crowded colorado

[BOWWOW]

W e have been all over Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho and Montana this year and we have noticed so many more people and campers of all sorts. So many homeless camping everywhere around Denver and other places in the state. Some of our new population is due to the legalization of pot, some due to new jobs. We have " the great southern migration" every spring. We watch the news to see which town had a shooting today. It's ridiculous here anymore. More times than not we couldn't find a reservation, or we had to camp way off road. The campers are selling like crazy but there are no more campsites being built around here. Now Cottonwood pass is going to be paved, flatter and straighter. This will flood the west side even more.
Has anyone else noticed this in Colorado?

[gearhead]

Yep, noticed it around Pagosa Springs. Seems everything is for sale and Californians are buying it. From about 1978 watched it grow, grow, grow.

[Steve S]

That doesn't sound like fun camping at all:( Why would there be shootings at campgrounds:confused::eek:

[sourdough]

It's happening. Most from CA from what we've determined. We travel all over the state and I've visited with many of the CA residents as well of tons of CO residents, business owners. Unfortunately their idea of the CO I've visited and stayed in for over 50 years is a far cry from what it used to be (not a knock on all CA residents - just those that are "out there").

Pot. It is a big problem. Drugged out homeless folks are increasing exponentially. That's what you get with that kind of regulatory mentality. I now try to stay as far away from places where people congregate. If I have to be in a crowded place I'm always armed. I still love the state at this point but as the infestation continues I will probably have to find another favorite state.

[CaptnJohn]

"Drugged out homeless folks are increasing exponentially." ~~ was that and an increase in crime not expected? The talk out east was CO was turning the entire state into the same as a bad section of a town.

[sourdough]

"Drugged out homeless folks are increasing exponentially." ~~ was that and an increase in crime not expected? The talk out east was CO was turning the entire state into the same as a bad section of a town.


Yes, they have effectively done that from what I see. You just have to try to find the "good sections" if you can. We love the mountains and cool weather, but we have a vacation home at 9000' in NM so CO isn't a must for us. We also love the FL panhandle (our daughter lives there) and we absolutely see nothing like you now see in CO; we just don't like the heat and humidity.....but we love the seafood!!

[bartbill]

The Denver is now Los Angeles East-in every way. The I-25 corridor from Colorado Spring to Fort Collins is an impacted colon of stalled cars, stop and go traffic, wrecks and foul-smelling haze.

Just breaks my heart.

[CaptnJohn]

Yes, they have effectively done that from what I see. You just have to try to find the "good sections" if you can. We love the mountains and cool weather, but we have a vacation home at 9000' in NM so CO isn't a must for us. We also love the FL panhandle (our daughter lives there) and we absolutely see nothing like you now see in CO; we just don't like the heat and humidity.....but we love the seafood!!


I left Ohio to get away from the cold. After 2 years in SE Asia I want 4 seasons, just subtle, not stupid changes. It gets "Yankee Cool" here and we may see an inch of snow once every 2 or 3 years for 3 or 4 hours.
At least one company moved to SC and a couple more planned on moving to the Carolinas from CO since the change in the law there, so was written in the paper a while back.

[Dave W]

We drove through Manitou Springs about 6 weeks ago and was not impressed by the street people hanging around. Then there were the "recreational" pot stores in town. Years back I wanted to move to CO if my company had an opening. No longer. The West side isn't as bad and still has some good things happening but the traffic and sheer numbers of people in Durango was unexplainable.

[BOWWOW]

WOW! So it's just not me seeing this. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some form of legal pot in 1 or 2 other states like Washington? If so are there similar cases there? I realize that the recreational form of pot sales is the major problem. Yes crime is up, it's an all cash business, the federal government wont back the store owners at the banks. I really like the weather in Colorado but, 100,000 citizens are moving here every year, and a good amount for the wrong reasons. I'm on the west side but you can see it even in small towns all over the state. Once again we are looking at a place in Costa Rica. Future Expat, maybe.

[Dave W]

Once again we are looking at a place in Costa Rica. Future Expat, maybe.

Make sure that Costa Rica hasn't been overrun by expats before you make that commitment. Years back it had way too many when I was going there on business. I was thinking New Zealand or Tasmania might be a good move plus the language is the Queen's own English, not Spanish as mine just ain't that good:D

[sourdough]

WOW! So it's just not me seeing this. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some form of legal pot in 1 or 2 other states like Washington? If so are there similar cases there? I realize that the recreational form of pot sales is the major problem. Yes crime is up, it's an all cash business, the federal government wont back the store owners at the banks. I really like the weather in Colorado but, 100,000 citizens are moving here every year, and a good amount for the wrong reasons. I'm on the west side but you can see it even in small towns all over the state. Once again we are looking at a place in Costa Rica. Future Expat, maybe.

A friend of mine suggested Panama and in fact bought 2 homes there. My kids love Costa Rica. As I told them all; "I'm a W TX country boy. I like this country and there are lots of places left for me to see or move to so don't think I'm inclined to become an expat unless things really go belly up here". Of course, things ARE on a quick downhill slide at the moment.

The W side, or S, used to be the place to be in CO until the last few years. I used to love Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park, Estes Park, Ft Collins etc. but don't go there anymore (well, maybe for a quick drive through). I still love Pagosa but it seems it's changing daily and Durango has now almost become unbearable. Ahhh, for 1970 again! Sigh.

[Desert185]

I used to go to Denver for business purposes. Its a traffic nightmare. Pagosa Springs and Durango are also too crowded for me. Montrose was my favorite, but I haven't been there since 2009-2010.

