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jafud1
10-02-2016, 05:33 PM
Hello to all. I am new to the Keystone RV forum and do not currently own one, but am shopping for a new Montana fifth wheel now. We are considering starting to full-time as I am retired and my wife has a job where she can work anywhere we can get a good signal for our Verizon MiFi hotspot. I currently own a 35 foot travel trailer and tow this with my 2013 Toyota Tundra which has performed very well. Obviously this will not suffice for towing a Montana fifth wheel. Not having owned an HD pickup truck or having towed a fifth wheel I would welcome any advice on which options are most important to include on a new tow vehicle. I have owned both GM and Ford pickup trucks in the past and have not yet decided on a manufacturer. Have been doing some research online but will start visiting dealers to look and test drive new vehicles this week. I do plan to select a 350 or 3500 with diesel engine and would prefer a single rear wheel truck. In the past I have selected an extended cab version but have not gone with a long bed in the past so that it could fit in a 21 foot garage. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

CaptnJohn
10-02-2016, 06:24 PM
You can still get by with a short bed but height will probably keep it out of the garage. Although I have a slider hitch it has never been used. I regularly pull 12,500# up/down mountains with a 2016 F350 SRW crew cab with the 6.7 and 11,500# GVWR package. I have delivered a friends 5er after his truck was wrecked. It weighs 14,500 and never felt a semi pass or crosswind. Over the mountains was certainly not a problem either but it is getting close to numbers so I think that would be max before going dually.
I have a 2016 Lariat Ultimate 4X4. Way more 'stuff' on this truck than I want or will use and the 2017s have even more. As the 2017 is a model change there are some great deals on 16s still on the lot. All 3 make great trucks today.

BlueThunder34
10-02-2016, 06:40 PM
I'm not one for all the fancy leather, heated/cooled seat, etc options. but for me the key options I looked for were power ext tow mirrors, rearend ratio, diesel, exhaust brake, back up camera and long bed for more stability. Those were my must haves, anything extra was a bonus.

jafud1
10-02-2016, 07:14 PM
Thank you for your replies. The models we have been looking at mostly weigh in the 13-14K range dry weight. Add in the 3K or so CCC and I am looking at 16-17K possible total weight. I see that some people on the forum do not like the single rear wheel configuration for towing large units. I have been working my way through reading on the truck manufacturer's websites to try to understand all of the ratings to determine how much and what kind of truck is needed. My wife would prefer to have a gas engine truck. Some years ago we had a 35 foot class A on a Ford V10 gas chassis and did not have any significant issues with it. We went through a lot of the mountains in the eastern US but never anything out west.

BlueThunder34
10-02-2016, 08:17 PM
I would have to agree, those weights are probably best served by a DRW. Gas or diesel your choice, but keep the exhaust brake in mind that comes with the diesels, very beneficial with a heavy 5er you are looking at. They will all pull but stopping is even more important.:)

Laredo291OH
10-03-2016, 03:43 AM
I just bought my first diesel a couple of months ago, won't ever look at a gas again. :) The big 3 all offer a the factory 5th wheel prep now, GM just came out with it earlier this year so they can be a little hard to find on the lot, but I would definitely have that option. Pulling that large of a camper and heading out west, I wouldn't even consider a gas powered truck. I pulled an 8000 lb travel trailer with a 2500 HD gasser thru the Big Horn Mountains which was a 7% grade up for 15 miles and then 7% grade down for about the same, said I would never do it again without a diesel. I bought a SRW truck, but the 5th wheels we are looking at are 10-11K dry and 13-14K loaded, by the pin weight I will be at about the max for my truck. Just an FYI, I bought a 2016 Silverado 3500 SRW, crew cab long bed, duramax with the 5th wheel prep and most options, the sticker in the door says the payload is 3500 lbs. If you are looking at a 17k weight you will have a 3400 lb pin weight (figured at 20%), I think you are definitely in dually range.

bsmith0404
10-03-2016, 04:25 AM
With that size of 5er and full timing, here is the list of must haves if it were me. Diesel (which comes with exhaust brake), DRW, Allison trans (okay I'm biased on that one, but it's the best one in the class), camper mirrors (believe they are standard on DRW, but have seen some dealers go with the standard mirrors on SRW), and 8' bed (again standard on DRW). If you are full timing, your TV comfort while towing is the main consideration, this combination will give you the most capability and the most stability, no reason to sacrifice on those two areas. While your at it, make sure your 5er has a cushioned kin pin, Mor Ryde or TrailAir. Mine has the most basic TrailAir Roto Flex and it is night and day over a standard king pin.

