High Country 310RE

[geobet]

Anyone towing this unit with a 2013 Ram 2500 2x4 diesel? Got my target set on this one, a 2017 and checking it out tomorrow. Need answers/suggestions ASAP.

Cheers;

George

[sourdough]

Well, you've picked a nice trailer but it will be over what your truck is rated for in all probability. Your truck has a payload of about 2800lbs from what I can tell (inside your door will tell you the actual number). You didn't specify what type of tranny or size of bed but 2800 will be pretty close.

The 310RE has a dry pin weight of 2155. Fully loaded it will probably exceed the payload of your truck alone not to mention the hitch, people, cargo etc. It will PULL the load, but the truck isn't sprung to carry the load. It will likely look like so many I see with a 3/4 ton truck pulling a large 5th wheel and their headlights are pointed at the sky.

Payload....the Achilles heel of trucks and towing.

[Barbell]

We pulled a 3100RL with a 2500 2X4 CTD with air bags and Banks exhaust brake for three years with no problems. The air bags solve the problem of the rear sagging and the exhaust brake is a necessity for downhill and stopping. Total weight of truck, trailer, us and dogs was around 23,000. It can be done safely but I much prefer our current setup; 3500 dually CTD w/Aisan trans.

[Dave W]

We pull the longer/heavier 343RL with a Ford F250 diesel. By the @#$% yellow sticker we are over the 'designated' load by the weight police . In reality, my truck has a 12,100 pounds GCVW based on ACTUAL suspension part numbers. Without air bags, it's fine. With air bags, even better yet but it does have Ford's 5th wheel and camper options. To date, nary a problem at ~98,000 miles. Now with all that said, do I advocate explaining to those weight police why you don't have a bigger is better 350/3500 or more - nope? It is your call but at first look, your Cummins power will do fine but if doesn't have at least the heavier suspension option, you may suffer by checking out the owl population.

Oh and any Montana High Country - a great choice without going crazy on cost of a decent 5er

[sourdough]

We pull the longer/heavier 343RL with a Ford F250 diesel. By the @#$% yellow sticker we are over the 'designated' load by the weight police . In reality, my truck has a 12,100 pounds GCVW based on ACTUAL suspension part numbers. Without air bags, it's fine. With air bags, even better yet but it does have Ford's 5th wheel and camper options. To date, nary a problem at ~98,000 miles. Now with all that said, do I advocate explaining to those weight police why you don't have a bigger is better 350/3500 or more - nope? It is your call but at first look, your Cummins power will do fine but if doesn't have at least the heavier suspension option, you may suffer by checking out the owl population.

Oh and any Montana High Country - a great choice without going crazy on cost of a decent 5er


Weight police? I am assuming you are referring to my original post. When a new person is asking about a new truck/trailer combo that appears to exceed his max towing limits it is incumbent, and prudent, for someone to advise them of it so they will be aware, not tell them "hey buddy, if she'll get her rolling yer good to go!!" That's dangerous. What the individual does, after knowing the full set of circumstances, is up to them.

[Dave W]

Weight police? I am assuming you are referring to my original post. When a new person is asking about a new truck/trailer combo that appears to exceed his max towing limits it is incumbent, and prudent, for someone to advise them of it so they will be aware, not tell them "hey buddy, if she'll get her rolling yer good to go!!" That's dangerous. What the individual does, after knowing the full set of circumstances, is up to them.

If the shoe fits, by all means, wear it. But with that said, take a wander over to one of the other major RV sites and suggest anything less then an F350/3500 dually or F450 or GM/Ram of that size is bare minimum for any 5th wheel.

It thoroughly upsets me when someone without having a clue as to what someone else owns blindly says that his TV isn't capable of hauling 5er Brand X. I believe I made myself clear that the OP may not have enough truck, i.e. "..your Cummins power will do fine but if doesn't have at least the heavier suspension option, you may suffer by checking out the owl population".

'Nuff said by me. If others chime in, their prerogative

[CWSWine]

Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

[sourdough]

If the shoe fits, by all means, wear it. But with that said, take a wander over to one of the other major RV sites and suggest anything less then an F350/3500 dually or F450 or GM/Ram of that size is bare minimum for any 5th wheel.