Took a trip to Kansas from Nevada a couple years ago. I carry concealed. No problem in NV, UT and KS, but had to put it away in CO like I do in CA and OR. Not a comfy feeling in states with incorrectly permissive, sanctuary, gun free environments. The problem isn't with the good guys, its with the bad guys.

[gearhead]

I was trying to remember when we were last in Pagosa & Durango. It's been quite awhile, so I imagine it has changed exponentially (dang big word for me).
My sister just built a vacation home in Angel Fire NM and we're expecting to visit there next August. Likely go on to Pagosa or Vallecito after that. So we will get refreshed on how much it's grown. Is the Hub burger joint still there in Pagosa??
I was in Bellingham WA a couple years ago doing some inspection work for the doomed Arctic drilling program. Neat small town with a college, so seeing a few free spirits wasn't unusual. I saw a couple little shops that had "SEEDS" on the storefront. It took me a bit to realize they weren't referring to watermelon, mustard greens, and okra seeds.

[sourdough]

I was trying to remember when we were last in Pagosa & Durango. It's been quite awhile, so I imagine it has changed exponentially (dang big word for me).
My sister just built a vacation home in Angel Fire NM and we're expecting to visit there next August. Likely go on to Pagosa or Vallecito after that. So we will get refreshed on how much it's grown. Is the Hub burger joint still there in Pagosa??
I was in Bellingham WA a couple years ago doing some inspection work for the doomed Arctic drilling program. Neat small town with a college, so seeing a few free spirits wasn't unusual. I saw a couple little shops that had "SEEDS" on the storefront. It took me a bit to realize they weren't referring to watermelon, mustard greens, and okra seeds.

Be sure and take anything you really like when going to Angel Fire. Amenities are few and far between there, but it is pretty. While there take the loop from Angel Fire, to Eagles Nest, Taos and back. It's pretty. When in Eagles Nest drive up the mountain toward Cimarron (hwy 64?). When you get to the top just turn around and come over the mountain like you're coming in from Cimarron. The view as you come out over the lake is very nice.

I'm not familiar with the Hub burger joint. Was it in town? On 160?

[Desert185]

http://hub-dairy-creame.pagosa-springs.co.amfibi.directory/us/c/12606298-hub-dairy-creame

[sourdough]

http://hub-dairy-creame.pagosa-springs.co.amfibi.directory/us/c/12606298-hub-dairy-creame

This is way out past Echo Lake. I don't go out there to eat (I do go to Echo Lake a lot to fish) so I've not seen it.

[BOWWOW]

Make sure that Costa Rica hasn't been overrun by expats before you make that commitment. Years back it had way too many when I was going there on business. I was thinking New Zealand or Tasmania might be a good move plus the language is the Queen's own English, not Spanish as mine just ain't that good:D

Yes, there are other areas to consider other than Costa Rica. Having said that, a little overrun by expats is OK by me, there will be a good % that speak English. I am hoping that I still find Costa Rica's NW coastal area to be like Colorado was in the 80's and 90's, But without the snow , we are definitely getting over shoveling snow. Back on subject, just this morning out to coffee I got a wiff of that new Diesel Lemon Kush in the air near by. LOL !
So depressing what is happening here. A contact high while at the Starbucks. Hmmm.

[gearhead]

This is way out past Echo Lake. I don't go out there to eat (I do go to Echo Lake a lot to fish) so I've not seen it.

I'm thinking that location is wrong or it's just not in business anymore. It was downtown on the main drag...160 I guess. Looking at Google maps maybe at that hard bend in 160 by the sheriff's office.
Vera's that was on Hwy 64 a bit south of Chama was a favorite. Then she moved into a new building in Chama and the food wasn't as good. Elkhorn café on Hwy 64 was pretty good too. It pops up on the map but may be a real estate office now; imagine that.
I'll get the Angel Fire tour next summer. Sister did say there is a route to not pull the trailer on. Thinking we'll stay at the new RV park in Angel Fire. Doubt I can get the Montana in their driveway, and no doubt she wouldn't want the neighbors to think she knew some trailer trash.
I'm da black sheep o 'da family!

[CaptnJohn]

Visited a cousin in Durango about 7/8 years ago. He wanted us to consider moving there ~~ too cold for me. He moved to Cajun country about a year ago.

[Richard Noble]

I've lived in Colorado over 56 years. The eastern side - Denver et al, is growing and has always had a traffic problem. Pot did not change that. The western side - Grand Junction through Montrose, has seen a very slow growth but that is changing since the oil and coal industries are closing down. I see that crude oil price per barrel is climbing again so that will change out here also. I live near Cedaredge (about 60 miles east of Grand Junction) and do not see much impact from population increase or pot. Real Estate prices are not increasing here but it seems to be a sellers market in the greater Denver area. In my opinion, the use of cannabis is not near as bad as alcohol. This State has seen a boon from the tax revenue from the sale of pot. The are no statistics that indicate any increase in crime from pot use. Most all that I know that use this stuff (and I don't) do not seem to have any anger that might lead to violence. I've been in all 50 states and Colorado is the best overall. That is, until it starts snowing and then we head south!

[sourdough]

I suspect you've lived in CO for 56 years so the incremental increases are not noticed. Over a span of a couple of years, to others, it is alarmingly noticeable.

Not to start a pot vs alcohol debate (the OP was talking about people in CO), I have personally been involved with many that use both alcohol and drugs. Family, best friends etc. Alcohol is alcohol. Pot is the entry drug for everything else. Everyone I know/knew that used alcohol used alcohol. Pot not so. My best friend went from that, to LSD, cocaine then heroin. Didn't kill himself but killed what life he could have had. One of my family members started on pot, then hash, then cocaine.....to the point that his wife called me when his counselor was standing outside the bathroom door while he was ODing on coke. I spent 14k of my money to put him in rehab and try to straighten him out. NO, pot and alcohol are not the same.

