Keystone Recall01/17/2017

[Ddubya]

Just received notice from Keystone that the Tire Loading Information on my new Alpine is not correct.
The label on the unit from the factory has the spare tire listed as "G" rated which is the same as the four tires on the ground.
Seems that the spare is actually an "E" rated tire and Keystone says ,and I quote; ( If the operator replaces the spare tire using the Federal Certification label information, it may be overloaded, increasing the risk of a crash).
Keystones solution is to issue a new label with the spare listed correctly (E rated). Their comment: ( We have enclosed the corrected tags to remedy the situation).
What a novel way to solve a problem!
So now I have a new Fifth Wheel with a spare tire that should I be forced to use it may cause a crash?????
I know that Keystone does not wish to replace all of the spare tires that are under this recall but why should their customers be put at risk in this situation?::banghead:

[CWtheMan]

IMO FMVSS 571.120 is intended to prevent tire overloading. Does your trailer's certification label list your axles as being GAWR 7000#?

Do the new labels - certification and tire - list the axles as being GAWR 7000#? To allow the use of ST235/80R16E tires?

Does the new labeling list the spare as temporary?

Some of the ST235/80R16E tire manufacturers provide that tire with a maximum load capacity of 3420#. That load capacity does not qualify for fitment on 7000# GAWR axles. Was that information provided to you with the new labels? RV trailer manufacturers do not like to tout tire brands. They would have to do so when describing which tires to use. One of the most popular brands with that load capacity is Maxxis, surely not an OEM provider for your trailer's manufacturer.

All of that information has forced many of the RV manufacturer's of trailers with higher GVWRs to go to 7000# axles. They initiate recalls on their trailers revolving around placards with inadequate tire load capacities.

Here is a picture of a certification label that has derated 7000# axles to GAWRs or 6840# so they could accomidate the ST235/80R16E of all three load capacities, 3420#, 3500# & 3520#.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29698

There is another regulation that states tires of the same size designation with more than one load capacity default to the lowest value.

It's sort of odd they did not tell you about why using the information on the certification label would cause overloading. All about tire brands, I bet.

[trooper253]

Just received notice from Keystone that the Tire Loading Information on my new Alpine is not correct.
The label on the unit from the factory has the spare tire listed as "G" rated which is the same as the four tires on the ground.
Seems that the spare is actually an "E" rated tire and Keystone says ,and I quote; ( If the operator replaces the spare tire using the Federal Certification label information, it may be overloaded, increasing the risk of a crash).
Keystones solution is to issue a new label with the spare listed correctly (E rated). Their comment: ( We have enclosed the corrected tags to remedy the situation).
What a novel way to solve a problem!
So now I have a new Fifth Wheel with a spare tire that should I be forced to use it may cause a crash?????
I know that Keystone does not wish to replace all of the spare tires that are under this recall but why should their customers be put at risk in this situation?::banghead:
I received the same notice and had the same question about the spare.

[Ddubya]

The axles on the trailer are 7000lb. The label does not indicate that the spare is "temporary" or that the axles are d-rated.

The tires are Westlake. Below are the specs.
Spare
ST235/80R16 LRE 10 3520 80PSI
4 on the ground
ST235/85R16 LRG 14 4080 single/3640 dual 110PSI

Both tires seem to conform to the 7000lb axles.
So why would Keystone state ( If the operator replaces the spare tire using the Federal Certification label information, it may be overloaded, increasing the risk of a crash).
So a new label makes it OK to use the spare??????

Keystone obviously in an effort to cut costs put an "E" rated spare on the trailer but listed the spare as "G" rated in the sticker supplied with the trailer.
If Keystone thinks that the trailer should have "G" rated tires and state that the "E" rated spare could "cause a crash" what are we supposed to think? Are we expected to replace the spare with a "G" rated tire at our expense to be safe?

[CWtheMan]

Both tires seem to conform to the 7000lb axles.

So why would Keystone state ( If the operator replaces the spare tire using the Federal Certification label information, it may be overloaded, increasing the risk of a crash).

So a new label makes it OK to use the spare??????


