Looking for a Keystone 5r

[capnttom]

We are selling our Class B in favor of something bigger. We've narrowed down our choices between a 5r and an Airstream classic. We have a 2016 Ram 2500 CTD Megacab as a TV.

We like the room the 5r has to offer, but we're also looking for quality. We've spent 2 1/2 years getting the bugs out of our Roadtrek and don't want to go through this exercise anymore, much less the huge hit we'll have to take getting out of it.

It's my wife and I with a couple of dogs. It's not likely we will full time soon, but I will retire in 2-3 years and the option is open, as we will tour the country for a couple of years.

I realize this is a pretty open-ended question, but would appreciate recommendations from folks with 5r experience.

Thanks,
Tom & Cathy

[PARAPTOR]

:wlcm: to The Forum From Western PA

I noticed you have a newer 2016 TV and assume you plan on keeping it at least for the short term. There are a few recent posts that reference payload capabilities of a 2500 and the range trailers that would be a good match. This will limit your selection of 5th wheels that you need to look both short and long term using your current 2500.

Good Luck with your selection

Be Safe

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum :wlcm:

As stated above, determine how much trailer your truck can legally tow, and that will narrow your choices down. Making that determination is more than just asking a salesperson. Loads of threads with links to different sites that can help.

Once you've determined how much trailer, then start looking at everything. I suggest going to a number of different dealers, sit inside the units, paying attention to the details that matter to you. Any given RV can have issues with build or component failure. Hopefully any problems will be addressed by the dealer BEFORE delivery. Choosing the right dealer can be as important as choosing the right trailer. With all that said, Keystone builds a good trailer for the money, better than most.

[sourdough]

An Airstream classic? For more "room"? To stay in for a couple of years?

I was just in one a few days ago and as far as room goes it was like going back to 1985; no slides/straight shotgun RV. They seem pretty nice on the inside but I'm sure they're like all other RVs and have issues....one being the price.

If you're going to spend a couple of years traveling I would highly recommend a modern RV with multiple slides - after a few months the room is most welcome.

The 2500 will limit the size of 5vr you can tow (payload/pin weight) but if you look you can find several that will work....and IMO they would all probably be better than trying to live in the Airstream. Be sure and check out the ability for 4 season living OR schedule your travels so you are in warmer climates during the hard winter months as so many do.

[capnttom]

An Airstream classic? For more "room"? To stay in for a couple of years?

I was just in one a few days ago and as far as room goes it was like going back to 1985; no slides/straight shotgun RV. They seem pretty nice on the inside but I'm sure they're like all other RVs and have issues....one being the price.

If you're going to spend a couple of years traveling I would highly recommend a modern RV with multiple slides - after a few months the room is most welcome.

The 2500 will limit the size of 5vr you can tow (payload/pin weight) but if you look you can find several that will work....and IMO they would all probably be better than trying to live in the Airstream. Be sure and check out the ability for 4 season living OR schedule your travels so you are in warmer climates during the hard winter months as so many do.

Thanks sourdough, understand all your points. We decided today to pass on the Airstream. It's just not worth $130k. So we're looking at smaller 5rs like the Montana High Country. It's a palace compared to our 23' MH.

Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

Thanks sourdough, understand all your points. We decided today to pass on the Airstream. It's just not worth $130k. So we're looking at smaller 5rs like the Montana High Country. It's a palace compared to our 23' MH.

Tom & Cathy

Compared to your class B I think you'll find that most any 5vr is going to be like a palace with so much more room and many more amenities - there won't be any comparison. Good luck!

[capnttom]

Welcome to the forum :wlcm:

As stated above, determine how much trailer your truck can legally tow, and that will narrow your choices down. Making that determination is more than just asking a salesperson. Loads of threads with links to different sites that can help.

Once you've determined how much trailer, then start looking at everything. I suggest going to a number of different dealers, sit inside the units, paying attention to the details that matter to you. Any given RV can have issues with build or component failure. Hopefully any problems will be addressed by the dealer BEFORE delivery. Choosing the right dealer can be as important as choosing the right trailer. With all that said, Keystone builds a good trailer for the money, better than most.

We're on the same page. A small 5r is good for us. I get the weight issue, as I've studied all the treads as nauseam. But thanks for pointing it out.

We want quality and I'm hoping that Keystone is better than most. Like I said, don't want to go through another 2 1/2 years of working bugs out.

Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

We're on the same page. A small 5r is good for us. I get the weight issue, as I've studied all the treads as nauseam. But thanks for pointing it out.

We want quality and I'm hoping that Keystone is better than most. Like I said, don't want to go through another 2 1/2 years of working bugs out.

Tom & Cathy

Keystone, IMO, is as good as any, and better than most, in quality; particularly in getting more for your money both in product and being user friendly. $$ spent has no bearing on what you get quality wise in an RV anymore. I was visiting with a guy with a DRV 5th wheel the other day and he was very unhappy so you need to find what works for you and fits your needs. I believe Chuckster57 was saying in another thread that even million dollar motor coaches have the same issues as we encounter in a travel trailer. Good luck.