[notanlines]

One thing that we might keep in mind is that the majority of Coloradoans DO want the sale and use of pot in their state and voted accordingly. It is my feeling that the use of pot will not increase considerably, only the chasing of individual users will decrease considerably. I was in business on my own for 33 years. In the industrial painting business alcohol is by far the more damaging of the two. I saw considerable use of both and our budget paid for alcohol rehab out the kazoo and never for pot. That being said, I believe that Colorado is changing with the times, other states will follow suit, and our RV camping sites will become harder and harder to find. Yes, I realize we have vectored a little off the original subject, but I will end with an even more irritating statement. Y'all have only seen the beginning of drones in your campsite! Get the 20 gauges ready!:D

[sourdough]

One thing that we might keep in mind is that the majority of Coloradoans DO want the sale and use of pot in their state and voted accordingly. It is my feeling that the use of pot will not increase considerably, only the chasing of individual users will decrease considerably. I was in business on my own for 33 years. In the industrial painting business alcohol is by far the more damaging of the two. I saw considerable use of both and our budget paid for alcohol rehab out the kazoo and never for pot. That being said, I believe that Colorado is changing with the times, other states will follow suit, and our RV camping sites will become harder and harder to find. Yes, I realize we have vectored a little off the original subject, but I will end with an even more irritating statement. Y'all have only seen the beginning of drones in your campsite! Get the 20 gauges ready!:D

Unfortunately I think your observations illustrate how we, as Americans, have given up our rights as granted by the Constitution. As far as I know all studies have shown that pot always moves the user to more potent stuff...I've NEVER seen anything different in 66 years.

[CaptnJohn]

Unfortunately I think your observations illustrate how we, as Americans, have given up our rights as granted by the Constitution. As far as I know all studies have shown that pot always moves the user to more potent stuff...I've NEVER seen anything different in 66 years. I'm assuming you are a druggie (pot)?.

My nephew started on harmless pot and graduated until he killed himself on heroin. Dead at 28 leaving a young son.

[sourdough]

Unfortunately I think your observations illustrate how we, as Americans, have given up our rights as granted by the Constitution. As far as I know all studies have shown that pot always moves the user to more potent stuff...I've NEVER seen anything different in 66 years.

My comment above is off topic (crowded CO) and needs to be ignored. It's hard to be objective when the subject is personal. As was pointed out, the citizens voted for legalizing pot exercising their Constitutional rights. The pot vs alcohol debate is much like GM vs Ford, gas vs diesel etc. - no sense in debating it on an RV forum. I do think it has a hand in the influx of people coming into CO and that will be my last comment on the subject.

[notanlines]

Risking taking this thread even further from the original topic, I'll ask this. Kindly take one minute and read the following article from the National Institute on Drug Abuse. In very few words it sums up the latest information on pot, alcohol and tobacco being gateway drugs. They have that right and you have the right to avoid their state. We spent two weeks in September in Fairplay, Colorado visiting work-camper friends there and nothing seemed amiss to us. I didn't happen to see anything drug-oriented for sale in any stores we frequented so I don't actually know where one might buy the product.
I ended my post commenting about drones being more of a problem in the distant future. I've noticed more RV parks with signs as one enters prohibiting their use. I'm not sure if the 20 gauge might not be the answer.
Oh, by the way Sourdough. I might be interested in a PM or two from you concerning our rights. I'll bet you and I have a lot in common with our beliefs concerning that subject.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-gateway-drug

[Richard Noble]

Yesterday I looked at the two RV parks we have here. One is in town and the other is north of town on the way up the Grand Mesa. I have never seen them this busy this time of the year. So I have to agree with the crowded Colorado comments. From the traffic going up the Mesa I think folks are going there in increasing numbers. There has been snow up there but I don't think there is any left on the ground. Snow - yep time to head south. All I have to do is finish the Zip finish project. I have convinced DW that we will get better mileage if I put a slick finish on the truck and 5er.

[gearhead]

I'll try to take us back......maybe the increase in population in some areas and the increase in RV's is because some folks have no choice. They can't afford a traditional home on Soc Sec benefits. They may have made poor financial decisions and a RV is all they can afford to live in. After I retired from 35 years in the refinery I did some contract work for my ex-employer. A lot of it was oilfield related. Those folks live like gypsies. One grew up in Alabama and lived there while working offshore Gulf of Mexico. Then transferred to north Texas and bought a home there. Then transferred to south Texas. His family was in north Texas, his office was in Houston, and he had a company apartment in Laredo. Many others had large 5th wheels and moved from project to project. Most of them are in the Permian Basin/Midland now.
There is a lot of pipeline and petrochemical related work east of Houston and new RV parks are everywhere. Our CPA just bought one and said he should have it paid for in 2 years.
I see trailers all over the roads around here.
edit....and Houston sure isn't a vacation mecca!

[jsmith948]

We just stayed at the Durango KOA while we explored Mesa Verde. Very nice park BTW. Did not seem to be crowded.

[Dave W]

We just stayed at the Durango KOA while we explored Mesa Verde. Very nice park BTW. Did not seem to be crowded.

We were there over Labor Day and it was full to bursting. I do agree about that KOA being a very nice park even though we were at the very top limit on size. We had their pancake breakfast as well which was pretty good.

