Carlisle Radial Trail RH vs HD

[canesfan]

I'm in the deciding which tires to replace the OEM mode with 2-1/2 years on them now. Have been leaning toward the RH but am seeing some talk about the new HD. Can't find much info online besides at this link

http://www.carlstargroup.com/product/tires/trailers-toy-haulers-towables/radial-trail-hd

Anyone have any more info or real life experience?

Also leaning toward Discount Tire but the closest to me is 3 hours away in NC. Any other suggestions for a good tire store or should I drive the 3 hours? I'm also open to ordering them and having them shipped to me but I still have to find a place capable of putting them on.

[Javi]

I've been looking at the Carlisle tires as well, and like you I haven't found much information on the difference between the HD and RH.

As for Discount tire I'm a big fan, but they're like 7-11's used to be (one on every corner) down here... So getting warranty or work done is a snap. I also like their NO interest payment plan and the free rotate and balance thingy..

[Lic0rice]

Purchased the HD a few weeks ago. I searched extensively and could find nothing comparing the RH & HD except on the page you referenced.."In real world testing, the Radial TrailHD showed a 10% improvement in tire life over the Radial TrailRH, giving you a longer lasting trailer tire."

Just trusting Carlisle.

ETA: I'm a HUGE fan of Discount Tire. Always received excellent service, good prices and tons of locations.

[sourdough]

I recently had the HDs installed on my trailer; gvw 10,000lbs. I saw the same ad that said it was a minor improvement over the RH so I bought 5. I drove from TX to FL where I am now with them; about 1300 miles. Not many miles but I am impressed with them so far. Seem to pull better than the Trailer Kings and going from LRD to LRE made a huge difference in the way the trailer bounced - or the Carlisle is just a better made tire?. Hopefully that in itself will lessen the chance of another tire failure.

And yes, I am a Discount tire fan as well. I drove all the way to FL just to have my tires rotated and balanced there:D. Not really, the mileage just came up.

[gearhead]

I'm running Maxxis right now and am very happy with them. But the Carlisle HD will be equally considered when it's time for new ones.
Discount Tire can be counted on to do it right. I can't remember when I bought a tire elsewhere.

[JRTJH]

I bought Carlisle RH tires the week before the HD was advertised on the Carlisle website. I was initially going to get tires this spring, contemplated "putting it off" for another year and based on sourdough's posts concerning his tire "explosion", I decided to go ahead and get them. RH tires were all the local dealer had available that the time, so I bought them. Even with a 10% tread life increase, I'll probably never wear out the tread.

Based on my "after removing the Trailer King tires" inspection, I can assuredly say that my decision to get tires NOW was the right move.

Whether the HD or the RH tire is "better" is honestly a "moot/mute point". Regardless of which, new Carlisle tires are an arguable improvement over anything Trailer King offers !!!

[bsmith0404]

I've used the RH on 3 different trailers, but if Carlisle says the HD is an improvement, it may be what goes on the next time around. I have 3 years for others to give feedback before I have to decide. A quick look at the website I noticed at some sizes the width is wider, but the tire is not as tall. The size I use also calls for a wider wheel 6" vs 6.5", but max weight and air pressures are the same (with the exception that the HD doesn't list a dual rating).

[jsm180]

I just put 2 HD's on mine and will swap the other 2 when I get home. Discount also offers free replacement if they fail within 3 years for $17 @ tire.

[sourdough]

I bought Carlisle RH tires the week before the HD was advertised on the Carlisle website. I was initially going to get tires this spring, contemplated "putting it off" for another year and based on sourdough's posts concerning his tire "explosion", I decided to go ahead and get them. RH tires were all the local dealer had available that the time, so I bought them. Even with a 10% tread life increase, I'll probably never wear out the tread.

Based on my "after removing the Trailer King tires" inspection, I can assuredly say that my decision to get tires NOW was the right move.

Whether the HD or the RH tire is "better" is honestly a "moot/mute point". Regardless of which, new Carlisle tires are an arguable improvement over anything Trailer King offers !!!