Correction to post: The person unhappy was in a Grand Design 5th wheel, not a DRV - I guess my brain works slower than the fingers :)

[silverbullet18]

If you don't mind a TT. The Cougar 33MLS I just purchased has as much room and storage as a FVer and that 2500 can handle it no problemhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/9d819b20e7e85ec072d3d5bebd54dc6c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170212/bc113c917a2664a87fce33495c85203f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rhagfo]

Well I don't know of a TT with a big basement, then the argument becomes you loose the bed of the TV, BUT you only loose to the top of the hitch, so there is room for wood, and ice chest etc. Then most 5ers have more headroom and space for ceiling fan and taller cabinets.
Well part of towing is making the choice between going with the class restricted 10,000# GVWR or going by axle ratings, mainly the rear axle. That choice is yours alone.
We easily carry/tow a 32' Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS with a dry weight of 9,820# less battery and propane, and a GVWR of 12,360#. The pin runs about 2,200#.

The other pluses are more stable towing and tows about 4' to 6' shorter overall length for the same size RV.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_223769_0_06369b3ae413eeea9cd51ddbb6ac04ff.jpg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_223769_1_e4c1c37df9b85167fa381da0637b2e4e.jpg

[capnttom]

Love your setup Russ, looks comfy! Thanks for the input.

Tom & Cathy

[theeyres]

You will have to make sure you can tow a Montana with the 2500. Look at the weights because you will be close but there sure are a lot of full-timers with Montanas. Depending on the size you want you might also look at Arctic Fox fivers. They are much heavier than the Montana on a foot by foot basis but that is because they are built on a much heavier frame. They don't have the glitz but no one will debate that the quality is at the top of the list for a mid priced fiver.

[capnttom]

You will have to make sure you can tow a Montana with the 2500. Look at the weights because you will be close but there sure are a lot of full-timers with Montanas. Depending on the size you want you might also look at Arctic Fox fivers. They are much heavier than the Montana on a foot by foot basis but that is because they are built on a much heavier frame. They don't have the glitz but no one will debate that the quality is at the top of the list for a mid priced fiver.

Thanks Earl, the Arctic Fox is on our list to look at.

We're also looking at a small Montana High Country, which should be within the towing range of my Ram 2500 CTD.

Tom & Cathy

[Tbos]

Welcome to the forum from Southern MD. We are shopping for a 5er to buy in a year or so when we sell the house. We have to get a bigger TV so we are going 1 ton. Lots of fun looking. Lots of TV shows going on in the next couple of months. Have fun.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2014 Silverado 1500 LT in Deep Forest Green

[capnttom]

Welcome to the forum from Southern MD. We are shopping for a 5er to buy in a year or so when we sell the house. We have to get a bigger TV so we are going 1 ton. Lots of fun looking. Lots of TV shows going on in the next couple of months. Have fun.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2014 Silverado 1500 LT in Deep Forest Green

I'm in Houston and there is a good sized show starting on Wednesday. We'll be there! :)

Tom & Cathy

[kfxgreenie]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::facepalm:

Your payload on a Mega Cummins 2500 is squat, not because the truck can't handle it, more so because you didn't pay your uncle enough money to tell you it can handle it. Choice is yours, but your payload is probably under 2000 lb's add a hitch, wife,dogs, and a few things in the truck and your pin probably has to be below 1200 lbs. :eek: A F150 can out perform your HD truck. :D :lol::lol::lol:

[capnttom]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::facepalm:

Your payload on a Mega Cummins 2500 is squat, not because the truck can't handle it, more so because you didn't pay your uncle enough money to tell you it can handle it. Choice is yours, but your payload is probably under 2000 lb's add a hitch, wife,dogs, and a few things in the truck and your pin probably has to be below 1200 lbs. :eek: A F150 can out perform your HD truck. :D :lol::lol::lol:



And your point is???

Tom & Cathy

[rhagfo]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::facepalm:

Your payload on a Mega Cummins 2500 is squat, not because the truck can't handle it, more so because you didn't pay your uncle enough money to tell you it can handle it. Choice is yours, but your payload is probably under 2000 lb's add a hitch, wife,dogs, and a few things in the truck and your pin probably has to be below 1200 lbs. :eek: A F150 can out perform your HD truck. :D :lol::lol::lol:

An F150 might have a better payload rating, but a 6.7 Cummins will out preform a EB any day and get better mileage doing it.
The Ram, has a FAR stronger rear axle and can if the OP chooses will carry that 5er just fine.

[sourdough]

An F150 might have a better payload rating, but a 6.7 Cummins will out preform a EB any day and get better mileage doing it.
The Ram, has a FAR stronger rear axle and can if the OP chooses will carry that 5er just fine.

I think we're getting back into the same old conversation: "will it pull it"? "Is it supposed to pull it?" Is it legal to use "this" to pull it? Is it SAFE to pull it.