[BOWWOW]

There are 6 dispensaries in Durango, there is 1 6 miles from Fairplay and 3 more within 20 miles. After many years and miles of touring 42 states on a bus I have seen alcohol and drugs equally ruin lives. The only difference to me is that alcohol takes longer. Sometimes there's nothing else to do on a tour bus. I did not vote to legalize pot.
Back on subject, I guess I am wondering if the RV industry will ever get on board at either a state or federal level to create more campgrounds or campsites. This summer I hiked several legs of the Colorado Trail tenting it for 1 or 2 nights each time. I found it hard to get away from people. Sometimes hearing music late at night and even smelling pot smoke on 2 occasions. There were people actually cutting down live trees to make a spot for their tent. I remember getting a $125.00 fine for putting a nail in one maybe 15 years ago. If you want to see and the camp in the rockies you might want to check out Montana. Just sayin as a NATIVE it ain't what it used to be.

[jsmith948]

We were there over Labor Day and it was full to bursting. I do agree about that KOA being a very nice park even though we were at the very top limit on size. We had their pancake breakfast as well which was pretty good.
The cafe was shut down for the season when we were there. Great pancakes at Holbrook though.

[Richard Noble]

I love Colorado. I went to undergraduate school at Fort Lewis College in Durango and grad school at CU. Durango is a great place to RV - maybe not so much in the summer. Try before or after the school year. We have RVed in many States and find that the before and after rule works most often. As to the pot thing - if you don't like it, don't use it. Just do not try to get anyone else to change to your way of thinking. I don't drink, don't smoke (anything) and I'm not Mormon (I only have one wife, who is Mormon).

[Richard Noble]

Bowwow - noticed you have removed your decals. How does it look? I've been thinking about that.

[Desert185]

I love Colorado. I went to undergraduate school at Fort Lewis College in Durango and grad school at CU. Durango is a great place to RV - maybe not so much in the summer. Try before or after the school year. We have RVed in many States and find that the before and after rule works most often. As to the pot thing - if you don't like it, don't use it. Just do not try to get anyone else to change to your way of thinking. I don't drink, don't smoke (anything) and I'm not Mormon (I only have one wife, who is Mormon).

Smelling second hand cigarette smoke in the "fresh" outdoors is bad enough, but smelling pot outdoors really pees me off. It amounts to throwing your garbage in someone else's campsite as far as I'm concerned.

[BOWWOW]

Bowwow - noticed you have removed your decals. How does it look? I've been thinking about that.

It looks better than peeling decals. I used acetone and a plastic scraper and many, many rags. No ghost marks somehow. Then a simple wax and buff.
I found some temporary decals that I change the phrase on the front cap now and then .
The latest was "Porch Honky"
I have since sold it bought a diesel pusher ,had fun with that and am selling it and the house with plans to live in a warmer climate.

[Steve S]

So 4 pages later and no one can answer my question?
"That doesn't sound like fun camping at all Why would there be shootings at campgrounds:eek::confused:" ??

[sourdough]

So 4 pages later and no one can answer my question?
"That doesn't sound like fun camping at all Why would there be shootings at campgrounds:eek::confused:" ??

The OP said nothing of shooting in campgrounds. I believe he said he watched the news to see "which town had a shooting today" so you asked a question no one can address.

(I said I had posted my last comment on this topic but this seemed like something that could be easily clarified).

[Steve S]

The OP said nothing of shooting in campgrounds. I believe he said he watched the news to see "which town had a shooting today" so you asked a question no one can address.

(I said I had posted my last comment on this topic but this seemed like something that could be easily clarified).

To rephrase it then. Why would a person need to watch the news to find out where all the shootings then? Is it normal to have to find a safe place to camp and to make sure that you have a gun?
I did a lot of camping this yr, up to the Yukon and all over BC and not once did I have a problem with anyone. I met alot of good people and we all had a great time!"bouncey:

[sourdough]

It appears you are a very literal person and can't catch an off the cuff remark. No, people aren't being shot in campgrounds and the OP never said that. Campgrounds are safe and you don't have to be armed if you don't want to be. I dare say that 99% of the members here have never encountered a shooting in a campground. We're as safe as the Yukon or BC if that's what you're concerned about and myself, and everyone I know, has a great time camping as well. Your concern should be laid to rest.

[denverpilot]

As a native, there's a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Colorado has suffered under a large influx of people fleeing the high prices of (taxes and housing in) California and many other States.

More specifically they move mostly to Denver and less so to the Front Range. These people take a few years to figure out that the rest of Colorado even exists, sometimes, and they think they're in the "great outdoors" in Denver, 30 miles from the foothills.

The downside to all of this intrastate immigration, was that tract housing, that to any native looks like a cardboard shoebox FEMA camp (ha!), went up like wildfire in the late 90s and early 2000s all around the metro in what were then the suburbs. If there was open land a developer was building on it. Junk houses.

But... to the average Californian fleeing that State's high cost of living, they could either sell the California house (if they were that lucky) and literally pocket half of it and buy a bigger and nicer tract home here than they could possibly ever afford in California, or even convert from being lifelong renters in CA to homeowners here.

So areas like Highlands Ranch and Lone Tree and all of Douglas county and Broomfield City and County, Louisville, and Aurora all grew massively nearly overnight.

The flood of interstate immigrants and refugees from expensive places to live continues to this day, a decade or more later.

Both Interstate highways have suffered massive widening projects that snarled traffic for years on each and didn't really keep up with the growth.

The new airport turned out to be a godsend even though natives knew at the time it was built that it was a massively corrupt boondoggle. Population growth came at the right time for that place.

Housing now is in a weird non-recovery until very recently on large scale new construction. After the housing crisis, many construction companies had tossed all their workers out, and when they looked around to resume building they didn't find much in the way of skilled labor.

Ironically the lack of building helped create this. Housing prices have soared to astronomical levels, because not enough new housing was being built. Rents climbed along with the shortage and a lot of the badly needed blue collar folks moved away.

