How to jack a trailer for a flat tire change??

[xrated]

OK, so I'm pretty new here and I did do a search and still have not found, what to me would be a definitive answer to the question that has been nagging me about my new T.H. It seems that in the hours and hours of reading that I've done on this subject, there is not a clear cut answer and that bugs me. So, I've got some questions (I'm sure they been asked many times before), but that doesn't mean that I'm "in the know" just yet. It seems that the trailer manufacturers will tell you not to lift the trailer by the frame....then the axle folks will tell you not to lift the trailer by the axles. I guess the only other choice is to levitate it up, but I've never been very good with that sort of thing.
So here are a few questions that I have. First, let's lay down some parameters for the trailer in question.

1. Keystone Fuzion Impact 303 Toy Hauler with 7000 lb Dexter axles and EZ lube hubs. The mounting system, as best I can tell is the "Double Eye Leaf Springs". This trailer is a pull behind.
2. The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is 13K
3. Dry Weight is 9K
4. Hitch weight is 1360 lbs
5. 8 lug wheels with ST235/80R/16E tires
6. Main frames under the trailer are mostly enclosed.
7. Bottom of the 3" diameter axle is approx. 13" from the ground
Hopefully that is more than enough info about what I've got and so, the questions.....

I have a need for some way/method of jacking the trailer up in case of a flat (we all do, right?) I've seen the Anderson Rapid Jack and I am wondering if that method would work for the type of axle setup that is on this trailer. It seems that if you had a flat on let's say the rear and you pulled the trailer's front tire upon the Rapid Jack, the rear might just NOT come off the ground enough to be able to change the tire. Does anyone here have actual experience with that particular item....AND....use it on an axle system like the one that is on the Impact 303?

Next question is in regard to actual jacking up of the trailer with conventional methods....bottle jacks primarily. So I'm looking purchasing a 12 Ton bottle jack and the Safe Jack Recovery kit....or at least some of the items. I simply cannot make myself want to try and lift the trailer/wheel off the ground enough to change a flat by using the frame lift method. I measured my frame to ground distance and I'm seeing approx. 24 1/2". So that's why I'm looking at jacking the axle, and positioning the jack as close to the inside of the wheel as possible, using the cradle that comes with the Safe Jack kit. So, have any of you used not only the bottle jack method on the axle, BUT ALSO the Safe Jack Recovery system parts to help distribute the weight over a larger area of the axle?

What say you .....all you very experienced guys out there?

[JRTJH]

I don't know that I qualify for "experienced" status on jacking trailers. The only time I've ever had to jack mine off the ground is at home for bearing maintenance, tire rotation or brake adjustment, so mostly I've been fortunate to only need to jack mine off the ground under "ideal conditions in a controlled environment". So far (knock on wood) I've never needed to jack a wheel off the ground on the side of the road, with the trailer leaning, traffic "whizzing by" and on soft, sandy soil or even on "hot, sticky asphalt".

I use a 6 ton bottle jack to lift one axle at a time. If I need both axles off the ground, I still jack the axle, put a jack stand under the frame, remove the jack and then place it under the other axle. I have a "U-shaped steel boot" that I place on the jack ram and position it between the two U bolts that hold the spring pack on the axle.

The Keystone owner's manual and the Lippert axle manual (or Dexter manual) state contradicting information which, for the most part, as you said, indicates "not to use their equipment" but use the "other manufacturer's equipment" so the axle guy says "use the frame" and the frame guy says "use the axle"...

I think, for the most part, since the axle U bolts support the axle/spring assembly at 70 MPH over potholes and gravel road ruts, that same assembly will support the partial weight on that axle in a "static mode" for enough time for me to do "what I have to do"....

I might be wrong, as I said, I've never had to jack my axles off the ground in a "less than ideal situation" so I'm open to the "OH NO!!!" comments on why I'm going to damage something or kill myself "next time"..... :eek:

[notanlines]

Safety-wise and ease of changing, most definitely jack on the end of the axle, right where the spring is mounted to the axle. Absolutely no reason to buy some "play-pretty" that some inventor came up with. Most seasoned RV'ers that I talk to simply pull the trailer up on four 2x10's with the good tire/axle
and change the tire. When you're done simply drive off.

