Sure it doesn't pay as much but if we gain a service customer it's money for winterization and out of warranty repairs down the road. Additionally in a world of toys many trade in and move up to new boats in relatively short periods of time. I guess some dealers volume is enough they don't care but to us every happy customer that we can steal/retain from another dealer is a win. Curious why some rv dealers wouldn't feel the same??

[mark1228]

I work at a boat shop and we will do warranty work on boats that were purchased at other dealers. Sure it doesn't pay as much but if we gain a service customer it's money for winterization and out of warranty repairs down the road. Additionally in a world of toys many trade in and move up to new boats in relatively short periods of time. I guess some dealers volume is enough they don't care but to us every happy customer that we can steal/retain from another dealer is a win. Curious why some rv dealers wouldn't feel the same??

Having been in the boat business for 10 years and now in the RV business for 18 I do know that they are similar but also very different. I think for many dealers it really comes down to their individual market. I can't speak for other dealers but for us we are the only dealer providing service in a fairly large geographic area and our shop is honestly busier than I would like. Our service schedule regularly is out 3-5 weeks and we are in a Northern climate with a shorter season so 3-5 weeks is just to long. Our shop has been like this for 10 years. You don't find experienced RV techs so you have to train your own. We have added 7 shop bays and 9 techs over the last 15 years but still can't keep up so it is hard to accept transient warranty work that doesn't pay well when we can't keep up with our existing customers.