Should I get DRW?

[rubyzoo]

I'm new to this forum and new to RV'ing, so please excuse me if this question has already been asked a million times, which I'm sure it has.

I tried to do as much research about 5th wheels and tow vehicles as I could before we went out and purchased something, but you don't know what you don't know, and I have seen conflicting opinions on this topic. The place I bought the RV from said I was fine with my SRW, but I know that is not exactly the best place to get unbiased (or even correct) information.

First of all my 5th wheel is a 2016 39' Keystone Montana 3660RL. My tow vehicle is a 2016 Ford F350 Crew Cab Long Bed SRW. I do know from a shear weight perspective, that the truck will easily handle the RV with sufficient margin. For the few times I've towed so far, everything feels great.

Although I haven't perceived any issues, I do still have concerns about stability and safety. While I'm sure DRW is better that SRW in those areas, I already have the SRW and would prefer not to go to DRW unless there are some compelling reasons that I should do so.

Basically, I guess I'm just looking for a little reassurance that I'm ok with my SRW, but I also don't want a false sense of security. I'd appreciate experiences from anyone towing with a similar configuration, as well as information from anyone with expertise in this area.

Thanks

[Javi]

Only right way to answer that question is to weigh the truck and trailer. Get the pin weight loaded as you're going to haul it with everybody in the truck as if for a trip.

Check the sticker in this truck for your GVWR and payload then compare your numbers.

Javi

[Dave-Gray]

Yes, you need to weigh your rig fully loaded. Follow the 4-Step Weight Safety Plan at FifthWheelSt.com.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[rubyzoo]

Thanks Javi.

If I know I'm ok on the weight, then should I be ok with SRW?

[ctbruce]

You won't know what is right until you weigh and compare tour pin weight to your payload amount listed on your door jamb sticker. You have to include you, passengers dogs, stuff, hitch in subtracting from your specific payload amount. Hope this helps. Javi is spot on.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[notanlines]

Ruby, just as a WAG you are looking at a tongue weight of 2700 to 3300 pounds on the trailer when you're ready to go camping. Like was mentioned previously by all posters you need to go to your local CAT scale and read the results and compare them to the yellow sticker on the door panel. All of this is just semantics until you have the figures in front of you. By the way, can I assume you're running a diesel? That's a lot of trailer for a gas engine.

[jshupe]

I'm new to this forum and new to RV'ing, so please excuse me if this question has already been asked a million times, which I'm sure it has.

I tried to do as much research about 5th wheels and tow vehicles as I could before we went out and purchased something, but you don't know what you don't know, and I have seen conflicting opinions on this topic. The place I bought the RV from said I was fine with my SRW, but I know that is not exactly the best place to get unbiased (or even correct) information.

First of all my 5th wheel is a 2016 39' Keystone Montana 3660RL. My tow vehicle is a 2016 Ford F350 Crew Cab Long Bed SRW. I do know from a shear weight perspective, that the truck will easily handle the RV with sufficient margin. For the few times I've towed so far, everything feels great.

Although I haven't perceived any issues, I do still have concerns about stability and safety. While I'm sure DRW is better that SRW in those areas, I already have the SRW and would prefer not to go to DRW unless there are some compelling reasons that I should do so.

Basically, I guess I'm just looking for a little reassurance that I'm ok with my SRW, but I also don't want a false sense of security. I'd appreciate experiences from anyone towing with a similar configuration, as well as information from anyone with expertise in this area.

Thanks

You should have plenty of margin. Go to the scales if you are worried about it, but...

19.5" LRH tires have similar lateral stability to dual LRE tires. Something worth considering if you don't want to move to DRW. Add some StableLoads if you aren't sitting on your overloads to activate them and the additional leaf will make it more stable, as well.

[bsmith0404]

How do you know you're okay on the weight? When I was selling cars at a Ford dealership, I recommended to more than one customer that they get a DRW when they were looking at an RV like yours because of the payload capacity.

[jshupe]

How do you know you're okay on the weight? When I was selling cars at a Ford dealership, I recommended to more than one customer that they get a DRW when they were looking at an RV like yours because of the payload capacity.

Looks like 2016 F350 SRW CCLB 4x4 payload should be at least 3700#. That gives op ~1100# above the manufacturer hitch weight to play with. Assuming 400# of passengers and 200# hitch, 500# of additional pin weight is still left for gear. Should be within range, might be kind of close or even slightly over, but shouldn't be enough to worry about. Biggest concern for me would be tire capacity and I'd get it scaled because those weights are certainly not to be exceeded.

Edit: at 3,640#/ea, 7,280# pair it's going to be hard to exceed that with that trailer assuming empty truck RAW is around 3200#.

[sourdough]

Looks like 2016 F350 SRW CCLB 4x4 payload should be at least 3700#. That gives op ~1100# above the manufacturer hitch weight to play with. Assuming 400# of passengers and 200# hitch, 500# of additional pin weight is still left for gear. Should be within range, might be kind of close or even slightly over, but shouldn't be enough to worry about. Biggest concern for me would be tire capacity and I'd get it scaled because those weights are certainly not to be exceeded.

