16 Keystone Carbon 35 garage floor falling through

[Gresh1"03]

Hello everyone,
So I have a big problem and would like to see if anyone has heard or experienced it. I just unloaded the back of the toyhauler and found the right side floor right by the dove tail really soft and flexing. All I carry is an
old golf cart. Where the wheel was parked is indented in and about a foot behind that is really soft feeling. I have only had the trailer for 18 months and bought it brand new. I have attached photos for reference and would like input on what I should do in this situation. Any input is greatly appreciated and let me know if you need more info. I have a video that shows it moving as I gently step on it but it won't upload.
Thanks,
Robert

[ctbruce]

It sounds like you have a leak somewhere that is letting water in. Maybe a tail light or clearance light? Regardless, the floor is going to need some patching/replacing. But finding the water intrusion will be priority one.

Welcome to the forum from Kansas City, MO! Glad you're here! I wish it was under better circumstances.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[jimthemosaicguy]

You might also check the metal vents that allow vapor to escape. I left the lower one open and after a rain found a puddle of water in the middle of the floor. Also, if you have w/d connections. On my Fuzion 416 the kitchen plumbing and w/d connects to the gray water tank that I think is under the garage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gresh1"03]

Thanks for the replies, I am pretty sure it it not the vent area. It is basically right under the window back there so I am wondering if it could be leaking internally and going under the rubber mat. There has never been any water on the top of the rubber.

[Ken / Claudia]

Leaks are nearly always tough to find. That window would be suspect. But, someone needs to start removing panels windows, lights etc. and find it. Remember water always runs down. When you find a problem area such as the floor panel look up. Look up walls, each wall not just the closest one. The leak is normally running in the walls not on them. Unless water has been forced inside during travel. No point in repairing the floor without fixing the source if in deed it is a leak.

[Gresh1"03]

I understand sir, thanks for the input. This is insane on something only 1 1/2 old. And of course I am sure I will receive no help from The manufacturer. It is hard to stomach the amount of money spent and it is having an issue like this that is gonna cost me a bunch!

[Goose]

Have you been underneath the rig to look at that area? May be something under there that needs to be corrected. I'm assuming aluminum studs? Maybe the thin underlayment board is not secured properly under the chloroplast? That's the only thing that came to my mind. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gresh1"03]

I have been under there and it is all sealed up with nothing that looks out of the ordinary that I can tell. I am probably just gonna have to pull the rubber mat up and see what it looks like under.

[Bigiron]

Just posted in toy hauler section. I too just found some soft spots about palm sized right where my 2016 Impact 311 garage floor meets the rear frame on the right and left side. We do have two windows in the rear but I see no signs of water leaking from them and never see water during heavy rains. I am guessing it must be running down the door frame and wicking under the door threshold and the wood is drawing it in. I plan to give it the hose test to verify. Either way I plan to seal the door threshold on both sides.
The product I plan to use is Fasco 99 Stop Rot epoxy. The Fasco product is a great product and I have used it for years in many applications. I Plan to drill small holes into the end of and inject the epoxy. I am trying to avoid replacing the wood at this time and having to replace the coin flooring which is expensive and not readily available in small lengths. I will place a few jacks underneath the soft areas to put some upward pressure that will remove the slight sag as the epoxy dries. If I am not satisfied with the results, I will replace the entire piece of wood.
I'll post up my results.

[Gresh1"03]

Bigiron,
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear you have what sounds to be the same issue. Please let me know how it turns out and what you find. I am curious if it could be that the floor was installed in the space between 2 frame supports and the weight in that area caused it to crack which is causing the flex. Either way I am planning to take up the diamond plate strip at the rear by the dove tail and cut into the rubber mat to try and see what the wood looks like. If I had to bet it isn't glued down like they say it should be and I should be able to pull it up with some heat. I will keep you informed on what I find when I get back from my trip and dig into it.

