Water Heater Issues

[Imaybail]

Got a new to me 2004 Springdale with a Suburban water heater. I believe it to be the SW6PER model, as it has no gas cock, pilot light, and it has the electric element in addition to the propane system.
Have filled the tank and used it with propane, but now I need to drain it because the weather is getting down in the 20's for a few days.
When I opened the outside cover to pull the anode rod/drain plug, I noticed a flame at the beginning of the mixture tube. It was a weak flame with some soot buildup around the opening of the mixture tube and beginning to form on the cover.
How do I turn this off? I want to run the furnace so I can't turn off the propane.
I am wondering if I have a failure of a solenoid valve that is supposed to turn off the gas when the heater is switched off.

Any ideas?:confused:

[scott24]

Sounds like the gas valve isn't fully closing.

[JRTJH]

You can download the manual for your water heater here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1068393/Suburban-Sw6p.html?page=7#manual

I'd guess that if it's the original water heater, you possibly could have a leaking gas valve. Additionally, if you just turned it off and immediately saw the "diminishing flame" you might have just witnessed the remaining propane in the gas control assembly "burning off"...

I'd make sure the selector valve is turned to OFF, let the pilot flame extinguish, then wait a couple minutes, relight the pilot and monitor the flame when you turn the gas valve off. If it slowly burns out, I'd say it's working properly. To be sure, wait a couple minutes and recheck to see if you smell propane. If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

[chuckster57]

You may very well have a spider web in the burn tube.

[Imaybail]

I have that manual. It's generic for four different models in that family. No diagrams specific to my model though.
Regarding spider webs, obstructions, the flame is right outside the orifice where there is a gap in the tube to mix air. There appear to be two solenoid valves upstream of the orifice. Tapping on them didn't seem to have any effect.

[Imaybail]

You can download the manual for your water heater here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1068393/Suburban-Sw6p.html?page=7#manual

I'd guess that if it's the original water heater, you possibly could have a leaking gas valve. Additionally, if you just turned it off and immediately saw the "diminishing flame" you might have just witnessed the remaining propane in the gas control assembly "burning off"...

I'd make sure the selector valve is turned to OFF, let the pilot flame extinguish, then wait a couple minutes, relight the pilot and monitor the flame when you turn the gas valve off. If it slowly burns out, I'd say it's working properly. To be sure, wait a couple minutes and recheck to see if you smell propane. If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

There is no selector valve on this model. Only the inside switch to turn on the gas and light the heater. My expectations were that when the inside switch was in the off position the gas would be turned off. I don't believe there is supposed to be a flame maintained at the orifice where the mixture tube begins. The electric lighter electrode is supposed to let the gas valve know when the pilot light goes out so it can turn off the gas. So I think it's a failure of either the electrode or the gas valve.

[Thundershorts]

From what you described, a plunger in your gas valve is not seated properly, or has some debris in it and is passing gas. You can try disconnecting the wires from the solenoid, but it probably won't work. The only other thing to try, is to blow out the flame and turn the water heater on and then disconnect the wire from the solenoid. My advise is to do this with the water heater door open and another person at the switch in the camper. If this doesn't work, then I would be shutting off the propane and replace the gas valve or tank. Be careful it is gas.

[Imaybail]

Did a little troubleshooting today. Checked ohms on the coils, and found 39 ohms on the one closest to the tank and 49 on the other one. I think some trash must be in one of the seats and not fully closing. I am assuming they close with spring pressure only.
Checked around for a replacement valve and they are readily available with prices all over the place from $35 to over $100.
Has anyone replaced one? I will probably try to replace it myself.
Here's a photo showing where I have the flame that remains after the heater is turned off.

[chuckster57]

I have done a few, what questions do you have?

[Imaybail]

It looks pretty easy. Turn off gas and electric, remove burner tube, then electrical connections, and remove propane supply line and tube that goes to the orifice. Anything I am missing? Tedlon tape or pipe dope on threads?

[chuckster57]

Gas line should be a flare fitting, so no tape or dope, the elbow could use some dope, just make sure it's for gas. Check for leak using leak detect or soapy water.

[Imaybail]

Found a valve locally for a fair price so I replaced it today along with the anode rod.

Now it works as designed. Also checked the element for continuity and for presence of 120 volts coming from the switch.

Also ran the electric systems (air, refer, charger, etc)with my generator and it carried the load well without even a grunt.

[chuckster57]

Good deal!!!

I see you used teflon tape, it is rated for LP gas? I've seen yellow for gas lines but not white. I use Rectors #5 by the jug.