The GAWR listed on the certification label is official, not the tag on the individual axles. They are telling you that they know their original spare is rated at 3520# but other tires from other manufacturer's may only be 3420# (Not qualified for 7000# GAWR axles).

There is another section of the regulations that states tires on the trailer at the time of first sale MUST match the information on the certification label.

From another regulation we can find a statement that says tires on the same axel must be of the same size and construction. Those Westlake tires are steel cased, the LRE is polyester cased. Just maybe they should have listed the LRE tire as a temp spare.

[Ddubya]

OK, so if the regulations state that the tires must match the label at time of purchase then by law Keystone should replace the LRE spare with a LRG?

[Jgkopp]

Sounds like legal is crossing their T's and doting their I's. The spare is not held to the same standards as the 4 on the ground so it sounds. It also sounds like one should not operate for very long on a spare. I would not trust a spare anyway as they usually sit there and age beyond the years it would be acceptable to use.

[JRTJH]

I suppose most of the opinions here are "part of the story" so here goes another opinion about what Keystone is doing. I also believe it's a "cross the T's and dot the I's" kind of situation.

From what I read of the recall, Keystone placed a decal on the side of the trailer with information about pressure requirements for the G series tires and then put an E series spare on the bumper... So, if someone did have a flat, installed the spare on the ground as a replacement "AND FOLLOWED THE DECAL" by increasing the pressure in that "80 PSI tire" to the "decal pressure of 110 PSI" the tire would be overinflated and probably fail if subjected to a maximum load rating for the E series tire....

So, it looks to me, from reading the recall, that Keystone is sending all affected owners a new decal with two pressures on it, one pressure for the "Westlake G series tires" and another pressure for the "Trailer King E series spare"...

Seems to be more "housekeeping" than "safety related" although like previously stated, I'd ask for a G series spare and/or replace it myself, just to eliminate any problem with an "overloaded tire" if I were to be at or very near GVW and have to install the spare on the ground.

[sourdough]

You know, the tire issues with Keystone just keep going on and on. I love mine and would probably buy another one....keeping an eye on what tires were on it. On the other hand, I was just looking at a Jayco (thinking about an upgrade....it's not) but it came with 16" Maxxis tires on it....and it was smaller and weighed less than the Keystone we have! That was a big plus to me for the Jayco but couldn't outweigh all its other shortcomings. To me it's a sad thing for Keystone to make some of the best trailers offered but skimp so badly on the tires. I just don't get it I guess:banghead:

[JRTJH]

To add to sourdough's comment, it boggles my mind and I simply can not understand why Keystone produces the Cougar XLite 25RKS with a dry weight of 6400 pounds, the 28RKS with a dry weight of 8020 pounds (both fifth wheels) and the 33SAB with a dry weight of 8390, all with 225 75R15 LRD tires. That's almost 2000 pounds "more load capacity" on the small trailer or objectively, almost 2000 pounds "LESS load capacity" on the larger trailers. The difference is even more impacted when you consider that on the fifth wheel around 20% of the trailer weight is on the pin while on the travel trailer, only around 11% is shifted from the axles and the tires, meaning even more load is carried on the 33SAB tires than on the 28RKS tires.

I see Keystone installing "bare minimum" tires that with the 10% per year degradation, not being sufficient when the warranty expires. If I have one "yell and scream" complaint about Keystone, like sourdough, it's the tires they install on the majority of their trailer.....

As a "final comment" at least the tires on the 25RKS have sufficient load capacity to be a fairly good choice, even if the tire brand is less than optimal.

[m&m]

Picked up my notice today. Many questions that won't be answered because of the bad decision to compromise the customers safety. Covering up the old label with the new on only supports their bad decision.
Will insurance co's cover if needed, knowing you put on a tire less capable.
Will a lawyer defend you when you knew that tire was not capable.

This is the worst customer support for a product that cost so much.

