Cougar and an F250

[TomD1]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone out there tows a Cougar with an F-250. I have ordered an F-250 gasser and am looking an a Cougar 336 BHS the GVWR is 12,235 and the pin weight of 1835. everything appears to be within limits, I know it depends how it is loaded, but I am not new to weight and balance.

[Javi]

I towed my cougar 333 MKS with a 2012 F-250 diesel one trip and then went and bought a new dually. The 333 was just too much weight for the F-250, much more pleasant with the dually.

Javi

[JRTJH]

A lot depends on your F250 model. If you're looking at a single cab, 8' bed XL model, it will have about double the payload of a crew cab, 8' bed Platinum model. Those options really REALLY add up in weight causing significant payload reductions.

So, you have to make a decision on whether you want to be "legal" or make the argument of "it's really the same as an F350."

Depending on the rear end you get (3.73 or 4.30) you may or may not be over your GCWR. If you consider that your F250 will be "at GVW" with the trailer, then your GCWR of 19500 minus the truck's 10000, leaves you with a maximum trailer weight of 9500, not nearly enough to tow a trailer with a GVW of 12,235. With the 4.30 gearing, the GCWR increases to 28,700 and eliminates the problem of "too much trailer to tow" but does not address the pin weight which is going to be over the truck's payload, no matter how you cut it....

As I said, the dilemma boils down to whether you want to be 'legal" or make the argument of "it's really the same as....." Up to you which way you go.

As an example, I tow with a 2015 F250 Lariat and have a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS. GVW of 10,000 pounds and a empty pin weight of 1230. I'm at my truck's GVW when we tow. The trailer you're considering would put my truck significantly over the payload, possibly even over the payload of an F350.

[rhagfo]

I agree with JRTJH, if you want to stay with in your GVWR.
First get your F250 weighed ready to tow, with full fuel and family, then we can tell you if you will be good.
I will I pull a 5er as big as what you are looking at with our 2001 Ram, I exceed the anemic 8,800# GVWR. That said I am still well within the rear GAWR, and FAR within the Optional tire weight rating.

Doing this is your choice, it just works well for me.

It is not a big 5er just over 12,000# GVWR.

Specs for 336BHS
Shipping Weight 10,325
Carrying Capacity 1,910
GVWR 12,235
Hitch 1835
Length 38' 0"
Height 12' 6"

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_224428_0_06369b3ae413eeea9cd51ddbb6ac04ff.jpg

[mets721]

I bought a 327RES last year. I had a 2014 250 Lariat, SuperCrew, 6.5 bed, gasser. Towing it home, I thought it was fine. No issues stopping, starting, etc. On our first trip with it packed up and just my wife and I (the kids stayed home), I noticed a difference. It was definitely WORKING to start off on any sort of incline, it wasn't horrible, but I could tell the truck was working hard to get moving. I should mention that we don't pack heavy. Just the basics, clothes, food, pots, pans, etc. No water. Stopping was not an issue, the truck has good brakes and you have trailer brakes too.

I decided to upgrade to a 350 diesel because I was worried about putting too much stress on the truck. I can tell you that it made a huge difference. It's like the trailer isn't even there. The engine brake is also a nice feature to help save brakes. It nice to not worry about "am I putting too much stress on the truck?", "is the engine going to blow?", etc. Plus with the added weight capability I don't have to worry about what I pack to stay within my limits.

[gearhead]

I think a visit to your Ford dealer is in order. The price difference between a F250 and a F350 isn't worth not getting a 350. They should have no issue with you placing a new order. They can sell the 250 when it gets to them.
My ex-F350 diesel pulled my ex-Cougar XLite very well. Much better than my ex GMC2500 6.0 gasser. Screaming uphill floorboarded and riding the brakes downhill got old very quick. The diesel with an exhaust brake is so sweet.
If after doing the math you think you may be pushing the payload capacity you should consider a dually. The F350 SRW has a relatively low payload from my experience. If you don't want a Ford dually, the Ram in my signature has 4018# payload capacity.

[Cabindweller]

I purchased a 336BHS last March. My Ram 3500 SRW (see more in my sig) handles it with ease. The payload for my truck is 3950. The truck and camper seem to be a very nice pair when it comes to weight vs. capacity. I agree with the above posts... I would see if you could switch your order to a 350. The cost difference is negligible. Good luck!