It thoroughly upsets me when someone without having a clue as to what someone else owns blindly says that his TV isn't capable of hauling 5er Brand X. I believe I made myself clear that the OP may not have enough truck, i.e. "..your Cummins power will do fine but if doesn't have at least the heavier suspension option, you may suffer by checking out the owl population".

'Nuff said by me. If others chime in, their prerogative

OP gave truck and trailer combo. Not much to dig up the specs and go from there. So, I do have a "clue" to trying to advise vs "forget the ^%$#& weighting limits on the door".... which upsets me as well. Suggestions are not made "blindly".

[kfxgreenie]

OP gave truck and trailer combo. Not much to dig up the specs and go from there. So, I do have a "clue" to trying to advise vs "forget the ^%$#& weighting limits on the door".... which upsets me as well. Suggestions are not made "blindly".

forget the ^%$#& payload on the door its a 3/4 ton!

Everyone knows that is just a # to make the tax man and big brother happy your not "commercial" running a 3/4 ton truck.

There fixed it for you. :D

[JRTJH]

forget the ^%$#& payload on the door its a 3/4 ton!

Everyone knows that is just a # to make the tax man and big brother happy your not "commercial" running a 3/4 ton truck.

There fixed it for you. :D

Sort of like buying a "SMALL GAME LICENSE" and going "DEER HUNTING". You don't have the license for what you're hunting just like you don't have the "capacity" for what you're towing. Don't get upset or blame "them" when you get caught cheating. The "advantage of lower ratings" was implemented for those owner/operators who don't require the higher ratings (and in many situations don't have to pay higher fees). It was not implemented as a means for someone to "buy cheap, license low and load/tow heavy". There's a substantial insurance reduction that I enjoy by having a 3/4 ton truck (as opposed to a one ton). For me to have the above "attitude" would be cheating not only those who pay "their full share" of road repair taxes/fees, but also those who pay the increased premiums for properly insuring and registering their vehicle.

Poaching is not ethical just like towing without paying your fair share of taxes/fees/licenses is not ethical. There's nothing "legal" about cheating the system whether it's "hunting without a license" or "ignoring the payload" on your truck. Sooner or later states are going to realize there's a "substantial cash cow" in fines, inspections and penalties to be made. When that happens and we all are faced with added enforcement, you can thank the "towing poachers" who cheated the system for all those years for the added burden.

[kfxgreenie]

Sort of like buying a "SMALL GAME LICENSE" and going "DEER HUNTING". You don't have the license for what you're hunting just like you don't have the "capacity" for what you're towing. Don't get upset or blame "them" when you get caught cheating. The "advantage of lower ratings" was implemented for those owner/operators who don't require the higher ratings (and in many situations don't have to pay higher fees). It was not implemented as a means for someone to "buy cheap, license low and load/tow heavy". There's a substantial insurance reduction that I enjoy by having a 3/4 ton truck (as opposed to a one ton). For me to have the above "attitude" would be cheating not only those who pay "their full share" of road repair taxes/fees, but also those who pay the increased premiums for properly insuring and registering their vehicle.

Poaching is not ethical just like towing without paying your fair share of taxes/fees/licenses is not ethical. There's nothing "legal" about cheating the system whether it's "hunting without a license" or "ignoring the payload" on your truck. Sooner or later states are going to realize there's a "substantial cash cow" in fines, inspections and penalties to be made. When that happens and we all are faced with added enforcement, you can thank the "towing poachers" who cheated the system for all those years for the added burden.

I hope it does happen and the "towing poachers" trucks are rated for how they can perform not some bulllll**** made up number and "taxed" alike.

At the end of the day the other difference is most RV's are pulled for recreation not for commercial purposes and the "taxes" should also be classified differently based on use. I'm all for weighing every vehicle towing a trailer period.

[chuckster57]

I'm not involved in any "commerce" but I have commercial plates, not passenger vehicle plates.

[kfxgreenie]

I'm not involved in any "commerce" but I have commercial plates, not passenger vehicle plates.

Yes but are you not in the communist state of California? Should there not be a federal standard on licensing so there is no confusion state to state like exist today?

[JRTJH]

Yes but are you not in the communist state of California? Should there not be a federal standard on licensing so there is no confusion state to state like exist today?

Please read post #4 and post #9 here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...hlight=license

Many people only see "rules that apply to their state" and forget that what applies to them can be entirely different just "one town away" ..... It's not "just California" as you'll see by reading the above posts.

