A "soft" floor in lightweights?

[marcortez]

Can someone, with perhaps a Passport model, please describe the sensation of the flooring when walked on?..

Per the specs, I am seeing the flooring is of 2" laminated material, framed with aluminum supports.

Is this flooring "squishy"?.....or any other terms that would suggest less than a solid and durable walking surface.

Actual lightweight trailer model owners, past and present, with the laminated flooring, may provide a more insight than "I heard" scenarios.

Thank you

[Tbos]

In my 2nd Passport. No squishy floor. There is one spot on my current 2810 near the center floor vent that has a little give but I think that is due to the way the supports are in that area.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2014 Silverado 1500 LT in Deep Forest Green

[JimQ]

If you remove one of the floor vents, you will see that these lightweight trailer floors are made of Styrofoam sandwiched in between two sheets of very thin plywood. Yes they can flex. I had excessive flexing in the area in front of my sofa and Keystone authorized an added support be welded underneath which they authorized before my warranty expired. On the light weight trailers you have to give up certain things in order to keep the weight down.

[poppin_fresh]

My 2016 Bullet floor does not squish at all. It feels just as solid as our house, aside from the normal TT and stabilizer wiggle.

[1l243]

I have not noticed any give on my Premier Bullet 19fbpr

[CrazyCain]

:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:I have just a little "give" in the flooring near the door on my 2017 Hideout 177LHS.. seems normal.

[PT RV`er]

I don`t feel any soft spots on mine.

[bill-e]

I have the Xlite floor and it is indeed spongy. There are no soft spots as one would describe like a rotten or wet floor but if you weigh enough and pay attention you can feel the give in the floor.

I added stabilizers to my camper because it seemed to move a lot but they didn't remove all the bounce feeling because much of it is coming from the floor itself.

I would certainly have preferred a solid floor and a walk upon roof but not if it meant I would have had to buy a bigger truck or a smaller camper, which it would have had to do. The Xlite construction allowed me to get a great camper and tow it effortlessly with my truck.

[marcortez]

I have the Xlite floor and it is indeed spongy. There are no soft spots as one would describe like a rotten or wet floor but if you weigh enough and pay attention you can feel the give in the floor.

I added stabilizers to my camper because it seemed to move a lot but they didn't remove all the bounce feeling because much of it is coming from the floor itself.

I would certainly have preferred a solid floor and a walk upon roof but not if it meant I would have had to buy a bigger truck or a smaller camper, which it would have had to do. The Xlite construction allowed me to get a great camper and tow it effortlessly with my truck.

Indeed sir.....not to mention the upfront costs, in the thousands, it takes to get a plywood based floor over a "laminated" floor.

[Seaker]

I have a 2017 passport 2520RL and the floor seems solid to me.

[talk2cpu]

I have a 2011 250BH Passport and the floor has continued to expand the soft feel. Started out at the floor vent between the kitchen and the dinette. Was just a little on each side of the vent. Now it extends about 24" to the rear and 36" to the front. Feels mostly like the floor is delaminating. I'm afraid the only fix will be to cut out floor areas to install additional supports then install plywood and new floor covering. Hate to add the weight.
Any ideas?
Tom

[CamperDave]

I have a 2011 250BH Passport and the floor has continued to expand the soft feel. Started out at the floor vent between the kitchen and the dinette. Was just a little on each side of the vent. Now it extends about 24" to the rear and 36" to the front. Feels mostly like the floor is delaminating. I'm afraid the only fix will be to cut out floor areas to install additional supports then install plywood and new floor covering. Hate to add the weight.
Any ideas?
Tom


My new 2017 Outback 293UBH that has not even made it out yet, seems to have a little give to it which I am ok with since it's a laminated/Styrofoam floor. Sounds like your issue could be a separation of the lamination near the aluminum framing or maybe a poorly welded joint in the bracing. I can't think of a fix for that other than carefully removing the affected material and using liquid nails to adhere back to its original position (with bricks or weights on top to secure until glue dries). Then you will have a seam to deal with... On the other hand, you never know what you will run into once the section is removed. Just throwing that out there...

[TheRealMacGyver]

My 2015 238ML has a delaminated (I think) spot in the floor that is directly over my gray tank. The vinyl flooring is lifted and if you get down and tap it all sounds hollow. The area is about 12" x 12" and it seems to be getting worse. No water in this area except the gray tank, but it is below, so doubt it is the cause. Might try to drill a small hole and inject some epoxy down in there, but I don't really know if that would even work. Last Passport I will ever own for sure (not first problem).