I suspect that in the scheme of things the difference in the RH and HD is negligible. When you are replacing tires every 3 years (I hope they last that long) I think that tires that are made reasonably well are all going to be serviceable until the end (I hope). If I was going to try and get 8 years and 50,000 miles then maybe the 10% improvement would mean something, but that won't ever come into play with my trailer.....and neither will a Trailer King:banghead:

[canesfan]

Thanks for all the input. Yesterday there was only a $1 difference between the two on the Discount Tire website, today the difference is $12, still not a big difference to consider. I found the RH on Amazon for $22 less than DT, however I'm not certain I want to buy tires from Amazon. And I still have to decide if I want to drive 3 hours each way to have it done, so I have some thinking to do on that. We have Tread Quarters local, anyone use them?

[sourdough]

3 hours each way is something to consider for sure. Do you have a CW anywhere near; or closer? I got mine through them. I get the regular tire warranty from Carlisle plus CW has their own warranty (I forget the details) and I can take the tires into them just as I would a tire dealer, so, the locations I can take tires in the event of a failure is not only all Carlisle dealers but all CW locations as well.

Some folks buy tires and have them delivered, then installed etc. I've done that in the past but it's not the same as buying a tire from the local dealer. I did it once and decided I would just rather buy from someone local, get free mounting and balancing, then free rotation and balance for life. Works out more or less in the end. In the end I've finally started using DT for nearly everything. At home in TX it's one hour each way to their location and in NM it's about 30 minutes. I've had super luck with them.

[bsmith0404]

Is it free shipping on Amazon? If you check with DT, they will probably match the Amazon price. My biggest concern buying from Amazon is if they are a new tire or will they have an old date. If they do have an old date, what's the return policy?

[canesfan]

Yes, the Amazon shipping is free. But the age of the tire was my concern too. I doubt they'd take them back if I didn't like the date. But would DT take them back? I guess if I was there in person they might try to get some others, but if I had them sent to me then what? I'm going to call around this coming week and check out some things. There is a hole in the wall tire place I pass often about 30 minutes from me. They have really good reviews online and they are a Carlisle dealer. I also see Pep Boys is a dealer and I have them local, but I don't know their reputation anymore.

[gearhead]

For a RV I think I would buy from a national chain. I would go with Pep Boys if they were handy. I can't remember doing any business with them. I imagine service varies store to store.
If I was buying tires for a utility trailer, yeah Bubba's Tire and Bait Shop would work.

[Lic0rice]

Yes, the Amazon shipping is free. But the age of the tire was my concern too. I doubt they'd take them back if I didn't like the date. But would DT take them back? I guess if I was there in person they might try to get some others, but if I had them sent to me then what? I'm going to call around this coming week and check out some things. There is a hole in the wall tire place I pass often about 30 minutes from me. They have really good reviews online and they are a Carlisle dealer. I also see Pep Boys is a dealer and I have them local, but I don't know their reputation anymore.

DT will absolutely work with you if you feel the tire is too old. I initially ordered 5 Maxxis M8008 from DT. Took them 2 days to come in. When I went in to have them mounted, I ask for them to check the date. The tires were 13 months old. I expected an attitude from the salesman, he was nothing but helpful. When he couldn't find newer M8008 close by, he suggested the Carlisle HD. He had them in the next morning. DT is excellent!

[archerr2002]

We bought our new Carlisle radial trail rh from tread depot.com. They had the best online price we could find. Tires arrived in 2 days with a date code of less hen 6 months. I have a buddy that changes tires on the side, $40 to mount and balance all 4. Stepped up from 8 ply to 10 ply. we have 2 trips on them so far and tows well. I buy all my tires from tread depot.

[mosquitoman]

I never hear anyone mention Goodyear trailer tires, I worked for a Goodyear shop for years so yes I did drink the cool-aid. I wouldn't use any other tire on my tv, I have put the Goodyear trailer tire on a car trailer at work but it only sees in town use. Have you camper uses seen bad things from the Goodyear trailer tires?

[bsmith0404]

I never hear anyone mention Goodyear trailer tires, I worked for a Goodyear shop for years so yes I did drink the cool-aid. I wouldn't use any other tire on my tv, I have put the Goodyear trailer tire on a car trailer at work but it only sees in town use. Have you camper uses seen bad things from the Goodyear trailer tires?

The Marathons used to be a really good tire and where the tire of choice for many. In recent years they seem to have dropped quality and people are seeing more problems than in the past. If I remember correctly, this seemed to coincide with a switch to manufacturing them in China. The G614 seems to be a good tire and I haven't really heard of anyone with problems. Of course I haven't heard of anyone having problems with any G rated tire. IMO the biggest problem with any Goodyear ST tire is that they are overpriced. I can get a equal or better quality tire for much less.

