Hello from Vancouver, BC

[andy-g]

Hi guys,

Looking forward to become a part of your community!

This Saturday I will be picking up a 2017 Passport 2520RLWE (West Edition).
Anxiously trying to make sure that I don't forget anything while picking it or whatever should be done to my tow vehicle.
This 2520RLWE is my first "full-size" trailer. Up until now I was using a smaller Trailmanor 2720SL (collapsable), much lighter (~3000lb).
Have no idea how heavier weight would feel (5000lb?)
My tow vehicle is rated to 7200lb with tongue weight 720lb. But it is a short-wheel based car - 2011 BMW X5 35d (diesel).
I did tow a much heavier load couple years ago (~9000lb), and that was not much fun :devil:

One thing I remembered barely in time - to get a raised hitch bar. :facepalm: My car's hitch is low, ball is at 18" only, and as per my measurements in the dealership, I need to raise it to 23.5"-24".

Anyway, looking forward to a new experience! :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_s6fz2SZc6xkZBVvXDGu2XOifhwKiProxu4iFA68isQBBOb1Tp G9yI9cY8afalSRQusqCtcArUqXH3mWejenzOP_x6gKy42VAyrq 0KOXg-xMsAOJdDwgfvLh7oycflOtlkuhLhN6r0FZ-JKR302vBJMDUbFfEpCCOqhlhYf6VrFgZJ7AYVJ2Zl5Py-pUS7nuXr3CMsio9hiGDdKEggiXLzos4MaZh5bWzrsqvyreqlXp P5mxVCqSIKUtzxiMq4wIAaK-L8SxHgEnrYqWqvjVQzU6GzdHilQ-qq4X5ZLKCI8JeYJlnJjTAqFREHv6AnT0rciXhErqe1o67RpmAG stieRHv6GU3V2bYGLuxWzAkdYskrAEQ2__VF3hL92Q3ZwleL9r dwj5x2cVVYl03vuTlPQNpgpX0rfBSyS-dKU2MyDTcIbfSSwcEJT1xExBjWLlO3i5GEoCFUeDV2VfcGuaIf DOirHDw7-412NY5NQVdlqlKyC5qOj1ARKzzoadWBE0mHma76uQtfaywiwOq sEtYbXbE61JBeg4RR5NNUc0vAqIe4FB_q-ZuSRg73Dsbn-1YxUlPIwHORJ_78F28dqjXnjIvcv91JtalhuJO3r4JXODkNkC1 UIxIg=w800-h1062-no

[PARAPTOR]

:wlcm: to The Forum From Western PA

Congrats :hpyclp: on your new Passport!! Enjoy your upgrade !:bdance:

Be Safe and Happy Camping :camping:

[busterbrown]

Welcome and congrats on your new trailer.

Based on your experience, you may already be aware that two, relatively fixed, variables will fight you tooth and nail when you're loaded up and ready to go. First is your TV's payload capacity. Google states 1069 lbs. Not much for the amount of tongue weight your trailer will take up. 550 lbs dry. Will probably go up to 750 to 800 lbs when loaded. Add a WDH of 80 lbs and it gives you just barely 200 lbs of payload for humans and TV cargo. Your Tongue weight will probably exceed the capacity of your receiver hitch too.

Secondly, your mid-size SUV has a very short wheelbase in relation to a 28 foot tow behind. At 115 inches, you may experience dangerous lateral forces on your rig (cross winds and passing semi's) that won't be controllable. Long trailers like long wheelbases. Ask almost every member pulling a sail longer than 25 feet.

Dont get me wrong; I'm a proponant of full size vehicles pulling to their capacity. But when it comes to mid-size vehicles, the capacities are so easily exceeded that dealers should be ashamed of themselves promoting trailers to be "mid-size SUV towable" when in fact they require fullsize or even heavy duty vehicles.

Again, welcome and I hope things work out for you.

[andy-g]

busterbrown, thank you for feedback!