[xrated]

I don't know that I qualify for "experienced" status on jacking trailers. The only time I've ever had to jack mine off the ground is at home for bearing maintenance, tire rotation or brake adjustment, so mostly I've been fortunate to only need to jack mine off the ground under "ideal conditions in a controlled environment". So far (knock on wood) I've never needed to jack a wheel off the ground on the side of the road, with the trailer leaning, traffic "whizzing by" and on soft, sandy soil or even on "hot, sticky asphalt".

I use a 6 ton bottle jack to lift one axle at a time. If I need both axles off the ground, I still jack the axle, put a jack stand under the frame, remove the jack and then place it under the other axle. I have a "U-shaped steel boot" that I place on the jack ram and position it between the two U bolts that hold the spring pack on the axle.

The Keystone owner's manual and the Lippert axle manual (or Dexter manual) state contradicting information which, for the most part, as you said, indicates "not to use their equipment" but use the "other manufacturer's equipment" so the axle guy says "use the frame" and the frame guy says "use the axle"...

I think, for the most part, since the axle U bolts support the axle/spring assembly at 70 MPH over potholes and gravel road ruts, that same assembly will support the partial weight on that axle in a "static mode" for enough time for me to do "what I have to do"....

I might be wrong, as I said, I've never had to jack my axles off the ground in a "less than ideal situation" so I'm open to the "OH NO!!!" comments on why I'm going to damage something or kill myself "next time"..... :eek:

John, thanks for your reply. I agree with most of what you said with the exception of...

"I think, for the most part, since the axle U bolts support the axle/spring assembly at 70 MPH over potholes and gravel road ruts, that same assembly will support the partial weight on that axle in a "static mode" for enough time for me to do "what I have to do".... "

Unless I'm looking at it wrong (certainly possible), the U bolts don't support the axle/spring assembly. The weight of the trailer is pushing down on the spring assemblies which is sitting on top of the axles. Basically, the U bolts are there to hold everything in place. I would say though that if jacking the trailer up at the axle/U bolt junction, the bottle jack needs an adapter on top of the ram (cradle) to help spread the lifting over a larger area, rather than just the tip of the ram.

[xrated]

Safety-wise and ease of changing, most definitely jack on the end of the axle, right where the spring is mounted to the axle. Absolutely no reason to buy some "play-pretty" that some inventor came up with. Most seasoned RV'ers that I talk to simply pull the trailer up on four 2x10's with the good tire/axle
and change the tire. When you're done simply drive off.

The point is, those four 2x10's will give you approx. 6 inches of lift. The Rapid Jack will give you approx. 7-8" of lift. The Rapid lift is around $50 at Amazon (definitely more money than 4 pieces of 2x10 white pine), but the weight savings and space savings when you compare the two different items, make it worthwhile to me to use the Rapid Lift..........IF........That type of lifting will work on the type of trailer axles that I have, and that question still has not been answered.

[Outback 325BH]

When my camper is in tow, I have a small floor jack in the bed of the truck.

When I have to remove a wheel, I jack right under the u-bolts with a 2x4 between the axle and jack. Easy, peasy. Takes about 30 seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuckster57]

The few times I have had to change a tire with traffic whizzing by, I have used the jack under the hood of my truck, and lifted at the spring pack.

At work if we need to inspect one wheel, we use a floor jack and again lift the axle at the spring pack. FWIW, I would rather save the space I have for stuff I want to carry, and use the equipment that came with the TV for tire changes. I did change a rear truck tire with a 36' fiver still hitched up with a 2100 pound king pin.

[theeyres]

I can say without a doubt that you can make this issue go away with Anderson Rapid Jack. I don't have your rig but I have used it on mine and it works great. If you have two axles it will lift up one tire so you can remove it with no problem. Easiest solution you can find.

[JRTJH]

John, thanks for your reply. I agree with most of what you said with the exception of...