[CaptnJohn]

I pulled my Cougar 303 RLS with an F250 diesel. The published pin is 1605. Not a problem for thousands of miles. The concern was the loaded pin was around 2220 which with the wife and I in the truck put us over payload. Traded for a 2016 F350 SRW Lariat Ultimate 4x4 6.7. Payload approaches 3500# which gives some cushion for the upgrade. To my wife traveling light means only 3 cast iron pots/pans.

[TomD1]

Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.

[notanlines]

Tom, even without all the weight police coming on heavy.....you have to.

[larry337]

Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.
Just curious why not? Have you driven one? There's very little difference in ride and you pick up 1500lbs of payload. You haven't mentioned the rear axle. With a gasser you're definitely gonna want the 4.30. I believe you'll be sorry if you don't. I have a Cougar 337FLS and IMHO it's 1 ton territory, gas or diesel.

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[TomD1]

Just curious why not? Have you driven one? There's very little difference in ride and you pick up 1500lbs of payload. You haven't mentioned the rear axle. With a gasser you're definitely gonna want the 4.30. I believe you'll be sorry if you don't. I have a Cougar 337FLS and IMHO it's 1 ton territory, gas or diesel.

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Yes I am getting the 4.30.

[JRTJH]

If you're ordering a 2017 F250 with a 6.2l gas engine, you're getting the "light duty transmission" as well. The original "strong" transmission is only available in the F250 with diesel engine. It is standard on all F350 gas and diesel models. That, to me, indicates that the "light duty transmission" apparently isn't strong enough to do the work of the increased torque of the diesel or in the gas F350 loads. Now, since the F250 and F350 are essentially the same truck, that tells me that the transmission in the F250 gas truck isn't as strong as the transmission in the F350, even though they are "supposedly rated to tow the same loads.... Sounds like "almost doublespeak" from Ford on that one .... :ermm:

[Ken / Claudia]

I may be wrong here but, just going by what I read on this forum after a few years. This story ends a year or two from now. With a purchase of a f350. And someone gets a good deal on a slightly used f250.

[Javi]

I may be wrong here but, just going by what I read on this forum after a few years. This story ends a year or two from now. With a purchase of a f350. And someone gets a good deal on a slightly used f250.
I reckon the only way to learn it... is to live it. [emoji6]

Javi

[rhagfo]

Thanks for all the input, there is a lot to consider. The majority of the camping will be just the wife and myself, occasionally a short trip with the grandkids. (They don't weigh much.) We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.

:facepalm:

If you are buying new diffidently go with the F350, a SRW will be more than enough for that 5er.

Now the hard part, if you are afraid of/or just don't want a diesel I would strongly suggest 4.10 or 4.30 gears behind the 6.2 for a more enjoyable tow experience. If you chose the 3.73 you will likely be facing a 12,000# to 13,000# towing capacity.

If you don't dislike or fear a diesel I would strongly suggest, as they make for a more relaxing towing experience. Think about this I tow/carry a 5er slightly shorter, but heaver than what you are looking at, I do it with a 16 year old diesel with 298,000 miles that is likely putting out about 270 hp and 610# of torque. I move that load with ease and have 3.55 rear gears.

This is a big purchase the cost difference between a F250 and a F350 SRW is very small in the big picture.
Many with say the F250 and F350 SRW are the same, with maybe the F250 MAYBE having softer springs. That said the one thing you really get is a VIN and Payload sticker that states that your TV is good for another 1,500# or more.

[sourdough]

I tried :( to not respond to this thread, but......

An RV in excess of 12k needs to be pulled by a diesel...and I don't own one. It's just common sense.

To buy a new 250 gasser to pull a 12, 3xx lb trailer is crazy to me. My truck is just as powerful as the new 250 being ordered. I pull 10k and would NEVER want more behind her. Get what you need up front! Get the 350 and move on!!

[larry337]

The motor will be okay. It's only 12 grand. I'll bet it pulls similar to your 10 grand. The F350 is rated for 16 and change with a 6.2 and 4.30. I know a farmer with one who goes way past that with a goose neck loaded with hay bales or equipment. Me personally, no. I would think most guys wouldn't enjoy it. You'd have to lock out higher gears at times. Lot more revs, more shifting. But some people wouldn't care to save 8 grand up front. I'm not one of them. Can't say I haven't thought about it though. These modern diesels are incredible motors but when they break they produce incredible repair bills too. It's kinda scary to own one after the warranty runs out. Sort of a game of hot potato. Matter of fact mines never given me a problem but it's 6 years with 93,000 and I just ordered a new 17. But that's me. Your mileage may vary.

