Trailer weight & vehicle tow capacity

[GCL12377]

Looking at an untralite travel trailer, Passport 238. The listed dry weight is roughly 3800 lbs. the cargo weight is roughly 1600 lbs. I'll be towing with an AWD Honda Pilot with a max tow weight if 5000 lbs. Can someone break this down for me so I don't buy something that's too heavy for my vehicle to tow. Thanks!

[Desert185]

You should probably consider a trailer with a dry weight not more than 3000-3500# in order to keep the GW under 5,000#.

Here's a list of Airstreams as a point of reference. Perhaps a used/vintage trailer is in your future. We have a vintage Caveman for sale that is pretty light. Check your local area for some options.

https://www.airstream.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Trailer-Motorhome-Weights.pdf

[slow]

Check your Pilot's owner's manual. Available online if you no longer have a hard copy They do a good job breaking down your TT towing capacity based on number of occupants. You will quickly realize that the Pilot's towing ability do not meet the requirements for the Passport 238.

Another consideration as Desert points out is TT frontal area. The 60+ square feet of frontal area on the 238 = high wind resistance = high required hp. The 238 is just too much "wind sail" for a Pilot that needs to rev to make power. Pilots and vehicles of similar class are typically limited to a frontal area of 35 sq ft for this reason.

BTW: You did good by asking before buying.

[bsmith0404]

What everyone else has said. In addition, do you have the tow package on the Pilot? As someone who worked at a Honda dealership, I can tell you that unless you have the factory tow package which includes a larger transmission cooler as well as a few other things (I believe an oil cooler), adding a hitch and towing heavy will void warranty on the transmission. Without the factory tow package, I believe the max tow of the Pilot is 3k lbs.

[Desert185]

As much as a I enjoy voiding warranties, its alway done in a manner that protects or enhances the mechanics of the machine. Excellent point on the tow package.

Whatever the OP does, tow package or not, I would initiate an accelerated program of changing the transmission fluid with the latest formulation of recommended ATF. Neglecting the condition of the ATF in a vehicle like that, especially when pulling a trailer, spells short transmission life. Stop and go, particularly in a hot environment, with a lot of shifting can reduce transmission life, too. Watch the ATF color and keep it changed. Some of those Japanese transmissions don't have filters, so draining and a refill is especially important on a regular basis. I drain and replace every other oil change on the wife's car. Four qts every 15,000 miles for a fluid 'change' every 30,000 miles. Still shifts like it was new.

[BirchyBoy]

When we were pulling our 238ML from CO to ME, we were passed on the interstate by a Honda Pilot with two adults and two kids and a 238ML in tow. At the time, I was pulling with an older 5.7l Yukon. I remember thinking that there was no way that Pilot wasn't overloaded. I saw them down the road a bit later and stopped to see if they needed help. Nope, they had stopped for someone to use the bathroom. So, they had water in the tank, which is under the bed and near the tongue. There's no way that Pilot wasn't WAY beyond it's capabilities!

[notanlines]

GCL, what they ^^^^^all said. What you're suggesting is not just a little beyond reasonable, but WAY beyond. Just the idea of that towing with a Pilot made me cringe. If you were just towing it to a campsite 40 miles from home I wouldn't give it much thought, but the idea that you might take your kids to Virginia or to New Hampshire for let's say spring break is way on out there. And yes, kudos to you for looking into it on the front end!

[Tbos]

FYI, I owned a 238ML and was towing with a 2013 Sierra with a 4.8 V8 and 3:23 rear end and when both were loaded for a trip I exceeded the trucks Combined Gross Weight Rating (CGWR) of 10,000 lbs. I hope you find something that suits your needs. You won't be the first person to buy a new tow vehicle so they could tow what they haven't bought yet.