[k94x4]

We have a 2017 328RL. We have had a soft floor between the galley and dinette and and took it in to get checked out. Turns out the floor is rotten. Same symptoms as has been mentioned here. Keystone has said too bad for you. I will be contacting Keystone directly tomorrow. This is ridiculous.

[KenJFerguson]

Just wrapping up our first ever RV trip in the 2014 Bullet 22RBPR we purchased privately for $14k this summer.

Without any prior RV knowledge and the inspector I found backed up at least a week I bought the unit without a professional inspection despite noticing a soft spot just inside the entrance door.

After 6 weeks of cleaning inside and out, buying all the accessories, planning stops, booking parks and provisioning we headed out Sept. 1 for a 2-month loop from Atlanta to the western mountain national parks and back through the southern states.

While the trip has been fantastic and everything has worked perfectly in the unit I am starting to regret both my lack of awareness of the luan sandwich floor construction technique and not waiting for that inspection.

During the trip, the spot at the entry door has continued to soften to the point the vinyl flooring is getting wavy and soft spots have shown up on both sides of the bed along the walls and in the middle of the salon. After reading threads on this forum I now understand the cause and the possible solutions.

With zero warranty coverage (despite the manufacturing flaw noted in this forum) and a remediation cost that likely exceeds the trailer's value, unless anyone has a better idea I see no option other than to live with the soft floor while enjoying as much RV travel as possible and hope I don't put my foot through the floor while doing so.

PS. Additionally, over the past 2 days of driving a bolt/screw head has been progressively working its way up under the vinyl flooring in the center of the kitchen/salon. I expect it will break through shortly. With the plastic "thermal package" sheeting under the frame how does one get a look at the flooring from the underside of the trailer???

[KenJFerguson]

PS. Additionally, over the past 2 days of driving a bolt/screw head has been progressively working its way up under the vinyl flooring in the center of the kitchen/salon. I expect it will break through shortly. With the plastic "thermal package" sheeting under the frame how does one get a look at the flooring from the underside of the trailer???

The head of that screw/bolt finally did break through the vinyl flooring in the center of the kitchen. Good news is that it is a screw not a bolt with a nut on the other end under the floor which means I don't need to drop the thermal underbelly. Just put a bit of adhesive on it, screwed it back in then a dab of glue to seal the vinyl flap it had created back down.

[Frisbeekev]

I have a 2018 passport and we have what seems to be a soft spot in the floor. It seems to me to be the bracing underneath the trailer, being spread far apart.

[JRTJH]

I have a 2018 passport and we have what seems to be a soft spot in the floor. It seems to me to be the bracing underneath the trailer, being spread far apart.

That could very well be a source of a "weak floor". I've seen several trailers where children "jumped out of the bunks" onto the floor and broke the floor joists under the vinyl/luan flooring. On others, there is no joist from side to side, but rather a joist from the trailer sidewall to the centrally located heat duct, and then a space (where the heat duct runs) and the floor joist picks up on the other side and runs to the trailer sidewall. In other words, there's no support under the floor where the heat duct runs. Stepping on that area will usually "feel weak"....

So, it could be an issue that's "self inflicted" or it could be a "designed in limitation" or it could be "a problem that needs attention"....

More information about where your "soft spot" is located and how you've determined it's a "soft spot" would help define the issue better.

[Zena]

I just bought a Passport and although I haven’t noticed any soft spots in the floor, there is a ripple and a few bulges underneath the vinyl flooring. Might the adhesive failed in these areas, perhaps when the trailer was hot inside? Has anyone else had this issue?

[JRTJH]

The vinyl flooring is not "glued to the subfloor under it. The only adhesive is around the perimeter to hold the flooring in place until the trailer is constructed. That is "by design" and not a "skipped step". The flooring, if it were glued to the subfloor, would expand/contract at a different rate than the underlaying structure. That would lead to cracks in the winter and buckling in the spring. Take a look at your floor and see if you can identify something near the bulge that could have been "pushed toward the bulge before it was installed permanently. You might find something like a floor heat vent that's just slightly larger than the hole cut in the vinyl. When the vent is pushed into the hole, it makes the vinyl floor bulge slightly where it's pushed away from the hole. That's just one example of a possible cause for the bulge.

[Zena]

I checked that already. Could it just be air? Perhaps the styrofoam below gassed off from underneath, causing the floor to lift up in spots? I was thinking about using a syringe loaded with adhesive, poking the floor and then rolling it smooth.

[JRTJH]

I checked that already. Could it just be air? Perhaps the styrofoam below gassed off from underneath, causing the floor to lift up in spots? I was thinking about using a syringe loaded with adhesive, poking the floor and then rolling it smooth.