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[gearhead]

Yeah, I don't understand the not wanting a F350. We're talking F350 Single Rear Wheel vs. F250. Won't be able to tell the difference without the badge on the fender. We're talking oranges vs. tangerines, not apples and oranges.

[JRTJH]

.... We're talking oranges vs. tangerines, not apples and oranges.

Probably closer to tangelos vs tangerines or seeded vs seedless oranges ???

Just don't forget that Ford "slipped in" that "downgraded transmission" in the 2017 F250 gas truck.....:facepalm:

[gearhead]

I reckon the only way to learn it... is to live it. [emoji6]

Javi
Ain't that the truth!
I'm on truck #3 in 4 years.

[rhagfo]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone out there tows a Cougar with an F-250. I have ordered an F-250 gasser and am looking an a Cougar 336 BHS the GVWR is 12,235 and the pin weight of 1835. everything appears to be within limits, I know it depends how it is loaded, but I am not new to weight and balance.

Well I hope you have read all the post.
Yes the gas will move that 5er, it will just do it best with the 4.30 (good choice) and will need to rev on the hills. Just do the right thing out of the box and get the F350 SRW.

Hope you enjoy towing heavy with you new TV.

[larry337]

Probably closer to tangelos vs tangerines or seeded vs seedless oranges ???

Just don't forget that Ford "slipped in" that "downgraded transmission" in the 2017 F250 gas truck.....:facepalm:
John the transmission you're referring to is a beefed up version of the very reliable 6r80. Ford engineers decided the f250 doesn't need the massive 6r140 that is designed to handle 1400 lbs/ft of torque. By using a lighter transmission and deeper first gears overall first impressions have been good. Better zip and fuel economy. It should be a very reliable transmission if used within the designed specs. I personally would still rather have the F350 in this case.

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[lacofdfireman]

Also remember the difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton SRW is literally 1 leaf spring in the rear. Same brakes, same trans same everything except that 1 leaf spring. So throw a set of airbags on your 3/4 ton and don't worry about it. Now if your not comfortable still then you need a dually. You'll never feel as stabile in a SRW as you will in a DRW.


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[larry337]

Also remember the difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton SRW is literally 1 leaf spring in the rear. Same brakes, same trans same everything except that 1 leaf spring. So throw a set of airbags on your 3/4 ton and don't worry about it. Now if your not comfortable still then you need a dually. You'll never feel as stabile in a SRW as you will in a DRW.


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This is simply not true. The 2017 Super Duty has been completely redesigned. Not only does the F 250 have a different transmission, depending upon whether the tow package is ordered it has a completely different rear axle too. The base F 250 comes with a Sterling rear axle. The F 350 comes with a Dana rear axle. If you order the HD tow package on the F 250 you will get the Dana.

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[JRTJH]

Not to argue, I can't (and am not trying to) say that the F250 isn't capable. Rather my point is that the transmission that has been available from 2011 through 2016 is not being installed in the gas models of the 2017 F250. Whether that "new" transmission will work well or not remains to be seen, after owners start using the transmission "at the upper limits of its capacity". With the old transmission, a gas truck never even came close to working the transmission at its limits......

To explain what I'm trying to convey more fully,

I'm certainly no transmission engineer, but from my understanding of transmissions, the 61r80 has a torque converter/internals rated at 800 ft pounds. The 61R140 has a torque converter/internals rated at 1400 ft pounds. Apparently the torque converters in both transmissions use a ratio of 1:1.8 which means (I think) that the torque of the engine is actually "multiplied by 1.8" by the torque converter. So, the torque produced by the 6.2l engine (430@3800 RPM) when multiplied by 1.8 would apply 774 ft pounds of torque to the transmission internals rated at 800 ft pounds max.

My point is that the F350 transmission is rated at 1400 ft pounds, almost twice as "heavy" as the new F250 transmission. The "new G transmission may well "handle all that the 6.2l engine can produce in stock form". But it won't be amenable to adding a power chip without putting the transmission "over its rated input torque". That's a significant "downgrade" from the transmission that's standard in the 2011-2016 models. In stock form, the 61R80 transmission in the F250 is able to take the engine's torque, but it can't be upgraded. In the F350, that's not the situation as the transmission is rated at almost two times the input torque.