[Model A Driver]

I have always used the 20% rule. What ever the dry weight of your trailer is plus people, water, and other things added- there should be 20% between that sum and the rate on your truck. I think you are maxed. Plus remember that aspirated engines lose 3% efficiency for every 1000 ft above sea level. You can also be held liable for overloading a tow vehicle in the case of an accident.
My last F150 had a 8300lb max towing rate- my trailer weighs 5050 and all other weight bring that to 6700. So I had roughly 20% but it died in the mountains anyway. I fixed that earlier this month.
Hope this helps.
:banghead:

[fourfourto]

[QUOTE=Desert185;214176]You should probably consider a trailer with a dry weight not more than 3000-3500# in order to keep the GW under 5,000#.

I agree
my trailer is 3225 + 500 cargo (including big battery + propane tank) + full tank H20 + water heater apx 300 lbs =4025 add 2 bikes on bed 35lbs each = 4100lbs and you have some wiggle room for extra cargo ect
that should work for the pilot

Keystone has some light weight springdale summerlands that come in at 3225.
I have the 2017 1750rd ( inexpensive) pail $11,500 5/16 very roomy tows well only use a friction sway bar I put on 2000 miles this summer no sway average 60 65 mph had it up to 75 80 for a test and was smooth.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=Desert185;214176]You should probably consider a trailer with a dry weight not more than 3000-3500# in order to keep the GW under 5,000#.

I agree
my trailer is 3225 + 500 cargo (including big battery + propane tank) + full tank H20 + water heater apx 300 lbs =4025 add 2 bikes on bed 35lbs each = 4100lbs and you have some wiggle room for extra cargo ect
that should work for the pilot

Keystone has some light weight springdale summerlands that come in at 3225.
I have the 2017 1750rd ( inexpensive) pail $11,500 5/16 very roomy tows well only use a friction sway bar I put on 2000 miles this summer no sway average 60 65 mph had it up to 75 80 for a test and was smooth.

75-80 pulling a travel trailer...with a 2006 H3?? I owned one for 4 years. Unless you have the Alpha you would have had a hard time going 75-80 period. Sorry, just had to point that out.

[sourdough]

Looking at an untralite travel trailer, Passport 238. The listed dry weight is roughly 3800 lbs. the cargo weight is roughly 1600 lbs. I'll be towing with an AWD Honda Pilot with a max tow weight if 5000 lbs. Can someone break this down for me so I don't buy something that's too heavy for my vehicle to tow. Thanks!

Your original post tells you what you need to know; max trailer weight = 5400 lbs. Max tow weight = 5000 lbs. It shouldn't be a conversation if you are worried about it. Plus, a Honda Pilot for a TV? Their trucks can't pull anything but a Pilot??

[fourfourto]

[QUOTE=fourfourto;214536]

75-80 pulling a travel trailer...with a 2006 H3?? I owned one for 4 years. Unless you have the Alpha you would have had a hard time going 75-80 period. Sorry, just had to point that out.

Put 25,000 towing a 189fbs funfinder. No problem at 80mph I don't normally run it that fast ,. can do 70 all day out west.
I do have trouble on the long hills have to get down to 50 it wants to drop to
2nd gear any faster .

without towing had it up to 98mph again a test theres a lock out with the computer cant go any faster, don't want to its a brick

[bsmith0404]

Your original post tells you what you need to know; max trailer weight = 5400 lbs. Max tow weight = 5000 lbs. It shouldn't be a conversation if you are worried about it. Plus, a Honda Pilot for a TV? Their trucks can't pull anything but a Pilot??

The Honda Ridgeline is nothing more than a Pilot with a box. They're basically built on the same chassis with the same powertrain.

[Tbos]

[QUOTE=sourdough;214626]



Put 25,000 towing a 189fbs funfinder. No problem at 80mph I don't normally run it that fast ,. can do 70 all day out west.

I do have trouble on the long hills have to get down to 50 it wants to drop to

2nd gear any faster .



without towing had it up to 98mph again a test theres a lock out with the computer cant go any faster, don't want to its a brick



Your TT tires aren't rated to go that fast. You are flirting with a blow out at that speed.