[kfxgreenie]

Please read post #4 and post #9 here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...hlight=license

Many people only see "rules that apply to their state" and forget that what applies to them can be entirely different just "one town away" ..... It's not "just California" as you'll see by reading the above posts.

Linky no worky.

[JRTJH]

Linky no worky.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25359&highlight=license

[geobet]

Hey guys, didn't mean to cause a fuss on the forum - I'm the original poster. Don't want to bore you with all the details but my truck is a 2013 Ram, long bed, 3:42 rears, 6 speed auto, extra leaf spring (which actually makes it a one ton). Even the Keystone website notes that the High Country is suited for a 3/4 ton truck.

Anyway, I bought the High Country 310RE and even the sales person checked the listing in Trailer Life for 2013 he said I couldn't pull it. Trailer Life says I can only pull 10,000. Say what @#@!!. Come on! Really??? I had pulled a copy of the 2500 Ram listing from none other than Rams own website that says differently - in every aspect. Take that salesperson!!!!

I know I'll be riding the edge on the loaded pin weight but, I've already added an extra leaf spring as well as Firestone Ride Rite air bags to counteract any potential sag. I've been towing for over 40 years with every type of trailer from livestock to RVs and feel confident that my set up will handle the High Country. I just wanted to know if anyone else has the same setup - didn't mean to start a skirmish.

Cheers:

George

[Banjopicks]

I know I'll be riding the edge on the loaded pin weight but, I've already added an extra leaf spring as well as Firestone Ride Rite air bags to counteract any potential sag. I've been towing for over 40 years with every type of trailer from livestock to RVs and feel confident that my set up will handle the High Country. I just wanted to know if anyone else has the same setup - didn't mean to start a skirmish.

Cheers:

George
Curious what the cost was for those upgrades? I certainly don't want a one ton for everyday driving.

[geobet]

Banjopicks:

I just assuming you also have a 3/4 ton also. The cost for the bags and leaf spring not counting the new hitch was south of $500. I do all my own mechanical work so I installed them myself.

In my case with a 2013 ram 2500 the only difference between the 3/4 and one ton was one leaf spring. Both chassis, tranny, engine, suspension and such are identical for 2013. I agree with you about not wanting a one ton. My last two Rams were 3500 duallys. Parking spaces aren't wide enough and who wants to deal with 6 tires. Besides, after doing tons of research, and given the fact that my 2500 is paid for, figured I'd tweak up what I have rather than sink another 60 grand into a truck just to haul the High Country.

Congrats and Good luck with your High Country.

Cheers:

George

[Banjopicks]

Thank you very much. I'm going to consider this!

[CaptnJohn]

Curious what the cost was for those upgrades? I certainly don't want a one ton for everyday driving.

I traded a 2016 F250 in on a 2016 F350. I see no difference in ride pulling and no difference in ride if only the 5er hitch is in the bed. I suspect by the time you add all the stuff to make you feel good towing illegally the ride will be worse than stock. Additionally, $500 plus labor or time when the difference in new prices is in that same range. Often, a 350 can be purchased for less than a 250. In the area I live 3/4 tons are much more popular than 1 tons but the exact opposite where my daughter lives.

I would like to see states getting together and coming out with a $10 annual sticker. Every TT, 5er, and MH would be pulled to the scales weighed and checked for payload overload. The fines would make the states millions. Everyone on the road would be safer.

[JRTJH]

I traded a 2016 F250 in on a 2016 F350. I see no difference in ride pulling and no difference in ride if only the 5er hitch is in the bed. I suspect by the time you add all the stuff to make you feel good towing illegally the ride will be worse than stock. Additionally, $500 plus labor or time when the difference in new prices is in that same range. Often, a 350 can be purchased for less than a 250. In the area I live 3/4 tons are much more popular than 1 tons but the exact opposite where my daughter lives.

I would like to see states getting together and coming out with a $10 annual sticker. Every TT, 5er, and MH would be pulled to the scales weighed and checked for payload overload. The fines would make the states millions. Everyone on the road would be safer.