As for the lower first gear, it's true that the transmission will "start the pull" better than the 61R140's numerically different gearing, but with the 4.30 rear axles, all the "engineers" on the Ford forums are saying that it's a "wash" and the first gear ratio in the "new G transmission" isn't necessary.

ADDED: My concern, for what it's worth, for the OP's benefit, is that he is planning to use his truck "AT THE UPPER LIMIT" of its specifications with a 12,300 pound trailer in tow. So, when towing in that fashion, he's going to be "maxing out" the transmission in an F250 while with the F350, he's got "oodles of capacity" left in reserve.

Like Larry337, I'd opt for an F350 with that trailer in my plans. Gone are the days of using the argument: "It's the same as an F350. Starting with 2017, they are "similar but very different" trucks......

[larry337]

Not to argue, I can't (and am not trying to) say that the F250 isn't capable. Rather my point is that the transmission that has been available from 2011 through 2016 is not being installed in the gas models of the 2017 F250. Whether that "new" transmission will work well or not remains to be seen, after owners start using the transmission "at the upper limits of its capacity". With the old transmission, a gas truck never even came close to working the transmission at its limits......

To explain what I'm trying to convey more fully,

I'm certainly no transmission engineer, but from my understanding of transmissions, the 61r80 has a torque converter/internals rated at 800 ft pounds. The 61R140 has a torque converter/internals rated at 1400 ft pounds. Apparently the torque converters in both transmissions use a ratio of 1:1.8 which means (I think) that the torque of the engine is actually "multiplied by 1.8" by the torque converter. So, the torque produced by the 6.2l engine (430@3800 RPM) when multiplied by 1.8 would apply 774 ft pounds of torque to the transmission internals rated at 800 ft pounds max.

My point is that the F350 transmission is rated at 1400 ft pounds, almost twice as "heavy" as the new F250 transmission. The "new G transmission may well "handle all that the 6.2l engine can produce in stock form". But it won't be amenable to adding a power chip without putting the transmission "over its rated input torque". That's a significant "downgrade" from the transmission that's standard in the 2011-2016 models. In stock form, the 61R80 transmission in the F250 is able to take the engine's torque, but it can't be upgraded. In the F350, that's not the situation as the transmission is rated at almost two times the input torque.

As for the lower first gear, it's true that the transmission will "start the pull" better than the 61R140's numerically different gearing, but with the 4.30 rear axles, all the "engineers" on the Ford forums are saying that it's a "wash" and the first gear ratio in the "new G transmission" isn't necessary.
I mean this with the utmost respect, you are the last person on this board I care to argue with lol. I was merely pointing out the new transmission may have a place in the lineup. And I also said I would go with the F350. :) [emoji482]

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[lacofdfireman]

This is simply not true. The 2017 Super Duty has been completely redesigned. Not only does the F 250 have a different transmission, depending upon whether the tow package is ordered it has a completely different rear axle too. The base F 250 comes with a Sterling rear axle. The F 350 comes with a Dana rear axle. If you order the HD tow package on the F 250 you will get the Dana.

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I stand corrected if I'm wrong but when I bought my 07 Duramax 3/4 ton they told me the only difference between a 3/4 and a 1 ton was literally 1 leaf spring. Same engine same trans same gearing unless special ordered by the customer or dealer. Maybe it's different in a brand new truck. Guess I was speaking for older vehicles. But then again maybe the salesman didn't know what he was talking about either. Love my 07 Duramax. Plenty of power to pull anything I'd want to pull.

[larry337]

I stand corrected if I'm wrong but when I bought my 07 Duramax 3/4 ton they told me the only difference between a 3/4 and a 1 ton was literally 1 leaf spring. Same engine same trans same gearing unless special ordered by the customer or dealer. Maybe it's different in a brand new truck. Guess I was speaking for older vehicles. But then again maybe the salesman didn't know what he was talking about either. Love my 07 Duramax. Plenty of power to pull anything I'd want to pull.
Yes in a lot of cases you would be right. [emoji106]

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[JRTJH]

I mean this with the utmost respect, you are the last person on this board I care to argue with lol. I was merely pointing out the new transmission may have a place in the lineup. And I also said I would go with the F350. :) [emoji482]