[fourfourto]

*80 was a test to see how it handled.i don't have a death wish :eek:

usually 60/65 tops don't like going 70 or over with the 1 axle trailer.

my parents had a 06 pilot as a tv had the upgrades like trans cooler ect with a lightweight 3,200 lb dry trailer and drove up and down the whole county no problems.

[Mandolin]

As an example of where you get from where you start - trailer dry 4,580, trailer loaded probably 5,200.

We ran over the scales this last week, fully loaded (or as fully loaded as we get, because we don't tend to travel with anything in the tanks - if we need to add water, we do it as close to camp as possible). This includes all the people, food, clothing, camping junk and, most important, the dog and her 2 dogs beds.

Our 2013 F150 has a tow rating of 8200 lb, carrying capacity 2370 lb. Our trailer dry weight is 4,580 lb (including empty dual propane tanks, no battery).
Over the scale we were
front axle: 3350 (rated max 3700)
rear axle: 3550 (rated max 3850)
trlr axle: 4700 lb.

I'd say the tongue weight is between 10-12%, so that means are trailer is right around 5,200, meaning we have a little over 600 lbs of added junk in the trailer. In the bed of the truck we had the bicycles, a full cooler of ice and various beverages, some firewood (we weren't traveling out of our forest zone, so we weren't worried about bringing in outside pests), extra chairs.

We are right at the "windage max", the only rating I think we are pushing.

So we are comfortably below all of our ratings, which got a big sigh of relief. It tows as though we have a big safety margin and we have been over some 7% + grades. Sure, it downshifts quite a bit.

We tend to stick fairly close to speed limits (55 while towing in Oregon and California), maybe pushing 60-65 on the flats.

[SAABDOCTOR]

[QUOTE=sourdough;214626]

Put 25,000 towing a 189fbs funfinder. No problem at 80mph I don't normally run it that fast ,. can do 70 all day out west.
I do have trouble on the long hills have to get down to 50 it wants to drop to
2nd gear any faster .

without towing had it up to 98mph again a test theres a lock out with the computer cant go any faster, don't want to its a brick CAN YOU POST A PICTURE OF YOUR RIG SO I CAN STAY OUT OF YOUR WAY WHEN YOU GO THAT FAST ON TRAILER TIRES! I WANT TO MAKE IT TO RETIREMENT. THANKS

[fourfourto]

[QUOTE=fourfourto;214662] CAN YOU POST A PICTURE OF YOUR RIG SO I CAN STAY OUT OF YOUR WAY WHEN YOU GO THAT FAST ON TRAILER TIRES! I WANT TO MAKE IT TO RETIREMENT. THANKS

I said it was a test... under controlled circumstances:banghead:
you know no winds, other vehicles ,flat smooth long road



I usually run 60 65 if no winds and open road,downhill to gain momentum
what do you run ?


BTW I been teaching driving at several local HS for 21 years Taught thousands of young adults . most pass rt first time
I tow safe.:cool: I see all the idiots out there :eek:

now if you run into me driving my 68 442 that's a different story LOL

[linux3]

Interesting, the 238 is not much heavier than a 195.
Gotta love that Murphy bed.
What year Honda Pilot? The new design 2016 and up are not really set up for towing, you have to add a bunch of stuff.

Hitch weight on the 238 is too high, don't forget a load leveling hitch (mine) adds 80 lbs. Your max is 500.

We never dry camp so I don't have any water in the TT that keeps weight down.

As for frontal area. My TT is 8' wide and 10' tall but it's not 8 X 10 = 80 sq/ft.
The TT is on wheels (air passes under it) AND is kinda streamlined.
The effective drag is way less.

And happy hunting to you. Looking for the perfect unit is fun.

[CWtheMan]

Looking at an untralite travel trailer, Passport 238. The listed dry weight is roughly 3800 lbs. the cargo weight is roughly 1600 lbs. I'll be towing with an AWD Honda Pilot with a max tow weight if 5000 lbs. Can someone break this down for me so I don't buy something that's too heavy for my vehicle to tow. Thanks!

The GVWR for that trailer is 5400#. Chances are you will go over your Pilots' limitations.