(This also had a drastic change in our politics, but we'll mention that in passing and leave it at that. The State switched from fierce self-reliance to needy, over about five years time.)

Then pot thing came along, but it hasn't had nearly the macro effect that simple economic and mass population migration has. Yes, it's brought some deadbeats, and a bunch of dispensaries next to fast food, liquor stores, and pawn shops, in every other strip mall. But really the issues are much bigger than just pot.

If anything pot in poorer neighborhoods is serving as a release of tension overall -- overcrowding and housing problems and high prices abound in weaker economic neighborhoods. But the areas that were truly blighted and dangerous mostly disappeared as people flooded in and needed to live somewhere.

Natives, have moved to the "ex-burbs" in large numbers, such as myself -- living 45 minutes out of town on the eastern plains on four acres -- that's still "Colorado" to me.

Oil and gas bumped some cities and towns for a while. That's played out and gone bust, just like all the other times it has here. A few more well heads. Some drilling. Some work. But not the boom still.

So... how does this all relate to camping? I'll tell ya!

Campsites have ALWAYS been at a premium during holiday weekends. Been that way since I was a kid. Won't ever change. But they were deserted and wonderful on weekdays when I was a kid. As I got older they got a little more full during the week but never more than half full at most. State did a nice job making quite a few spaces available at State Parks, Forest Service has lots of campgrounds in the mountains, and the occasional KOA and similar thrown in. They'd fill during "tourist seasons" but any other time, just go and you'd get a spot.

Then this big macro boom of people came and hasn't stopped yet.

No new campsites built. So the State expanded as many as they could. Added electrical at many. Nicer amenities.

They started filling up on weekends. Anything close to the Front Range was busy. Reservation system set up. More people. Longer book-ahead dates. Now it's common to see popular dates fully reserved half a year in advance in nicer parks. The busier the weekend the further away the full campgrounds extend away from the Front Range. This May for the holiday week, we went far far away to State Forest State Park (lovely by the way), and it was full. Reservations made a couple of months in advance. Filled not long after.

Weekdays in summer break for school, get away from town, a couple weeks in advance tops. In town the two State Parks are always full now in weekends. Month or more advance booking. School season, better. But weather goes cold.

It's just overpopulation. We are happy folks are camping when they've moved here. That's great. But it's straining everything.

Outside the metro Denver area, much much better. Some reasonable growth but not like the Front Range.

[denverpilot]

Oh by the way, natives won't have much trouble if there's crime in campgrounds. We were always armed and probably always will be. Ha. Especially in the backcountry. We didn't flaunt it much for the tourists but we always were.

I haven't really seen any campgrounds other than the permanent style live in ones in the metro itself get too "seedy" but yeah, there's scattered pockets of migrants of all sorts who are living in the smaller town campsites too. Most just need a place to live and aren't particularly dangerous as long as you keep Bubba from falling in his fire pit after a six pack on Friday night. And even that's pretty rare still.

We do see squatter style campers just popping down on private property along roads in the mountains and geniuses who've started forest fires and the like. They're not in the pay campgrounds. They can't afford it. They drag a 1970s camper from wherever so they can chase their dream of buying pot and then run out of money and find they can't get hired at a large percentage of businesses. They go broke and usually tuck tail and go home eventually. Out of pot money and gas money. They leave trash in national forest lands and private property and make some contained but ugly messes.

By and large pay campsites are still pay campsites with folks who just want to enjoy camping. They have a little more human silliness when they're full like any campsite, but crime isn't up considerably in them, and when booked ahead, still beautiful places to park one's house for a few days and hike or fish or head into mountain towns for a rafting tour or whatever floats your boat.

I wouldn't hesitate to book and stay here somewhere outside of the metro at all if I weren't from here. It's fine. Just get reservations in early for holiday and prime summer weekends.

We just aren't as empty as we once were. No point in me complaining about it either, it's just a natural migration to escape other places.

Economy is pretty good too, all things considered.

They even paved the last road that wasn't to my house in the boonies. Wasn't a good deal at $2.3M for four mikes of two-lane, and nine months to complete start to finish, but civilization keeps creeping out toward us.

[Steve S]

It appears you are a very literal person and can't catch an off the cuff remark. No, people aren't being shot in campgrounds and the OP never said that. Campgrounds are safe and you don't have to be armed if you don't want to be. I dare say that 99% of the members here have never encountered a shooting in a campground. We're as safe as the Yukon or BC if that's what you're concerned about and myself, and everyone I know, has a great time camping as well. Your concern should be laid to rest.

I'm just going by all the posts here. It sounds like there's a lot of druggies in the campgrounds. Living there, over crowding etc.
From what I've been reading there's a lot of problems going on in the area and most of it is from population growth.

[BOWWOW]

That doesn't sound like fun camping at all Why would there be shootings at campgrounds:confused::eek:

I said nothing about shootings in campgrounds.
I mentioned towns. It seems as though there is at least 1 shooting along the front range here in Colorado daily.

Don't worry I think your out of range. LOL!:USA2:

[CaptnJohn]

It is very rare to hear of a shooting in a CG anywhere. Read the CG national news sites and you will see any assault is very rare but not quite as rare as a few decades ago. A CG is probably much more safe than any but the seediest hotel/motel that rents by the hour. The reason I carry in a CG is because I carry everywhere legal to do so and try to avoid places it is not legal. OP could be parked beside me for a month and share several campfires and never have a hint I'm armed.

[m&m]

Thanks to every one on the post, great news. Currently live in Fl. Will be visiting Co next year. Sons co. moved him out there. Your parks sound a lot safer than ours !
Last drive out to visit him(no RV) I found many great people, good food, fresh markets and fresh air. I left with a great impression of the people of Co.
Looking forward to taking the RV out there. Thanks again. (tx) I will leave after a few months,:(

[Steve S]

I said nothing about shootings in campgrounds.
I mentioned towns. It seems as though there is at least 1 shooting along the front range here in Colorado daily.