[sourdough]

From my research it appeared that the Marathon (which I have used many years ago) used to be a good trailer tire. They started having them made in China and they started having problems. They moved them back to the USA and they were good. Then back to China and now they aren't (this is all from my memory as I was researching what to buy before I bought the current Carlisle tires). I went to the NHTSA website and pulled up the complaints on the Marathons and almost fell out of my chair. Loads of complaints; I went with the Carlisle.

[canesfan]

Thanks for the tip on Tread Depot. I looked there and they have them for $54 less per tire than DT. That's pretty impressive.

As for buying from a national chain vs Joes Bait and Tire store, I guess that is a consideration I hadn't thought about.

As for Pep Boys, I'll have to look into their current reputation. But from all the comments I'm really leaning toward a 3 hour drive to Raleigh now. There's a nice campground down there I can go hang out at for a few days.

As for CW, the closest one is also 3 hours away. I live in a pretty urban area and there is NOTHING (useful) around here. :banghead:

Again, thanks so much for all the input. Very much appreciated.

ETA: Correction, the $54 less was for the RH, it's $75 less per tire for the HD, although the HD is listed as out of stock and to call for special oredering so that price might not hold. But the RH is in stock.

[mosquitoman]

Thank you for the info, I will have to research this more.

[gatorrig]

I thought I would never buy another Carlisle tire in my life after having a bad experience about 8-9 years ago. I purchased the Trail RH earlier this year after much discussion with a couple of buddies that work at Discount Tire. We have put several thousand miles on them and so far it's been a great tire. If that HD is an improvement over the RH than this guys have really stepped up their game. Hopefully the price will remain good as this tires gain popularity.

[Desert185]

As far as pricing goes, I went to Walmart online for my TV tire pricing a while back, then went to Discount Tire for the ordered tires and DC matched the Walmart tire price just by looking at the Walmart price on my phone.

Walmart price and Discount Tire benefits. Worth the effort.

[denverpilot]

DC rocks. There's just no other way to put it.

[Chinomax]

The new HD tires are good to 81 mph instead of 65. Chino

[Tbos]

5 new HDs LRD (vs LRC) went on our TT last week. It's trip with them is next weekend to the Delaware State Samboree.

[CWtheMan]

Here’s what the builder has to say about them. You be the judge.

http://www.carlstargroup.com/product/tires/trailers-toy-haulers-towables/radial-trail-hd

http://www.carlstargroup.com/product/tires/trailers-toy-haulers-towables/radial-trail-rh

[CaptnJohn]

Only 120 miles on the RH purchased recently. Probably right before the HD was put on the website. :eek: About 600 miles going on them tomorrow but only keep tires 2 - 3 years and HDs will be next unless they have another upgrade before.

[concours]

14,000 KM on our Carlisle Radial Trails still look fine after 2.5 years and will still get 1 or 2 more trips south for the winter. they still maintain air pressure and fairly even tread wear:)

[DMK]

What a coincidence that I see tyhis post the day after I had one of my Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires blow on a 35 mile trip! I purchased them about 13 months ago. I am meticulous on checking tire presure and had recently weighed my vehicle wheel by wheel and know I am not overloaded and my top speed is 65mph or less. I bought them after reading so many good reviews.Luckily the blow out did minor damage, but it did tear the heck out of the fender trim and the fabric holding the insulation above the tire, more stuff to fix now. This has me wondering how much to trust them now. I replaced it with an HD. Anyone else have a similar experience?

[Ken / Claudia]

DMK, I realize that nearly everyone that has a tire blow never looks into how/why or asks a tire shop or the tire maker to look at it and tell what caused the failure. Did you attempt to find out? There may not have been anything left to look at but, just asking.

[BigKidzFun]

What a coincidence that I see tyhis post the day after I had one of my Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires blow on a 35 mile trip! I purchased them about 13 months ago. I am meticulous on checking tire presure and had recently weighed my vehicle wheel by wheel and know I am not overloaded and my top speed is 65mph or less. I bought them after reading so many good reviews.Luckily the blow out did minor damage, but it did tear the heck out of the fender trim and the fabric holding the insulation above the tire, more stuff to fix now. This has me wondering how much to trust them now. I replaced it with an HD. Anyone else have a similar experience?