[Dave W]

Bigiron,
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear you have what sounds to be the same issue. Please let me know how it turns out and what you find. I am curious if it could be that the floor was installed in the space between 2 frame supports and the weight in that area caused it to crack which is causing the flex. Either way I am planning to take up the diamond plate strip at the rear by the dove tail and cut into the rubber mat to try and see what the wood looks like. If I had to bet it isn't glued down like they say it should be and I should be able to pull it up with some heat. I will keep you informed on what I find when I get back from my trip and dig into it.

What you just mentioned is something that I would be thinking. You may also find that Keystone, like about everyone else building RVs has used OSB instead of plywood. Years back I had a Kountry Aire 5er and even in the '70s, found that Newmar had used that 'crap' on a then high end RV. I ended up pulling everything I could move or unscrew out and layering on a good quality weatherproof plywood. No more dips and spongy floor between cross members. That was better 'fun' then fixing the rot from a water tank leak that happened later.

[Bigiron]

Bigiron,
Thanks for the reply and sorry to hear you have what sounds to be the same issue. Please let me know how it turns out and what you find. I am curious if it could be that the floor was installed in the space between 2 frame supports and the weight in that area caused it to crack which is causing the flex. Either way I am planning to take up the diamond plate strip at the rear by the dove tail and cut into the rubber mat to try and see what the wood looks like. If I had to bet it isn't glued down like they say it should be and I should be able to pull it up with some heat. I will keep you informed on what I find when I get back from my trip and dig into it.
The under belly of the toy hauler portion is not covered by Coroplast, but rather the wood is covered by the vapor barrier material, can't remember the formal name. Anyway, you can see all the supports from underneath. If at all possible try not to cut the flooring material. That diamond plate transition will most likely be glued/sealed so it takes slight prying to get it up. Also keep in mind you can get to it from the bottom. You might have to cut the vapor material, but it can be resealed with gorilla tape. I am starting at the top so the epoxy will run into the wood, but I might look underneath and see if I can inject some from the bottom as well. I can feel the soft spot underneath so I will drill a series of slam holes in the rotted area and also pas the area a few inches as well to find good wood. Good to see, well not so good, but good to see I am not the only person shocked that a 2016 trailer has rotten wood. let's compare notes to see what works. I am hoping to get into mine this coming week sometime.

[Gresh1"03]

The under belly of the toy hauler portion is not covered by Coroplast, but rather the wood is covered by the vapor barrier material, can't remember the formal name. Anyway, you can see all the supports from underneath. If at all possible try not to cut the flooring material. That diamond plate transition will most likely be glued/sealed so it takes slight prying to get it up. Also keep in mind you can get to it from the bottom. You might have to cut the vapor material, but it can be resealed with gorilla tape. I am starting at the top so the epoxy will run into the wood, but I might look underneath and see if I can inject some from the bottom as well. I can feel the soft spot underneath so I will drill a series of slam holes in the rotted area and also pas the area a few inches as well to find good wood. Good to see, well not so good, but good to see I am not the only person shocked that a 2016 trailer has rotten wood. let's compare notes to see what works. I am hoping to get into mine this coming week sometime.

Thanks Dave W....I can only hope this is the issue and not a water problem but who knows. I was hoping maybe people from Keystone monitor this site and could provide some sort of opinion or offer a way to get it checked out but by the answers I have been getting from other places, the provide no support after the 1year mark and consider the item your problem. Wishful thinking I guess!!!:facepalm:

[JRTJH]

Thanks Dave W....I can only hope this is the issue and not a water problem but who knows. I was hoping maybe people from Keystone monitor this site and could provide some sort of opinion or offer a way to get it checked out but by the answers I have been getting from other places, the provide no support after the 1year mark and consider the item your problem. Wishful thinking I guess!!!:facepalm:

To the best of my knowledge, NOBODY from Keystone monitors this forum, NOBODY from Keystone is a member of this forum and NOBODY from Keystone has any involvement of any kind with this forum. When the new owners of this forum took over about a year ago, we addressed the possibility of asking Keystone to "join the forum" but so far, since that conversation among the moderators, it's been "crickets" on that topic. So, nope, It's very unlikely that Keystone will be giving you any suggestions here.

