New Converter time?

[B-O-B'03]

Started DE-winterizing the trailer this weekend and filled the water tank to sanitize it.

I was running the pump quite a bit and noticed it slowing down, even though I was plugged in to 30 amp shore power.

Pushed the button for the battery charge indicator lights, on the panel and only 3 were lit.

I got my 15 amp battery charger hooked up and things started working normally, this leads me to believe both the converter and batteries are toast :(

The current converter is a WFCO 8950, just over 2 years old as of last month :facepalm:

I did some web searching, for a replacement converter, there are lots of choices, any recommendations from the collective?

A replacement board for WFCO seems to be the cheapest option, just not sure if that is the best option.

I am considering switching to 6V golfcart batteries too.

Thanks,

-Brian

[BuxCamper]

I've never heard of a situation such as yours but try disconnecting the battery and run the pump again. Maybe the converter was at its power limit trying to charge the battery and run the pump.

-- Mark

[PARAPTOR]

I would check the Battery disconnect switch and make sure you battery is connected to the Power Distribution Panel. Sounds like even though you are connected to shore power and I assume the breaker is on to the converter, you do not have a circuit from the converter to the battery (disconnect Switch). Yes it could be a bad converter, but would check position of the disconnect switch and make sure it is functioning properly .

Notice you said when you place your battery charger on the battery all goes back to normal, same thing should happen when your converter is connected and functioning. Have you put a meter on the battery going this process.

[B-O-B'03]

I've never heard of a situation such as yours but try disconnecting the battery and run the pump again. Maybe the converter was at its power limit trying to charge the battery and run the pump.

-- Mark

Hi Mark, it is supposed to be a 50 amp converter, doubt that I was hitting the limit, but I did put a clamp-on current meter on the positive battery cable and very few amps were flowing into the battery.

I would check the Battery disconnect switch and make sure you battery is connected to the Power Distribution Panel. Sounds like even though you are connected to shore power and I assume the breaker is on to the converter, you do not have a circuit from the converter to the battery (disconnect Switch). Yes it could be a bad converter, but would check position of the disconnect switch and make sure it is functioning properly .

Notice you said when you place your battery charger on the battery all goes back to normal, same thing should happen when your converter is connected and functioning. Have you put a meter on the battery going this process.

Thanks PARAPTOR, There is no disconnect switch on my trailer and I did have a clamp-on current meter on the positive battery cable.

I am fairly confident in my diagnosis, just looking for replacement converter recommendations.

Thanks,

-Brian

[JRTJH]

Don't forget to check your reverse polarity fuses on the converter. Sometimes a surge will cause one (or both) of them to blow. If that happens, the converter will provide power but won't recharge the battery. Additionally, it's the time of year when a battery that's been sitting in the garage all winter will simply "give up the ghost" and need replacement. So charge the battery fully with your external battery charger, take it to an auto parts store and have it load tested. You may need a replacement battery.

Good luck

ADDED: The WFCO 8950 is the AC power panel/circuit breakers. That's not the DC amperage rating. The converter is the "rest of that assembly" that is wired to the AC power panel. It is typically rated at 55, 65, 75 amps DC power. The WFCO 8950 is a "stand alone power center" designed to be used with a "stand alone converter". It's a 2 piece system.

[PARAPTOR]

Interesting!!! No factory installed Battery Disconnect Switch :confused: Thought all rigs had one :facepalm: As stated Reverse Polarity Fuses would also open the charging circuit.

[chuckster57]

Interesting!!! No factory installed Battery Disconnect Switch :confused: Thought all rigs had one :facepalm: As stated Reverse Polarity Fuses would also open the charging circuit.



Lots of RV's don't have a factory battery disconnect. None of mine have had one. Thought about adding one to current rig, but thinking is about as far as I get LOL.

[BuxCamper]

Lots of RV's don't have a factory battery disconnect. None of mine have had one. Thought about adding one to current rig, but thinking is about as far as I get LOL.
Same boat here. I wonder if they're more standard in rigs that typically have multiple batteries.