Actually, X5 payload is rated as 750kg (1653lb). That number 1069lb you saw - it is from BMW America, and they do not want to "honour" original german specs.
But there is no doubt - X5 is by far not the ideal tow vehicle for a trailer size of 2520RL. X5 has lots of power, and even payload is enough, but vehicle is too short.
We are planning to get a bigger car in a near feature, but not right now. It is going to be something like F150 Supercrew. Looks long and heavy enough for even bigger trailer then 2520.
For now I should be careful and watch my tongue weight. Maybe I should invest in a trailer-tongue scale...
From my previous experience with X5 towing VERY heavy trailer (~9000lb) across our continent (I drove from Toronto to Vancouver) - I never, not even once encountered sway, even on a very windy flats or in mountains. Maybe trailer was too heavy for a sway :)

[busterbrown]

That's some serious payload for a vehicle of that size. Don't know how the same vehicle can be "up-rated" by nearly 60% from one country to another when the chassis, drivetrain, suspension, and brakes remain unchanged. German engineering at its best I guess. I'm curious to the kind of trailer you towed across Canada. Tongue weight would have been well over 1000 lbs I assume. The downward forces on the rear axle would be tremendous. 9000 lbs is definitely 3/4 ton territory.

A Ford F150 will be your saving grace. Hopefully your upgrade will be sooner rather than later. You'll appreciate the increased safety margins with payload, wheelbase, tires, and brakes, and have much more satisfying towing experience. Good luck and stay safe.

[andy-g]

Car is the same - here and in Europe, but laws are different. For whatever reason BMW US (and BMW Canada) use their own numbers, even though it is the same car.

I was towing this cargo trailer, which was waaaaay overloaded. We were moving from Toronto to Vancouver, and loaded trailer to the roof, so much that there were not even a 1 empty sq ft inside :) It was so much overloaded, that somewhere on Saskatchewan flatlands both axels on the trailer were finally bent so much, that tires started to rub agains trailer walls, and I got two blown tires. Had to replace both axels to continue my trip.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DQj7Zpyh70UzDVfsEX2NDHU2h35zBGiWLdxD1BsNmuM2BJaLxT zvmLrTXracPtuq7DUZGEla6oulpHawNBSbk6YYosa1hRXBl1Oe CHtQ2Hgcc1I2v_ECkcvLHPB5l1Vrhu1VdC1UznoxLWhU-5stGK46bPvqfXPGM-KtLIIv-0GZk1Dg2iJL4rdKQ1j7xjrgw6aZFPMPIoCCuPl3gqNhBqVVJZZ Bopqf5GUrPpQUWf8wNua7bEjHob3Ju1eFV3e0MeoBpxuTQzdlR 0tazP8ZC3XOXzXSGoW5WOIO-iI4_bIyj7mcUvykvkb4FyceqznN6kTRfCEP2xt2oqLJCOc93aE PDMF1nhfYrimzZsWjA0ZhAMe37BGMOEDE40iKky5btN5mKR-8gxomOaC7sCcwB0irBJ0IyBUT_KviqxOfjJek-oB1vuRsnurO2zS-nL7sw9KKtVdQctG2DHnEgCPL8s9c9tnLF_PxcDekp-AfFkVZyAnNH6eESbjid-o7R90Voa5NDFVuT_aM8CmNMoRnAyzjvSTQHjb5gZjzq3gmAiq8 mXy21Ff3KXXwESJHJfVnE-K1BexSPlvS2j4OGRXwtdIrTyrXzeqgDLaRYvW1XuUhkYzNWAjP 0Q=w1880-h826-no

And here is what happens when you don't watch weight of trailer load :)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iv5wmyPsRsepD7t0kSN09XgKnTJ_5LGSCxwmg7iX3T5BdYr7Sc WaMWf19batfw1UxRfgNwbTwNfdMq4R3yXe6OtlIy0ZnHB7FqT2 WmdS4nY0QHhjA4Fqudsoa-dRzybhhl9CUrdFtKYg9ya2jDAnRpbFgjQGhCCqlix-8ri8nOFmmfCWhb7aQRTKXUNkwEkehIflrNb9V2IXLA22VlxXXQ Aj7MvKQYWVUYrkm7jcO-yVesBcDnuDZncu4J-hfj8dQbrra_FhJEJOIoMk9ddI0PcjnybF4dlmz9GoMmJaUZOho sggXEBhahOkq4YmEtKHEYtE1nvqPoabcFtaqmL4NNES-WhkQgZXlO2bShn5vVR3KJraJnWq0uJj30vrp7hg5CNXj9gSv57 S1JUMbq0AykCFW16zMJgO5RVvItNIaG0wuk1h4EsAHycv0E3u5 9C2kbEhrAizzvVQrd7gjXQny8cjk1iCh-AOFAFpbqpjE4tYHcC8OQzbip9hkj2OqkiUwvPcZYLIRssb0GeT xE94cdPuyrhjzSjQwXZsu5JiF31Kd0DTNxwR4AuKIrt0CKOXvw-A_LnDRFu8RUGnvYiWGAi2qPoOFDQigepT8QqI9qyHq2dM0y06D FKfgCIxIxouDw2_HM16VDRORER6Q22CsZZLgHJTb-lE8jlD13DCwPo=w1440-h938-no

[14george]

Welcome to the fourm from W Va

[ctbruce]

Welcome to the forum from Kansas City, MO! Enjoy your new rig! Sounds like adventures are ahead of you.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

[JRTJH]

Welcome to the forum and to Keystone RVing....