"I think, for the most part, since the axle U bolts support the axle/spring assembly at 70 MPH over potholes and gravel road ruts, that same assembly will support the partial weight on that axle in a "static mode" for enough time for me to do "what I have to do".... "

Unless I'm looking at it wrong (certainly possible), the U bolts don't support the axle/spring assembly. The weight of the trailer is pushing down on the spring assemblies which is sitting on top of the axles. Basically, the U bolts are there to hold everything in place. I would say though that if jacking the trailer up at the axle/U bolt junction, the bottle jack needs an adapter on top of the ram (cradle) to help spread the lifting over a larger area, rather than just the tip of the ram.

My take on it, and maybe I'm wrong, but..... I believe that when the axle is bouncing up and down in potholes and/or on a rutted road, the U bolts are being stressed both upward and downward with what is essentially the total weight that's on the specific wheel. The changing direction (G forces) at the ends of the spring travel likely are significantly greater than the actual weight that's on the U bolts when sitting still (static load). So, as the axle travels upward, the U Bolts apply one direction of force on the axle tube, when the axle travels downward, the U bolts apply force on the axle tube in the opposite direction....

So, in my "logic" (for whatever that's worth) jacking the axle with force on the U bolt can't apply more force (weight) than the axle sees from that same U bolt when in a "normal travel condition".....

As I said, maybe I'm wrong, but for 40+ years I've been jacking my trailers using the U bolts with never any problems with an axle (related to damage). Works for me, but maybe not for everyone...... :)

ADDED: Maybe another way to look at it is this, When a tire hits a pot hole or a rut in the road, the force "hammers" the axle downward, then upwards toward the springs with tremendous force. That force is, I believe, significantly greater than the force applied in a "static position" by the jack, assuming the jack applies that force to the U bolts, at the bottom of the axle

[xrated]

I can say without a doubt that you can make this issue go away with Anderson Rapid Jack. I don't have your rig but I have used it on mine and it works great. If you have two axles it will lift up one tire so you can remove it with no problem. Easiest solution you can find.

Earl, thank you for the response.......that sounds really encouraging and makes me hopeful.

[xrated]

John.....after reading your post #9 ^^^, it does make sense to me and I'd say you are probably right. I have a lot to learn with the RV lifestyle and realistically, I'm kind of happy that I've got several months (over the wintertime) to kind of work my way through some of these issues that I'm encountering instead of jumping right into it in the springtime when it's time to load the bikes up and head off to the racetrack and be mostly unprepared.

[ctbruce]

John.....after reading your post #9 ^^^, it does make sense to me and I'd say you are probably right. I have a lot to learn with the RV lifestyle and realistically, I'm kind of happy that I've got several months (over the wintertime) to kind of work my way through some of these issues that I'm encountering instead of jumping right into it in the springtime when it's time to load the bikes up and head off to the racetrack and be mostly unprepared.
X2. I don't think that there has been a time that I've taken my trailers out that I did not learn something new. What I've learned is that what I did at the time was right for me and that situation........but, there are other ways, some better and some worse, to do things. Spring cannot come soon enough to start learning some more stuff.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[xrated]

I'm with ya Chip, I absolutely hate winter.....that is one of the primary reasons I moved south 10+ years ago.

[xcntrk]

This is an easy one, you just lower the hydraulic jacks on that side "bouncey:



http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_218235_0_87c990593a41d18b301358cc62697099.jpg

[xrated]

This is an easy one, you just lower the hydraulic jacks on that side "bouncey:



http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_218240_0_87c990593a41d18b301358cc62697099.jpg

Very nice.....and if you would be so kind as to provide your address for me, I'd be more than happy to remove those " unsightly" appendages from your beautiful trailer. (tx)

[jsmith948]

Just put a jack under the axle at the u-bolts. Dexter's prohibition on jacking the axles has to do with some dummy at a tire shop jacking the trailer at the middle of the axle (which, of course, bends said axle).
No way would I try to jack a trailer by the frame. Way too high in the air, especially along the shoulder of the road or on soft, uneven ground.

[busterbrown]

Just put a jack under the axle at the u-bolts. Dexter's prohibition on jacking the axles has to do with some dummy at a tire shop jacking the trailer at the middle of the axle (which, of course, bends said axle).
No way would I try to jack a trailer by the frame. Way too high in the air, especially along the shoulder of the road or on soft, uneven ground.