Don't worry I think your out of range. LOL!:USA2:

Either way it doesn't sound like a great place to live! lol! From what others have said about packing a gun while camping makes me wonder if you have razor wire fences and windows covered in mesh at home.:rolleyes:
I was in Detroit 2 weeks ago and the run down and empty houses being used as crack shacks was just amazing!
It's pretty sad to see the way the States has really gone downhill over the yrs since Japan, China and Korea has taken over the car industry which America used to own and was proud of at one time.:rolleyes:

[gearhead]

To quote Ross Perot.."the giant sucking sound" of jobs leaving.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=the+giant+sucking+sound+of+jobs+leav ing

[Mandolin]

We've seen a fairly similar thing in the Pacific Northwest - camping within, say, 3 hours of a major metro is jampacked. To get away from that we need to travel further out, go on weekdays, etc. A lot of people have chosen to come west.

Population increase, 1980-2015:
Oregon - 61% (remarkable because we have only 3 cities with a population of over 100,000)
Washington - 70%
California - 60% (remarkable since the current population is 38.8 million)
Colorado - 80% (an unsustainable growth rate)

Other states have grown, particularly states with a strong job market or some of the energy boom states (although there is a corresponding bust going on now).

[JRTJH]

1971-1974, we lived in Denver, I was assigned to Lowry AFB. We had the Jayco 20' trailer and a Dodge 3/4 ton truck. We were "in the mountains" almost every weekend from March through November. Back then, it was possible to pull a trailer "up to the top of Lookout Mountain" on Friday afternoon, have supper at the Robin's Nest, drink a "few too many" and sleep in the trailer in the parking lot of the Buffalo Bill Museum. Next morning, tow down the mountain to Golden, take the Coor's tour and "sleep it off" in their parking lot. Then, later on Saturday afternoon, head west, toward Central City on Hwy 6, pull off almost anywhere there was a gravel road, find a "flat spot" and set up camp. Hardly ever saw anyone, never had any problems finding "space to camp' and never had reservations.

Times have changed dramatically. Partly, I suppose, because of the population growth, partly because more people have the means to afford an RV, partly because of the desire to "escape the city to distress" and partly because most of us really "long for some quiet time"..... Gone are the days of being able to do that kind of camping in Colorado. Now, without weeks (sometimes months) of prior planning, you can forget finding any place to camp within "driving range of Denver".

Heck, Cherry Creek Reservoir "used to be" an open range wilderness" with no formal campground. Go out there, find a spot, set up camp and start rabbit hunting for supper. That was 15 minutes from Aurora. Won't be doing that anywhere around Denver these days. We tried to get reservations at Cherry Creek last year when we made our "out west trip". All the campsites were reserved and the only available openings weren't until sometime in September, after school started, and then, the weekends were reserved, so we could only get a "weekday reservation".....

Busy, BUSY, BUSY !!!

[koko]

Ahhh! WYOMING!

[2Savages]

WOW! So it's just not me seeing this. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some form of legal pot in 1 or 2 other states like Washington? If so are there similar cases there? I realize that the recreational form of pot sales is the major problem. Yes crime is up, it's an all cash business, the federal government wont back the store owners at the banks. I really like the weather in Colorado but, 100,000 citizens are moving here every year, and a good amount for the wrong reasons. I'm on the west side but you can see it even in small towns all over the state. Once again we are looking at a place in Costa Rica. Future Expat, maybe.

Seattle Washington isn't fairing very well with the new pot laws and homeless issue. When we hear statistical reports, it's usually about Colorado, such as the maternity wards are delivering babies with THC in them at birth. The doctor asked the mother if she knew it was harmful to her child and her reply was "Its Legal". The I-5 corridor is full of homeless tent communities and disgusting RVs, that are rented out by slum lords. They are towed to a location and have to be towed out of them. No regular towing company wants to be involved with towing RV, because to dismantle an RV it would need to be towed to a site North of Seattle or 100 miles south for environmental purposes.

[Desert185]

Seattle Washington isn't fairing very well with the new pot laws and homeless issue. When we hear statistical reports, it's usually about Colorado, such as the maternity wards are delivering babies with THC in them at birth. The doctor asked the mother if she knew it was harmful to her child and her reply was "Its Legal". The I-5 corridor is full of homeless tent communities and disgusting RVs, that are rented out by slum lords. They are towed to a location and have to be towed out of them. No regular towing company wants to be involved with towing RV, because to dismantle an RV it would need to be towed to a site North of Seattle or 100 miles south for environmental purposes.

How progressive. :banghead:

[Richard Noble]

Please just send your money to Colorado and stay home. Stats I look at show that, on a per capita basis, there has been little or no increase in crime due to pot.

[gkainz]

Please just send your money to Colorado and stay home. Stats I look at show that, on a per capita basis, there has been little or no increase in crime due to pot.



2 friends of mine in law enforcement beg to differ with you.

[bartbill]

That is not the story I am getting from Forest Service folks on the Front Range. The forest is full of stoners and indigents and other bumbs.

[BOWWOW]

Ahhh! WYOMING!

Ahh, the Snowy Range is only 3 hours from Denver. See you soon LOL.
Just kidding I am selling my rig before the used RV market floods.;)

[BOWWOW]

That is not the story I am getting from Forest Service folks on the Front Range. The forest is full of stoners and indigents and other bumbs.

So true, I'm sure Cedaredge has no increase but all along the front range there is a very noticeable increase, Especially in the major cities along I-25.

