Thank you Keystone

[Rusty]

Sorry the title of this thread is a bit misleading.

My Cougar High Country 5th wheel sits in our backyard, with the sun beating primarily on the Rear, Left, and finally the front cap. I noticed some sun fading on the front cap, contacted Keystone, got the obligatory washing of the hands, called and dragged the trailer to the Stealer, they gave me that Deer in the Headlight stair that we have all seen.

Nobody would offer any help, or any advice on what we could do, I brought up the protection package, and much like a politician all I got was the old duck and weave tactic.

Since taking the trailer to the Stealer my son and I spent a few hours last fall with 2 buffers and a bottle of wax, looked good, then come last month the fading came back enforce on the cap.

Too say I am PO'd is an understatement! I have contacted Calgary Coachworks about what to do, their suggestion was a painting of the front and rear cap, $1500 a pop, so that's a $3000 hit, and we haven't even thought about what to do with the whole freaking left side, which you can clearly see the ghosting on the side of the interior framework of the trailer!

What really PO's me is that I have doled out close to $50 grand for this thing and the Stealer and "Manufacturer" refuse to do anything, citing I should have waxed it once or twice a year since new!!!!!

I point blank asked the Stealer when doing the PDI about the exterior package and reapplying it, as our last 5th wheel had to be brought back to the dealer for the reapplication of the protection. They said and I quote: You don't need to do that as the finish will last for years"

Little did I know his quip of years meant just 2-3 years!

In our travels on the highways of Canada I am noticing more and more RV's with the same problem, it floors me that these "manufacturers" build these multi thousand dollar units with super sub par materials and they have no accountability!

I will post pictures later showing the sun damage...........

[Rusty]

Here is a shot of the left or street side, odd how you can actually see the interior framework ghosted on the outer exterior wall!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/1a6d3e9ff212879a5657134e551f6200.jpg

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[Rusty]

A shot of the rear cap, once again there is the ghosting of the framework! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/1e2fb607249d0243cc3855561270055b.jpg

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[Rusty]

Very hard to get a shot representative of the front cap fading.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/a365032f551a74a51fb78b99ab623506.jpg

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[Rusty]

Funny enough shortly after taking delivery of the trailer I contacted Keystone about some of the Cougar sticker possibly peeling, they sent me a new sticker and it sits in the garage, looks like I may have to use it!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/90d4e863b7514154b4bba2cff6dc7678.jpg

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[theallde]

WOW - I never seen anything like that, should be interesting what others have to say.

[Johnny's Journey]

There's always 2 sides to every story I've been told. How old is your unit and how often has it been detailed before things became an issue ? The outdoors is a harsh place to be and things that settle like dust, smog, dropping to name a few have a way of becoming caustic.

[Frank G]

I have seen this ghosting issue on many units from different manufactures. (Including my unit) It is normally only temporary, in the early morning under the right "Dew" conditions. It goes away with a little sun.

Is your ghosting permanent? If so, will some cleaning or rubbing compound remove it? I am trying to see if it is a mold or fungus growing in the pores of the siding.

I am intrigued by how the aluminum frame effects the skin of these units, what is the science behind it. We see the results, not the why.

You notice there is no horizontal bracing around cut-outs (window and vent openings) this is typical cougar construction as witnessed in there build facilities. The side walls are glued together, the rear is not, yet the frame shows through. Interesting.

This post has not offered a lot of support, it appears there is little or no support from dealers or manufactures with fading issues. I fear for my unit in a couple of years.

My brother in law has a 14 year old Jayco that sees the light of day about 6 days a year and gets an annual wax job. It could pass for new!

[Rusty]

There's always 2 sides to every story I've been told. How old is your unit and how often has it been detailed before things became an issue ? The outdoors is a harsh place to be and things that settle like dust, smog, dropping to name a few have a way of becoming caustic.