I've added disconnects at the battery cables using heavy duty connectors called Power Poles. This let's me take the battery completely off the camper.

-- Mark

[chuckster57]

I think is more brand specific. For example every Grand Design unit comes from the factory with a disconnect. Venture doesn't install a switch, and neither does Prime Time.

[B-O-B'03]

Don't forget to check your reverse polarity fuses on the converter. Sometimes a surge will cause one (or both) of them to blow. If that happens, the converter will provide power but won't recharge the battery. Additionally, it's the time of year when a battery that's been sitting in the garage all winter will simply "give up the ghost" and need replacement. So charge the battery fully with your external battery charger, take it to an auto parts store and have it load tested. You may need a replacement battery.

Good luck

ADDED: The WFCO 8950 is the AC power panel/circuit breakers. That's not the DC amperage rating. The converter is the "rest of that assembly" that is wired to the AC power panel. It is typically rated at 55, 65, 75 amps DC power. The WFCO 8950 is a "stand alone power center" designed to be used with a "stand alone converter". It's a 2 piece system.

Hi John,

I checked, the converter is an 8955, 55 amp unit, according to the label on it.

The fuses are all good, the voltage at the battery terminals is within .03 volts of what is at the converter, the camper is parked under a cover, on a pad, with 30 amp service, so it is plugged in all the time.

I have found some replacement units, on line, that just replace the converter part. One, made by boondocker, claims to be a direct fit, 4 stage unit and another made by progressive dynamics - also a 4 stage unit, but comes with a remote monitor/control panel.

I read some posts, on another forum, that the PD unit is better at quickly charging the batteries, if using a generator for short bursts, since it stays in boost longer than the boondocker.

I am thinking if I am spending money, I might as well get a better unit than the one that failed in less than 2 years.

Anyone using either of these?

Thanks,

-Brian

[JRTJH]

If I were you, I'd install a replacement from either WFCO (the OEM converter) or modify the system by installing a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger. If you're able to follow instructions and have any electrical/electronics experience, installing the PD converter is not difficult. Just be sure to "think through the connections" rather than just connect wires where they look like they go.... Nothing tricky, nothing particularly difficult, it's just that installing something that's "different from what was removed" makes the task not completely 'foolproof"...

Personally, I've never had any problems with WFCO products and all my experience with them has been that they are a reliable, quality product. Hopefully I haven't "jinxed" myself with that statement, but I'd be inclined to use the OEM converter/charger. However, either will work, probably equally well so long as you install it correctly...

You mentioned going with a dual 6 volt battery system. That will probably be your "best mod of the season"....

[JRTJH]

Brian,

After posting the preceding response I realized that you had stated in your post that the original converter had failed "in less than two years". There is a 2 year warranty provided by WFCO on their products. I've heard that they are extremely liberal with warranty replacements and offer excellent warranty support. If your trailer is less than 2 years old or even if it's close to the expiration date, you might want to give WFCO a call and chat with them. Often they'll ship you a replacement for no charge. Just a thought, but that's the price of one of your 6 volt batteries..... :cool:

[BuxCamper]

I agree WFCO converters quickly developed a great reputation. I just have a feeling something is being overlooked. However any electronic device can fail.

-- Mark

[Dave W]

I replaced the 65 amp version (WYCO WF9865) in our 5er with a 75 amp version (WF9875) last fall because their 5 buck (MSRP) computer fan was droning/vibrating and my DW could hear/feel it (I could hear it if my hearing aids were 'installed'). The added cost to upsize is negligible. It's a very easy job, but with that said, be sure that your wiring will support that larger capacity converter and that it will plug in the back side of the power center without replacing the plug. I also mounted the new converter on some rubber isolators. And that old converter - a 10 buck fan was ordered and replaced the bad one so I now have a spare:D

Oh and the battery disconnect - always a good idea for about $25. Ours has an OEM that will disconnect some things but there are a few circuits that stay live, i.e. the LPG monitor. My fix is to add a second disconnect that completely isolates the battery - I generally use a Marinco or Longacre two pole version