I'm "late to the discussions" about towing trailers with a BMW, but would bring one "obvious consideration" to the conversation: There is a significant difference in towing a cargo trailer that's 14' long, loaded to 9000 pounds and towing a travel trailer that's 29' long, that weighs 5000 pounds (empty). The amount of "sidewall" that will catch wind, "push" from passing trucks and "pull" from the air wake of those same trucks is significantly different....

Assuming a cargo trailer is 14' long and 8' tall, there is around 112 SqFt of "sidewal" (not accounting for tongue length, while on a 29.5' travel trailer that's 10.5' tall, that same "sidewall" is closer to 305 SqFt. That's almost 3 times the amount of "sidewall" to catch wind/air pressure which will "push the trailer laterally" causing sway. While you may not have noticed any sway with the cargo trailer, don't think that you'll escape those forces with such a short wheelbase vehicle towing something as large (and square) as a Passport 2520.

I'd urge you to be extremely careful with your rig, weigh it carefully before you start towing and seriously consider a more appropriate tow vehicle as soon as possible.

[cardinal96ss]

2 x JRTJH's comment. Additionally, a 6 in. raised ball will take that side force mentioned and place a roll torque on your TV that you have not experienced in the past. Drive safely.

[andy-g]

Guys,

Thank you very much for your suggestions and words of caution! I will definitely think hard about getting a more proper towing vehicle - sooner than later.

I was hoping to wait until next year - there is a big chance that Ford will introduce a new F150 with diesel engine (I love diesels!)

[66joej]

Welcome to the forum from Radium Hot Springs BC.
Sounds like you had an exciting drive from TO. Hope you understand the advice given is totally objective and for yours and everyones safety. Enjoy your new Passport.

[sourdough]

Not trying to pile on....but, you're talking about towing a 29', 7000 lb trailer with an X5. BIG load for the X5. Your hitch is going to be well over it's stated limit - trailer tongue will probably be in the 850 lb. range. The short wheelbase will be miserable pulling that load in any kind of weather or traffic. One item mentioned that has merit I think is the raised ball. I can see where that would have a negative effect as far as the torque it would place on such a short vehicle.

All things said, go get the new TV as soon as you can. I know the X5 is a nice, mid size SUV, but it's out of it's element with that trailer. Good luck on finding something as soon as possible.

[andy-g]

Guys,

It got me thinking... So, short wheelbase obviously affects/decreases lateral stability.
What about curb weight of the tow vehicle?
What surprised me just now - Ford F150 has curb weight is only 4647lb. In comparison - my BMW X5 is 5192lb, which is heavier by 545lb then F150.
Would increased weight of the tow vehicle positively counteract lateral forces from possible trailer sway?

[andy-g]

you're talking about towing a 29', 7000 lb trailer with an X5. BIG load for the X5.

Actually, you are a bit off with this numbers.
Passport 2520RL is 4930 lb with hitch weight 550 lb.
BMW X5 35d rates as 7200 lb towing capacity with tongue weight 650lb.
Hitch itself is rated as 10,000 lb (but that is irrelevant).

So, other then short length, car is perfectly capable of towing fairly heavy trailers.
I know, that almost everybody here uses trucks to tow, but don't forget, that there is another side of the planet, across the "pond", where people routinely tow very high loads with regular cars. If you ever visited Germany or GB or Italy - you know what I mean.

[ctbruce]

Actually, you are a bit off with this numbers.
Passport 2520RL is 4930 lb with hitch weight 550 lb.
BMW X5 35d rates as 7200 lb towing capacity with tongue weight 650lb.
Hitch itself is rated as 10,000 lb (but that is irrelevant).