Dave W
10-03-2016, 05:43 AM
We pull with the sig truck and it has performed flawlessly to the current 97000 miles. It is a gadgeted Lariat and does have the Ford 5er option ( a necessity!!) which includes overload spring leafs and a sway bar. As far as the accessories that are on the truck, there are some that have never been used. It does include several 12V power points and one 120VAC (newer ones have more). For distance travel, the power captains seats cannot be beaten whether in leather or cloth cover. I consider a long bed a necessity for long distance travel as it starts out with a 39 gallon fuel tank vs the SB's 29 gallons. With a short bed, you have to start planning the next stop right after you fill up as 10-11 mpg and really 20-22 usable gallons, being on the safe side. Remember, that a 13+ foot high, 35-40 foot long Montana or other brand just wont fit in every corner station plus Flying J or Love's aren't at every crossroads. Yes, you can add another bed tank or bigger frame rail unit but you are adding big bucks to your cost. Additionally, the long bed is inherently more stable at speed (yes, I've had both and hauled similar 5ers with each). Dual rear wheels are a nice plus but up to 12-13,000 pounds and 38 or so feet, really, IMHO, not necessary. You will need air bags regardless of brand. They level and stabilize your trailers/load. Then there is the crew cab/extended cab - either will work just fine but that CC extra length and more easily accessible and huge back seat area are sure nice. Mine fits our garage but just barely - 4" front, 2-3 in back with the door closed.

Disclaimer: My opinions based on using and owning many pickups and trailer RVs since 1977. Other can and will differ:D

Desert185
10-03-2016, 03:21 PM
Many good suggestions offered.

One option that I would not ever do without, whether 2WD or 4WD, is a rear limited slip differential. The factory option cost is negligible, but the cost to add the limited slip after the fact is considerably more. If you're choosing options on a new truck with the dealer, I would certainly check that box. :thumbsup:

jafud1
10-03-2016, 05:19 PM
Thank you all for the great input. It sounds like that if going west it should be a diesel and exhaust brake and a duelly due to the weight of the units we are looking at. I want to be in control and be safe and not cause a problem for others on the road. The Montana does have the MorRyde king pin. I need to research the hitch for the truck also. Now I know the long bed is good for stability and also to gain the larger fuel tank. I already wish I had a larger tank on the Tundra with my travel trailer. And since it is 35 foot long I also know the issues of getting into a lot of gas stations.

CWSWine
10-03-2016, 06:02 PM
Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/matching-trucks-to-trailers

bsmith0404
10-04-2016, 04:37 AM
With the 8' box you have plenty of room to add an auxiliary fuel tank. I added a 65 gal ATTA tank that I found used on CL. Total investment for mine was under $400. Even if I had purchased new and invested into the $1,000 range it is worth it, especially if towing a lot as you will most likely be doing as a full timer. I now carry more than 100 gallans and have a range of 1,000+ miles. I fuel up after we stop for the night and unhook. I no longer drag my 5er through any gas station.

I don't agree with the statement of needing airbags. I don't have any, my truck levels out perfectly without them and rides fine. That's where the 3500 dually definitely has an advantage. Also, 3500 DRW come standard with a limited slip rear end.

As for the hitch, I have a Reese with the single hook jaw and love it. Others have had great luck with Curt, B&G and Andersen. Any of them will work and work well. I have to admit I'm intrigued by the Andersen and if I were buying a new hitch today I would have to take a serious look at it mainly for the weight advantage feature. A 20k hitch is heavy and difficult to take in and out on your own, the Andersen is not.

bdaniel
10-04-2016, 08:31 AM
I don't agree with needing airbags either. After choosing diesel or gas and SRW vs DRW the next most important thing is an integrated brake controller. There is no comparison between an integrated brake controller vs an add on.