There are numerous posts illustrating what is supposed to be followed to stay safe and legal when towing a trailer, with a given weight, with a given truck. Some choose to follow the law and be safe; others pull numbers out of the air and go with that. When you get into the "Hey, I know my truck doesn't meet requirements but it's OK because a; b; c; - " you are in territory that regular folks, with families and consciences don't want to get into. JMO....but I see lots of you out there in parks way overloaded and driving down the highway acting like fools at 70-80mph. Just try to minimize the damage you do to others when "IT" happens. Fortunately for us retaining a great lawyer is not an issue.

[capnttom]

I think we're getting back into the same old conversation: "will it pull it"? "Is it supposed to pull it?" Is it legal to use "this" to pull it? Is it SAFE to pull it.

There are numerous posts illustrating what is supposed to be followed to stay safe and legal when towing a trailer, with a given weight, with a given truck. Some choose to follow the law and be safe; others pull numbers out of the air and go with that. When you get into the "Hey, I know my truck doesn't meet requirements but it's OK because a; b; c; - " you are in territory that regular folks, with families and consciences don't want to get into. JMO....but I see lots of you out there in parks way overloaded and driving down the highway acting like fools at 70-80mph. Just try to minimize the damage you do to others when "IT" happens. Fortunately for us retaining a great lawyer is not an issue.

Agree @sourdough that there are numerous posts on this topic on just about any RV forum out there; I've read threads ad nauseum the last couple of years.

Arguably, I believe that payload numbers are not always supported by stronger loading characteristics such as GCWR and GAWR ratings. If payload is the only consideration I don't think you would see many 2500s pulling 5rs.

So...back to safety. For my truck the GCWR is 25,300# and the GAWR for the rear axle is 6,500# with a base weight of 3,098#. Also the max trailer weight rating is 15,190#. Add the safety factor of a Cummins exhaust brake and I think I can pull a small 5r within safe limits. I do not plan on exceeding these ratings, nor do I have any reason to, as we are comfortable with a small 5r.

If someone can poke reasonable holes in this logic based on facts and/or something I'm missing, I will reconsider and buy a bumper pull, no problem. This is why I'm here. :)

Tom & Cathy

[kfxgreenie]

Agree @sourdough that there are numerous posts on this topic on just about any RV forum out there; I've read threads ad nauseum the last couple of years.

Arguably, I believe that payload numbers are not always supported by stronger loading characteristics such as GCWR and GAWR ratings. If payload is the only consideration I don't think you would see many 2500s pulling 5rs.

So...back to safety. For my truck the GCWR is 25,300# and the GAWR for the rear axle is 6,500# with a base weight of 3,098#. Also the max trailer weight rating is 15,190#. Add the safety factor of a Cummins exhaust brake and I think I can pull a small 5r within safe limits. I do not plan on exceeding these ratings, nor do I have any reason to, as we are comfortable with a small 5r.

If someone can poke reasonable holes in this logic based on facts and/or something I'm missing, I will reconsider and buy a bumper pull, no problem. This is why I'm here. :)

Tom & Cathy

Hey your using common sense and real world #'s, you can't do that. Throw those out the window and focus on the payload. :cool: That is what my insurance companies lawyer will use to take you to the cleaners when you kill my family with your overloaded rig. I read it on the Internets. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn:

[JRTJH]

My only comment would be that you're looking at the "physical capacity" and "physical capability" of your truck. You're saying that since it has "parts that are rated high enough to tow a trailer" that it's "LEGAL" to do so.

The rub comes in when you get into an accident. If it never happens, it's like going 80 in a 55 MPH zone. As long as the cops aren't there...... But, once they do show up...... It's the same with "most larger fifth wheels and many medium sized fifth wheels" and a 3/4 ton truck. It's not at all about the "physical ability" it's all about the "legal issues".

If you're OK with it, then by all means "head to the nearest dealership and buy the fifth wheel of your dreams. After all, there's other people doing it every day.

Keep in mind, if you should happen to have an accident, even if you're not at fault, there's a very good chance that you're going to wind up defending yourself in a court. If you're sued by a "knowledgeable lawyer", you're going to be on the defending end of an extremely uphill battle....

Best of luck with your choices and with your future RVing.

[sourdough]

Agree @sourdough that there are numerous posts on this topic on just about any RV forum out there; I've read threads ad nauseum the last couple of years.

Arguably, I believe that payload numbers are not always supported by stronger loading characteristics such as GCWR and GAWR ratings. If payload is the only consideration I don't think you would see many 2500s pulling 5rs.

So...back to safety. For my truck the GCWR is 25,300# and the GAWR for the rear axle is 6,500# with a base weight of 3,098#. Also the max trailer weight rating is 15,190#. Add the safety factor of a Cummins exhaust brake and I think I can pull a small 5r within safe limits. I do not plan on exceeding these ratings, nor do I have any reason to, as we are comfortable with a small 5r.

