Newbie intro and opinions requested

[Joe A.]

Hello and thank you for the add! My DW and I have decided to purchase a 2017 UltraLite 199ML. Previously we have owned a Viking popup and a JayFeather hybrid. Neither got much use due to work schedules. We are now retired and looking forward to getting "out there." TV is a 2016 F150 5.0, 3.31 rear end and does not have the tow package. It does have factory hitch. Using some online tow calculators it seems I don't have enough TV. the specs, with actual weights with a full tank (36 gal) of fuel:
GVRW- 7000#, actual 5400
FRONT GAWR, 3450, actual 3120
REAR GAWR 3800, actual 2300
CARGO WEIGHT 1900
MAX GCRW 13,500
HITCH WEIGHT 500-750
TIRES 275/65/R18 ON 18.75 RIMS
TRAILER WEIGHT 3595 MAX 5200

How does this look to you more experienced folks? What if, after usual supplies / gear, throwing a 530# motorcycle or golf cart in the bed? Am I really that far off the mark?
thank you in advance and look forward to your thoughts and experience!

[bsmith0404]

You actually only have 1600 lbs cargo capacity, 7000-5400=1600. Did you weigh the truck with you and your DW in it or not? Anything you add is going to take away from that 1600, hitch, motorcycle, golf cart, camping gear. Then you still have to add the tongue weight. My guess the GCWR will probably be getting close as well, but I didn't really look at that because you will run out of payload anyway

[xrated]

+1 ^^^^^^

[Joe A.]

You actually only have 1600 lbs cargo capacity, 7000-5400=1600. Did you weigh the truck with you and your DW in it or not? Anything you add is going to take away from that 1600, hitch, motorcycle, golf cart, camping gear. Then you still have to add the tongue weight. My guess the GCWR will probably be getting close as well, but I didn't really look at that because you will run out of payload anyway

thanks for the response. The m/c is not necessary but would be nice on an extended trip. I do enough m/c tent camping that scratches that itch:)
From previous experience, counting occupants, dog, gear, supplies, WD hitch, 2 20 gal propane bottles, etc. I arrive at about 1400#. Assuming I forgot something and end up with the total available 1600#, I'm right where I don't want to be, at the absolute edge.
I'm irritated with myself because I considered an F250 this past November, but went with the F150 as I planned on working another 3 years and upgrade when I retired. I ended up retiring this past April, and to upgrade now I would probably take a bath on my truck.

thanks for your help. Back to the drawing board!!

[busterbrown]

The achilles heel of a 1/2 ton pickup is payload, especially if you plan on loading the bed with heavy cargo while towing. If you need payload for a golf cart or bike, a 3/4 ton gasser is a worthy upgrade. You'll have plenty of payload reserve.

[notanlines]

Joe, if you use the "search" function there is an absolute myriad of information available on this site concerning the benefits of half ton, three quarters ton and one ton trucks. Most (certainly not all) on here would agree that the step up would be better served by jumping right to a one ton SRW. Mind you, I'm not suggesting you make the trade right now. I have not put a pencil to the weights on your rig. Load everything exactly as you would for a camping trip, with the motorcycle, and see where your numbers lead you after a trip across a Cat scale. Then you decide for yourself what's right.
By the way, welcome to the forum.

[xrated]

The achilles heel of a 1/2 ton pickup is payload, especially if you plan on loading the bed with heavy cargo while towing. If you need payload for a golf cart or bike, a 3/4 ton gasser is a worthy upgrade. You'll have plenty of payload reserve.

You also have to be pretty careful with the payload numbers even on an F250, as I discovered last fall when I started looking for a 5th wheel T.H. I had bought my truck in 2010, ignorant of payload capacities, etc. I figured that if I bought a 3/4T Diesel, I could tow about anything that I wanted to tow. Boy, was I WRONG! I started looking at 5vers in the size that I wanted and soon found out that the 2150 lb payload of my F250 CC 4x4 Diesel wasn't even close to the payload that I needed for putting a 36-38' Fiver on the back. I was going to be anywhere from 500 to 1000 lbs overloaded, and that was before I bought a 5ver hitch and before I was loaded. It caused me to change plans and buy a tow behind T.H. Even at that, try as I may, I had the F250 right to the ragged edge on GVWR of the truck, and still needed more tongue weight on the T.H. after getting all my stuff loaded in the garage area of it. I ended up trading in the very nicee F250 that I had and getting a F350 CC Dually for towing the T.H. about a month ago. I now had the ability to add more tongue weight on the T.H. without going over any of the capacities of the truck (duh), and my last outing (approx. 700 miles), the T.H. towed like a dream...rock solid, no sway, and over the Smoky Mountains. Life is good! :bdance: :thumbsup:

[Joe A.]