If you look at my signature block you will see that my unit is a 2013, yes I get that the outdoors can be a harsh environment, living in Calgary Alberta we don't have as much issue with smog as other areas. I wash it on an average of 2-3 times a year. I have a neighbor who has a 10 year old Dodge 1/2 ton with a fiberglass toneau cover, the truck has literally sat there for almost 10 years, he drives it maybe 1000 miles a year, yes 1000 miles!! The toneau cover looks as good as new!!!

It has become very obvious that these manufacturers use sub par materials and finishes! I honestly feel that I should not have to wax my unit once or twice a year, my truck a 2014 Dodge has never been waxed once in the 2 1/2 years I have owned it, why? Because the manufacturer uses quality materials and finishes, or at least a hell of a lot better materials and finishes, and the price of the truck is just a bit more then the trailer!

My point is that we give these dealers and in the end the manufacturer an ungodly amount of money for these things and this is the crap we get, I should be able to park my unit in my backyard and not have to worry the finish deteriorating in less then a year! It was waxed and buffed last Sept! Let that sink in, Sept which is 10 months!!!!

Sad!

[Rusty]

I have seen this ghosting issue on many units from different manufactures. (Including my unit) It is normally only temporary, in the early morning under the right "Dew" conditions. It goes away with a little sun.

Is your ghosting permanent? If so, will some cleaning or rubbing compound remove it? I am trying to see if it is a mold or fungus growing in the pores of the siding.

I am intrigued by how the aluminum frame effects the skin of these units, what is the science behind it. We see the results, not the why.

You notice there is no horizontal bracing around cut-outs (window and vent openings) this is typical cougar construction as witnessed in there build facilities. The side walls are glued together, the rear is not, yet the frame shows through. Interesting.

This post has not offered a lot of support, it appears there is little or no support from dealers or manufactures with fading issues. I fear for my unit in a couple of years.

My brother in law has a 14 year old Jayco that sees the light of day about 6 days a year and gets an annual wax job. It could pass for new!

The pictures were taken in the afternoon when I got home from work, so definitely no dew involved LOL

I guess that is the whole concept behind the "Helium" technology behind these so-called lite units! Less framing means less weight.

If I could I would park it inside a building, but I don't have that option so it has to sit outside in our backyard, which is a hell of a lot better then sitting in a compound 20 miles away from our place, having to deal with theft issues, rodent issues to name a few possible problems.

[gregrc75]

I can understand your disappointment. I have a 2011 Keystone Premier travel trailer that I will have had for 6 years this month. It has the full body paint exterior. I wash it frequently and I wax it a minimum of 3 times a year. I just discovered this week that some of the clearcoat on the front cap, high up top, is starting to peel. I have to remember it is 6 years old and parked outside, but I do maintain the finish. For now, I did a temporary fix by buffing the area, sanding and recoating with 4 coats of clearcoat. Hopefully that will at least halt the degradation.

[JRTJH]

Just "thinking out loud" here, but I wonder if the shadowing is a result of pollution/contamination in the air coupled with the "ghosting caused by dew" that causes moisture to collect on the areas where the aluminum framework underlies the FILON skin? If the temperature and dewpoint are right, water will collect on the skin every morning. If the water has some type of contaminates in it that would stain the FILON and if the sun bakes those contaminates into the FILON, then it's entirely possible that over a period of years of that happening, there's going to be "gray areas" on the FILON that can't be removed. Just as "rusty tap water" will eventually leave a rust spot under the faucet in the bath tub, the above may be a reason for the "ghosting" you see on your trailer.

That doesn't help you with fixing the problem, but might offer at least an explanation on why it happened. I don't know whether it's a unique situation caused by where you live and what's in the atmosphere there, but I do know that the rainwater in south Louisiana will guarantee rust formation on anything over a period of a year or two. Just the contaminates from fireplaces, the salt from the Gulf and the pollution from "people living" is enough to cause the rainwater to create "acid rain" which will rust away anything it sits on.