I am very happy with my Dodge Diesel SRW 3500 truck with the integrated exhaust brake.

Bobby

Desert185
10-04-2016, 09:17 AM
I have integrated seat heat. :)

No airbags, though. A rear anti-sway bar is a nice touch, too.

Since hitches were mentioned, my steel, 24K rated Andersen weighs 75# and has no remaining rails in the bed when removed, as I have the gooseneck ball version with a B&W Turnover Ball. Stock Lippert pin box. Long bed. Love the combination. With a long bed, I wouldn't have any other hitch.

Dave W
10-04-2016, 10:06 AM
Air bags - if you have no experience with and without them with the same truck/trailer combination then you have no idea what the difference is in total TV/unit stability as well as ride comfort. But adding them is an owner's prerogative. It is though a reasonably inexpensive way to help the TV manage the load

Desert185
10-04-2016, 10:18 AM
I went with Timbrens first and have had good success with the 20 minute and forget install.

gearhead
10-04-2016, 05:57 PM
I'm pulling the Montana HC with a SRW. If it was any, and I mean any, heavier I would want a DRW. I haven't looked at specs lately, but I'm thinking I would only pull the smallest Montana with a SRW. Go ahead and get the dually. With the huge storage bay on 5th wheels the pin weight jumps easily. Add a second A/C, extra battery, maybe a washer/dryer combo, and the requisite 28 pair of shoes, and you can easily add 1,000 pounds to the advertised pin weight.
Be thinking about rear axle ratios and the characteristics of the 3 brands of diesels. My ex-Ford was a high revving almost hot rod engine. My current Ram is lower rpm. I'm pulling with a 3.42 but a 3.73 would be better. If you're towing mostly out west you might consider a 4.10. Heated seats are awesome, especially when my old back starts aching. I would be suffering if I didn't have satellite radio. Vented/cool seats are handy in summer time. Full length side steps/rails make it easier to reach that 5th wheel hitch lever. Get the factory hitch prep and sprayed in bed liner.
If you do go with a SRW, watch the yellow payload tag in the drivers door. My Ford F350 had 3267#, my Ram is 4018#. Very similarly equipped. Most Chevy's I saw were around 3700#.
edit add....I'm reading on another forum about issues with Andersen hitches and heavier trailers. I don't want to start anything, but do your research.

EVMIII
10-06-2016, 12:52 PM
Good advice from all. I strongly agree on the value of DRW when towing. It sigiicantly enhances the stability and comfort of the tow. Plenty of gas stations/truck stops so don't worry about refueling. I am also a big fan of the Allison 6 speed transmission, but any of the 3/4 ton diesel offerings will do the job. The best advice I have received was simply don't be in a hurry. Don't travel too far or too fast in a day, enjoy the journey. Safe travels.

Hansel
10-06-2016, 08:30 PM
Go with more truck than less, I'd go DRW and I read today that GMC/Chevy have upped the HP on the diesel too 445HP and over 900ft lbs of torgue.

denverpilot
10-06-2016, 10:32 PM
I'm pulling with a 3.42 but a 3.73 would be better. If you're towing mostly out west you might consider a 4.10.


Considering I'm pulling with 4.10 on a much much older truck with less HP and far less torque than the numbers coming on the new ones these days...

I think the 4.10 is often a bit much. Usually not needed.

Laredo291OH
10-07-2016, 03:14 AM
I believe in the GM lineup you can only get the 4.10 with a gasser and you can only get the 3.73 in the diesel, no choices either way.

bsmith0404
10-07-2016, 03:58 AM
With the power these new diesels are putting out, there really isn't an RV that is going to cause them problems on pretty much any road we can take them down. The main consideration is the max torque point. That is where your most capable power is delivered as well as where your best fuel mileage is achieved. So the combination of transmission final gear and rear end gear has to achieve that at an acceptable highway speed. The GM 3:73 gear puts the Dmax at that point right around 65 mph. Which is also considered a safe towing speed by many people, coincidence? Using the 6 spd Allison gearing, they can achieve plenty of take off power to get you rolling out of a hole. It's the combination of the two that creates a useable package. Don't put too much thought into what the rear gear ratio is these days. It's not as significant as it was in the old days with gas engines and 3 or 4 spd transmissions.