Joe, if you use the "search" function there is an absolute myriad of information available on this site concerning the benefits of half ton, three quarters ton and one ton trucks. Most (certainly not all) on here would agree that the step up would be better served by jumping right to a one ton SRW. Mind you, I'm not suggesting you make the trade right now. I have not put a pencil to the weights on your rig. Load everything exactly as you would for a camping trip, with the motorcycle, and see where your numbers lead you after a trip across a Cat scale. Then you decide for yourself what's right.
By the way, welcome to the forum.

thanks Jim and everyone else for the replies. I have probably read at least 200 threads since yesterday and if nothing else I learned the limitations on 1/2 tons, particularly re: payload and TW. I am now researching how bad of a bath I'll take by upgrading 7 months into a new truck and will make my decision based on those results. then there is gas vs. diesel, 250 vs. 350....where does it all end:lol: Seriously, these are 1st world problems, no complaints here!

[chuckster57]

Gas vs Diesel: having had both, diesel wins hands down.

250/2500 vs 350/3500: If you even think your going to upgrade the trailer later, take a bath once.

[ctbruce]

You can never have too much truck. Too little, yep. Too much, nope! I bought a 3500 SRW diesel, up from a 1500. One of these days I'll need a dually, but not anytime soon. Plus it's fun to sit high, be road stable and feel like a big guy. At least in my head....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[linux3]

I may be setting my self up for it but here goes.
Joe A your TT loaded will be around 5k and depending on how you load it around 650 lbs tongue weight. Add your 530 lb mc plus stuff and people and you are still under your GVW. Not by a lot, but you are. Smaller, lighter MC maybe?
It's a small light TT and you have a F150. It's a truck with a V8 to pull a small TT for goodness sake. Get yourself a good load leveling / sway hitch and go enjoy.
A MC or golf cart is going to be a pain to load / unload. Get a couple of bikes, with electric motors if you like. My 195RB is very similar to what you are looking at. I've hauled it thousands of miles a season with a Chevy 1500 loving life.

Some of the very helpful folks on this site are a little too much into bigger is better but!
IMHO, if you want to haul a MC or golf cart plus your TT some people here are right, you need a bigger truck. But you also need a bigger TT. Maybe a toy hauler.

[Joe A.]

I may be setting my self up for it but here goes.
Joe A your TT loaded will be around 5k and depending on how you load it around 650 lbs tongue weight. Add your 530 lb mc plus stuff and people and you are still under your GVW. Not by a lot, but you are. Smaller, lighter MC maybe?
It's a small light TT and you have a F150. It's a truck with a V8 to pull a small TT for goodness sake. Get yourself a good load leveling / sway hitch and go enjoy.
A MC or golf cart is going to be a pain to load / unload. Get a couple of bikes, with electric motors if you like. My 195RB is very similar to what you are looking at. I've hauled it thousands of miles a season with a Chevy 1500 loving life.

Some of the very helpful folks on this site are a little too much into bigger is better but!
IMHO, if you want to haul a MC or golf cart plus your TT some people here are right, you need a bigger truck. But you also need a bigger TT. Maybe a toy hauler.

Thanks Rob! bringing a m/c or golf cart would be nice but not necessary. I'm lucky that I can get 3 or 4 long solo m/c trips in a year. I just returned from the BRP / NC trip (from the Finger Lakes NY) last week. So, without the m/c or cart, I should be okay. We travel rather light, My GSD weighs as much as my wife, I'm the heavyweight at 220#:lol:

[linux3]

Joe, got back a few weeks ago from WV, TN, KY, MO, KS, IL, Ohio, PA and home. Little over 3300 miles. 2 weeks and we're off to MI and Iowa.
Fun stuff.

[Joe A.]