I don't know. It could be as simple as the hyperdeck material under the vinyl isn't as "rough textured" as the luan it replaced or it could be that your vinyl flooring was laid a tad too loose allowing it to billow, or it could be ?????

Have you talked to your dealership about your concerns?

[Zena]

I bought the trailer from the previous owner in a private sale, so I don’t have a dealer. I’m going to try the adhesive and roller method I saw on YouTube. Just wanted to know if anyone else has had this issue, and what they did to correct it. Thanks for your input!

[JRTJH]

If you have a luan subfloor and glue the vinyl to that foundation, you will significantly increase your chances of seeing split/cracked vinyl in the spring. Cold temperatures don't "play well" with vinyl flooring glued to a wood subfloor. As the temperature drops, the subfloor contracts at a different rate than the vinyl. When the temperature rises, the subfloor expands quicker than the vinyl and pulls it apart, creating cracks/splits in your floor.

There is a long, long history of vinyl floor failures in travel trailers that are stored "in widely changing temperature conditions". That's one of the reasons why trailer manufacturers stopped "gluing the vinyl to the subfloor"... They got tired of replacing vinyl in customer's trailers....

I hope your zeal to secure your floor doesn't turn into a need to rip it all out next spring.....

[travelin texans]

I bought the trailer from the previous owner in a private sale, so I don’t have a dealer. I’m going to try the adhesive and roller method I saw on YouTube. Just wanted to know if anyone else has had this issue, and what they did to correct it. Thanks for your input!

Getting advice from FB or U tube users is very risky! Some have good ideas, but the majority are a bunch of knuckleheads that want their 15 minutes of fame.
I'd be much more inclined to take advice from anyone on here with years of rv experience, & a couple RV technicians, than some know it all on FB/UT that's owned a RV for a week or two.

[AirZone]

My - new to me- 2017 Bullet 19FBPR has 2 soft area’s. 1st is as you step into the bathroom. I don’t believe it is a rotten floor, around toilet, shower and sink is all solid. I think the plywood is cracked but can’t tell unless I lift the linoleum and I don’t really want to do that. 2nd spot is underneath the window beside bed on drivers side of trailer. Could be rotten from a window leak, but the wall underneath window is solid.
I can’t figure a way to find out unless I cut the linoleum.

[Ken / Claudia]

That's the whole problem with leaks and rot, you need to tear into the structure to find why, where and how the damage happened. Its all behind roofs, walls and floors.

[michael_h]

What I have discovered is our floors are delaminating from below, our floors in earlier models are Styrofoam with a piece of 1/4" marine plywood glued to either side. My trailer is a 2016 26RBI and I have traveled extensively with it in all weather conditions and the plywood is beginning to delaminate at the edges mostly near the wheels and spreading inward. Our fix was to add exterior 3/4" plywood where we could to brace up the floor, before doing so I did contact Keystone and their solution was because the trailer is 5 years old it's my problem.

Newer trailer floors are a plastic material sandwiching the foam, which tells me they're aware of this issue or they would have stuck to the plywood design

Attached are images of my out of warranty fix

[Bustinbeards]

I have a thread on my insurance salvage rebuild of a camper that had a leak and the floor and subfloor was soft in a few places. I have torn out almost 1/2 of the floor in the trailer. I fixed mine from the top with Metal L brackets and pressure treated wood. The floor is indeed a 1/4” particle luan on bottom 1.5” styrofoam in the middle and another piece of 1/4” luan on top. The aluminum bracing is spread out in some areas more than 4 feet. So I could see where this would lead to delamination sagging or create a weak spot in hi traffic areas

[SharonW]

I have a 2017 passport 2520RL and the floor seems solid to me.

That’s my model. Mine is soft. We may notice it more because we’re not light people. It was just in front of the furnace vent in front of the couch. Now I’m starting to feel it everywhere in the kitchen/living area. Bedroom & Bathroom are fine.

[wiredgeorge]

That’s my model. Mine is soft. We may notice it more because we’re not light people. It was just in front of the furnace vent in front of the couch. Now I’m starting to feel it everywhere in the kitchen/living area. Bedroom & Bathroom are fine.

The individual you quoted has not been on the site for six years. This thread is pretty old. If you are having issues, suggest you start a new thread so your issues will get more perspectives.

[SharonW]

Our floor has been looked at by RV repair man. There is no water damage, but it is clearly collapsing in several parts. The camper is only 6 years old. I really would like to contact them. Maybe they’ll do something?