If someone can poke reasonable holes in this logic based on facts and/or something I'm missing, I will reconsider and buy a bumper pull, no problem. This is why I'm here. :)

Tom & Cathy

I think you are looking at "some" parts of the equation that equals being safe and within the law.....those that you fit in. Lots of folks do it....I have when I was younger. The bad part is when something bad happens, hopefully it never does, but if it happened to be with me, I would simply have the troopers pull the specs off your door, the specs off the trailer, and, if out of bounds, have the court give me your house, vehicles, children:) and everything you could possibly accumulate in your future.

Facetious? Yes. Could/would it happen? Yes. As I think we've all seen the judges/courts have gone whacky. Am I going to give them a glaring reason to throw me and my family under the jailhouse? Not if I can help it. Just something to think about for those trying to skirt the legal aspects of all this. In a recent post on this forum the stance that GM has about being over payload was stated. In their opinion, you can't....period.

Think about this; you're driving down the highway at 80mph (75 posted TX) and you get pulled over for speeding and issued a ticket for 5 over. Do you tell the trooper that your Vette can run 200 mph so your OK? Do you tell him that it's a 500' right of way with a new divided highway so it's OK? What about, I just put on some new Pirelli P Zeros so I KNOW I'm good to go? Guess what? No cigar. You are breaking the law.....and you get to pay the price.

[capnttom]

Thank you folks for your input. As I mentioned, if somebody can find a flaw in my logic I'll buy a bumper pull. No problem. There are lots of nice bumper pulls out there. I'm not married to a5r.

As to the legal issues, I will consult with a few lawyers. I have access to many in my professional life. Also, my daughter is a Partner at a law firm in Georgia and she represents insurance companies. Something to keep in mind about the law is that if there is an accident of the scope and nature that injures someone, it's likely that a lawsuit will occur regardless of the payload situation. And...if it's my fault, that will be a problem. And for the record, I don't drive at unrealistic speeds. Never.

Finally, here is a link to an interesting video by the Recreational Vehicle & Safety Foundation. There is no mention of payload.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

I think someone posted it on this forum.

Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

Thank you folks for your input. As I mentioned, if somebody can find a flaw in my logic I'll buy a bumper pull. No problem. There are lots of nice bumper pulls out there. I'm not married to a5r.

As to the legal issues, I will consult with a few lawyers. I have access to many in my professional life. Also, my daughter is a Partner at a law firm in Georgia and she represents insurance companies. Something to keep in mind about the law is that if there is an accident of the scope and nature that injures someone, it's likely that a lawsuit will occur regardless of the payload situation. And...if it's my fault, that will be a problem. And for the record, I don't drive at unrealistic speeds. Never.

Finally, here is a link to an interesting video by the Recreational Vehicle & Safety Foundation. There is no mention of payload.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

I think someone posted it on this forum.

Tom & Cathy


Having been on the end of sitting in a courtroom and having a judge make a ruling against me that was totally wrong, feeling completely helpless and then spending the money to get it reversed is something I won't willingly do again (I didn't that time either - just got picked by a nutty cop).

Also, please look at the video you used as a guideline for ignoring payload saying "there is no mention of payload". Please watch the video and stop it at the 7:19 mark. Read the section at the bottom of the page in "notes". It specifically states "make sure vehicle payload will accommodate trailer tongue load weight, and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle". That statement is in virtually every towing guide I've ever read (probably hundreds). Payload IS critical in determining safe towing and will absolutely be considered in a lawsuit. Having friends/family in the law profession (as do I) is really irrelevant since they will not be making the decision as to your fate. Good luck on your choice.

[capnttom]

Having been on the end of sitting in a courtroom and having a judge make a ruling against me that was totally wrong, feeling completely helpless and then spending the money to get it reversed is something I won't willingly do again (I didn't that time either - just got picked by a nutty cop).

Also, please look at the video you used as a guideline for ignoring payload saying "there is no mention of payload". Please watch the video and stop it at the 7:19 mark. Read the section at the bottom of the page in "notes". It specifically states "make sure vehicle payload will accommodate trailer tongue load weight, and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle". That statement is in virtually every towing guide I've ever read (probably hundreds). Payload IS critical in determining safe towing and will absolutely be considered in a lawsuit. Having friends/family in the law profession (as do I) is really irrelevant since they will not be making the decision as to your fate. Good luck on your choice.

Fair enough @sourdough, I will move on. This is the kind of information I'm looking for; objective, rationale, real world. Thank you for your patience and input.

As I mentioned, I'm not married to a 5r. Any recommendation for a bumper pull? Maybe even a bumper pull toy hauler, as I have dogs and a patio would make my wife happy.

Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

I am a believer in getting as big as you can within the limits of the truck. I totally understand wanting all the space you can get. We've been in ours now going on 3 months and we ALL (puppy too) are ready to get back to a big house to stretch out and run and play.