[B-O-B'03]

Brian,

After posting the preceding response I realized that you had stated in your post that the original converter had failed "in less than two years". There is a 2 year warranty provided by WFCO on their products. I've heard that they are extremely liberal with warranty replacements and offer excellent warranty support. If your trailer is less than 2 years old or even if it's close to the expiration date, you might want to give WFCO a call and chat with them. Often they'll ship you a replacement for no charge. Just a thought, but that's the price of one of your 6 volt batteries..... :cool:

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice... the trailer is 2 years and a month old and I am not sure exactly when it failed, hence my less than 2 years comment.

It is worth a shot and I'll give them a hail and see what happens.

Thanks,

-Brian

[Outback 325BH]

This is the first thread I have read that has good things to say about a WFCO converter. Many folks have replaced their WFCO units with aftermarket (Progressive Dynamics being the most common) ones... even while the WFCO unit still "works." I of course say "works" in quotes because it is their lack of proper charging even when functioning.

I can't imagine anyone going through the process of replacing their converter and using another WFCO as the replacement.


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[Jetfixer03]

IMO, if you're thinking about upgrading to 6v batteries I'd consider either upgrading the charger, or choosing batteries that match the WFCO's charge profile. Each battery manufacturer will state the optimal charge voltages for the 3 charge cycles. By choosing a converter/charger that most closely matches the recommended voltages for your particular batteries you'll get the 'fullest', quickest, and safest charge. Charging at too high a voltage can result in excess "boiling off", too low in sulfation. I believe the WFCO's bulk charge voltage is 14.4v. Trojan T105's, for example, recommend 14.8v bulk charge. At 14.4v you may never reach their full charge capacity. At a lower voltage you could eventually get there, but the bulk charge cycle may time out before that happens. Interstate batteries, on the other hand, look like they more closely match the WFCO's charge profile.

Personally, I upgraded my charger when I upgraded to 6v's because I want to charge as quickly and fully as possible off my generator, plus I think it's healthier for the batteries. People upgrade to T105's all the time and keep the stock converter, no biggie, it works...just not as optimally as it could, as I understand it anyhow. Something like a Progressive Dynamics or IOTA charger doesn't cost much more, but you may end up upgrading the battery cables as well to meet their recommendations. That adds some cost and labor, for sure.

Here are a couple of articles I found helpful: http://popupbackpacker.com/state-of-charge-your-camperrv-may-be-killing-your-battery-bank/
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

Having said all that, I have the brand new WFCO 8955PEC that I removed from my trailer. I had it plugged in for about 1 day before I pulled it. I'd sell it for about half of retail, PM me if you're interested.

[eds451]

My original 07 WFCO died last fall. Replaced with a Progressive Dynamics. 2 cooling fans and a remote monitor. Well worth the $20 more than a WFCO IMHO.

[B-O-B'03]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I contacted WFCO and they sent me a return authorization # for the defective unit. The trailer was 2 years old the 19th of March.

After some more research and the suggestions I received from members here I think I will go ahead and get the PD replacement main board that also includes the remote display/controller. I am not sure I want to fool with shipping the WFCO back and keeping it as a spare... the PD unit comes with a 3 year warranty... Maybe I should offer it up to anyone that wants a replacement, cheap?

Now I need to find a new battery box that will hold 2 X GC2 batteries - end 2 end, the existing space should accommodate that, any recommendations there?

Battery and box shopping I go, thanks again everyone.

-Brian

[Jetfixer03]

The only easy way to fit mine were end to end as well. I searched high and low, not many choices. I bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/272194639847?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

I wasn't crazy about white, but it is pretty thick and stout. I'm happy with it. I did just see this one as well, it's a bit more $$:

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/durable-battery-storage-box-for-2-6v-golf-cart-batteries-end-to-end?gclid=CjwKEAjw8ZzHBRCUwrrV59XinXUSJADSTE5kQ2Mh fVzbJIyRMs7OJchEe04AJ6OaoYCkM-ty_WcI5hoCbRnw_wcB

[dirt33]

I also searched high and low for an end-to-end battery box to hold two GC2 six volt batteries. I have the unit pictured in both links above, that is the same box in both. It is solid, light, and satisfactory to me. It was spendy, yes.