[ctbruce]

No one from Keystone is on this site that we are aware of. The site is not owned by Keystone and if they are on here it would be their own decision to do so. Check the disclaimer at the bottom of every page. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but also didn't want you to get your hopes up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[Gresh1"03]

No one from Keystone is on this site that we are aware of. The site is not owned by Keystone and if they are on here it would be their own decision to do so. Check the disclaimer at the bottom of every page. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but also didn't want you to get your hopes up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Cool thanks for the info!

[Gresh1"03]

It has been a while since I first posted about this, the issue has continued to get worse and we have found other areas that are soft under the other window and kitchen. I have tried to contact Keystone multiple times and have finally received a reply back. They approved to pay to have a local facility take a look at it and diagnose the issue even though it is out of warranty. I can honestly say that the individuals I have been dealing with have been very helpful, polite, and seem to be willing to help. So far this has been a positive experience.

Today I brought it to the service center and after looking around for a few hours, peeling back the rubber floor mat, cutting the bottom barrier, and removing the window, we have figured out the water leak is coming from the rear windows. Although the inside and outside walls didn't have a sign of water damage, there is clear sign of water intrusion through the window upper forward seal and down the forward cutout into the floor. Unfortunately, the floor is about 50% rotted at this point and not sure what can be done. We have figured out the smell we have been smelling has been the mold, this makes me extremely upset due to my 3 young daughters sleeping right on top of it. This information will be relayed to Keystone to see what the outcome will be. I am hoping we can come to an agreement and this is a positive experience. Sorry for the length but figured it maybe helpful for others.

[wiredgeorge]

You are doing fine to provide detailed feedback... thanks for posting all the details and let us know where things go!

[zoro58]

cheap OSB gave way on first trip with bike and straps loosened causing bike to fall damaging new bike and fiver.

[rhandyr99]

Our Fuzion had 2 of these repairs... What a mess & Job it is to replace these floors. They are made of cheap particle board that rots when it gets wet! We replaced the bottom part last summer and when we got back home this summer we discovered another soft spot and had to replace 1/4 of the floor above the bottom section up to the door...(just finished yesterday) Our leak was from not being sealed from the factory above the door, the lights - we sprayed it with a water hose and it ran in like crazy... we sealed all the framing and around everything that should have been sealed at the factory.... I can post pictures if any one wants to see them...

[notanlines]

Gresh, I can't begin to tell you how many times members write in their complaint, only to never return and give us the last chapter. Many thanks for the update.

[zoro58]

Mine was not rot, just OSB failure on brand new trailer. Keystone cheap fix was splice piece in rather replace whole floor. $3000 damage to new bike also not to mention damage to walls.Took nine months to get fixed. Had to get 3/4 inch plywood to cover indentation to haul bike back and placed back down when got trailer back. 2 lessons learned *** no more Camping World and no more Keystone purchases.

[TheRealMacGyver]

Just found this in a search because I have a serious soft spot on my 238ML. It is not a water issue and as soon as I cut the linoleum up I will start a post. But it feels like the flooring is off the joist. I can feel the seam and it is directly over my gray tank so no way of inspecting from bottom. I think my son jumping off top bunk caused it, but still unacceptable to me. I am afraid to even step in that spot! Will post new thread when I know more. Pretty much garbage construction as far as I am concerned.

[Gresh1"03]

Thanks for the replies. I am still waiting on the service department to get the info back to Keystone to figure out whats gonna happen. I will continue to update as i get info. Still hoping for the best!!!

[dcg9381]

If they end up pulling it up, insist (pay the difference) to use 3/4" marine grade plywood.
This is one of the areas where I'd certainly pay a few "hundred" for "HD Floor" option.

The floor on my 2015 Carbon has held up well so far... Sorry to hear about yours.