Joe, got back a few weeks ago from WV, TN, KY, MO, KS, IL, Ohio, PA and home. Little over 3300 miles. 2 weeks and we're off to MI and Iowa.
Fun stuff.


Just noted in your sig line that you're in WNY. I grew up in Cheek-to-Vegas and currently live near Conesus Lake / Rochester. Where you located?

[linux3]

Henrietta.

[Joe A.]

small world. But as they say, I'd hate to paint it! What WD are you using? The more I read here the deeper in the weeds I'm getting!

[bsmith0404]

The bath you take on a trade isn't ever going to go away. Yes you can pay it down so you don't have negative equity, but that simply means you've spent more money on payments. The initial hit of depreciation is in the first year and you've already taken it. That hit doesn't go away just because you keep the truck a bit longer. My opinion, just get a truck that lets you do what you want and not have to worry about weights. It's an RV, recreation is the key part of the title. Get a truck that allows you to do what you enjoy, not what fits within your trucks abilities.

[sourdough]

I may be setting my self up for it but here goes.
Joe A your TT loaded will be around 5k and depending on how you load it around 650 lbs tongue weight. Add your 530 lb mc plus stuff and people and you are still under your GVW. Not by a lot, but you are. Smaller, lighter MC maybe?
It's a small light TT and you have a F150. It's a truck with a V8 to pull a small TT for goodness sake. Get yourself a good load leveling / sway hitch and go enjoy.
A MC or golf cart is going to be a pain to load / unload. Get a couple of bikes, with electric motors if you like. My 195RB is very similar to what you are looking at. I've hauled it thousands of miles a season with a Chevy 1500 loving life.

Some of the very helpful folks on this site are a little too much into bigger is better but!
IMHO, if you want to haul a MC or golf cart plus your TT some people here are right, you need a bigger truck. But you also need a bigger TT. Maybe a toy hauler.


I think those folks on here that seem a "little too much into bigger is better" are those that have been there and done that. Once you've made the cycle you try to help those that are at beginning of the cycle and hope to prevent them from doing the same thing. Once you've been through the cycle it's easy too look back and see all the things you could have done to prevent it. When you are at the beginning of the cycle you can't see those things.

I've been through 2 1/2 ton trucks trying to "make it better"; one traded at 9 months, one at about a 1 1/2 years. I'm on my 2500 HD gasser now and I've already decided to go to a 1 ton diesel next go round. Why? After all I've tried to do to the trucks, hoping that this or that will get better, my question to myself, and anyone else, is why not?

I wasn't born thinking bigger is better, nor have I ever owned a diesel for personal use, but, I've traveled this road and I'm still traveling it; all I know is every time I upgrade I have a better, safer towing experience.

[sourdough]

thanks for the response. The m/c is not necessary but would be nice on an extended trip. I do enough m/c tent camping that scratches that itch:)
From previous experience, counting occupants, dog, gear, supplies, WD hitch, 2 20 gal propane bottles, etc. I arrive at about 1400#. Assuming I forgot something and end up with the total available 1600#, I'm right where I don't want to be, at the absolute edge.
I'm irritated with myself because I considered an F250 this past November, but went with the F150 as I planned on working another 3 years and upgrade when I retired. I ended up retiring this past April, and to upgrade now I would probably take a bath on my truck.

thanks for your help. Back to the drawing board!!

If you bought a new truck (or new car) you took a "bath" when you signed on the dotted line; nothing brings that back. As bsmith0404 said, you can pay down the balance but you will never get the lost money back. I've bought countless new cars and trucks for my personal use. I've taken the "bath" on every one of them when traded in. Once the document is signed it's literally a catch 22; you can pay longer and owe less, but you get less for the trade - you can't win it.