[Javi]

As a note... white Teflon tape is illegal in many states for natural gas/propane fittings... yellow or grey should be used. I personally use the grey for everything just to keep it simple.

Javi

[PARAPTOR]

Imaybail, Thanks for your illustrations and followup. This is how we learn from each other and pictures really help!!!!

Good Job !!!!! Next

[sourdough]

I have all kinds of Teflon tape and dope for various "projects" as they come up. All are white. They say PTFE on them but that's about it. Some are in red containers, blue containers and white containers. I will say that most are several? years old.

Here is a link that talks about taping/doping pipes. It implies that the yellow was developed for places that had set regulations for a thicker Teflon tape. I wonder if where we are they just don't have those regulations so we don't have it. The last time in the hardware store I could find no difference in any of the tapes (color wise), I asked the guy and he said "they all will work for gas"? Since we are out of a building inspector at the moment I won't be able to ask him but I'm wondering if the type of tape is a federal/state/local regulation kind of thing?

http://allthumbsdiy.com/plumbing/when-to-use-ptfe-teflon-yellow-or-white-tapes-or-pipe-dope

[Imaybail]

Good deal!!!

I see you used teflon tape, it is rated for LP gas? I've seen yellow for gas lines but not white. I use Rectors #5 by the jug.

As a note... white Teflon tape is illegal in many states for natural gas/propane fittings... yellow or grey should be used. I personally use the grey for everything just to keep it simple.

Javi

Ummm, didn't/don't know. :facepalm: In my ignorance I just used what I had. I did check for leaks though. If you think it will cause a problem, I can go back and change it. I do have some pipe dope rated for natural gas.

[Javi]

The problem with the white is that as thin as it is when wrapped on the first two or three threads it will tear and sluff off into the tube/pipe and block the orifice.

Javi

[sourdough]

As a note... white Teflon tape is illegal in many states for natural gas/propane fittings... yellow or grey should be used. I personally use the grey for everything just to keep it simple.

Javi

I think Javi is probably right. I did a quick scan of TX regs and could find no reference to the sealant to be used.....but I only spent about 10 minutes. I'm still wondering if it doesn't vary state to state, county to county, city to city? That said, I guess I'll be looking for some gray Teflon tape to throw in the box:confused:

[Thundershorts]

Teflon tape used for gas is suppose to be CSA, AGA or UL certified, I am a gas fitter and work on residential gas equipment for a living. I use teflon tape on dissimilar metals and the colour is either orange or yellow, never white, as it is thinner. Pipe dope is ok, but I only use it on steel pipe.

[sourdough]

Thanks folks. I learned something today and that's why I love this site and the contributors. Have a great evening and super weekend!!

[66joej]

The yellow tape is the sealant of choice up here in Canada for most Plumbers and Gasfitters. Because of it's properties. What that is I have no clue.

[chuckster57]

I don't like having to think about which direction to wind the tape, just brush and go with the goop. Maybe they call it dope because even a "dope" can put it on the right direction :facepalm:

[sourdough]

I don't like having to think about which direction to wind the tape, just brush and go with the goop. Maybe they call it dope because even a "dope" can put it on the right direction :facepalm:


I agree. I've not looked at anything that tells you what direction you need to wind the tape (it may have been in the post?) but I always wind it in the direction that the nut? will turn into the threads; so it winds in the direction of the spirals and not trying to unwind it....if that makes any sense. I used to use the dope for everything but seemed like I was always messing with it and ruining a shirt or something..........

[Thundershorts]

I agree. I've not looked at anything that tells you what direction you need to wind the tape (it may have been in the post?) but I always wind it in the direction that the nut? will turn into the threads; so it winds in the direction of the spirals and not trying to unwind it....if that makes any sense. I used to use the dope for everything but seemed like I was always messing with it and ruining a shirt or something..........

That's the way I learned how to put on teflon tape. Although every time I use it, I have to think about whether or not I'm putting it on the right way. A gas fitter told me once, hold the nipple or fitting in your left hand, with the threads pointing to your right, and wind the tape over the top of the threads, away from you, and back under the threads toward you. It's easier to demonstrate than trying to explain.

[Javi]

That's the way I learned how to put on teflon tape. Although every time I use it, I have to think about whether or not I'm putting it on the right way. A gas fitter told me once, hold the nipple or fitting in your left hand, with the threads pointing to your right, and wind the tape over the top of the threads, away from you, and back under the threads toward you. It's easier to demonstrate than trying to explain.
Natural for a lefty. [emoji6]

Javi