It's Nov 13th and we have only had 1 night with a light frost. The homeless stoners are going to freak on out when that first big blizzard dumps 3 feet of white utopia on there tarp towns.

[sourdough]

So true, I'm sure Cedaredge has no increase but all along the front range there is a very noticeable increase, Especially in the major cities along I-25.

It's Nov 13th and we have only had 1 night with a light frost. The homeless stoners are going to freak on out when that first big blizzard dumps 3 feet of white utopia on there tarp towns.

We can only hope that Darwin works his magic:D

[bartbill]

Spent two weeks in the Crawford State Park area in August and September. I'm a West Slope kind of guy.

[OregonRver]

Durango has a nice RV park but it falls into the 'crowded Colorado' arena. Early to midweek works best, and long lead time reservations are a must. Russ

http://www.durangoriversideresort.com/

[BOWWOW]

Well I started this thread in October. It's June now.
Does anyone have any crowded Colorado camping experiences to share yet as we move into full blown camping season ?

[dodgefather21]

Being from Wyoming and having a son on a travel league for baseball . I have even noticed the difference . Boulder Colo in my opinion had most homeless . It was like every street corner you seen someone with a sign . I personally do not care for Denver all the traffic gives me anxiety and I want to v line straight home the minute I get there . I was born in Wyoming raised in Boise and Ft Collins and glad to be back home in Cheyenne with a small population .


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[scottz]

From where I'm sitting, there is no doubt the legalization of pot forced on us by the metro areas is causing problems. My insurance rates have gone up substantially. Our small town has one grocery store, one gas station and three pot stores.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/17/legalized-marijuana-turns-colorado-resort-town-into-homeless-magnet.html

[koko]

Won't comment about Denver - our son and his lovely family live there and love it. We're from Wyoming, so anywhere seems busy and dangerous to us. So far since late April we've camped in Colorado Springs, Cortez, Gunnison and Silt. All were very nice, easy to get a reservation (of course we weren't quite in-season yet), and those reservations were made on the day of travel. All campgrounds were safe and secure. Colorado is a beautiful state; and on a whole, Denver has good weather year-round, and that's one of the reasons people want to be there.

[captcolour]

Spent 3 nights last week at the Garden of the Gods RV park. SWAT team stand-off 1/2 mile down the road with about two dozen shots fired. Gate to Midland Trial permanently locked due to keep out homeless and others.

Up here in Estes Park for 4 nights. Much nicer environment. Campgrounds busy but not packed.

[gkainz]

I'm doing a lot of trips to Custer, SD to care for sick family, and my blood pressure begins to drop significantly about Cheyenne northbound, stays nice and low the whole weekend, and then begins to rise around Cheyenne southbound again...

I hate crowds.

[B-O-B'03]

We spent 5 nights in the Junction Creek FS camp ground, before the memorial day holiday, May 15 -19 and other than the cold, it was awesome.

The campground was, mostly, empty and offered electrical service, potable water close by and pit toilets.

It is about 4 miles from Durango and we went into town a few times and did not notice the bums and no one asked us for anything.

I would definitely go back, but probably not in May.

After that we spent 3 nights in my BIL's driveway in Monument and then headed back to the Dallas area.

-Brian

[sourdough]

We spent 5 nights in the Junction Creek FS camp ground, before the memorial day holiday, May 15 -19 and other than the cold, it was awesome.

The campground was, mostly, empty and offered electrical service, potable water close by and pit toilets.

It is about 4 miles from Durango and we went into town a few times and did not notice the bums and no one asked us for anything.

I would definitely go back, but probably not in May.

After that we spent 3 nights in my BIL's driveway in Monument and then headed back to the Dallas area.

-Brian

I'm glad you didn't run into them; they're still there. Just talked to a lady yesterday commenting how glad she was that the Walmart here in Pagosa finally opened and she didn't have to go there and deal with it. We were talking about downtown at the time. Unfortunately I came across 2 here in Pagosa this morning after breakfast at a local restaurant:(

[BOWWOW]

Won't comment about Denver - our son and his lovely family live there and love it. We're from Wyoming, so anywhere seems busy and dangerous to us. So far since late April we've camped in Colorado Springs, Cortez, Gunnison and Silt. All were very nice, easy to get a reservation (of course we weren't quite in-season yet), and those reservations were made on the day of travel. All campgrounds were safe and secure. Colorado is a beautiful state; and on a whole, Denver has good weather year-round, and that's one of the reasons people want to be there.

Mid May is a great time to do a road trip down around Cortez.
We really like to go dry camping just northeast of Mancos out past the Transfer forest campground. There are so many good places down that way that are still kind of undiscovered by the masses of the Denver metro.

[gearhead]

I'm glad you didn't run into them; they're still there. Just talked to a lady yesterday commenting how glad she was that the Walmart here in Pagosa finally opened and she didn't have to go there and deal with it. We were talking about downtown at the time. Unfortunately I came across 2 here in Pagosa this morning after breakfast at a local restaurant:(
A WalMart in Pagosa?? Is the Hub burger joint still there? Man I'm overdue for Pagosa. Been 25 years.

[sourdough]

A WalMart in Pagosa?? Is the Hub burger joint still there? Man I'm overdue for Pagosa. Been 25 years.


Ha! The Walmart was quite a deal in the making.....10 years or so. Lots of hot feelings on both sides but it's finally here; and welcome by every person I've talked to (locals).

Where was the Hub burger place? I've not seen it but that doesn't mean much. I'm up and down 160 and into town every day but not off on the side roads a lot (side roads in town; I'm all over the mountains).