Might be your problem is something similar. How to fix it? No idea, but it might not be "Keystone's fault" that it happened......

[Rusty]

JRTJH, seeing as we live on the Canadian Prairies we don't have as far as I know those issues, we live backing onto the wide open Prairies. The problem I believe has to do with the finish of the fiberglass, and/or the gelcoat. We do have the most "sun time" here in Canada, meaning we have more sunny days then everywhere else in Canada.

One of my main issues is with the protection package that we purchased, when I bought up the protection issue at the PDI it was told to me don't worry the finish will last for years, then when an issue came up it was told to me that because I didn't bring it in for the protection I screwed up, even tho the dealer told me NOT to worry about it.
Stealer says one thing and Keystone says another, so I am screwed, I have to pay another $3000 - 5000 may be more to have a more semi permanent fix.

If Keystone had of had the proper finish on these trailers we wouldn't have to be out of pocket of such an amount!

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[JRTJH]

While I do hope you find a reasonable solution to your problem, you allude to purchasing a "protection package" (apparently from your dealer) and that he and you had a discussion on the length of protection it would provide. You must realize that Keystone DOES NOT sell an aftermarket protection package and they have absolutely nothing to do with your contracted arrangement between you and the dealership.

It's interesting to note that you discount any personal responsibility for this problem ("we live on the Canadian Prairies we don't have as far as I know those issues") and you refer to your dealer as the "stealership" and "the stealer". With that type of relationship, it's really no wonder that they aren't "fully in your corner"... The problem, from what you've described, is not a Keystone issue, rather it's a problem between you and the dealer who sold you an aftermarket appearance "insurance policy". If you and that entity have a disagreement about what that "insurance policy" protects, you might want to actually read the small print.

Again, that's not a Keystone "inferior materials quality" problem or we'd have thousands of Keystone owners complaining at the 5 or 6 year of ownership with the same thing. We don't see that on this forum and I don't see that on the other RV forums that I frequent. It really seems to be an isolated situation, caused by something other than Keystone's selection of FILON suppliers.

I might add, as an observation, in the photos you posted, there is a significant amount of dirt on the refrigerator vents, the ladder rungs, the spare tire cover and the rear bumper. If that dirt sits on those surfaces, gets wet and "sun-baked" into the finish, it's not surprising that the surface would not remain "like new" for an extended period of time.

I personally don't see this as a "Keystone quality problem" but rather as an issue on a 6 year old trailer that wasn't protected from the elements with a misrepresentation or misunderstanding of what some "aftermarket appearance protection policy" would do to enhance the longevity of the trailer's surface.

ADDED: I agree, Keystone "could" use better quality components in their trailer, but that would increase the cost significantly and likely price the RV's they produce out of the competitive market. That would do nothing to enhance "quality" nor would it make the trailers made by Keystone's competition any better. Building RV's is a very "thin line" between adding and mixing products that are reliable and still affordable. If Keystone bought "million dollar FILON" to put on the current Cougar trailers, what would that do to enhance longevity of the axles, appliances, roof? Would it be cost effective for them to build a trailer with FILON that lasted for 20 years on a trailer that has a refrigerator that only lasts 5 years on the average? Would any of us pay an extra 3 or 4 thousand dollars for that "better FILON" ? Every RV manufacturer dances to the "economic music" of what consumers will pay before they buy the competition. As a note, there is one FILON manufacturer in the Goshen area. All of the trailer manufacturers buy and install the same FILON on their trailers. You won't find any other brand that has "better FILON". There are some differences in front/rear cap finishes, but FILON only comes in one type. They all use the same stuff.

Just my views, I'm sure the flames will start ramping up any time now.

[Rusty]

I do take a certain amount of blame, sorry if I misrepresented myself. I asked point blank about bringing it in for the reapplication of the protection package, and I trusted what the dealer stated to me, and I trusted that a manufacturer could build a unit that could last more then 3 years. I said I wash it 2-3 times a year, and I did what was supposed to be done with waxing it in Sept last fall, now 10 months later it is just as bad if not worse.