I agree. My trailer is not nearly as heavy but still, I've removed the tires by placing a bottle jack under the u-bolts, one axle at a time. You're right, the static stresses on the axle at that lift point are minimal, especially when the adjacent axle is supporting much of the weight.

Using the frame, it would be a safety hazard with a bottle jack and a wood base on the road's shoulder.

[CWSWine]

This is an easy one, you just lower the hydraulic jacks on that side "bouncey:



I agree with you. If you are along side road with 18 wheelers going by rocking the 5er I won't even attempt to use a bottle jack. Last summer there is one in the shop with nice hole thought the floor and side when it fell after being rocked by 18 wheeler. I know a lot people say don't do it but when you use auto level watch the suspension and you will see that the suspension unload and it really just hanging off the 5er and the weights is on the jacks.

In the real world I have gotten to the point in my life that a phone call to Coach Net is much better solutions to changing a tire along side the road. :)

[xcntrk]

In all seriousness, I carry a bottle jack in my truck tool box which I attached a cradle head specifically for axle lifts. It's a fixed weld on unit and supports various axle sizes. Makes lifting with a bottle jack much safer, easier, and quicker. Not all my trailers have hydraulic lifts ;)



http://www.swagoffroad.com/assets/images/Bottle%20Jack%20Axle%20Cradle/bottle%20jack%20extention333.jpg (http://www.swagoffroad.com/Bottle-Jack-Axle-Cradle_p_66.html)

[jeff57]

I have one of these, which I haven't had to use on the road only in the driveway working on the bearings or rotating tires. Works great, is light weight and doesn't take up much space.

https://www.amazon.com/Trailer-Aid-Plus-Tandem-Changing/dp/B001V8UKBO?th=1

[chuckster57]

Just put a jack under the axle at the u-bolts. Dexter's prohibition on jacking the axles has to do with some dummy at a tire shop jacking the trailer at the middle of the axle (which, of course, bends said axle).

No way would I try to jack a trailer by the frame. Way too high in the air, especially along the shoulder of the road or on soft, uneven ground.



If you look at the axles, they have an arc in them from the factory, they aren't really straight. Lifting at the center can change the arc and throw things off.

[jsmith948]

If you look at the axles, they have an arc in them from the factory, they aren't really straight. Lifting at the center can change the arc and throw things off.
Well, that was my point. I have always jacked trailers under the axle at the point where the spring pad/u bolts attach to said axle. I was attempting to explain the reason ,IMHO, why the - oh forget it.

[Desert185]

Jacking the axle at the ubolt raises the axle by compressing the spring so the tire can be removed. One does not need to jack the trailer, especially when stopped precariously on a sloped shoulder of the road with vehicle wake turbulence hitting the trailer.

[CaptnJohn]

I have one of these, which I haven't had to use on the road only in the driveway working on the bearings or rotating tires. Works great, is light weight and doesn't take up much space.

https://www.amazon.com/Trailer-Aid-Plus-Tandem-Changing/dp/B001V8UKBO?th=1

Stated I was about to purchase and was told there are 2 versions. One certainly will not life a high framed 5er and the 'pro' version is iffy.

[CWSWine]

Stated I was about to purchase and was told there are 2 versions. One certainly will not life a high framed 5er and the 'pro' version is iffy.

I had a Pro Version and my MorRyde 4000 had 4 inches of movement and even with 2X6 under it the tire were still firmly planted on the ground. I ended up selling at a rally to guy with TT that work perfect on. I carried around for 6 months before I tried it just to see if would work.

[roadglide]

I use 3 inch channel. I cut the top off letting the bottom set on the axel then I welded short pipe in the middle for the jack screw. This is solid and releases the pressure along the axel.

[Jay Pat]

I used to carry the trailer aid. The first flat I had, I was in the bar ditch. The first time I tried to use it, the tire would not roll up on the T aid. It just pushed it.
I finally got the good tire up on some boards that I carry. I had to dig out the ground under the flat. Got the tire off. Had to dig more to get the spare on.
I still carry boards. I carry a reg bottle jack and a short bottle jack and a shovel.
A "regular" bottle jack will not get under an axle with a flat tire.
I got my short bottle jack from Northern Hydraulics. I think it is about 5"-6" tall.
Options! Always have options!
Good luck!
Pat