not happy with keystone

[sosad]

I have a 2008 montana mountaineer travel trailer. Bought brand new, decals are falling off, lino floor split over this past winter. Bought new decals and asked Keystone customer service for help with lino floor issue. Even offered to split repair cost 50/50. They are not interested. Once unit is off warranty they care less about you. It was their decals and cheap flooring that caused these issues in the first place. Paid top buck for the unit and workmanship sadly to say is crap. Customer service does not exist after warranty period. Will never get another Keystone product again, a word to the wise run from a Keystone product to another dealer that treats a customer with respect and appreciates repeat buisness. Save yourself grieve and shop elsewhere!!!!!

[ftwildernessguy]

Peeling decals and some split vinyl flooring on a unit 2 years out of warranty. Personally, I don't think these are issues that warrant this reaction. Realistically we can't expect these units to remain new forever, and a one year warranty is a one year warranty.

[sosad]

[Glad you feel that way, hopefully you will not experience what othersè have after spending money for the product. QUOTE=ftwildernessguy;14271]Peeling decals and some split vinyl flooring on a unit 2 years out of warranty. Personally, I don't think these are issues that warrant this reaction. Realistically we can't expect these units to remain new forever, and a one year warranty is a one year warranty.[/QUOTE]

[Paul Norwood]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your camper, but it makes me wonder if the extra $1600 dollars for the extended warrantly would have been worth it?

[sosad]

Others who have experienced the same problem tried the extended warranty route only to be told the flooring was covered for one year and one year only. I would rather put the $1600 to repairs after the first year as anything beyond that, extended or not is hard to collect on. Not my first rodeo been the so called extended warranty cash grab route before. Good luck.Sorry to hear about your problems with your camper, but it makes me wonder if the extra $1600 dollars for the extended warrantly would have been worth it?

[jillglat]

we are still under the original warranty with ours and they dont want to fix it. Thier customer service is definetly poor. Once you take it off thier showroom floor its not thier problem anymore. We have major problems with our including windows leaking and holding tanks leaking. We have only had it for 6 months.

[Johnnyfry]

Personally, I think that the dealership is a key part of this picture, pick your dealer carefully. The dealer is the interface to the factory and their cooperation is critical in getting the factory to react. One customer calling the factory is a small voice in the wilderness but a dealer sells many of their product every month and they probably have the right people to call on speed dial.

Same with parts. Keystone is set up to distribute parts through the dealer network and going that route generally works best. You probably won't save any money going direct either because most manufacturers (and i don't care if it is TVs,washing machines, trailers or stereos) protect their dealers and sell to a customer like you and me at full list price and charge shipping to boot.

IMHO,
John

[sosad]

I have decided to use my travel trailer as an example to other potential buyers of RV's that they should look at other products out there before they consider buying Keystone. 2008 model with decals falling off and split flooring throws a lot of people off especially when the tow vehicle a silverado sits there in mint shape. Funny the paint has not peeled off the truck and the dash is not cracked or seats ripped, same year as RV. Great advertising for Keystone, love it!!!!!!

[Handysam]

Curious on the decals, what did you use to wash and wax your unit?

[jje1960]

I feel your pain with the problems with an out of warranty unit, however ...."Hope you are not in sales, since I certainly would not deal with your ignorant attitude!!!!!" this is out of line. Frankly, "ignorant" could describe someone that expects any compensation outside of the legal binding warranty period. Stay on the high-road friend, life and it's reflection points will stay much clearer from that point. We love our Keystone product and hopefully will have better luck and less stress in dealing with out of warranty issues than you have had. Would love to see you out there in RV land sometime and have a drink together.

[ftwildernessguy]

Personally, I am very happy with my Keystone. Have owned it since 2009 and the biggest problem was a missing window screen which my dealer got for me without question.

[Me.Bikes.Dogs]

I feel your pain with the problems with an out of warranty unit, however ...."Hope you are not in sales, since I certainly would not deal with your ignorant attitude!!!!!" this is out of line. Frankly, "ignorant" could describe someone that expects any compensation outside of the legal binding warranty period. Stay on the high-road friend, life and it's reflection points will stay much clearer from that point. We love our Keystone product and hopefully will have better luck and less stress in dealing with out of warranty issues than you have had. Would love to see you out there in RV land sometime and have a drink together.

Here, Here!! Well said.

Personally I think of buying an RV much like buying a fixed-in-one-place house. When you buy a new house you'll probably get a one year warranty. That warranty will offer limited coverage on workmanship and materials relating to various components of the home, such as windows, heating, ventilation and HVAC, plumbing, and electrical systems. It more than likely won't cover cracks in drywall, concrete, tile, etc.

Once that year is up, you are on your own unless a manufacturer's warranty covers the repair. And you probably paid way more for your home and didn't tow it all over the country on our glass smooth U.S. highways. ;) Sometimes after towing my unit over some roads, like through Dallas, I'm shocked it hasn't fallen apart when I open the doors.