[Gresh1"03]

Here's a little peek at the floor from the bottom and top. The pics and info have been sent, we will see what happens.

[Gresh1"03]

UPDATE: I contacted Keystone today and they asked me to authorize them to pick the trailer up and take it to the factory to be looked at for repair. I obviously approved and told them I had some questions first. (time, fix, and options) The lady said someone would contact me in the next few days to answer the questions. I will continue to provide info as i get it. Thanks for everyone that is responding.

[dcg9381]

I've done a "return to factory" repair. In my case, they assigned a "manager" to the warranty issue - she coordinated with myself and my dealer on getting the RV returned.
You may *not* want to choose to return the RV currently - it's up to you, but it's now cold and Indiana roads may have salt present. Bascially, they'll setup a return window. You'll empty out all the RV contents (yea, completely empty) - return it to the dealer, and a commercial transporter will pick it up.

Recommend that you take photos of the RV (all the way around) prior to transport.

Keystone will give you a "ballpark" repair window. Mine was 30-60 days out. They transport it back to the dealer.

Note (transporter fault, probably not Keystone/Dealer): My RV was towed on tollways back to Indiana. I paid those bills rather than deal with Keystone for hours trying to get reimbursed. On the return trip - both batteries and my license plate were missing. Make sure you take photos of the RV.

Keystone probably won't repair with plywood, but it's worth asking.. I'd certainly want that "upgrade".

[Gresh1"03]

Wow, that sounds like a horror story! Not sure what my options will be but i am sure i have no other choice. We will see what happens. I appreciate your reply. Wonder if this is the same outcome for everyone in this situation.

[Gresh1"03]

Just a little update, Keystone approved the return and repair on the trailer. It was picked up in Feb and taken to Indiana for repair. Since then the service advisor at keystone has been in contact with me letting me know what was going on. This week I notified that the trailer is reassembled and going through PDI and leak testing where they will look at the windows and determine why it was leaking. I am hoping they will give me the right answers as to why and where the water was coming in so it dont happen again. I will continue to post when I receive more info. So far I am happy with the process and willingness of Keystone. Hopefully the worksmanship is good when it returns.

[Gresh1"03]

The service department contacted me the other day and informed me the unit is assembled and going through the final steps. He then told me that there was no indication in the wall or windows of water damage which I know to be incorrect. I contacted him over the phone and he said there was a little sign of water in the window area and apologized for his email being incorrect. Basically the conversation came to it was ok and nothing could be done to change it. The pictures he sent showed water damage in the wood between the frame and outer wall. I recently spoke to a manager and informed him it was unacceptable to not address the issue that caused the water damage and fix it. He said they will reevaluate the work and get back to me.

I guess we will see what happens next!

[CaptnJohn]

I'm retired so if 1 of mine was going back I would deliver it even eating the cost of fuel of 4 trips. I've seen too many transporters.

[shepperd8155]

The service department contacted me the other day and informed me the unit is assembled and going through the final steps. He then told me that there was no indication in the wall or windows of water damage which I know to be incorrect. I contacted him over the phone and he said there was a little sign of water in the window area and apologized for his email being incorrect. Basically the conversation came to it was ok and nothing could be done to change it. The pictures he sent showed water damage in the wood between the frame and outer wall. I recently spoke to a manager and informed him it was unacceptable to not address the issue that caused the water damage and fix it. He said they will reevaluate the work and get back to me.

I guess we will see what happens next!


I have the same issue on a "new to me" 2013 Fuzion M300. My Harley dresser almost went through the floor on the right side. What little investigation I have done so far appears to be coming from the lower part of the window, possibly the weep holes in the through at the bottom. (Laminate has now turned loose at that point) I am eager to find out what Keystone says about your window leak. My side wall appears to be rotted from the bottom of the window down. I never saw water in the garage until my Harley pushed the floor down about 3 inches, now it stands even after a brief rain. Luckily I can keep it in the dry until I repair it.
Thanks Gresh1 for the updates...