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No argument from me... I agree with you, it looks like Ford is "downgrading" the F250 to a "lighter duty, fill the niche SuperDuty"... It reminds me of the late 70's/early 80's when Ford introduced the "F150 HD" which was a "heavier than normal" F150 with a GVW between the F150 "half ton" and the F250 "3/4 ton".
From what I read on the internet (gotta be the truth, eh?) Ford is marketing the F150 as a "crossover truck" suitable for soccer moms, commuting and occasional towing/truck duties. The SuperDuty line is the "use it all the time like a truck" lineup. From what I'm reading, Ford is "separating out" the F250 as the "lower end, cheaper to buy" segment, so downgrading the transmission to "fill the gap" in performance, weight and cost makes sense, especially for "light duty use".

If I remember correctly, the CAFE fuel mileage requirements will include the SuperDuty trucks (I think next year) so Ford can "gain a little Fleet MPG" with the transmission change, increase "out of the gate" performance and lower cost with the new transmission. It's a "win/win" for those who don't use the truck at full capacity, only tow occasionally or use the truck for transportation more than for towing/hauling.

One thing that will change, and you made that comment a few posts back, is that the F250 and the F350 are now "arguably" not the same truck with a different badge, at least in the "gas engine models'...

[Bingo 57]

Don't know all the tec stuff, but I'm pulling an 2016 Cougar XLITE with a 08 F-250 SD, V-10 gasser. The only modification I'ed done to the truck is I installed a set of "Tembrins" right after I got the truck in 07 yes I said 07, the unit was on the market early. I did this for pulling a 20 foot stock trailer. The unit came equipped with the trailer package. I love the trainee in the rig, in trailer mode the downshifting down hill is fantastic. I'm still averaging 11.5 MPG with the XLITE. With the stock trailer loaded I was getting 10.3 MPG. Millage isn't the best but the unit was paid for.
JB

[Stircrazy]

We still have more time to look for an RV. I would rather not go the 350 route unless I absolutely have to.

Just question, why? I bought the 330 which is a tad lighter than the 336 but the pin weight loaded still came in 500 lbs over the posted one. with the wife kids dog in the truck we were 300 lbs over the gvw so we traded in on a 350 diesel.

the 250 and 350 are pretty much the exact same truck so why don't you want to go the 350 route and then you'll be able to tow the trailer you want instead of settling for another?

especially if you are buying a new truck anyways

Steve

[Outback 325BH]

Not to throw another wrench into this, but...

The drivetrain doesn't care about payload. As long as you aren't going past GCWR, the transmission is irrelevant.

Rear springs and differential housing is what matters with regard to payload. The axles contained within and the ring/pinion don't care about payload because no weight is placed on them. Same with the transmission.

Total weight being moved however does matter... which is where GCWR comes into play.

I know all numbers should be respected, however I am trying to address the payload-vs-transmission argument which is silly.


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[JRTJH]

Not to throw another wrench into this, but...

... As long as you aren't going past GCWR, the transmission is irrelevant...

Total weight being moved however does matter... which is where GCWR comes into play.

I know all numbers should be respected, however I am trying to address the payload-vs-transmission argument which is silly.

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First of all, if you'd taken the time to "do the numbers" you'd see that the F250 gas truck GCWR is 19,500. With the truck "filled with family" it'll be at GVW (10,000) and very likely will be overloaded beyond the GVW. And, with that trailer in tow at GVW (12,300) that adds up to 22,300 pounds. So, the GCWR does come into play as you stated and it matters.....

[Outback 325BH]

First of all, if you'd taken the time to "do the numbers" you'd see that the F250 gas truck GCWR is 19,500. With the truck "filled with family" it'll be at GVW (10,000) and very likely will be overloaded beyond the GVW. And, with that trailer in tow at GVW (12,300) that adds up to 22,300 pounds. So, the GCWR does come into play as you stated and it matters.....



Read what you highlighted in my post and you will see what I was talking about.

Yes, overall GCWR would factor everything. Payload alone? No, not everything matters regarding payload.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with and why the anger? Clearly you are upset about something...


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[larry337]

Well, without rereading the entire thread, I'm not anyone was relating payload specifically to the transmission. At least not intentionally. All most of us are saying is that he will be maxed in one or two numbers with that trailer. Maybe it can be done with the F250 but if buying new why not and F350? That's it in a nutshell.