If you haven't been here in 25 years you owe it to yourself to get back here soon. I try not to advertise the place to anyone because to us it is such a jewel and if it becomes like Durango we won't come back. The up side is that the city fathers, and the citizens, don't want to be like Durango and resist most anything that would push the town that way....thankfully - BUT it is changing slowly.

[gearhead]

I'm thinking the Hub was in the curve on Main St., about where that River Pointe coffeehouse is. Good burgers. We tried to get there at least once when we were hunting in the 1980's.
I've just got to committ myself to get back up there and stay at Sportmens. Or make it a "me" trip in the cab over and dry camp on Williams Creek Reservoir. Maybe during hunting season and call it a scouting trip. Yeah, I'm working on this......

[notanlines]

Yep, all the owners and employees of the local hardware stores, grocery stores, pharmacies, tire and brake shops, gas stations, bakeries and butcher shops will be plumb tickled that the money mongers known at Wally World have come to town. The place adds so much to the local community.

[sourdough]

I don't think the Hub is there any more. I'm right in there a lot and I've not seen it. But, there are lots of new places from that long ago....heck, there are new places from last year. Keep working on those plans.....:)

[gearhead]

Yep, all the owners and employees of the local hardware stores, grocery stores, pharmacies, tire and brake shops, gas stations, bakeries and butcher shops will be plumb tickled that the money mongers known at Wally World have come to town. The place adds so much to the local community.
It's a like-hate thing with me and WalMart. When they came to our little town of 8,500 the small Mom & Pop shops screamed about them. I don't blame them at all. My neighbors across the street owned a convenience/sporting goods store. I don't think he has ever stepped foot in Walmart. They hung on to it for 15 years but sold it last year and the wife went to teaching school. Now you have shop on the internet for those little local items that Walmart doesn't stock. But their prices are low and they pay taxes.

[Outback 325BH]

Yep, all the owners and employees of the local hardware stores, grocery stores, pharmacies, tire and brake shops, gas stations, bakeries and butcher shops will be plumb tickled that the money mongers known at Wally World have come to town. The place adds so much to the local community.



Never understood the mentality of: "let's pay higher prices to save someone else's business."

If people willfully wanted to pay higher prices and save those businesses, they could refuse to shop at Walmart.

Clearly there aren't many folks that would rather spend more of their money just to save someone's business and that does not benefit them in any way.

"Adding to the community " is also another term that gets thrown around... yet is really just something the business owners like to use as a scare tactic. Other than providing goods and services, what do they provide? So their high prices are taxes for the "community work" they do?

Walmart employs a lot of people. That benefits the community.


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[66joej]

I once lived in a small town in Alberta. Asked the owner of the local hardware store why his price for a particular item was so much higher than the Home Depot 20 minutes away. His response was "well you'll spend that much more on gas to get the stuff so it works out to the same price". Logical? I don't think so. He has since closed the store.
Also I think ol' Sam Walton became the world's largest retailer by charging lower prices for like products.

[gearhead]

I'm not sure if the neighbor closed his shop because of WalMart or they just got tired of it. It was a prime location and I imagine they got a sweet deal when they sold it to a liquor store chain. We still have the womens shops and what I call fu-fu shops in town. I think Walmart is putting heavy pressure on the local Brookshire Bros. grocery store. HEB already closed.
I admit we shop WalMart a lot. But we try to shop small business as well, especially the hardware/lumber store.

[JRTJH]

I also had the unpleasant experience with a local business vs internet purchase on spindles for my tractor mower deck. The local business pricing was almost $80 per spindle (3 required) and they needed to order them for me. With shipping to their store (another trip to town to pick them up) taxes and the purchase price it came to almost $300 for the spindles not counting the week wait and another trip to town.

Amazon Prime (free shipping/no taxes) had the identical Oregon spindles for $19 each. With Prime 2 day shipping to my door, the total cost was $57. A significant savings at 1/5th the price at the local small engine repair shop.

That was almost 6 years ago and that business is no longer open.

I support local businesses when I can justify it, but it's not my goal to spend my hard earned money (or my retirement savings) just to keep a non-competitive business open when I can buy the identical item somewhere else at a significant savings.

WalMart may be the most visible "on site presence" that competes with local small business, but the "online presence" of Amazon, EBay and other websites are significant competitors in an ever-changing economy.

Come to think of it, I can't remember seeing a "privately owned non-chain" hardware store (like the ones when I was a kid) in the past 25 or 30 years. The only "hometown" hardware stores are either ACE, True Value or a similar "national chain/WalMart model" type hardware store. Gone is the old "Simpson's Hardware and Tool" down on the corner of "Main Street and First Avenue"...

[B-O-B'03]

I'm glad you didn't run into them; they're still there. Just talked to a lady yesterday commenting how glad she was that the Walmart here in Pagosa finally opened and she didn't have to go there and deal with it. We were talking about downtown at the time. Unfortunately I came across 2 here in Pagosa this morning after breakfast at a local restaurant:(

Oh, I am sure they are around... this is the way we seem to be headed as a society :confused: ... everyone just needs a hug.

Maybe they were on coffee break the times we went to Wally world.

We spent as little time in town as possible, for us, all the good stuff is else where.

-Brian

[theasphaltrv'er]

Well I started this thread in October. It's June now.
Does anyone have any crowded Colorado camping experiences to share yet as we move into full blown camping season ?

Not a crowded experience but an experience none the less.
DW & I have made it an annual event to camp the week before Memorial Day weekend & the week before the 4th of July up @ Haviland Lake north of Durango & or up @ Vallecito Lake north of Bayfield. Have been doing it for years. Last year Haviland was full. This year, the 4 nights we we were there, only one of the nights there was other campers in our loop. Of course it snowed the week before & was still a little on the nippy side but I'm sure the end of June will be packed when we go up.