Desert185
10-07-2016, 09:40 AM
I agree.

I have 3.55 gears with a six speed manual. The tire size equation yields a comparable 3.42 rear. My engine is putting out more torque than stock (~650#). If 6th (OD) is too high a gearing, I just shift to 5th (1:1) and the truck does well. I'm my own tow/haul mode.

Starting out isn't an issue with the "granny" 1st gear. Unloaded, 2nd is 1st and 6th yields a nice, fuel mileage enhancing RPM.

Timon
10-07-2016, 03:46 PM
Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.

bsmith0404
10-07-2016, 03:54 PM
Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.

A lot of the guys I know with Ram trucks also agree with adding air bags. They talked about the harsh ride without them. I can only guess that the Ram trucks run rougher since my Silverado rides about the same loaded and unloaded and it's not at all harsh. With a Dodge automatic the Aisin trans is the only way to go. Their other autos have proven to be a weak link.

jafud1
10-09-2016, 03:33 PM
Thank you all for your continued input on this question. I value all responses from those of you with experience with larger fifth wheel trailers. I have met with a salesman at a Ford dealer. He is working to get the information I need on available units in the area and waiting for a unit to come in to test drive for a day. He suggested that I take it into the nearby mountains during my test drive. Will also do this with other dealers as I have time in the coming weeks. Will also do more research on the various fifth wheel hitches.

kfxgreenie
10-09-2016, 04:29 PM
A lot of the guys I know with Ram trucks also agree with adding air bags. They talked about the harsh ride without them. I can only guess that the Ram trucks run rougher since my Silverado rides about the same loaded and unloaded and it's not at all harsh. With a Dodge automatic the Aisin trans is the only way to go. Their other autos have proven to be a weak link.

I don't think he's talking about adding airbags, i believe he's saying if he was shopping for a RAM it would have the Rear Air Suspension Option on the truck from the factory. Updates coming for GM HD's in 2017, updated motor and tranny, the new Fords, RAM will be be last for updates. These new trucks from all three just keep getting more BA.

bsmith0404
10-10-2016, 05:05 AM
Air bags - if you have no experience with and without them with the same truck/trailer combination then you have no idea what the difference is in total TV/unit stability as well as ride comfort. But adding them is an owner's prerogative. It is though a reasonably inexpensive way to help the TV manage the load

Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.

I don't think he's talking about adding airbags, i believe he's saying if he was shopping for a RAM it would have the Rear Air Suspension Option on the truck from the factory. Updates coming for GM HD's in 2017, updated motor and tranny, the new Fords, RAM will be be last for updates. These new trucks from all three just keep getting more BA.

You may be correct, I was just combining the airbag discussions and assumed it is what he was talking about.

I just saw the specs on the new dmax. It sounds like a beast, I just hope they found a way to put all of that power out and still maintain fuel mileage. Based on numbers of other transporters, Dodge and Ford had suffered when they upped the power, time will tell.

If you're looking seriously at Ford, you may want to look at the F450 over the 350, but check your local DMV drivers license laws. That's something to consider with the 350/3500 as well. In NM I can run a class E license which allows me to exceed 26,000 lbs GCWR while towing my personal RV without a CDL, other states will make you get a CDL.

jafud1
10-10-2016, 09:22 AM
You just brought up a very good point about weight that I had not thought about yet looking at towing a fifth wheel with super duty truck. I need to look at that for the state of South Carolina. They have different rules then in Ohio where we moved from a year ago. When we were looking at some class A motorhomes earlier this year I was asking that question. At that time we understood from the salesman that the Tiffin gas chassis class A we were looking at was below the weight that would require a CDL license. The combination of truck and trailer we are looking at now may go above that number.