Your points are well taken.

So I guess I am to blame 100 % because I trusted others, that's my fault.

[Rusty]

BTW the trailer is a 2013, we have had it only 4 years, not 6 as you stated, big difference. And I noticed the fading last summer, fully 3 years after purchase.

[sourdough]

The situation the OP has is unfortunate, but not uncommon. From my vantage point it appears that the OP, and the dealer, are primarily at fault here. I would say Keystone but the issues with their (and every other trailer manufacturer) gelcoat exteriors is well known and has been discussed no end. In the end, the exterior from the factory is what it is and we all are aware and have to take whatever measures are required to keep the exterior from fading. I keep mine in an enclosed storage facility. I've also had the front cap repainted and clearcoated. Some have other kinds of covers and some use the cloth covers - ALL to prevent the known fading issues associated with RV exteriors. If you don't take some kind of action you WILL experience fading in a few years.

Whatever the exterior protection package was it is the owner's responsibility to read it and abide by it. The dealer has no obligation other than to respond to your requests to follow the guidelines of the coverage. Can/does a dealer give you bad info or advice? That answer is yes and well known. Once they sell you the product (exterior coverage) and take your money their obligation is over - it's then all on the owner and his willingness to study the coverage and abide by its rules and know its limitations. That's one of the reasons so many shun any kind of extended coverage, finish warranties etc. My new SUV came with an exterior finish package to the tune of $499 (which I could not get removed). The tube of "stuff" appears to be just some sort of wax (they call it a lusterizer). For the coverage to be effective I have to wax the vehicle 2-3 times per year with the "lusterizer". The tube is enough for one application. I'm sure you can see the squeeze here. I can wax the vehicle once a year and the finish will be good for as long as I own it....probably wouldn't have to do it at all since it lives in a garage. It's just a back door way to make more money (buying their special lusterizer) every few months. Same as your exterior protection package.

Again, it's unfortunate and I feel for you, but I think Keystone is probably at the bottom of the list of the responsible parties - although I would truly love for them to put a finish on their trailers equivalent to an automotive finish. At the end of the day an RV is a toy; it depreciates daily and seemingly costs money every time you look at it. We just have to recognize it for what it is and be happy:)

[Rusty]

I do take a certain amount of blame here.

I just want to reiterate that that they should make a product that lasts more then 3 years.

As we used to say in the Army......carry on.

[JRTJH]

No, I don't think anyone would say that you're to blame 100%. But I do believe that anyone who is reasonable would realize that your trailer is built using the same FILON as all the rest and that it's not Keystone's failure to produce your specific trailer to standards that are the same as the one before it and the one after it on the assembly line. The FILON is the "industry standard" and is exactly the same as hundreds of thousands of trailers currently on the market. It's not "inferior product" if there are only 9 or 10 that have the problem out of all that are on the road.

I really believe that it's a situation of assuming some "magic potion" applied by the dealer (at an extra cost) would protect your trailer, a failure to understand the "insurance policy" that you bought (appearance package) and a bit of bad luck (where you park and how the sun bakes your trailer and what lays on the surface).

ADDED: It's more the expectation you have that what you paid extra for at purchase, what the seller promised you that extra purchase would do for you and what you received, based on the current problem is not what you were led to expect. It's a failure of that appearance package, not a failure of the FILON that Keystone installed.

Honestly, none of that is a "Keystone quality" problem. In fact, if it were, we'd have significantly more people complaining of FILON ghosting on this forum and on many other trailer forums. It's unfortunate that anyone has to have this happen, but Keystone, in Goshen, is far removed from the problems you face. It's not Keystone that created the "perfect storm" that caused your problem. If it was, somehow, Keystone that did it, we'd have a forum full of FILON complaints. Look around, you're the first one that I can recall in at least the last 5 years to complain of "ghosting" above the Aluminum framework.