When there were "only a few" people towing overloaded, there really wasn't enough justification to spend large sums of taxpayer money to enforce a "problem" that wasn't that frequent. Now that more and more people are turning to RVing, the number of people towing larger trailers with smaller vehicles is growing. We're on the "verge of someone screaming foul" that works in a position where they can't be ignored. As one member said several months ago, "It'll change when a senator's family is hurt in an accident with an overloaded RV." I don't know if it will go that far or not, but it's inevitable that states are going to start enforcing weight restrictions. If for no other reason, to increase their tax revenue for road repair.

Looking at recent offerings from Keystone, you can't buy a "current model" Cougar less than 37' long with a "loaded pin weight" that will be greater than 2200 pounds. That puts all "new Cougars" out of the 3/4 ton truck capability (if you include a sliding hitch and a family of 4). Once people can "only buy big trailers" the F250/2500 trucks are going to "fade away for RV use". It will be very simple for law enforcement to check, just by reading the label on the side of a truck, pull it over for "random weight check" and take appropriate action.

So many people currently own "smaller vehicles" because of recent past costs associated with fuel. Now that we're out of that "fuel crisis" they are looking to buy an RV. So, why not get the "biggest we can afford" with little concern for what we have to pull it with.....

Certainly not everyone falls into this kind of thinking, but the "unknowing, new buyer" who listens to the salesman is particularly subject to being "sold down the river"..... Once they do experience towing with an underpowered, overweight vehicle (and accept that as the way things are supposed to be), the pattern perpetuates itself with their future purchases. Until that cycle is broken, they honestly believe all RV's are supposed to tow "like theirs does" and they accept that bad towing as "normal" for RV's....

It's unfortunate, but I suppose "government intervention" (I hate that terminology) is going to "fix it for us" (or make it so much worse that none of us can RV any more)........

[Tbos]

I hope we don't get to the point where the government, state or federal, have to mandate weighing our rigs. I'd like to see the users, manufacturers and dealers take this seriously. If the dealers would take a serious look at the TV and its capacity I think most people would still buy but maybe something smaller than planned. Then when they upgrade the TV they'll eventually upgrade the TT too. Overall everyone would be safer and there might be more rigs sold.
I for one am very grateful for forums like this to educate us. I'm considering an upgrade of TV to a 350/3500 and TT to 5er we can live in full time. Looking at the dry pin weights on some of the Montanas I wonder how they are within the weight limitations of the current crop of 1 ton trucks. I've looked at the GM and Ford trailering guides and they don't list pin weight capacity. Just towing and GCWR. What I haven't done is look on a 350/3500 door sticker. That might help relieve some fears.


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[geobet]

I'm the original poster.

This discussion, as expected, has digressed into a plethora of self anointed "weight police" comments and shameful scare tactics. Come on guys. Shouldn't you be out camping or something? Get a life. You've made your points at nausium. ENOUGH already! Most of your responses missed my point for the original post by a mile. I didn't ask for opinions or lectures, advice or any pulpit beating, hell-fire belching self appointed do-gooders to redirect my post into a sermon about weights and consequences.

As an ex-OTR trucker with over a million accident free miles. I have a class A CDL with all endorsements and am well aware of weights. And, I've never been fined for being overweight!!!

What you may not be aware of is that the truck manufacturers have engineers to certify test results of loading, stress and such. However, before these results go to press - guess who has to issue the final bless off? Pencil neck, paper flipping lawyers who've never turned a wrench in their lives and wouldn't know which end of a screwdriver to use. Fudge factors are built into the final product to stave off litigation. Believe it!

My Ram 2500 is rated, by Ram Trucks website and my original build sheet, to tow 17,550# with a payload of 2920#. The HIgh Country GVW and pin weight are within that margin. And, no I don't haul heavy - no full tanks, no junk I don't absolutely need. I leave the house at home.

I have the same chassis, frame, tranny, engine, yada, yada, yada,,,,,as a Ram 3500! In 2013, the only, let me repeat that...the ONLY difference between the two trucks is that the 3500 has an extra rear leaf in the spring pack. So, you self anointed weight police, take that and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

I belong to several forums, dare I say ones that are much more civil and less preachy, and if this is any indication of what can be expected on the Keystone forum - I'm outta here!!! Where the heck is the forum monitor? Is there one? Someone needs to police these posts and keep them on target and to the point.

Cheers:

George

[JRTJH]

Since the OP has stated that he has the information he requires and feels the thread has detoured off his intended track, he states he has the comments he needs, and will seek information on other forums, so before it becomes any more negative than it is, the thread is closed.