Here is a link to the item directly on All Battery's website, for a bit cheaper price than the ebay link from their store. The ebay link does say $69.00 and free shipping. I paid $71.61 through All Battery themselves for the item and shipping to TX.

http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,576.html

[Outback 325BH]

Thanks for the input everyone.



I contacted WFCO and they sent me a return authorization # for the defective unit. The trailer was 2 years old the 19th of March.



After some more research and the suggestions I received from members here I think I will go ahead and get the PD replacement main board that also includes the remote display/controller. I am not sure I want to fool with shipping the WFCO back and keeping it as a spare... the PD unit comes with a 3 year warranty... Maybe I should offer it up to anyone that wants a replacement, cheap?



Now I need to find a new battery box that will hold 2 X GC2 batteries - end 2 end, the existing space should accommodate that, any recommendations there?



Battery and box shopping I go, thanks again everyone.



-Brian



I have this: http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,576.html

But not the end-to-end version, I have the side-by-side version.

The box is very nice and includes a lid.

Those boxes are tall enough for the taller Trojans. I run T105s but the taller ones will fit.




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[B-O-B'03]

The only easy way to fit mine were end to end as well. I searched high and low, not many choices. I bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/272194639847?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

I wasn't crazy about white, but it is pretty thick and stout. I'm happy with it. I did just see this one as well, it's a bit more $$:

http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/durable-battery-storage-box-for-2-6v-golf-cart-batteries-end-to-end?gclid=CjwKEAjw8ZzHBRCUwrrV59XinXUSJADSTE5kQ2Mh fVzbJIyRMs7OJchEe04AJ6OaoYCkM-ty_WcI5hoCbRnw_wcB

I also searched high and low for an end-to-end battery box to hold two GC2 six volt batteries. I have the unit pictured in both links above, that is the same box in both. It is solid, light, and satisfactory to me. It was spendy, yes.

Here is a link to the item directly on All Battery's website, for a bit cheaper price than the ebay link from their store. The ebay link does say $69.00 and free shipping. I paid $71.61 through All Battery themselves for the item and shipping to TX.

http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,576.html

I have this: http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,576.html

But not the end-to-end version, I have the side-by-side version.

The box is very nice and includes a lid.

Those boxes are tall enough for the taller Trojans. I run T105s but the taller ones will fit.


Thanks folks, I had found that box as well as a diamond plate version (which I did not even price). I am surprised there are not more choices.

White won't be too bad, since the propane tank cover is also white.

How are you guys mounting them and how does the cover attach?

I looked at batteries today, Costco sells a 210 Amp hour interstate battery for around $90 and batteries plus has a 230 Amp hour Duracell for $109, and they are offering a 10% internet discount, bringing it closer to the Costco price for a little higher capacity.

I guess I will have some work to do in a few days.

Thanks again for the support, this place is truly a treasure.

-Brian

[dirt33]

How are you guys mounting them and how does the cover attach?

-Brian

The cover doesn't attach at all, it just sits on the base, with about a one inch lip holding it in place. I have the box sitting in the angle iron channel that the previous single battery box sat in. The channel on my TT houses this dual battery box perfectly, with less than 1/2" to spare width-wise and less than an inch length-wise. The weight of the two batteries in the box plants the box in that channel pretty solidly, to the point that I have to give it nearly all my strength to move the box back and forth within the 1/2" to 1" gaps. Currently, I am just using one battery strap ran around and under the box and angle iron, to keep the lid from coming off, and to keep the entire box from jumping up out of the channel. But, I don't really like that I cannot pull the battery strap through its loop/latch tight enough for my liking. So, I plan to either replace the battery strap with a ratchet strap, or perhaps incorporate some angle iron/eye hooks/bolts welded to the lower channel through which I would run a locking cable of some sort. But, I really doubt that I will get ambitious enough to do that, and will likely settle instead for a ratchet strap around the box.