This is not intended to minimize your problem and hopefully you'll find a reasonable solution, but you honestly can't say that we should all pay an extra $1000 (or more) so Keystone can "buy better FILON" (which doesn't exist) so the very few who have problems can, somehow not have that problem and we can all "feel Keystone solved a quality problem (that isn't frequent enough to have heard about in the past 5 years).......

[JRTJH]

I just did a quick Amazon product search and came up with a product made my Meguiar's that might help:

https://www.amazon.com/Meguiars-M4916-Marine-Oxidation-Remover/dp/B0000AY4YX/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_lp_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=C0MT7F8NNRE1V5JZX0G7&th=1

There's a review done by an Outback (made by Keystone) owner that shows some impressive results. No guarantees, I don't work for Meguair's, Amazon and I haven't used the product, but it might help ????

[Rusty]

My main issue is with the front cap, it has been washed and waxed and still has faded. If the manufacturer were to use automotive grade finishes there would be no problem. As I said I am seeing a lot more units with the same issue, if say the manufacturer was to use automotive grade finishes and a good clear coat we would not have to wax twice a year, which on a 35 foot fifth wheel can be a real big job as you can appreciate.

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[Rusty]

I will have a look when I get home I have used some oxidation removal wax I got from the dealers shop.

Also when I referred to the dealer as stealer it was just a case of being frustrated as I have done what has been recommended and still have issues and it appears itnus just as bad. I don't actually call them that, I actually have a very good relationship with my dealer. I seen a few others in a forum many years ago call them that.

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[JRTJH]

Keystone started using molded front caps on their mid-line trailers in about 2010 or 2011. Prior to that Cougars, Sprinters, Laredos were all "flat FILON fronts or white molded fiberglass fronts. In about 2012 (if I remember correctly) Cougar started using fiberglass caps with a molded in color. They used those caps in 2012 and 2013 and in 2014 they started painting all their Cougar caps because of a "fading/oxidation" of the gray color. They didn't have much problem with the white fiberglass caps, had some issues with the gray and brown colors that were "molded" in. In 2014 Keystone "solved the problem" by changing the cap process to a "automotive paint with clear coat finish". So, they did solve the problem, and they have helped some owners with repainting. I'd guess it's about a 50/50 ratio and I can't find any rational reason why some people get help and others don't. I will say that the longer it gets from manufacture date the harder it is to get Keystone to help.

As an example, the automotive industry switched from enamel/lacquer paints around 2000 (maybe even earlier) and for a couple of years there were a large number of cars around with "gray primer" on hoods and roofs where the paint literally "peeled off the surface. GM, Ford and Chrysler helped some owners, not others, and there was a lot of "anger and frustration" from owners.

It's not just the RV industry, not just Keystone that has problems with paint failure. I understand that it gets "personal" when it happens to anyone, but that doesn't mean the entire system is a failure and that the manufacturer is at fault for every paint failure....... In this situation, it sure looks to me like your dealer sold you a "bill of goods" and then walked away when they found the first opportunity to abandon you. I very seriously doubt if your dealership has ever reported your oxidized front cap to Keystone and, if they did, I'd be very curious to see just what documentation they provided to show their support of the "customer's side"...... My guess is that Keystone has never heard from your dealer about your problems. Then again, I could be so very wrong.....

[Rusty]

What say you?

It pisses me off to see this!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/fd1be4ba2812c184ce49989048f0ae11.jpg

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[Rusty]

Yes they have heard from my dealer and they washed their hands, as they cite the time factor, sucks because they won't help much past 2 years, my problem showed up 3 years after! Imagine that?

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[Rusty]

So JRTH looking at your arguments I am right that Keystone during the year my unit was built built a sub standard exterior? And of course they have now switched it up to what I figure the fix should have been?

Do I read right? Or am I wrong?