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[sourdough]

Not to throw another wrench into this, but...

The drivetrain doesn't care about payload. As long as you aren't going past GCWR, the transmission is irrelevant.

Rear springs and differential housing is what matters with regard to payload. The axles contained within and the ring/pinion don't care about payload because no weight is placed on them. Same with the transmission.

Total weight being moved however does matter... which is where GCWR comes into play.

I know all numbers should be respected, however I am trying to address the payload-vs-transmission argument which is silly.

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say. To say that payload has no bearing on the transmission is just wrong. Same goes for the ring and pinion, torque converter, U joints etc. Every time you hit the accelerator with 10,000lbs behind the truck EVERY one of the components experiences a tremendous amount of increased stress. A light duty tranny rated for say 15000 lbs. but always pulling an unloaded truck may last forever. The same tranny/drivetrain yanking 15k every time it tries to take off or speed up may go belly up in a short time (just think of the amount of torque/pressure it takes to remove a bolt tightened to 100 ft lbs of torque vs 5 - it's exactly the same when trying to get 15k moving vs 5k). I know this from experience and repeated conversations with Ford service technicians when I had to have my transmission replaced 3 times before 36,000 miles (the old Ford E4OD).

[kfxgreenie]

This thread would be rendered useless if the OP just looked at a capable 3/4 Ton Gasser. :D:D:D:D:D

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2017_ram_2500_towing_charts.pdf

[336]

I'm running 2016 cougar 336 behind a 2013 duramax CC short bed. Has adaquate payload and plenty of truck for the trailer. Hardly know it's there. +1 for get the diesel. -1 for you need more truck.

[502monte]

Also towing 2017 cougar 336 with a 2007 chevy D/A ccsb

[TomD1]

No matter the outcome of the lively discussions here I will have to walk away with the 250 I ordered a specific truck so it is what it is. I ordered it with the camper package which means it has the same rear springs as a Std. 350. As far as weight in the truck, it is just the wife and I. I have estimated what I will be carrying and calculated it 7 ways to Sunday, at this point I don't believe I will be over the GCWR. It will probably be the middle of the summer before I get the RV. Right now the wife and I like the looks of the 336BHS we are going to a RV show in a couple of weeks and we may find something we like that is a little lighter. I want to thank everyone for their input it is a great mixture of opinion and fact which is what is needed, I just wish I had found this forum a couple of months ago. At the end of the day I am confident I will be towing safely. Again thanks for the discussions.
Happy Camping

[gearhead]

They're making you take the truck? Ehhh I don't know about that.

[sourdough]

No matter the outcome of the lively discussions here I will have to walk away with the 250 I ordered a specific truck so it is what it is. I ordered it with the camper package which means it has the same rear springs as a Std. 350. As far as weight in the truck, it is just the wife and I. I have estimated what I will be carrying and calculated it 7 ways to Sunday, at this point I don't believe I will be over the GCWR. It will probably be the middle of the summer before I get the RV. Right now the wife and I like the looks of the 336BHS we are going to a RV show in a couple of weeks and we may find something we like that is a little lighter. I want to thank everyone for their input it is a great mixture of opinion and fact which is what is needed, I just wish I had found this forum a couple of months ago. At the end of the day I am confident I will be towing safely. Again thanks for the discussions.
Happy Camping

You might want to talk to the dealership management. I've never encountered a situation with an ordered vehicle where I was just stuck with it before it ever got there. In fact, in every case, I had the option of rejecting it upon inspection when it arrived.

[MattHelm21]

Everything everyone else said and this. Most dealerships shouldn't have any problem if you are opting for a similar or (even slightly) more expensive vehicle like the 1 ton. Additionally, moving an f250 should be no trouble for them even if it was special order and they have to trade with another dealer. It's done all the time. Last, many people have to back completely out of special vehicle orders all the time. Times are tough. Just sayin' you have options.

[JRTJH]

My current F250 is a "rejected special order". The gentleman that ordered it special ordered exactly what he "thought" he wanted. When the truck came in, he realized that caribou is brown, he thought it was bronze fire (the copper color). He refused the truck, they reordered another one and put it on the lot for sale. It sat about 2 weeks and I came along, the rest is "history"....

So, I've never "refused a special order truck" but I'm driving a "refusal" and happy to be doing so.