I know you just retired, and earlier than you thought. If it were me I would just trade and get the vehicle you actually need. You do not gain ground by waiting an paying payments while your trade depreciates and the new vehicles get pricier. Heck, I bought a new Explorer 11 months ago. I loved the body style and thought I would like the vehicle. I hated it. On my recent trip to CO I told my wife while in Pagosa; "this is it. This thing is gone as soon as I get back to TX". She said "you just bought it, you'll lose money" to which I replied.....see what I said above. I have a new SUV now and loving it. You'll be the same with your new truck - and you won't be picking and choosing on what you can take, worried about being overweight, worried about the trailer wagging the truck and taking you out....all gone; and it only costs a few bucks:angel:

[busterbrown]

I may be setting my self up for it but here goes.
Joe A your TT loaded will be around 5k and depending on how you load it around 650 lbs tongue weight. Add your 530 lb mc plus stuff and people and you are still under your GVW. Not by a lot, but you are. Smaller, lighter MC maybe?
It's a small light TT and you have a F150. It's a truck with a V8 to pull a small TT for goodness sake. Get yourself a good load leveling / sway hitch and go enjoy.
A MC or golf cart is going to be a pain to load / unload. Get a couple of bikes, with electric motors if you like. My 195RB is very similar to what you are looking at. I've hauled it thousands of miles a season with a Chevy 1500 loving life.

Some of the very helpful folks on this site are a little too much into bigger is better but!
IMHO, if you want to haul a MC or golf cart plus your TT some people here are right, you need a bigger truck. But you also need a bigger TT. Maybe a toy hauler.

I agree 100%. If the OP is looking at keeping his trailer small and light (without the intention of upgrading to a 5th wheel or larger TT), best case would be to keep his current truck. This is also under the assumption that a gulf cart or m/c isn't required. A handful of trips through the year with his current coach and TV should be adequate, safe, and enjoyable. He should take the aforementioned advice and use a quality WDH with sway control though.

If the OP has all the intention in the world to upgrade (sooner than later) to a double/triple axle TH (or coach > 12,000 lbs on the GVW), he should start the process of trading up his TV to a 1 ton variety.

The third senario of him keeping his current TT and increasing payload to support a bed full of toys, a 3/4 ton gasser would be a more than enough TV.

The belief that "you can never have too much truck" doesn't fly (or stick) for many people who KNOW they will NEVER upgrade to a larger coach and have no foreseeable desire to tug their trailer more than a handful of times throughout the year. YMMV.

[sourdough]

I agree 100%. If the OP is looking at keeping his trailer small and light (without the intention of upgrading to a 5th wheel or larger TT), best case would be to keep his current truck. This is also under the assumption that a gulf cart or m/c isn't required. A handful of trips through the year with his current coach and TV should be adequate, safe, and enjoyable. He should take the aforementioned advice and use a quality WDH with sway control though.

If the OP has all the intention in the world to upgrade (sooner than later) to a double/triple axle TH (or coach > 12,000 lbs on the GVW), he should start the process of trading up his TV to a 1 ton variety.

The third senario of him keeping his current TT and increasing payload to support a bed full of toys, a 3/4 ton gasser would be a more than enough TV.

The belief that "you can never have too much truck" doesn't fly (or stick) for many people who KNOW they will NEVER upgrade to a larger coach and have no foreseeable desire to tug their trailer more than a handful of times throughout the year. YMMV.



To me, this post is misleading.


"If the OP has all the intention in the world to upgrade (sooner than later) to a double/triple axle TH (or coach > 12,000 lbs on the GVW), he should start the process of trading up his TV to a 1 ton variety."

This indicates, to me, that the poster advocates that an F150, with a 5.0 and 3.31 gears should not worry unless they are looking at a double/triple axle TH in excess of 12k lbs. Obviously this is just wrong.....really wrong.

As far as all those folks that KNOW, really KNOW that they will never have a larger trailer........well, I'm sure folks can chime in on that.

[busterbrown]

To me, this post is misleading.


"If the OP has all the intention in the world to upgrade (sooner than later) to a double/triple axle TH (or coach > 12,000 lbs on the GVW), he should start the process of trading up his TV to a 1 ton variety."

This indicates, to me, that the poster advocates that an F150, with a 5.0 and 3.31 gears should not worry unless they are looking at a double/triple axle TH in excess of 12k lbs. Obviously this is just wrong.....really wrong.

As far as all those folks that KNOW, really KNOW that they will never have a larger trailer........well, I'm sure folks can chime in on that.

There you go again, attempting to fracture, muddle, and undermine a personal statement by a forum member. It gets old quickly.

[Joe A.]