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[sourdough]

I am not answering for John but I'll give you my assessment;

The initial exteriors had issues with exposure to the sun - all manufacturers had that issue. They had a few years and found that they were getting complaints of fading/deterioration of the gelcoated surfaces. Some got them fixed; some didn't. Sometime in 2014 (if I recall it was for the 2015 model run) they began painting them properly to eliminate the issues they were having with the baked in gelcoat colors (those with the newer ones can shed light if it worked). They changed to something to fix the problem when it became apparent that what they were using had problems.

I bought my trailer on 2/26/14. It was made in Oct. 2013. It had fading issues. Mine was caught by the service manager at my CW and Keystone paid to have it painted using top grade automotive paint with 2 coats of clear coat. No problems since. Others have caught theirs and some have had them painted even after warranty ran out. At 3 years post purchase I don't think Keystone is going to pay to have your trailer painted and I wouldn't expect them to.

I don't think they put a sub standard exterior on your trailer. It was what everyone used - I suppose what they thought was a good surface. They sure did make the trailers look much nicer but I guess that particular choice for long term use wasn't vetted. They did try to make things right for those that brought it to their attention in a timely manner and then moved to a new process to rectify the problem - in a pretty short time frame actually. I hate it, but in your case I'm afraid you're going to be on the hook for the cosmetic repairs. I spend 3-4 months in FL each year and although I keep my RV in an enclosed, insulated storage facility (when not in use) I can see the beginnings of fade on the sides. It makes me unhappy, but, all I know to do is break out the Meguiar's cleaner wax, scrub and polish yet again - and tell myself again and again....it's just a toy, it's just a toy.......

[Rusty]

See that's the way I look at it, pisses me off that I am going to be on the hook, but if I attempt to ignore it it is going to just get to the point that the cap will have to be replaced or it completely disintegrates.

I have contacted Keystone, I don't expect any joy.

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[JRTJH]

First you need to understand a little about how the RV industry "evolves".... I'm certainly no expert, but I've been around RV's for 50+ years and have seen a lot of things "come and go" from black tank combustion units to basement air conditioning and a host of other "we can one up the competition with this". Many of which turned out to be nothing but a dismal failure.

The "component manufacturers" come up with "cheaper/better/innovative/different" kinds of components and "hawk" them to the RV manufacturers at trade shows. The company designers, engineers and management teams go to those shows looking for ways to make their models "better" than the competetion. Sometimes the component manufacturers offer a "only you can use it" to a specific company, other times they offer the innovation to all the manufacturers. In the case of "molded color fiberglass front caps" the component manufacturer offered it to all the RV companies, many of which bought the "new colored caps" believing they were better than the older white production caps. They started installing them, things were "super" across all the brands from Keystone to Hartland to Jayco to Fleetwood to Forest River. Then, after a year or so in the field, they all (every manufacturer who was using the molded color caps) started having problems with the finish oxidizing. Some kept using them, some started painting the caps "in house" others simply went back to what they were doing before colored caps (installing white with decals again). Keystone opted to contract with the cap manufacturer to revise the process and to use automotive paint with a gelcoat finish (like they were doing on the "high line trailers".

It might be interesting to note that Airstream has "always had a burnished aluminum exterior". In about 1974 they opted to start painting the exterior with a clearcoat which was cheaper than the chemical burnished finish they had used for decades. That decision was made by Brunswick (of bowling alley fame) as a cost cutting measure the first year they owned Airstream. About a year after they started having clearcoat peeling that "disfigured" their customer's trailers. If you want to talk about an "uproar", you should read some of the older documents (from before the internet) about that situation. Actually, it caused Brunswick to sell off Airstream, and after a couple of other owners, the brand was bought by THOR, who also owns Keystone.