As for the F250/F350 "same or different" discussion. As for the size, both are the same body, as for ride, both use the same "main rear spring assembly", so the ride is the same until you get enough load in the bed to contact the overload springs, then the F350 is a bit rougher and that is easily solved with air bags, so the ride is the essentially the same.

There's no "reason to fear" an F350, if you go to the dealer and test drive both models, you very likely won't be able to tell which is which until you look at the badging on the front fender.

[notanlines]

We have a Chevy salesman in our RV park and he just snickered when I passed on your story. His exact quote was "Forget that s--t. Just tell them you want to order a 350 instead. It happens all the time." I think all the previous advice is sound. Just talk to management and I'll bet you end up okay.

[DAN d]

2016 xlite 06 2500 hd 8.1 welcome to the forum :wlcm:

[larry337]

Tom first of all congrats on your new truck! However, if you have any hesitation at all now is the time to speak up. I spent nearly 20 years in the car business and they will order you another truck and put yours on the lot, it's no big deal. If you get any resistance at all PM me and I'll offer all the help I can.

It's appears the F250 will be up to the task of a 336. Cgvwr is 22000. Max tow is 15000. I'm guessing your payload to be roughly 28-2900 lbs. For reference my 337 has a brochure pin weight of 2200 lbs. With just my wife and my dog, hitch, some firewood, full water, loaded to camp, I put around 3300 lbs on my truck. So you can see you will be right at 10,000 lbs. Your loaded trailer is gonna weigh 12-12500 so your good there with max tow being 15000. I'm guessing you will be around 20-21000 so you should also be under on CGVWR. So I agree with you that you'll be able to do this with an f250. What you would gain with the F350 is the bigger transmission, the Dana rear axle, 1500 lbs of payload, 1000 lbs more CGVWR, and 700 lbs of max tow.

So I'll back you up and say you'll be legal and safe but you will be right at max on payload and close on combined gross. Again if you have any second thoughts call your dealer and get it handled now. But whatever you decide congrats and enjoy your new Super Duty! My new one will be here in about 3 weeks and I can't wait!
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[Seven Gable]

My second special ordered 2017 F350 just came in yesterday. I ordered the first one Sept and it arrived in January but had an issue with it I did not like so I refused it. I ordered the second one a week later. It just arrived yesterday. The dealer had no problem with me reordering the new one. As stated previously, they put the first one on the lot the day after I refused it without issue.

I have a 2011 F250 CCSB 6.2L gas with the camper & snow plow prep. It has max tow with overload leaf in rear leaf spring pack and rear anti sway bar ("like the F350"). I had a 33' TT that weighed in at almost 8,000 pounds. I pulled it with 4 of us across the county and into and over the Rocky Mountains several times. The F250 was no where near it's limit and it pulled the trailer well. You knew it was back there and the engine had to work on the grades & to get moving but I never had a white knuckle moment or felt it was too much for the truck. It was comfortable. I also pulled a diesel tractor that weighed a little more and it was noticeable. 10,000# is the maximum trailer I would have pulled with that truck.

I purchased a Cougar 336BHS (12,235 GVWR) fifth wheel which is why I ordered the F350. I did order the diesel since I plan more long distance trips but the 6.2 L with the 4.30 is a strong engine and will pull the load just working a lot harder. I have towed "heavy" with an F150 and the F250 and it is not fun for any distance. I feel the extra margin of safety helps make the towing experience better.

Good luck and enjoy your new truck & RV.

[TomD1]

They're making you take the truck? Ehhh I don't know about that.

Sorry if I made it seem as if the dealer is making me take it, :facepalm: that's not the case there are other issues at hand. I bought an Edge from the same Dealer in 2011 off the lot and things started breaking 2 miles down the road, (electronics) it wasn't fixed in 3 days so I asked for my money back and asked them to order me one. They did and it has been the most comfortable vehicle I have ever owned.

[TomD1]

Tom first of all congrats on your new truck! However, if you have any hesitation at all now is the time to speak up. I spent nearly 20 years in the car business and they will order you another truck and put yours on the lot, it's no big deal. If you get any resistance at all PM me and I'll offer all the help I can.