JRTJH
10-10-2016, 10:27 AM
You just brought up a very good point about weight that I had not thought about yet looking at towing a fifth wheel with super duty truck. I need to look at that for the state of South Carolina. They have different rules then in Ohio where we moved from a year ago. When we were looking at some class A motorhomes earlier this year I was asking that question. At that time we understood from the salesman that the Tiffin gas chassis class A we were looking at was below the weight that would require a CDL license. The combination of truck and trailer we are looking at now may go above that number.

In addition to looking at the driver's license classifications, don't forget to check your insurance requirements. In many states, CDL designated vehicle requirements also carry commercial insurance requirements. You might well find that your $300 a year insurance rates suddenly become $3000 rates with a "commercial vehicle" designation on a vehicle that carries over a 26000 pound rating.

jafud1
10-10-2016, 12:17 PM
In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.

JRTJH
10-10-2016, 12:33 PM
In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.

The driver's license category (non-commercial class E or class F) may not be considered a "commercial license" because of the "RV designation". Many insurance companies "lump all vehicles in a weight group" regardless of "RV" designation or "Commercial" designation. So, even though the driver's license department calls it a "non-commercial" license, the insurance commission may still put the vehicle in the commercial class for premiums. I'd suggest you call your insurance agent if you're looking at vehicles above the 26K rating to be sure you can get insurance at a "private use" rate. We've got some members on the forum that are paying "very high insurance premiums" and "commercial registration rates" on vehicles that they can legally drive with a "non-commercial license".....

Timon
10-10-2016, 12:43 PM
In addition to looking at the driver's license classifications, don't forget to check your insurance requirements. In many states, CDL designated vehicle requirements also carry commercial insurance requirements. You might well find that your $300 a year insurance rates suddenly become $3000 rates with a "commercial vehicle" designation on a vehicle that carries over a 26000 pound rating.

In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.

Why is this being brought up? NO state in the continental US requires anyone to to get a true Commerical Drivers License to drive an RV. There are a few that requires a non-commercial license but not a CDL.

Note I didn't include DC since who really cares about DC.:yawn::D I bet if one calls the DMV in DC there is something that exempts RV but then it's DC so all bets are off.

JRTJH
10-10-2016, 01:30 PM
Why is this being brought up? NO state in the continental US requires anyone to to get a true Commerical Drivers License to drive an RV. There are a few that requires a non-commercial license but not a CDL.

Note I didn't include DC since who really cares about DC.:yawn::D I bet if one calls the DMV in DC there is something that exempts RV but then it's DC so all bets are off.

The reason I brought it up is because there are "some states" that DO require a "driver's license endorsement" to operate a vehicle with a GVW greater than 26,000 pounds (even if it is an RV) and some that require a license endorsement for double towing, even if it is below 26,000 pounds. Additionally, in SOME states, insurance premiums are significantly higher for vehicles rated higher than 26,000 pounds. The ONLY reason I mentioned it was to suggest that the OP (who is apparently considering a new vehicle) might want to check with his state to see if an endorsement (or "non-commercial license') is required "BEFORE" he buys the vehicle and then finds out that his insurance is double what it would have been on a "lower rated vehicle" and/or before he gets a ticket for driving without the appropriate license...

If you're not in one of those "unfamiliar states" then no problem for you, but not all of us are "fortunate enough" to live in a state where "anything goes" as long as nobody is watching......

bsmith0404
10-10-2016, 04:51 PM
I understand what you're saying/thinking, but I think the insurance only applies if you're vehicle is registered as a commercial (26.001 or more). Most states will only register trucks based on GVWR which is well below commercial status. The type of DL you have should not affect the insurance rates of the vehicle. So the secret is to only register your vehicle at 26,000 lbs or less.

JRTJH
10-10-2016, 05:16 PM
Please read post #4 and post #9 here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25359&highlight=license

Many people only see "rules that apply to their state" and forget that what applies to them can be entirely different just "one town away" .....

bsmith0404
10-10-2016, 06:02 PM
Interesting. I know as transporters they wanted us to be registered at 26k to avoid the federal fuel tax regulations. I met a few from CA with 350/3500 duallies that did not have commercial plates. If they had been registered as a commercial vehicle they would have to have an IFTA license since they were transporting RVs not for personal use. I haven't looked into the CA laws or the laws of every state out there, but it does make me wonder how some with a dually being used commercially can get away with a 26k plate and how others using them for personal are having to register commercially....makes me think it is how/what is said at the DMV.