For batteries, I went with two Duracell 6 volt from Sam's Club. I have boondocked with them one night so far, and voltage only dropped from 12.7 to 12.5 over a span of 18 hours, while using all equipment in the trailer "as normal." I also have run several tests at home with the shore power turned off, and have observed the batteries lose only 0.1 volt over the course of 48-72 hours (albeit with fairly minimal usage). Can't rate the longevity of these batteries yet of course, but so far I am pleased with their performance.

[Outback 325BH]

Here is what I did:

122241222512226

Mine just sits there. I attach the lid with bungee cords.


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[B-O-B'03]

Here is what I did:
Mine just sits there. I attach the lid with bungee cords.

That is a nice looking frame, did you build it or was it already there?
My frame is not wide enough to support the batteries in that configuration.

I put my internet buying finger to work and ordered 2 X 230 AH Duracell GC2, from batteries Plus with the local pickup option, a PD4655MBA converter from Best Converter and the end 2 end battery box that dirt33 is using.

2 batteries $253 and I get $36 back when I bring in my old ones
converter $205, including shipping
box $68, including shipping

So, for under $500 I have a new, more robust, 12 volt system.

I also boxed up the WFCO to send back in... I'll keep the replacement as a spare or re-install it if I ever trade this trailer in.

Thanks for all the guidance and suggestions.

-Brian

[Outback 325BH]

That is a nice looking frame, did you build it or was it already there?

My frame is not wide enough to support the batteries in that configuration.



I put my internet buying finger to work and ordered 2 X 230 AH Duracell GC2, from batteries Plus with the local pickup option, a PD4655MBA converter from Best Converter and the end 2 end battery box that dirt33 is using.



2 batteries $253 and I get $36 back when I bring in my old ones

converter $205, including shipping

box $68, including shipping



So, for under $500 I have a new, more robust, 12 volt system.



I also boxed up the WFCO to send back in... I'll keep the replacement as a spare or re-install it if I ever trade this trailer in.



Thanks for all the guidance and suggestions.



-Brian



The lower frame that the batteries sit on is factory, however I had concerns about the welds holding up to an additional 80 lbs or so. So... I fabricated the top brace that attaches to brackets that are bolted to the tongue. I didn't want to weld on the tongue so it is just bolted on.

That upper frame is just tight-fitting around the box (which is why paint has scraped off the box). If the bottom frame gives way, the upper one will hold.

Here is what it looks like out of the camper. Turns out it made a nice carrying handle too.

12237


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[B-O-B'03]

The lower frame that the batteries sit on is factory, however I had concerns about the welds holding up to an additional 80 lbs or so. So... I fabricated the top brace that attaches to brackets that are bolted to the tongue. I didn't want to weld on the tongue so it is just bolted on.

That upper frame is just tight-fitting around the box (which is why paint has scraped off the box). If the bottom frame gives way, the upper one will hold.

Here is what it looks like out of the camper. Turns out it made a nice carrying handle too.

12237


Very nice, my factory frame will only allow the batteries to be placed end to end.

Where did you get that jumper cable that is tying them together?

It looks nice and beefy.

Thanks,

-Brian

[Outback 325BH]

Very nice, my factory frame will only allow the batteries to be placed end to end.



Where did you get that jumper cable that is tying them together?



It looks nice and beefy.



Thanks,



-Brian



I got that cable from the place I bought the batteries. I plan to replace it with a heavier gauge but haven't gotten around to it yet.


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[Jeepshots]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but since ya'll are doing the 12-v to 6-v x2 battery conversion, i'm compelled to ask why? Is 6v batteries more "deep-cycle" than their 12v cousins? Is it simply to gain greater capacity?