Would I like to see Keystone improve some areas? Certainly. But they have price points to make so they figure out where to skimp. If they built a rock solid, never go bad unit, I wouldn't be able to afford it. I know the 5er i have is going to have problems over the years. I'll fix them as they come up and maybe even bitch and moan a bit. But bottom line-- I'm going to enjoy the time I have with her.

Just my 2 cents.

[Handysam]

Here, Here!! Well said.

Personally I think of buying an RV much like buying a fixed-in-one-place house. When you buy a new house you'll probably get a one year warranty. That warranty will offer limited coverage on workmanship and materials relating to various components of the home, such as windows, heating, ventilation and HVAC, plumbing, and electrical systems. It more than likely won't cover cracks in drywall, concrete, tile, etc.

Once that year is up, you are on your own unless a manufacturer's warranty covers the repair. And you probably paid way more for your home and didn't tow it all over the country on our glass smooth U.S. highways. ;) Sometimes after towing my unit over some roads, like through Dallas, I'm shocked it hasn't fallen apart when I open the doors.

Would I like to see Keystone improve some areas? Certainly. But they have price points to make so they figure out where to skimp. If they built a rock solid, never go bad unit, I wouldn't be able to afford it. I know the 5er i have is going to have problems over the years. I'll fix them as they come up and maybe even bitch and moan a bit. But bottom line-- I'm going to enjoy the time I have with her.

Just my 2 cents.

Yes well said indeed. The fact we can tow these things around the country and have the minor things to fix from time to time is amazing in itself. Add the fact that in the harsh winters where there is no heat in there from months on end and in the summer months no cooling from time to time, I think they ALL have done a fine job. Happy Camping, Sam

[j.r.jcfd]

Sosad I feel your pain. I have a 2008 Cougar 316 QBS 5th wheel. Micro wave and airconditionor problems from day one. The company Keystone bought the mirowaves from went bankrupt and said nothing they can do. My Airconditionor trips the breaker everytime it get above 90. Dealership maintenance says nothing wrong with it and bills me.

[Festus2]

Both the Microwave and the A/C should have their own and separate manufacturer's warranty. In many cases, it is good for a 2 year period - irregardless of where Keystone purchased them from. For example, if it was a microwave built by Westinghouse, then you should be able to make a claim through them if, as you say, "it didn't work from Day One".
Oftentimes, the dealer gathers all of the warranty cards, fills them out and sends them in "en masse" eliminating the buyer from having to fill out all of the warranty cards.
Not sure what was done in your case but if you had problems within the warranty period, these issues could have been dealt with. Now that the microwave and the A/C are well past their warranty as well as the 1 year limited Keystone warranty, unfortunately it would appear that you are stuck with the repair bills.
It is a bit of a puzzle as to why these problems were not fixed at the very beginning --- from Day One - as you say while everything was still under both Keystone's and the manufacturers' warranties.

[j.r.jcfd]

Both the Microwave and the A/C should have their own and separate manufacturer's warranty. In many cases, it is good for a 2 year period - irregardless of where Keystone purchased them from. For example, if it was a microwave built by Westinghouse, then you should be able to make a claim through them if, as you say, "it didn't work from Day One".
Oftentimes, the dealer gathers all of the warranty cards, fills them out and sends them in "en masse" eliminating the buyer from having to fill out all of the warranty cards.
Not sure what was done in your case but if you had problems within the warranty period, these issues could have been dealt with. Now that the microwave and the A/C are well past their warranty as well as the 1 year limited Keystone warranty, unfortunately it would appear that you are stuck with the repair bills.
It is a bit of a puzzle as to why these problems were not fixed at the very beginning --- from Day One - as you say while everything was still under both Keystone's and the manufacturers' warranties.

Thanks. I took to the dealership several time during the warranty times and that was their answers to me, was very new in the world of RV's. Slowly learning more and more.

[antiqfreq]

Is your warranty already up?

If not, work with Keystone directly - sometimes you get better results that way.

Jo

[scottm1]