*Edit: I just read a bunch of stuff on the CA laws and I don't see why a 350/3500 would need to be registered as a commercial vehicle. Pickups with an unladen weight less than 8,000 lbs are not affected by commercial vehicle registration act. An F450 may exceed the 8,000 lb since the 350s are getting close to that. As for the license, it depends on the GVWR of the trailer if a class C or non commercial class A is required. I've seen it happen more than once where the people at the DMV don't know all the rules/laws or the owner doesn't do their homework and doesn't do a good job of explaining their situation. It's also possible that I may have missed something since I only spent about 20 minutes looking up the info.

This is just for discussion purposes though since the OP is from SC, but it's good discussion to show that everyone needs to do their homework for their state to make sure they have the correct license and the correct vehicle registration. We've had these discussions in other threads as well, but it's always good to revisit things like this for new members.

JRTJH
10-10-2016, 07:35 PM
Interesting... Pickups with an unladen weight less than 8,000 lbs are not affected by commercial vehicle registration act. An F450 may exceed the 8,000 lb since the 350s are getting close to that.

FYI, when using the Ford website data, http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/exterior/ the 2017 F250 long wheelbase CC diesel "BASE" curb weight is listed at 7494, the F350 is listed at 7734 and the F350 DRW is listed at 8097. With XLT trim, all F350's will weigh over 8000 pounds and in Lariat or higher trim, all F-250's will be at/over that 8000 pound mark. Add running boards, camera/electronic packages, spray in bed liner, underbed fifth wheel hitch options and nearly every 2017 Superduty LB CC will weigh over 8000 pounds.

Curb weight is one of Ford's biggest disadvantages and the reason for the shift to aluminum body panels. With a specific GVW restriction (10K for 3/4 ton), that ceiling makes payload significantly less than 2000 pounds on many F250 trucks and significantly cuts into the payload because of the 11.5K GVW listing on F350 SRW models in trim packages more "luxurious" than the XL or XLT level.

bsmith0404
10-11-2016, 07:09 PM
Don't know what I was thinking, my 3500 is over 8k as well. Brain fart and flash back to my 2500 days. I will say that it was interesting reading through the regulations, I'm not sure if they could make it any more complicated and confusing. Lesson to learn here is to do your homework for your state and make sure you understand the law before you make the purchase. At least then it is an educated purchase and you know what you're getting into.

m&m
10-15-2016, 09:07 AM
This great to read. IMHO. It took me over 2 yrs to find the truck that will do the job. In my quest only Numbers counted. NON CAT
The truck 2013 F350 CC Lariat 8'bed 6.7 3.73 Wt7930 (St Reg)
FAWR-5940
RAWR-9650
GVWR-14,000lbs
GCWR-30,500
Payload 5300lbs

Camper is 2017 Avalanche365MB GCWR-15,500
PW 2800 (around)
HW180lbs
Fuel Wt ? (35 Gal)
Pass.450

With this said I don't have much left for wood etc in bed of truck.
Safety was my #1 issue. (tx)"bouncey:

Ken / Claudia
10-15-2016, 09:36 PM
Here in Oregon, every f450 and 550 or other truck with similar weight and GVWR under 26001 had comm. insurance policy's when I checked their stuff. What got them into trouble was if the same vehicle they licensed at DMV as a passenger vehicle. The passenger plates are 45 a year and for a f450 around 200.

Timon
10-16-2016, 06:54 AM
Here in Oregon, every f450 and 550 or other truck with similar weight and GVWR under 26001 had comm. insurance policy's when I checked their stuff. What got them into trouble was if the same vehicle they licensed at DMV as a passenger vehicle. The passenger plates are 45 a year and for a f450 around 200.
Don't quite understand what you're saying. Are you saying that if you register your F450, or F550, as a personal truck you pay regular personal insurance rates but if you goof and register it as a commercial truck you end up paying commercial insurance rates?

If that's correct wouldn't it be the same for an F350, RAM3500 or other similarly sized DRW truck?