I've never owned a bumper pull toy hauler nor looked at one. I've looked at some of the 5vr toy haulers but with just the 2 of us and puppy, and no toys, it just isn't for us. I have been in some that have the patio out of the living area and we really liked that but the trailer was very large and more than we could handle without buying a dually; which we don't want to get.

You mentioned that you wanted to spend a couple of years traveling in it. I could do that but don't think my wife could. The more space you can get inside, and a 5vr does feel more roomy due to the elevated roof, the better you will feel over time IMO. There are some really nice bumper pulls out there with some great floorplans. There may be some toy haulers that have great floorplans too plus a patio....I don't know. I would suggest getting as big as you can if you go that route. With just the two of us we looked long and hard to find something that was for.....the 2 of us. We didn't care about sleeping a dozen people....or even 4, so we went with a layout that only has a sleeper couch in addition to the main bedroom which leaves the rest of the trailer for storage and "kickback room".

I know the 5th wheel sounds good, it does to me as well, but I'm not trying to push you in that direction by any means. I think it's going to be too much for your truck legally. Remember that your payload will be about 2000lbs or so I imagine. Our payload is 3200 lbs. but a 5vr like we want will overload us so we aren't going to do that. I will look again when we have upgraded to the 3500 in the near future. Good luck on your search - it will take a lot of time I'm sure. IMO (I believe I stated this in an earlier post) Keystone will have the best floorplans for what you're looking for and you will get the biggest bang for your dollar.

[capnttom]

I am a believer in getting as big as you can within the limits of the truck. I totally understand wanting all the space you can get. We've been in ours now going on 3 months and we ALL (puppy too) are ready to get back to 3000 sq. ft. to stretch out and run and play.

I've never owned a bumper pull toy hauler nor looked at one. I've looked at some of the 5vr toy haulers but with just the 2 of us and puppy, and no toys, it just isn't for us. I have been in some that have the patio out of the living area and we really liked that but the trailer was very large and more than we could handle without buying a dually; which we don't want to get.

You mentioned that you wanted to spend a couple of years traveling in it. I could do that but don't think my wife could. The more space you can get inside, and a 5vr does feel more roomy due to the elevated roof, the better you will feel over time IMO. There are some really nice bumper pulls out there with some great floorplans. There may be some toy haulers that have great floorplans too plus a patio....I don't know. I would suggest getting as big as you can if you go that route. With just the two of us we looked long and hard to find something that was for.....the 2 of us. We didn't care about sleeping a dozen people....or even 4, so we went with a layout that only has a sleeper couch in addition to the main bedroom which leaves the rest of the trailer for storage and "kickback room".

I know the 5th wheel sounds good, it does to me as well, but I'm not trying to push you in that direction by any means. I think it's going to be too much for your truck legally. Remember that your payload will be about 2000lbs or so I imagine. Our payload is 3200 lbs. but a 5vr like we want will overload us so we aren't going to do that. I will look again when we have upgraded to the 3500 in the near future. Good luck on your search - it will take a lot of time I'm sure. IMO (I believe I stated this in an earlier post) Keystone will have the best floorplans for what you're looking for and you will get the biggest bang for your dollar.

Thanks again for your time and advice @sourdough! We are going to the Houston RV show this week and will focus on bumper pulls. In the meantime, the quest continues.... :)

Tom & Cathy

[CWSWine]

Here is what GM states about GVWR and the results exceeding it.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/understanding-gross-vehicle-weight-rating.html

[JRTJH]

If you're going to compare/contrast trailers, remember that all fifth wheels and travel trailers in any specific brand are NOT built to a comparable level. Take for instance the Impact trailer brand. There are some very significant differences in the construction/features/appliances in the travel trailer models and the fifth wheel models. As examples, the fifth wheels have R 31 floor/roof insulation, the travel trailers have R 14 in the floor and roof. The fifth wheels have 7' tall slides, the travel trailers have 6' slides (big difference if you're over 6' tall and like your forehead without scars), the fifth wheels are built with 12 gallon water heaters, the travel trailers are built with 6 gallon water heaters... There are some very significant differences, so make sure you look at everything. TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED !!!!!

So, when you look at a fifth wheel and then decide to look at a similar floorplan, same brand travel trailer, you very well may be looking at "an entirely different beast" when it comes to what you get for your dollar.... BUYER BEWARE !!!!!