It's appears the F250 will be up to the task of a 336. Cgvwr is 22000. Max tow is 15000. I'm guessing your payload to be roughly 28-2900 lbs. For reference my 337 has a brochure pin weight of 2200 lbs. With just my wife and my dog, hitch, some firewood, full water, loaded to camp, I put around 3300 lbs on my truck. So you can see you will be right at 10,000 lbs. Your loaded trailer is gonna weigh 12-12500 so your good there with max tow being 15000. I'm guessing you will be around 20-21000 so you should also be under on CGVWR. So I agree with you that you'll be able to do this with an f250. What you would gain with the F350 is the bigger transmission, the Dana rear axle, 1500 lbs of payload, 1000 lbs more CGVWR, and 700 lbs of max tow.

So I'll back you up and say you'll be legal and safe but you will be right at max on payload and close on combined gross. Again if you have any second thoughts call your dealer and get it handled now. But whatever you decide congrats and enjoy your new Super Duty! My new one will be here in about 3 weeks and I can't wait!
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Cotus says mine will be here 3/10, only trouble is I will be out of town the following week. The wife says she will be glad to take delivery (LOL). Thanks for you offer of assistance. I to will be glad when it gets here.

[nellie1289]

I have that trailer and a 2014 ram 3500. I have weighed my trailer multiple times and the pin is always around 2200. There was zero chance a diesel 2500 was legally towing this unit. The second it was hitched and I get in truck its over the limit. A gasser will buy you a few lbs. It will also buy you a miserable towing experience. I cannot fathom towing this with a gasser. Unless it was down the block. Get a 350 at minimum before you overload the 250 and experience significant buyers remorse.

[jbc5544]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone out there tows a Cougar with an F-250. I have ordered an F-250 gasser and am looking an a Cougar 336 BHS the GVWR is 12,235 and the pin weight of 1835. everything appears to be within limits, I know it depends how it is loaded, but I am not new to weight and balance.

This is the exact setup and 5th wheel I pull. 2016 F250 gasser with firestone airbags to level. No issues. I just lock out 6th gear to keep it in the power band.

[Tdogg0413]

This is the exact setup and 5th wheel I pull. 2016 F250 gasser with firestone airbags to level. No issues. I just lock out 6th gear to keep it in the power band.

So, now that it's been a year or two, how is it going for the 2 guys with the 6.2 towing the 336bhs? I'll be joining that exclusive club at the end of the week!

Went with an Andersen hitch (no judging) for weight savings. Cheers!
Todd

[Bingo 57]

On my 3ed year with this 5th wheel & as with all the different stock trailers I've pulled with it, I've gotten no greef. I bought the truck new & now have 16100. on the unit. The truck has been one of the better ones I've owned. Fit & finish not so grate, but the performance has been fine. As with anything you need to get use to it & learn it's capabilities. Above all just be smart, :rolleyes:
Bingo

[TomD1]

We ended up getting a Sprinter 334FWFLS instead of the Cougar The weight is similar Have checked the actual camping weight and payload they are close but within limits. Have towed it a couple of times 200 mile trips with no problems. Other than when going up hills, I don't know it's behind me. I just put air bags on the TV to level it. The end of this month I will be doing a 1000 mile trip up the east coast, it will be a good test going up over the NC hills on I-77. I have to say I believe I made the correct choice for me anyway.:D

[rhagfo]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone out there tows a Cougar with an F-250. I have ordered an F-250 gasser and am looking an a Cougar 336 BHS the GVWR is 12,235 and the pin weight of 1835. everything appears to be within limits, I know it depends how it is loaded, but I am not new to weight and balance.

Well the dry pin listed is only 17.8% of dry weight, that will not tow well. Your looking at 20% to 25% of GVW, based on the 5er payload of 1,910# you will be at at least 11,200# so a pin between 2,240# and 2,800#. How does that fit you weight calculator.

[wiredgeorge]

Well the dry pin listed is only 17.8% of dry weight, that will not tow well. Your looking at 20% to 25% of GVW, based on the 5er payload of 1,910# you will be at at least 11,200# so a pin between 2,240# and 2,800#. How does that fit you weight calculator.




Must be raining HARD up there in Oregon... note the fella has had the set up for a year and seems pleased. Why spread the rain to the OP? Cheer up Oregon! :wave:

[rhagfo]

Must be raining HARD up there in Oregon... note the fella has had the set up for a year and seems pleased. Why spread the rain to the OP? Cheer up Oregon! :wave:

No RAIN that is the issue!
Saw TomD’s last post and sounds like for him he is doing fine.