[linux3]

The GVWR for that trailer is 5400#. Chances are you will go over your Pilots' limitations.
Does anyone really load a TT to GVWR?
Grey and black water tanks empty and no fresh water. I doubt if clothes and food weigh all that much.
The problem here is tongue weight.

[Javi]

Does anyone really load a TT to GVWR?
Grey and black water tanks empty and no fresh water. I doubt if clothes and food weigh all that much.
The problem here is tongue weight.

You will be very, very surprised at how quickly the weight adds up..

[busterbrown]

You will be very, very surprised at how quickly the weight adds up..

...especially if you fill your fresh water tank to capacity and it is mounted in the front of the trailer. Each gallon weighs in at 8.36 lbs.

[JRTJH]

Does anyone really load a TT to GVWR?
Grey and black water tanks empty and no fresh water. I doubt if clothes and food weigh all that much.
The problem here is tongue weight.

Along with clothes and food, you need to consider the grill, tools, hoses and extension cords, electrical adapters for plugging in the trailer, flash lights/lanterns, folding chairs, sheets, towels, dishes, pots and pans, fishing equipment, chocks/X-chocks, radio, TV, wooden blocks, bikes, trikes, cornhole game, shovel, rake, ladder, awning stakes, weight distribution hitch, battery and propane (not tanks) that are not included in the "empty weight", books, magazines, soap/toiletries, toilet paper/paper towels, chemicals for black tank, rugs/awning mats, outside tables, picnic supplies, spare parts for trailer/truck/equipment, etc.... The list goes on and on, well beyond "clothes and food"............

[Desert185]

What the heck is a cornhole game?

[gearhead]

Along with clothes and food, you need to consider the grill, tools, hoses and extension cords, electrical adapters for plugging in the trailer, flash lights/lanterns, folding chairs, sheets, towels, dishes, pots and pans, fishing equipment, chocks/X-chocks, radio, TV, wooden blocks, bikes, trikes, cornhole game, shovel, rake, ladder, awning stakes, weight distribution hitch, battery and propane (not tanks) that are not included in the "empty weight", books, magazines, soap/toiletries, toilet paper/paper towels, chemicals for black tank, rugs/awning mats, outside tables, picnic supplies, spare parts for trailer/truck/equipment, etc.... The list goes on and on, well beyond "clothes and food"............

and her "28 PAIRS OF SHOES".

[gearhead]

What the heck is a cornhole game?
Uh....you get a piece of plywood about 3ft x 3ft and drill about a 6inch hole in it. Tilt it at an angle off the ground. Then try to throw a bag of corn through the hole.
It helps if you're at a NASCAR race and have plenty of adult beverages.

[Tbos]

I run about 1/3 of fresh water for emergencies. Depending on how you load the TT will depend on how your tongue weight changes. It is supposed to be heavier so you TT tows right. I count on about 1000 lbs extra when we are fully loaded. That is based on actual weights from a trip this summer. FYI, Corn hole can be fun without the adult beverages too.

[CaptnJohn]

Just my wife and I plus a small dog now We add about 1000# on the snowbird trip. When our 2 daughters were going along the total was substantially for 7 - 10 days! Don't tell my wife we still have over 1000# before max weight or she will find more 'stuff'.

[JRTJH]

What the heck is a cornhole game?

Essentially it's a "spin-off" of horseshoes that's played with "plywood pits" and corn filled "bean bags" that replace the "iron stakes and horseshoes".

Here's one source: http://cornholeworldwide.com/?gclid=CMKY-ffJz9ACFQQpaQodcOcMvQ

It's "all the rage" in the Midwest and we're beginning to see it more and more in many other places that we've travelled the past couple of years. Around here, everyone has a "cornhole set" and few still have the "dug out pits" to play horseshoes.

Plus, it hurts a heck of a lot less" to get hit with a cornhole bag than it does to walk in front of a horseshoe in "mid flight"..... Saves on the medical bills which means "more for adult beverages" :D

[Javi]

Washers...