[sourdough]

Our floor has been looked at by RV repair man. There is no water damage, but it is clearly collapsing in several parts. The camper is only 6 years old. I really would like to contact them. Maybe they’ll do something?


The person you quoted in your previous post has not posted on the forum for 6 1/2 years. Who do you want to contact? If you're referencing Keystone you can contact their customer service department but they aren't going to do anything for a 6 year old camper.

One of the things that always worried me about that sandwiched foam floor is longevity. IF everything was sitting on 16" centers it might be OK but when those spans vary in width and get pretty wide that foam will flex. Over time the foam flexes enough that it weakens and although the floor is probably in OK shape it develops a "bounce"/ "sag" or softness under step. You said ya'll aren't lightweights so I can see that happening and it's probably normal.

[GordKey22]

We have a 2018 Hideout. The floor has a bit of flex but I weigh 290 pounds.

[JRTJH]

Our floor has been looked at by RV repair man. There is no water damage, but it is clearly collapsing in several parts. The camper is only 6 years old. I really would like to contact them. Maybe they’ll do something?

Here is a diagram of how your "foam core floor system" is constructed. Typically, there is a 1/8" luan bottom layer, 1.5" of rigid foam board (like the pink stuff at Lowe's) and then either a 1/4" or two 1/8" luan sheeting as a top layer under the vinyl flooring or carpet.

THAT IS NOT A RIGID OR OVERLY STRONG FLOOR....

Walking on the floor is usually OK, within reason. Jumping on the floor, bouncing on the floor or someone "not light" may stress the 1/4" top luan layer beyond its strength limits. When "ultra-light trailers are built, the components used to construct them are "reduced in weight" which means they also are reduced in strength. Using 1/4" flooring on top of foam to replace 1" or 3/4" or even 5/8" plywood floor decking does reduce weight, but it also SIGNIFICANTLY reduces strength and, unfortunately, reliability through years of use...

Simply put, your trailer floor was designed to reduce weight (a sales feature) so it could be pulled by lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles. That compromise means a "longer, bigger trailer" but the other side of that coin also means, "a lighter, less robustly built and less strong trailer. Another way to look at it, a 30' 4500 pound trailer just can't have the strength of a 30' 7500 pound trailer. When you "shave that 3000 pounds of material off the trailer, you also shave reliability, strength, endurance and longevity as well.

Here's a cross section of your floor. Just as you wouldn't expect to lay a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 inch plywood on 4 concrete blocks and expect it to support your weight as you walk across it, the same applies to that 1/4" floor that spans the floor joists in your trailer.

Contacting Keystone Customer Service will very likely result in your disappointment when they tell you that your trailer is out of warranty and there is nothing they can do to help you with repairs. Then, if you're not the original owner, it even further "clouds the issue" since there is no way you can "personally confirm the use/abuse caused by the previous owner"... So, don't expect much from Keystone on this issue.

Here's what your floor looks like.

[RagingRobert]

A "soft" floor means a moisture issue...a little deflection means unsupported floor/bad joint Imo. The flooring material they used in my 2018 RV is crap and will absorb water like a sponge and turn to mush sitting on styrofoam creating a soft feeling floor.

[KenJFerguson]

Brilliant... thank you for the pics... I can see what you've done and you may have saved me an enormous amount of time and effort. What started as a soft spot just inside the door of our 22RBPR has spread forward under the starboard bedroom window. We were just going to wait until we felt like we were going to put our foot through it before lifting the vinyl flooring and replacing the rotting section. Your idea is much easier and the RV will retain the lovely smell of rotting luan.

[RagingRobert]

Just to keep this old thread alive :) that was a joke @ 37 right? I mean the rotting luan part :) To properly repair a rotten floor Imo, you must remove anything in the way, cabinets, beds, etc. Now you can roll back the floor, remove the rotten ply or better, all of it and install better grade ply by gluing it down to the styrofoam held in place by plywood pcs. and concrete blocks. Make sure the well glued joints are on or near floor framing/joist to help with deflection. Roll back the undamaged floor, glue/staple the edges and put everything back in it's place and you're really good to go...or you can just put pcs of plywood underneath the floor here and there and camp with the smell of moldy wood :)

[KenJFerguson]

No joke actually. Compared to the quick fix in #28 the thought of the time (and loss of use), effort, and expense to properly repair the relatively small part of the floor that is soft as described in #38 we are OK living with the unique aroma which is really not very bad. Of course, we assume that it's not killing it in some way.

[RagingRobert]

Mold is a killer and loves the humid RV environment for growing. Your floor will still be soft after that repair but I guess you won't fall thru. I hope the water penetration issue is solved and the rotten floor has a chance to dry up at least.