So, other then short length, car is perfectly capable of towing fairly heavy trailers.
I know, that almost everybody here uses trucks to tow, but don't forget, that there is another side of the planet, across the "pond", where people routinely tow very high loads with regular cars. If you ever visited Germany or GB or Italy - you know what I mean.
I think what Sourdough was getting at is that stated hitch weight in the brochure is not real world weight. It will climb. You have to add in battery, propane filled, weight distributing hitch, and anything you store in the front compartment. 15% of the total weighed at a CAT scale trailer weight is what your tongue weight will wind up being. If your 5000 lbs trailer gains weight (and it will) you be pushing 800 lbs tongue weight easily. If you maxed it out you will be over 1,000 lbs. You need to weigh it to see where you are at once you load it up.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

[sourdough]

Actually, you are a bit off with this numbers.
Passport 2520RL is 4930 lb with hitch weight 550 lb.
BMW X5 35d rates as 7200 lb towing capacity with tongue weight 650lb.
Hitch itself is rated as 10,000 lb (but that is irrelevant).

So, other then short length, car is perfectly capable of towing fairly heavy trailers.
I know, that almost everybody here uses trucks to tow, but don't forget, that there is another side of the planet, across the "pond", where people routinely tow very high loads with regular cars. If you ever visited Germany or GB or Italy - you know what I mean.


Passport is 4930....EMPTY. Carry capacity is 2070. 4930 + 2070 = 7000 lbs.
Hitch is 550 lb. empty. At loaded weight of 7000 hitch will be approx. 7000 x 12% = 840 lbs.

Here's the link. Go to specifications and tab to 2520RL.
http://www.keystonerv.com/passport/

Where did the X5 come from? Did you bring it with you from Europe or was it purchased in the US/Canada? Does it have the yellow sticker inside the door specifying the payload/carry capacity? That might clear up an earlier question as well.

[andy-g]

Passport is 4930....EMPTY. Carry capacity is 2070. 4930 + 2070 = 7000 lbs.
Hitch is 550 lb. empty. At loaded weight of 7000 hitch will be approx. 7000 x 12% = 840 lbs.

Here's the link. Go to specifications and tab to 2520RL.
http://www.keystonerv.com/passport/

Where did the X5 come from? Did you bring it with you from Europe or was it purchased in the US/Canada? Does it have the yellow sticker inside the door specifying the payload/carry capacity? That might clear up an earlier question as well.

4930 empty. Cargo *capacity* is 2070lb, which is almost 1 tonn (939kg). I am looking at our current trailer (27ft) and I can see about 100-150kg of stuff == 330 lb.
Plus 43 gals of water = 360 lb.
Plus 2x25lb = 50 lb (propane).
All cargo is about 750 lb, ok, let it be 1000lb.
Total loaded trailer would be less then 6000 lb with tongue weight close to 650 lb.

I am not saying it would be impossible to load it up so much that it will be over the car's limit. Of course it is possible. But we never loaded too much into our current trailer, and not going to with the new one.

Regarding the BMW - manufacturer specifies towing capacity of this car with BMW hitch installed. Fact is, that BMW America hitch (the only one available from BMW USA) has lowly 6000lb rating, and thus, BMW rates whole car as 6000lb. In USA and Canada.
In Europe this car is available with another optional hitch, rated as 7700 lb (sorry, my mistake - I mentioned 7200 before, while it is actually 7700lb).
7700 lb is the limit this car is capable.
I did install a hitch, matching this higher rating, not the standard one from BMW USA.

Sorry for a long explanation, just trying to show that I am very well aware of capacities and limitations of my car+trailer combination.

[sourdough]

Good luck. Your mind's made up so hoping you have happy, uneventful, travels. I will say that I've loaded a lot of trailers, tents, pop ups etc. and I don't believe I've ever carried just 350 lbs. to even go tent camping. In RVs we carry much more.

[Tbos]

Welcome to the forum from Southern MD. There's been a lot of good advice about your TV. Hope it goes well for you. That BMW should give you a nice trade when you want to move up to the truck. Enjoy your new TT.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cjm]

Welcome !!

We are in the lower mainland as well... and had a trailmanor before our current Keystone.

Enjoy the forum - there is a wealth of info here!

Cameron

[andy-g]

Thank you everybody for your welcoming words!
I finally got my 2520RLWE! So far loving it! Waaaay better then my old Trailmanor 2720SL :)
http://i.imgur.com/8rNQP1M.jpg

[15hideout27rbwe]

Howdy! Just joined today, but also from the Vancouver area.

[ctbruce]

Enjoy your new rig, Andy.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