So, No, keystone didn't "build a substandard exterior" during the model year production run when your trailer was built. Keystone (and many other manufacturers) installed the caps, believing they were an improvement in the appearance of their trailers. It wasn't discovered until after a couple of years that the "molded in color" wasn't holding up, so they stopped using it and started painting their caps with automotive grade paint.

How they determined who did and who didn't get "out of warranty assistance" isn't something they shared with anyone that I'm aware of. Certainly they never asked my "permission" to make any decisions :whistling:

I do know that the problem has essentially "gone away" the further out from when they all stopped using the caps. Yes, the cap "finish" was not as durable as it should have been, but it is not a "safety, reliability or operational defect" it's a cosmetic problem. How Keystone chooses to resolve or not resolve cosmetic problems isn't something they share with the public. You might find some answers from the customer service section, but after this many years, I'd suppose that the only thing you'll get from Keystone (right or wrong) is the courtesy of listening to your "rant" and then telling you they are very sorry.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but it is what it is......

[Johnny's Journey]

My point is that we give these dealers and in the end the manufacturer an ungodly amount of money for these things and this is the crap we get, I should be able to park my unit in my backyard and not have to worry the finish deteriorating in less then a year! It was waxed and buffed last Sept! Let that sink in, Sept which is 10 months!!!!

Sad!I feel your pain. Since I've been on here it's "sad" to read how poorly these unit's are made. My 3 week old Springdale is also one of them. I just spent 2 plus hours after work reworking the door jamb and screen door because of pushed in jamb at striker because that was the easy way of setting it and there where other unit's set the same way. And I'm still not done tuning and straightening. But I'd rather do it because I've seen how return QC work is done and it's not pretty and often ends up worse. I'm just thankful I have what others say is a gift of repairing and adjusting where other's fail.

[Rusty]

John I am fully aware of issues in the RV world!

In a round about way I feel you have validated the original intention of this thread. Whether they intentionally manufactured the trailer the way they did or not, they did use inadequate materials! Thankfully they have rectified in a way I figured it should be.

I have seen the company I work for chose to use Chinese crap because when push comes to shove the all mighty dollar wins out, profit above all else! I get it, doesn't make it right!

Problems with RV??

Our last 5th wheel, which was a Thor BTW....coming into Rapid City the shackles gave out and the suspension collapsed, the wheels came within a hair of touching at 55 mph!

Had to completely rebuild the plumbing from the 3 tanks as the cable operated dump valves seized, stupidist system known to man imho, however trailer manufacturers continue to us a system that inherently siezes up, mostly to do with the way they route and support the cables! I hate this system, hated when I seen my 2013 Cougar had the same damn thing!

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[cvin]

i personally want to be made aware of these kinds of issues and the info supplied here from others about when the manufacturers changed the paint etc

this is useful to me as someone who will be upgrading to a 2-3 year old 5th wheel in a few years

i dont think it is cool any of these expensive trailers are fading and delaminating etc
was not happy to learn this was going to be an issue if i want to keep my trailers more than 3-4 years

[ctbruce]

i personally want to be made aware of these kinds of issues and the info supplied here from others about when the manufacturers changed the paint etc

this is useful to me as someone who will be upgrading to a 2-3 year old 5th wheel in a few years

i dont think it is cool any of these expensive trailers are fading and delaminating etc
was not happy to learn this was going to be an issue if i want to keep my trailers more than 3-4 years
Just to make it more frustrating and confusing, this doesn't happen on every unit.

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[Johnny's Journey]

Rusty I'm sorry about how you feel and where thing's are going in the world today for you. I only asked a fair question. Take care and I hope the best for you.

[Tbos]

Rusty,
What I find odd in your case is that the problem on the front cap appears to be on 1/2 of it. Since it's not consistent it could possibly be considered a manufacturing defect. Has your dealer talked to Keystone? It's worth a try if the dealer is willing to write it up. Good luck.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[Rusty]

Rusty,
What I find odd in your case is that the problem on the front cap appears to be on 1/2 of it. Since it's not consistent it could possibly be considered a manufacturing defect. Has your dealer talked to Keystone? It's worth a try if the dealer is willing to write it up. Good luck.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

Yes the dealer took it to Keystone, and Keystone did the obligatory hand washing, mostly due to the time limitation. I have contacted Keystone again, but I will most likely be given the shove off scenario.