I agree 100%. If the OP is looking at keeping his trailer small and light (without the intention of upgrading to a 5th wheel or larger TT), best case would be to keep his current truck. This is also under the assumption that a gulf cart or m/c isn't required. A handful of trips through the year with his current coach and TV should be adequate, safe, and enjoyable. He should take the aforementioned advice and use a quality WDH with sway control though.

If the OP has all the intention in the world to upgrade (sooner than later) to a double/triple axle TH (or coach > 12,000 lbs on the GVW), he should start the process of trading up his TV to a 1 ton variety.

The third senario of him keeping his current TT and increasing payload to support a bed full of toys, a 3/4 ton gasser would be a more than enough TV.

The belief that "you can never have too much truck" doesn't fly (or stick) for many people who KNOW they will NEVER upgrade to a larger coach and have no foreseeable desire to tug their trailer more than a handful of times throughout the year. YMMV.

Everyone has made very valid points, and learned them the hard way and I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. As much as I would like to go to a larger unit, the physical limitations of where I live make that an issue. the property pretty much dictates the size. My SIL had his 27' boat here last summer and had to back down our dead end street (4 houses) to get in the driveway. making the turn getting out of the driveway was a challenge.
We're both happy with the size of the trailer and it should suffice for a few years at least. A ride thru the dealer lot this morning showed a few left over F250's with attractive pricing. I'll be heading there tomorrow to see if I can work a deal. I agree a larger truck is the way to go, especially if we end up leaving on extended trips over the winter, I would like a bike with me. As long as my wife is happy with the trailer, it seems like it would work in the meantime. I'll be searching this forum for WD discussions. thanks again for sharing your experiences!

[linux3]

To me, this post is misleading.

As far as all those folks that KNOW, really KNOW that they will never have a larger trailer........well, I'm sure folks can chime in on that.

My TV is my every day driver. A 2500 or 3500 just rides harder and gets poorer gas mileage. It's more than sufficient for my TT.

A couple of examples of our STYLE of road trip. Driving East on US 30 we saw a sign for the Jessie James Homestead. Lets go see. Small parking lot off a rural road. Even my rig took some thought and effort to park.

We stopped to see the Lincoln Home and national park. Downtown Springfield and very limited parking.

Ever parallel park a rig? I did when we saw a sign for the "Y" bridge in Zanesville Ohio and thought we'd take a look.

A 19.5 footer with a Murphy bed and a Silverado 1500 gives us all the creature comforts we want while still being handy in tight or out of the way places.

To each his own. Just get out there and see the sights.

[JRTJH]

My TV is my every day driver. A 2500 or 3500 just rides harder and gets poorer gas mileage. It's more than sufficient for my TT....

A 19.5 footer with a Murphy bed and a Silverado 1500 gives us all the creature comforts we want while still being handy in tight or out of the way places.
To each his own. Just get out there and see the sights.

Just an observation of your comments:
You suggest that a 2500 rides harder and gets poorer gas mileage, and that your 19.5' trailer is handy in tight places.

We've been all over the US in our F250, get 16MPG in the city and about 21 on the highway, find that it rides better than our previous F150 and we've never had a problem even in "downtown traffic in Washington DC.

In reality, your 199RB, which you describe as a 19.5' trailer is actually 23'4" long and the Silverado 1500 CC/SB is 230.03" long. By comparison, the Silverado 2500 CC/SB is 239.5" long. You're talking an additional 9.4" in overall length of a 42'+ rig. Even when driving solo, the added length is negligible. So, size and comfort are more a matter of perspective than physical limitations.

To address the comparison to a "properly equipped half ton truck" (which apparently you own) to the OP's F150 which does not have a towing package and is limited by the 3.31 gearing is "apples and oranges". While your truck may do well with the trailer you own, most would agree that the OP's F150 is not properly equipped for towing the trailer he's considering. In the comparison, it's how the OP's truck is equipped, not the fact that it's a half ton truck that makes the difference.

You're right, to each his own, and as long as you're doing it safely, go see the sights.

[sourdough]

There you go again, attempting to fracture, muddle, and undermine a personal statement by a forum member. It gets old quickly.

Not trying to fracture, muddle or undermine anything you said, or have said. If you took it that way I apologize.

I took a statement that, to me, implied something that was inappropriate. Instead of saying the statement was wrong, as in the way I interpreted it, I should have said it was wrong if that was the intent of the statement.