[Jetfixer03]

I'm not an expert, but people generally upgrade to a 'true deep cycle' for more amp hours and longer life. Regarding 12v vs 6v, it looks to me like you can go 2x12v's in parallel (like trojan 27tmx's) or 2x6v's in series (like trojan t105's). In both cases you'd have similar AH capacity and cycle life, so I'm not sure if one has an advantage over the other. The two 12's would weigh a bit less. Keep in mind though, we're talking 'true deep cycle' 12v batteries, not an 'RV' battery. I think the 6v's are more readily available, that may be one reason for the popularity. If you REALLY have deep pockets Lithium batteries (LiFePO4) are a whole other level of performance, but that's another topic.

As far as cables, I just upgraded all my cabling and got it from http://http://www.bestboatwire.com/2-awg-battery-cable-tinned-marine-grade-wire-red-by-the-foot.
I've worked with aircraft wiring for 30 years, and I felt the quality of wire, terminals, and workmanship was good, and their prices are the best I've found. If you're comparing prices make sure you pay attention to whether they are tinned or not so that you're comparing apples to apples.

I just finally powered my system up today after chipping away at the work for a few weeks. No smoke!

[Outback 325BH]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but since ya'll are doing the 12-v to 6-v x2 battery conversion, i'm compelled to ask why? Is 6v batteries more "deep-cycle" than their 12v cousins? Is it simply to gain greater capacity?



Generally speaking...
two 6v golf cart batteries (in my case, Trojan T105), provide more AH (amp hours) than a good single 12 volt battery. In some cases A LOT more AH. In addition, 6v golf cart batteries (especially Trojan T105) have a proven track record for their durability and high number of drain-and-charge cycles.

For me, I didn't even have a "good" 12v battery -- it was a basic marine/RV battery which is not a true deep cycle. I was going to get a new battery so the decision had to be made. My existing battery box frame/mount was the perfect size for a dual 6v box. The choice was an easy one.

As part of the upgrade, I also replaced my WFCO converter with a new Progressive Dynamics converter with the "Charge Wizard" (do they even sell converters without the charge wizard?) and pendant. After paying attention to battery drain and converter charging cycles, I am very pleased with the combination.


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[B-O-B'03]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but since ya'll are doing the 12-v to 6-v x2 battery conversion, i'm compelled to ask why? Is 6v batteries more "deep-cycle" than their 12v cousins? Is it simply to gain greater capacity?

I am looking for both, greater capacity and longevity.

The dealer installed a single, group 24, interstate marine/RV battery when I bought the trailer, I added a second after I got it home, because we tend to dry camp a lot.

I am not sure of the amp hour capacity of them, but I am fairly sure it was less than I will be getting with the 230AH Duracell GC2 batteries I bought and I paid aboutt as much for the 12v unit as one of the GC2.

My converter was not working correctly, I think the 12v batteries were affected, most likely sulfated, so I am replacing everything.

The GC2 batteries are true deep cycle units and the factory rails on the camper will accommodate them end to end, with a new box that I ordered.

-Brian

[Jeepshots]

gotcha. I seem to remember golf carts running around all day long out on the course. Don't know if a 12v could do all-day runs.

[B-O-B'03]

I figured I would post an update.

I installed the progressive Dynamics converter, it was very simple and fit right into the space where the WFCO converter was, the electrical connections were the same as the old unit as well. This is definitely a beefier unit and it has 2 cooling fans on it, VS the single fan on the WFCO. The remote monitor was mounted on the pantry wall, just above the monitor for the EMS.

I neglected to take any pictures of the installation process :facepalm: but it was fairly straight forward.

I also installed a new battery box and 2 X GC2 batteries, in an end-2-end configuration, which fit into the existing space perfectly.

The old converter was shipped back to WFCO, who shipped me back a new replacement unit, under warranty.

I have a brand new WFCO-8955-MBA, if anyone needs one :D

All in, including shipping the old converter back, it was around $500... money well spent I am thinking.

-Brian

[W902]

Brian - interested in your spare converter. PM price and info. Thanks!

[B-O-B'03]

Brian - interested in your spare converter. PM price and info. Thanks!

PM sent :)

Thanks,

-Brian