Edit: at 3,640#/ea, 7,280# pair it's going to be hard to exceed that with that trailer assuming empty truck RAW is around 3200#.

I think OP has to provide GVW and payload - and hit a scale. Ford indicates the vehicle can have a payload from 2900 to 4000 or so depending on gvw. The above comment depends on the trailer never exceeding the listed PW for dry weight...it will, to the tune of 20% or so of the gvw of the trailer....16,700+ which would equal 3200 lbs (or more give or take). However you want to shake it the vehicle appears to be "close" if not overloaded by the trailer. 1000 lbs for people, hitch, doggies and stuff is hard to stay under and it appears that would put the truck on the "short end" of the numbers - back to first sentence.

[bsmith0404]

I'm going strictly from memory, which has known to fade, but it depends on the trim package. If I remember correctly, an F350 SRW, Power Stroke, 4x4 CC with Platinum trim package has a payload of around 3,100. The OP doesn't tell us what he has......Which brings me back to the question of how do you know you're okay on weight?

[Javi]

As far as I'm concerned that trailer is well in dually country. I don't care what tire you put on SRW 350 it ain't equal to a dually. I've got a 6000 pound payload off the showroom floor, ain't got to do nothing but drive it.

Javi

[CWSWine]

So the 5er has a dry pin weight of 2646 and UVW of 13,180 and Tow Planner says the ready to camp pin weight will be around 3453 pounds. That is a dry pin percentage of 20.1 and with a 3% creep it gives you a 23.1 percent ready to camp. Here is link to the numbers.

http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/TonguePinWeightFromDry/?dt=2645&dw=13180&lw=14950&a=3

Now add 200 for the hitch and 400 for people and stuff in the truck then you would require a 4053 pound payload on the pesky yellow tag on your door jam.

Stubby pencil isn't that accurate so a trip to the scales is still required if you want to sure you under all the specs of the truck but I get it will be close.

Here is a great training video put out by the RV Safety that explains all the numbers.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[bsmith0404]

Going back to the OPs original question of if a dually is better for towing....let me just say I was never a dually fan. I didn't like the looks of them and thought they were overkill for pulling a camper (except for the very large tri-axles). Then I bought our current Alpine. After many years of towing different types of trailers many, many thousand miles, I knew for my families safety as well as everyone else on the road that I needed more truck than my 2500 HD. I know the OP has a 350, but I'll simply say the difference between a 350/3500 and a 250/2500 SRW isn't that significant. When I went to the dually, NIGHT & DAY difference. I am now sold on a dually, wouldn't consider anything different. I still don't care for the looks compared to a SRW truck, but I sure love it for towing.

[spicercars]

Here is my two cents worth. I have had many trailers and fifth wheels over the years and if you have towed with a single rear wheel and then tried a dually you would never go back to a single rear wheel. The two extra tires make a big difference for stability and payload. It would be a dually for me no question.

[gearhead]

My 2014 F350 Diesel, SRW, Lariat, 4x4, CC, long bed, running boards, leather, and sprayed bedliner had a payload of 3267#.
I think Ford makes that truck at different GVW's. I don't remember what mine was.
My Montana HC was advertised at 2175# pin weight. I managed to add at least 1,200 to that, plus the hitch, generator, air compressor, firewood, etc.
Good thing Fords have a good trade-in value.
My Ram has a 12,300 GVW and payload of 4018#.

[bsmith0404]

My 2014 F350 Diesel, SRW, Lariat, 4x4, CC, long bed, running boards, leather, and sprayed bedliner had a payload of 3267#.
I think Ford makes that truck at different GVW's. I don't remember what mine was.
My Montana HC was advertised at 2175# pin weight. I managed to add at least 1,200 to that, plus the hitch, generator, air compressor, firewood, etc.
Good thing Fords have a good trade-in value.
My Ram has a 12,300 GVW and payload of 4018#.

That's about what I was thinking. 3,267 on a Lariat, so the 3,100ish that I was remembering for a Platinum is probably about right. Adding 1,000 lbs or more to the pin is not surprising either.

[notanlines]

Gearhead, the problem is you're still driving a Dodge. People can spot them coming for miles with the weird things they call mirrors hanging on the doors.
Now to be a little more serious, y'all are a bunch of spoil sports.....accurate, but spoil sports. :D Yes, this is indeed dually territory.

[chuckster57]

Had a '97 Jayco 323RKS. Towed it for years with a SRW. Bought a DRW in '08...night and day difference. DRW is the only way to go when your caught in less than favorable conditions.

[gearhead]

Gearhead, the problem is you're still driving a Dodge. People can spot them coming for miles with the weird things they call mirrors hanging on the doors.
Now to be a little more serious, y'all are a bunch of spoil sports.....accurate, but spoil sports. :D Yes, this is indeed dually territory.