I agree the original poster is overreacting, I also understand his anger. I also agree with several of the replies to his original post. I agree that if Keystone, or any other manufacturer built a camper that was perfect and built to the highest quality standards, we could not afford it and it would be too heavy to pull. However there are many things I find on my Keystone that amazes me how ignorant the people that built it must have been. There are so many things that could have been done to eliminate future problems that don't require any more time or money to do. One thing for example, the wiring that runs from the frame down to the axle for my trailer brakes came from the factory with the wires laying on the springs. I am a fabricator and have built many cars and build street rods from the ground up so I have to factor in future events when determine wire routing to prevent problems. Knowing this, I can assure you that this is a short waiting to happen. Extending that wire just one inch and routing around to the other side would eliminate this potential problem without adding any cost or time. They guy at the factory already has to run the wire, route it, and connect it anyway. Routing it correctly takes no more time. That is just one of many things I can talk about. While I agree that a warranty shouldn't last forever, I feel it is underhanded, deceptive and sneaky to build a product by design to only last until the warranty is up. Like the wiring on the springs, that will likely last until the warranty is up before it cuts through the insulation and blows the fuse on your trailer brake controller since your rv only gets uses a few times a year. Then it is on you to diagnose and repair it, or PAY dearly for someone else to do it if you can't do it yourself. I can, and I do, but I get very frustrated when I feel I have to go behind and fix the things the original guy at the factory could have done right the first time if he just gave a darn. Again, while I agree the original poster overreacted, the manufacturers really don't build these things with any pride, and a trained eye can see this every time you pull off some trim or access panels to look at something. I feel like the designers are very good at utilizing the space, weight, and price restrictions they have to work with, it is the workers in the factory that seem to not give a hoot about the quality in the assembly process.

[therink]

As long as we keep buying them, they will still sell them. I look at it this way: I have all the comforts of home (even better in some areas), for less than $30k. If I paid that much for a lake front cottage, you can bet it would be a fixerupper. Could RVs be built better? Sure. If you think about it, they cram a lot of luxury and convenience into a 35' box for a reasonable cost.
I bought it new, have had a few minor problems, taken care of under warranty. Warranty is now up and the rest I'd up to me. I now choose to use it, properly maintain it and to take care of the problems at my expense as they come up. It will do me no good to complain about my curling decals (yes I have those too). If i dont like them, i will remove them.
I'm just grateful that I can afford to have a luxury item such as an RV. We are taking off this Saturday for two weeks of camping. Life is good.
Steve

[mazboy123]

i wonder if an extended warranty would cover either of these two things? i don't have an extended warranty but i can't image that they would cover either of these issues.

:cool3:

[Beachnut]

Well, in my recent dealings with Keystone they have been very helpful with my sales Dealer created problems! I purchased my "new" Outback 230RS from Barber RV, in Ventura CA. The dealer did not mention that the trailer had been broken into and vandalized while sitting on the dealer lot! Both the entrance door, and toy hauler door had been punctured (hammer head sized holes punched into them), repaired, and non stock decals placed over the repairs to hide the repaired spots, prior our purchase. The un-noticed non stock decals were a close match, but when they began to peel I took it to a closer to home local Keystone dealer to be told of the repairs and damages. The selling dealer refused to fess up to the above until Keystone became involved. Keystone is replacing both doors at no charge to me, to put our trailer back into the "new" condition it was said to be sold to us as. They also paid $149.00 towards the replacement cost of the "non stock Skyworth TV / DVD" that Barber RV had put in our trailer when we bought it, as the "stock TV" had been stolen out of the trailer when it was burglarized / vandalized. Well, the Skyworth TV / DVD broke after only 6 uses, but 1 month past the Skyworth 90 day warranty was up. Yet again Keystone would have insured their stock TV 1 year, so they graciously gave us the cost of a stock TV replacement which we put towards a Naxa NTD 2252 22' LCD TV / DVD 12vdc. (I Purchased a "Square trade extended warranty" on it for 4 years for $40.00).

We bought the extended warranty at the time of trailer purchase for an extra $1000 from "U.S. Warranty, (eagle Plus plan). According to its brochure, no, a cracked lino floor would not be covered. But most other major items are covered for an additional 6 years past the stock 1 year warranty.

http://www.uswceagle.com/get_doc.php?doc=RV%20Towable%20Brochure.pdf


Seeing we have used our trailer on 10 trips, for almost 2.5 months worth of camping duration, in the last 10 months we have owned it, that warranty gives us an extra level of "peace of mind" on potential future repairs.

So, in my book, Keystone has been FANTASTIC!:thumbsup: If you plan on REALLY using your RV as we do, Get the extended warranty. Lets face it, we COULD have bought 2 keystone trailers for the price of one, top of the line Airstream trailer that is SAID to be real "quality built". Yet, there UGLY inside, and out, and not nearly as nice as our Keystones at near half the price!

http://www.airstreamrvsource.com/rvinventory_item.asp?id=724725

Beachnut

[gmohr]

Just think, if they built these as sturdy as a house we would not be able to
tow them. A good PDI often can find problems before they happen. We bought ours
from RV Outlet in Danville, VA and then proceeded to do a 3.5hr predelivery
inspection. Found a few things that they immediately fixed. One was a cargo
door that didn't fit correctly. We have put many a day and quite a few miles
in our Cougar and it is almost like new. I think Keystone does a bang up job.

Enjoy your summer camping!