[kfxgreenie]

For Jimmy's sake Sour's scenario is what is wrong with this country, lawyers with no moral integrity and out for every last $. No common sense, left. When he jumps out and tells the trooper that you are at fault because you are at 11,000 lb's and could have kept your truck under control if you were under your arbitrary payload of 10,000 lb's you grow a pair and tell the trooper how it really was. He was flying 85 MPH in a 70 MPH zone, eating his cheeseburger, while texting on the phone, and looking back words yelling at the kids when he swerved in your lane and you had no chance of avoiding the accident. You want the scene recreated with a rig at 10000 lbs and see if there is any difference. You guessed it Mr Trooper I'm taking everything Sour has, his kids, house 401K it all and you can visit me in the Caribbean. ;)

[sourdough]

For Jimmy's sake Sour's scenario is what is wrong with this country, lawyers with no moral integrity and out for every last $. No common sense, left. When he jumps out and tells the trooper that you are at fault because you are at 11,000 lb's and could have kept your truck under control if you were under your arbitrary payload of 10,000 lb's you grow a pair and tell the trooper how it really was. He was flying 85 MPH in a 70 MPH zone, eating his cheeseburger, while texting on the phone, and looking back words yelling at the kids when he swerved in your lane and you had no chance of avoiding the accident. You want the scene recreated with a rig at 10000 lbs and see if there is any difference. You guessed it Mr Trooper I'm taking everything Sour has, his kids, house 401K it all and you can visit me in the Caribbean. ;)


IF the scenario you depict actually took place the overweight driver MIGHT have some recourse.....but, being overweight is being overweight, and illegal, regardless of the circumstances no matter how big you grow 'em. In my case it never would happen because I do none of the things listed. What you have done is take my speculated situation and twisted it beyond recognition.

Also, in my previous "scenario" I wasn't saying that would be my action (if the actions of someone doing that actually hurt me or my family it might - if law enforcement, the legal system or insurance companies didn't do it first) but rather alluding to what could happen to anyone running overweight. Remember, in that scenario you will be judged by prior knowledge and intent as well. My suggestion would be to start worrying about what might happen to you for running overweight and then causing a situation instead of dreaming of all kinds of absurd things that might happen so you can tell off the troopers and the legal system. 'Nuff said on the topic. One thing I will agree with that you said; lots of folks out to get every $$ they can any way they can; remember that if you choose to run overweight. BTW - I don't like the Caribbean so I'm surely not going to give you my money so you can go:nonono: ....sorry:D

[kfxgreenie]

IF the scenario you depict actually took place the overweight driver MIGHT have some recourse.....but, being overweight is being overweight, and illegal, regardless of the circumstances no matter how big you grow 'em. In my case it never would happen because I do none of the things listed. What you have done is take my speculated situation and twisted it beyond recognition.

Also, in my previous "scenario" I wasn't saying that would be my action (if the actions of someone doing that actually hurt me or my family it might - if law enforcement, the legal system or insurance companies didn't do it first) but rather alluding to what could happen to anyone running overweight. Remember, in that scenario you will be judged by prior knowledge and intent as well. My suggestion would be to start worrying about what might happen to you for running overweight and then causing a situation instead of dreaming of all kinds of absurd things that might happen so you can tell off the troopers and the legal system. 'Nuff said on the topic. One thing I will agree with that you said; lots of folks out to get every $$ they can any way they can; remember that if you choose to run overweight. BTW - I don't like the Caribbean so I'm surely not going to give you my money so you can go:nonono: ....sorry:D

Hey now I'm glad to be able to dream of speculated situations, for your speculated situations when we can't camp in northern climates. After all they are all just that, speculated situations :facepalm:

My one problem, is if it were illegal to be over 10,000 GVWR with a 3/4 ton truck why is the DOT weighing trucks at the weigh station by the GAWR's and not the GVWR, and why are all these contractors 3/4 ton trucks not sitting in the weigh station? If I get taken to the cleaners I will just list the Wisconsin Dot as a Defendant. Pretty sure that the state has plenty of legal power to fight my case. :popcorn::popcorn:

In the meantime I know that I'm on the Homegrown Domestic Terrorist Watch-list for pulling my 5th wheel RV with my 3/4 ton truck. :hide::hide::hide:

[sourdough]

Hey now I'm glad to be able to dream of speculated situations, for your speculated situations when we can't camp in northern climates. After all they are all just that, speculated situations :facepalm:

My one problem, is if it were illegal to be over 10,000 GVWR with a 3/4 ton truck why is the DOT weighing trucks at the weigh station by the GAWR's and not the GVWR, and why are all these contractors 3/4 ton trucks not sitting in the weigh station? If I get taken to the cleaners I will just list the Wisconsin Dot as a Defendant. Pretty sure that the state has plenty of legal power to fight my case. :popcorn::popcorn:

In the meantime I know that I'm on the Homegrown Domestic Terrorist Watch-list for pulling my 5th wheel RV with my 3/4 ton truck. :hide::hide::hide:

I understand sitting in the north and not being able to go anywhere. We have several here in the park from MI, WI, ME, MD and Ontario. That's why these folks are here; to get away from being locked up and going stir crazy:)
My wife and our neighbor lady went beachcombing/shell collecting yesterday for a couple of hours on Alligator Point and came back hot and sunburned.