I will be getting the front cap painted and clear coated, and will work with Calgary Coachworks for a fix on the Filon sidewall and rear cap. If I were to get 3 of the 4 sides repainted I am sure that it would be more then $5,000, and that does not include the graphics!

Maybe I can get a buddy who runs a wrap business in Edmonton to wrap it with a derogatory statement?

:whistling::lol:

[Frank G]

If I ever go through the pain of painting and clear coat, I would NEVER apply another graphic. That is just me, especially one that offers free advertising.

I asked the how much question at the Cedar Creek facility for a custom paint job (witch they offer) and was told it to be north of $9,000.00. Those are 3+ colors.

[MN Blue Skies]

Rusty, in June we bought a used 2013 Cougar High Country 315RES. We have the exact same ghosting pattern on the left side and the cap is faded. From reading the post it seems like we were naive in thinking that there would be some magic solution and would not require repainting. I guess we are stuck unless someone finds a fix.

It's odd that our patterns are exactly the same and it isn't a problem on the other side of the 5th wheel. That makes me think it has something to do with how the finish was applied at the factory.

I am not a technical person but I have good critical thinking skills.

[Rusty]

So I have talked with Calgary Coachworks, and they said painting the front cap with automotive grade finishes will be the order of the day, he said they do about 2 dozen a year. Hmmmm imagine that others out there that have had to have the same fix carried out on what some say is dust, dirt, and dew........

And for those that say it is dew and/or dirt, trust me it is NOT dust, dirt, dew or any other crap. The first pictures were taken after a few days of rain, so unless you wash and wax your unit after each rain fall spare me the talk!

Coachworks can give me the shine on the left side, however it is only a temp fix due to the poor materials used at the time of manufacture!

The front cap was waxed last Sept, so the crap materials used is only going to get worse!

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[CTufte]

I have a 2015 337FLS brought in October 2014 that has been stored indoors since new and have stickers peeling on the front cap. Also had to fix both fender skirts from screws falling out. The quality on this unit compared to the 2000 Holiday Rambler I had before is a joke. You would think a unit built fifteen years later would be better not worse.

[Rusty]

So it is in the shop getting detailed and repainted.

I do have a new Cougar sticker for the Cap that I got from Keystone shortly after we purchased the unit. Asked the shop to incorporate a Mountain silhouette instead of getting a Keystone themed Swoop.

Looking forward to seeing it sitting in our backyard as we sorta kinda miss seeing it sitting there, makes the backyard look a whole heck of a lot bigger without the trailer there.........

[Rusty]

Almost ready for pick up. Just have to have the street side buffed and polished.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171203/fd456ab8a05f36e58442b7c17f0ad823.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171203/2f199bb2fd1841d559a66026497106c0.jpg

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[Hodgy]

.

Rusty that sure looks purtey !

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[Rusty]

.

Rusty that sure looks purtey !

.Just after we purchased it I noticed a corner of the Cougar graphic was lifting, contacted Keystone and they sent a new Cougar graphic.

The difference is i asked to have a mountain silhouette with the Cougar graphic.

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[pkemmerlin]

Mine is doing the exact same thing!! Contacted Keystone today and this is what I got” Thank you for sending me these pictures for review. After reviewing them with a Product Manager, he stated that it is clearly fading due to environmental factors. Just to clarify, this is not a paint issue as this sidewall is fiberglass and it is not painted. Since the warranty on your Cougar expired on 12/26/2016, Keystone would not be able to assist with repairs at this time.” I have mine waxed at least 4 times a year.

[pkemmerlin]

Are they just buffing and polishing the street side?