[Orlando3]

Sourdough and JR, I too am frustrated with my new 298 FWRLS, yellow sticker on RV says weight 9730, GVWR 12250, pin weight 2110. I have not put it on a scale to confirm anything yet. Came with 225/75R15, 2540 per tire. Thats barely enough to carry empty trailer. Packed very light and took trip 1500 miles round trip, blowout at end of trip putting trailer away. No damage as i was going 5 mph. I can easily buy E rated 15" tires rated at 2833, gives me more load capacity than i had but I feel not enough. That is not enough to cover GVWR-pin +20 percent and weight of supplies! (12250-2110=10140). I asked keystone who dont recommend 16" tires because it wasnt spec that way. Great, i can camp in my driveway for the rest of my life. Im very very dissapointed to say the least. Let me say, I love my RV, just dissapointed that Im going to have blowouts, damage, regularly and they know it.

[ncgrl1]

We just bought a new 2017 Cougar X-Lite 21RBS. This is the smallest travel trailer in the Cougar line. It has 225/75r15 E rated tires. The placard says to run them at 80psi. This trailer weighs 5200 lbs. I called Keystone and they told me it was correct. This will beat the trailer apart. Unbelievable!!!

[JRTJH]

ncgrl1,

I am very surprised that your trailer is equipped with LR E tires. The specs on the trailer and all that I've seen on the lots are shipping from the factory with LR D tires. You're correct in stating that LR E tires carry a max pressure of 80 PSI. LR D tires carry a max pressure of 65 PSI (and that is what should be on your trailer).

If you go to the ST tire manufacturer's websites you'll find that most of them recommend inflating ST tires to the maximum sidewall pressure (to eliminate sidewall flexing which causes heat buildup). Heat, caused by under-inflation and/or overloading, is the biggest reason for ST tire failure followed closely by operating above the maximum towing speed.

I'd urge you to read the sidewall on the tires to be sure that they are LR E tires. My guess is that Keystone probably put the wrong information on the load certification sticker. If you did get LR E tires, I wouldn't say too much, you're the only one I've heard about who "got something for nothing from Keystone".... That trailer regularly ships with 225 75R15 LR D tires.

[bsmith0404]

Be glad your Alpine came with Gs and you only need to upgrade a spare. Previous year models came with LRE tires and we had to buy all 5 to upgrade. Yeah the recall kind of sucks but technically, the E rated spare can carry the weight. If it was me, I'd probably not install the new label and just upgrade the spare to a G to match the current label.

[CaptnJohn]

Be glad your Alpine came with Gs and you only need to upgrade a spare. Previous year models came with LRE tires and we had to buy all 5 to upgrade. Yeah the recall kind of sucks but technically, the E rated spare can carry the weight. If it was me, I'd probably not install the new label and just upgrade the spare to a G to match the current label.

That depends on if they used the same wheel and did not use a cheaper one only rated to 80#. We really like our Cougar 5er but are considering looking at High Country, Big Country, and Elkridge.

[JRTJH]

Having G series tires on an RV and having a E series spare is something "new and different" in the RV industry, but really it's the same thing the auto manufacturers have been doing for years. It's really no different than having 4 tires "on the ground" and a "high pressure compact donut spare" in the trunk.

I'd just consider the trailer spare as we do the "compact car spares" and realize that it's not a "rotate to the ground" tire, rather just a "limp to help" kind of tire.

My concern would be the omission of a spare tire with the replacement of a can of "high pressure air" similar to what's done in some of the "limited storage sports cars"..... From what I've seen of "totally destroyed tires" on RV's, there's not enough left to hold air, so that system is completely a "non-player" for most of us.

[CWtheMan]

Just received notice from Keystone that the Tire Loading Information on my new Alpine is not correct.


Can you provide a picture of the original certification label on your trailer?

(Keystone has notified owners, and dealers will replace the Federal Placard, free of charge. The recall began on January 17, 2017. Owners may contact Keystone customer service at 1-866-425-4369. Keystone's number for this recall is 17-275.

Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.).

[bsmith0404]

That depends on if they used the same wheel and did not use a cheaper one only rated to 80#. We really like our Cougar 5er but are considering looking at High Country, Big Country, and Elkridge.

From what I've seen, Keystone uses a white spoke wheel which is rated for 3750 lbs and 145 psi for the spare on these trailers...at least that is what's on mine.