I don't think you're a homegrown terrorist for pulling a 5vr with a 3/4 ton truck. It's what you have and what you choose to do. Do I think it's right or smart? No. It's gambling and I don't. What I try to do is make a person aware of all the intricacies of weight management (as much as possible) with a vehicle/trailer when they are genuinely inquiring about what they should do to stay safe and legal. I point out the possible consequences of not following the letter of the law, and in some past posts, gave examples of real life situations I have witnessed. A person asking those questions has the ability to choose anything they want and go right down the road. I don't have the ability, nor do I want, to judge anyone based on their decisions relating to what kind of tow vehicle/rv they choose. In the event of an accident someone else will do that. I just believe that a person honestly trying to abide by ALL the rules deserves to know ALL the aspects to hopefully give them the edge if something bad did happen. The last thing I want for me or them is to cut corners and then wind up in court hoping that a jury decides to "understand" why I didn't follow the law. Wishing you and yours safe travels.

[Cabindweller]

Capnttom... While I think that payload is a very important number that should be abided by, I also think it's probably possible to find a fifth wheel within your limits. Make sure to do your research and sound calculations. To arbitrarily say that you should avoid all fifth wheels, and only look at TTs would be a mistake in my opinion. Good luck to you, sir!

[sourdough]

Capnttom... While I think that payload is a very important number that should be abided by, I also think it's probably possible to find a fifth wheel within your limits. Make sure to do your research and sound calculations. To arbitrarily say that you should avoid all fifth wheels, and only look at TTs would be a mistake in my opinion. Good luck to you, sir!

I agree completely. I think there may be something out there in a 5vr that would work. As said above, it requires a lot of research and the use of sound weight calculations to determine what works. Heck, I think I saw a post somewhere of a 5vr with a pin weight of 1230 lbs? due to it being a toy hauler? Maybe Capnttom could buy a RZR :angel: in addition to the trailer to put in the back to drop the pin weight. I have no doubt the truck will pull it;) I wish you the very best of luck finding what will work for you and yours. I, as an RVr and fellow driver on the road, appreciate your concern about trying to stay within guidelines and even modify your RV choices to do so. Thanks.

[capnttom]

I agree completely. I think there may be something out there in a 5vr that would work. As said above, it requires a lot of research and the use of sound weight calculations to determine what works. Heck, I think I saw a post somewhere of a 5vr with a pin weight of 1230 lbs? due to it being a toy hauler? Maybe Capnttom could buy a RZR :angel: in addition to the trailer to put in the back to drop the pin weight. I have no doubt the truck will pull it;) I wish you the very best of luck finding what will work for you and yours. I, as an RVr and fellow driver on the road, appreciate your concern about trying to stay within guidelines and even modify your RV choices to do so. Thanks.

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. One of my key goals is quality, whether a 5r or bumper pull. As I mentioned in my original post, I'm coming from a 23' MH, so anything I buy will be a palace.

Intuitively, it would seem that a 5r would offer a safer experience vs a bumper pull. But with a weight distribution hitch, a good sized bumper pull can be towed safely, and within specs, with my truck. As an Engineer, it doesn't really make sense to me. The 10k GVWR, seems to be more of a political rating than a functional rating. But it is what it is and why take the risk?

Tom & Cathy

[Tbos]

There are some beautiful and spacious TTs out there too. The biggest difference I see is the headroom. Most TT don't come close to the main living areas of a 5er. Let us know what you decide. Have fun looking.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[capnttom]

There are some beautiful and spacious TTs out there too. The biggest difference I see is the headroom. Most TT don't come close to the main living areas of a 5er. Let us know what you decide. Have fun looking.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Tom. I've been looking at Airstreams for 2 years, so I'm well versed in that religion. :) But I think there is better value out there somewhere. I'll get there.... :cool:

Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. One of my key goals is quality, whether a 5r or bumper pull. As I mentioned in my original post, I'm coming from a 23' MH, so anything I buy will be a palace.

Intuitively, it would seem that a 5r would offer a safer experience vs a bumper pull. But with a weight distribution hitch, a good sized bumper pull can be towed safely, and within specs, with my truck. As an Engineer, it doesn't really make sense to me. The 10k GVWR, seems to be more of a political rating than a functional rating. But it is what it is and why take the risk?

Tom & Cathy

Tom, I am very much with you. Realize that "quality" = weight - more or less. Better/thicker wood, more insulation, heavier appliances etc. it all adds up the weight.

I have a bumper pull that would rival most 5th wheels in construction (2014 era) but they quit making them in 2014 because they cost too much and folks would rather buy a 5vr instead for the cost - we didn't want a fifth wheel and they weigh quite a bit as well. Mine was obsolete 4 months after I bought it.

The 10k is more than "political". I am going to (I think) order a 3500 Ram. I have a choice between a 10k gvw or 11700 (if I recall). I make that decision. . When I do I am the one choosing where I fall within the law governing truck weights. Anyone buying one off the lot does as well. Once done, you are subject to what you have chosen. You are about to go look at a lot of stuff at the RV show. I'm sure you can find something. Realize that a 5th wheel is nice but isn't the end all, be all, of travel trailers. My wife wouldn't have one, so, to each his own.