[dandlbro]

We feel your pain.....We also had a 2008 Montana 3665....We bought it brand new and paid a pretty penny for it.....We have 2 pages of repairs on the stupid lemon and things they wouldn't replace as it wasn't meant to live in full time....But, believe me when we told them we would live in it full time they were so eager to sell it to us......We have gotten rid of it and now have a nice used Cardinal by Forest River and will never own another Keystone......Good Luck.....

[therink]

We feel your pain.....We also had a 2008 Montana 3665....We bought it brand new and paid a pretty penny for it.....We have 2 pages of repairs on the stupid lemon and things they wouldn't replace as it wasn't meant to live in full time....But, believe me when we told them we would live in it full time they were so eager to sell it to us......We have gotten rid of it and now have a nice used Cardinal by Forest River and will never own another Keystone......Good Luck.....

Sorry to hear about your experience with the Montana. It sounds to me that the issue was with your dealer than with Keystone. Its the dealer that misrepresented the warranty terms. I am also betting your dealer did not take the time to prep your unit properly when it came in from the factory. All Keystone dealers are provided a hefty allowance from Keystone for initial prep and to make any needed adjustments, etc. A Camping World technician I spoke with told me they receive upwards to $2,000 for the larger fivers.
It sounds like the dealer may have kept this allowance and waited for you to find the problems.
Icould be off here but many more Keystone owners are satisfied than not. All brands have their issues. I've owned enough rvs from various brands to know this and that a good rv experience starts with a good dealer. A very precious commodity to say the least.
Steve

[badge4]

We feel your pain.....We also had a 2008 Montana 3665....We bought it brand new and paid a pretty penny for it.....We have 2 pages of repairs on the stupid lemon and things they wouldn't replace as it wasn't meant to live in full time....But, believe me when we told them we would live in it full time they were so eager to sell it to us......We have gotten rid of it and now have a nice used Cardinal by Forest River and will never own another Keystone......Good Luck.....

If you are so satisfied with your Forest River thats wonderful news perhaps you should go share your positive experiences on their forum. Those of us who come on here do so with the thought of either sharing our positive feelings about Keystone or sharing "constructive" thoughts or ideas regarding some negative dealings towards our Keystone products. I would hate to see this become some sort of rant and rave site simply because you can't get past some unforunate dealings you have had with a dealer.

[rwleejr]

I have a Outback 295RE that I purchased in Nov 2010. I have been living in it full time since than and have had almost no issues with the unit. I can't say enough about how happy I am with my Outback.

[bobchick]

I have decided to use my travel trailer as an example to other potential buyers of RV's that they should look at other products out there before they consider buying Keystone. 2008 model with decals falling off and split flooring throws a lot of people off especially when the tow vehicle a silverado sits there in mint shape. Funny the paint has not peeled off the truck and the dash is not cracked or seats ripped, same year as RV. Great advertising for Keystone, love it!!!!!!

Keystone is great for putting off for a year what they could do in a day!I only wish I had seen this siote before I had bought keystone! Only time keystone lie is when they open there mouth??

[brent]

i'll say the outside is well constructed. i am having problems with screws holding blinds coming out. the only fix is putting a red devil in the wall to keep the screws in. i have only had the camper 7 months. told the dealer about issue and he saib he would let keystone know. i guess that's the answer. just wish they would have used a better wall board as i did a special order to accomdate changes.

[LouSlugger]

I generally agree -- based on my short time as a Keystone owner -- that the company's customer service attitude seems poor. I bought a 2007 Fuzion that was a repo so I had no unrealistic expectations about anything still being under warranty or that the rig would still be in showroom condition. But so far I've learned that (1) the exterior decals have only a one year warranty but are prone to rapid deterioration and peeling (I've spent MANY hours removing them with 3M Stripe Off wheels and lacquer remover); (2) said decals are very expensive to replace and available only from Keystone (and the replacements could very well be the same poor quality as the originals) [this is especially puzzling to me considering that peeling/missing decals give an outward appearance of inferior quality, which you would think Keystone would want to avoid in order to protect its brand value]; (3) Keystone is very slow in responding to inquiries from its authorized dealers about replacement parts, and in at least one instance (mine) mistakenly told a dealer that it is not an authorized dealer when in fact it is and has been for many years (and had submitted several warranty claims to Keystone earlier that very same week); (4) Customer Service hours are limited to 8-5 M-Thursday and 8-3 on Friday (must be nice to work there); and (5) they are very slow to have technical consultants make promised return phone calls to answer a question (I've been waiting since Monday morning to see if they can identify any reason why I should not upgrade from 15 inch wheels/tires to 16 inch; the first two times I called and asked the most I could get was "Keystone does not recommend that you use anything different from original size" -- which is the answer to a question I did not ask). Granted, it would not be fair for me to judge Keystone based upon these initial impressions over a relatively short period of time, but the relationship is definitely not getting off on the right foot and it does cause me some concern going forward.