I call them Hillbilly Mirrors. Kids around here that have a YETI sticker on the back window and nothing ever in or behind the truck, drive around with the mirrors out in Hillbilly position.
Yeah that's dually territory. If I went up any more I would be there too.

[bsmith0404]

I never really paid much attention to them, but my son pointed out that the majority of Ram owners drive around with them flipped out. So I started watching, yep, I'd say about 90% just leave the mirrors flipped for no apparent reason other than they want their truck to look like it has real mirrors like Ford and GM.

[gkainz]

I guess I'm in the minority, then. The elephant ears get folded in when the 5er gets unhooked and stays that way until I hook up again.

[Javi]

Most of the ones I see are jacked up 4x4s with 6" lifts and no hitch... but them silly mirrors are pulled out.

Javi

[gearhead]

I usually don't even flip them out to tow my 21ft bay boat unless I have to get on the freeway.
I actually like them better than my Fords. Somehow I can see better down the curb side of the 5th.
But yeah they do look stupid out when not towing.

[bagged123]

I just upgraded to a DRW because we're getting a Montana, and decided to get the DRW for 1 major factor:
pin weights of the montana's, these have a heavy pin from other 5'ers we looked at and wanted a truck that had plenty of payload capacity.

another reason I went to a dually, is because of the length of the Montana's, most maxing out close to 40', the wide hips of a dually will add some stability.

[Orlando3]

Wait..... I have a dodge.......you mean your not soppossed to put the mirrors out when driving to walmart?😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T817A using Tapatalk

[rrjernigan]

I had the exact truck (2016 SRW F350 etc) you describe. I was pulling a 2015 DRV Tradition. Dealer of the DRV assured me my F350 SRW was a good match for the RV. Pulled the DRV for six months and everything was just fine. Only issues were rough ride and some lurching from time to time. Started looking at the numbers one day and realized I was actually a bit over the maximum payload capacity. Didn't really want a DRW truck but started looking at the 2017 F350 equivalent truck but with the 4.10 rear axle. I drove both trucks over some very rough road unloaded (I do a lot of unloaded driving). While both were rough and stiff the 2017 DRW was a lot better than the 2016 SRW. Dealer made me such a good deal I had to change. Best towing decision I've made and a much better unloaded drive. Monday January 30th I am trading the DRV for a Montana 3811MS. My 2017 DRV will pull just about anything made so I never really have to worry again. Payload is over 6,000 lbs and total pulling capacity is over 30,000. Montana is a touch heavier than the DRV but with the DRW I'm sure I will not notice. Well worth the upgrade to the DRW if for peace of mind issues only. We are fulltimers.

[rubyzoo]

Thank you for all the replies. It's been very helpful for me. I was able to find a CAT scale about 40 miles from where I live, so I will definitely take the fully loaded rig down there and get it weighed.

Some more details about my vehicle and the trailer. According to Ford's towing guide website, my truck's (which is a diesel) 5th wheel towing capacity is 15,700 lbs (trailer only). GCWR=23,500 lbs. The dry weight of the trailer is 12,950 lbs, with cargo weight not to exceed 3,635 lbs.

The tire and loading info sticker on the truck says combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 3,101 lbs.

Other info on truck:
Front GAWR: 5,600 lbs
Rear GAWR: 7,000 lbs
GVWR: 11,500 lbs
5th Wheel King Pin Weight = 1,942 lbs to 3,237 lbs (15% to 25% of trailer dry weight)

It seems like with the GVWR and dry weight of trailer alone, I am exceeding GCWR of 23,500 lbs rated, vs 11,500 + 12,950 = 24,450 lbs actual.

If the above math is correct, one thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the truck is rated to tow 15,700 lbs. However, if the GCWR=23,500 and the truck GVWR=11,500, wouldn't the max towing capacity be GCWR-GVWR, or 23,500-11,500=12,000 lbs?

[bsmith0404]

Actually, some of the trailer weight is going to be included in your GVWR so your calculation is not 100% accurate. Based on the sticker info, your trucks actual weight is somewhere around 8,400, so that leaves you 15,100 of trailer, occupants, gear, and cargo before you exceed the GCWR...which will most likely happen. However, the combined weight of occupants and cargo of 3101 listed on your door sticker is going to be easily exceeded with a trailer that heavy. You really are in DRW territory.

[Javi]

Save the fuel and weight fees and use the cash to drive to a truck dealer..

[rubyzoo]

Javi, yes, I agree. Already started working on it. :-)

[CWSWine]

The Ford spec of 15,700 5th wheel is with a 15% pin weight - 15700*15%= 2335 pin weight which is well within you payload. The real world a 5er that heavy going to around 23% pin weight or 15,700 * 23% = 3611 so that would be over your payload. It's not just Ford does it but GMC, Chevy and RAM all use 15%.