And yes, you can pull a "good sized" bumper pull with your truck. Ours is 38'. Our tongue weight is about 1200 lbs. I use an equalizer hitch (1400 lbs) and we travel in comfort and "peace of mind". I know you can do the same. Please let us know....no judgements here.

[JRTJH]

Thanks Tom. I've been looking at Airstreams for 2 years, so I'm well versed in that religion. :) But I think there is better value out there somewhere. I'll get there.... :cool:

Tom & Cathy

As a previous "dues paying Wally Byam Caravanner", I can assure you that it takes some significant 'lifestyle alterations" to full time in an Airstream. It's true that an Airstream tows remarkably well, it has that "mystique" that causes it to "stand out in the crowd", and if you can afford it, you really don't need to compromise on which tow vehicle you decide to use.

That said, there are some drawbacks that you won't realize until after you 'sign on the dotted line and can't return it".... Consider those "submarine shaped walls" for instance... Since the curve in at the top, you can forget putting 11" dinner plates in the top cupboards, after the 3rd or 4th plate, if you stack any more, they "grow toward the door" and the cabinet won't close. Blame those "curved outside walls".... There are other "issues" that go along with not having slides, feeling like you're in a "sausage skin" when you're stuck inside all day because of nasty weather, and forget going to CW or any RV parts store (except an Airstream dealer) for most replacement parts. From awning rails to converters, it's all pretty much a 'special order" to find a replacement for anything that breaks.

Yup, they're great, have a fantastic reputation (except for the years when Brunswick, of bowling ball fame, owned them).... Think long and hard about Airstreams, they're a heck of a lot of money and the mystique fades faster than the payments !!!!!

[ctbruce]

I own the Impact 312 bumper pull. It's not the 5vr quality but it is very nice. Lots of room for the wife and I and two large fur kids. It is well equipped, well built, and does well for us. I don't consider it a down grade. Some time in the future there is a 5vr in our future but that's at least 4 years away. Till then we are enjoying the extra garage space, our patio deck, and taking our motorcycle with us. We really like this trailer.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

[capnttom]

I own the Impact 312 bumper pull. It's not the 5vr quality but it is very nice. Lots of room for the wife and I and two large fur kids. It is well equipped, well built, and does well for us. I don't consider it a down grade. Some time in the future there is a 5vr in our future but that's at least 4 years away. Till then we are enjoying the extra garage space, our patio deck, and taking our motorcycle with us. We really like this trailer.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

Thanks Chip. DW likes the toy haulers and thinks our dogs would like it too. Do you have the patio? Have you compared the Impact with the Carbon? We don't haul toys, so gas tanks and related stuff not necessary.

Tom & Cathy

[ctbruce]

We have the patio and love it. It gives a place for the dogs to hang out. The carbon is similar bur is a step down on the hierarchy. Both are nice. I was able to get the Impact from my preferred dealer who is only 2 miles from my house. Both were nice and we liked them equally.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

[capnttom]

I wanted to thank everybody for your opinions. I've decided to purchase an Alpine 3400 RS and will take delivery on Thursday.

Thanks again,
Tom & Cathy

[sourdough]

I wanted to thank everybody for your opinions. I've decided to purchase an Alpine 3400 RS and will take delivery on Thursday.

Thanks again,
Tom & Cathy


Congratulations on your purchase! Obviously you've read all the posts and hopefully done your homework. The pin weight on that trailer will be north of 3000 lbs. when loaded. Your current truck will probably be well overweight when said and done. Good luck.

[CaptnJohn]

Hey now I'm glad to be able to dream of speculated situations, for your speculated situations when we can't camp in northern climates. After all they are all just that, speculated situations :facepalm:

My one problem, is if it were illegal to be over 10,000 GVWR with a 3/4 ton truck why is the DOT weighing trucks at the weigh station by the GAWR's and not the GVWR, and why are all these contractors 3/4 ton trucks not sitting in the weigh station? If I get taken to the cleaners I will just list the Wisconsin Dot as a Defendant. Pretty sure that the state has plenty of legal power to fight my case. :popcorn::popcorn:

In the meantime I know that I'm on the Homegrown Domestic Terrorist Watch-list for pulling my 5th wheel RV with my 3/4 ton truck. :hide::hide::hide:


No dog in the fight as I'm well under every number and really not concerned what others do as long as it only affects them. However, last week I heard for the 2nd time there is talk in the FL state house of having RVs hit the scales. Not enough support yet for it to be serious but waiting for one accident big enough to make news statewide or more and it will be seriously discussed. Rumors are not worth much but all states are looking for more revenue. I'd pay no attention unless in the market for a new TV.

[notanlines]

CapnJohn, the roads to Texas and Arizona will be flooded if that were to happen. Wanna see some hostile people? Look at RV park owners if that happens.....

[JRTJH]

I bet the campsite prices go down to an acceptable level if it happens... There's a silver lining in every dark cloud.....