Yep! Same story here. Lost an RH (3500 in damages) and replaced them all with HDs. We'll see. FYI, I never was over speed, over weight, over heat, or under pressure. The tire just plain blew up. These tires were 14 months old with about 3500 miles on them.

[CaptnJohn]

Not what I wanted to see you two. Just bought 5 RHs a couple weeks ago. Fingers crossed with only 1150 miles on them so far.

[DMK]

Just an update since my first blowout almost a year ago with the Carlise Radial Trail HD's: After returning from the SW last winter I decided I had better get a little more safety margin and after discussing my options at Discount Tire, opted to go to an F rated 235 85/R16 since clearance wasn't an issue less than .5" in total diameter difference. Since the size changed I bought 5 Carlisle Radial Trail HD F rated this was April 28, 2017 all DOT #'s put these tires as manufactured in FEB 2017. By October 1 all 5 had been replaced. 2 failed on the highway in July (This time I was ready having recently purchased an Ezee TPMS I was able to get pulled over before they blew completely saving lots of $$ on my trailer!), one was replaced upon further inspection at Discount Tire in September, after that they decided to replace the remaining for good measure. Now I'm contemplating uprading wheels and tires to go with an H rated commercial 17.5" tire, while I'm at it even thinking about upgrading to a MORrhyde 8K IS suspension with disc brakes. Like I've said before I am meticulous on checking cold inflation every travel day and keeping my speed to 65 mph or less. No longer Impressed with these tires... lots of $$ I know, but I've already made a lot of improvements on this rig including my solar system so whats a little more $$ to have some real saftey margin...

[notanlines]

Sometimes one just has to dig a little deeper in the the pockets to satisfy the urge. I believe yours may be the first major complaint with the Carlisle's that I remember in a long while. Generally the big four come out fairly well on this forum. If a few thousand dollars will make that worry disappear then I say "Go ahead!" You notice how easy it is for me to spend other people's money?:D

[DMK]

Well, when it's one's house you sure don't want to be on the side of road at all costs! :)

[Ken / Claudia]

Like I said before most do not attempt to find out WHY the tires blew up, I hope you asked that question. Some tire guys can and will give a opinion. At times we had tire failure investigated at major crashes. My own was easy, I looked it over and found the valve stem split, nothing to do with a good or bad tire.

[JRTJH]

I'm strictly speculating here and I don't have any specific numbers/weights to go by, but let's look at the potential for problems with a 2013 Raptor 300 and LRE or LRF tires.

First, the trailer is 11985 pounds empty with a cargo capacity of 4515. That's a GVW of 16500. Assuming a pin weight of 20% (3300) that would leave the 80% (13200) on the axles. With 4 tires, that's 3300 pounds on each tire. Looking at the floorplan, on the curb side there is a refrigerator directly over the axles and immediately behind that is a washer/dryer space. I'd suppose (as I said in the first sentence) by speculating, that since you're full-timing, you have a washer/dryer?

Have you, by chance, spent the time to weigh each wheel independently? My guess is that with LRE (10 ply) tires in either 23580R16 (3520 rating) or 23585R16 (3640 rating) your Raptor may be overloaded on that side or on one of the tires on that side. That may be the reason you had such poor performance with the 10 ply tires and even why the LRF (12 ply) tires which are rated at 3960 @95PSI.

With a "calculated wheel load of 3300 pounds" and floorplan locations of extremely heavy components, it's not unreasonable to see 300+ pounds of difference in wheels on the same side and 600+ difference in the pair of wheels on one side compared to the other side of the trailer. Add travelling with a full fuel tank or a full fresh water tank or partially full holding tanks can even magnify that "load imbalance"....

I'm in no position (with the limited information presented) to know for sure what loading the tires experienced, but it seems to me that there's got to be a reason why two sets of 10 ply tires and a set of 12 ply tires all failed on a trailer. It's just not "fate" that caused the failures. If it were my trailer, I'd dig further into the problem and find "why" it happened.

[sourdough]

I know this is contrary to the thinking of many but it, in my mind, makes sense.

The going theory is that you need to have tires able to support the weight of the trailer minus the tongue/pin weight. I disagree with that. I go with the gvw. Why?

Sitting on flat ground the tires ARE only supporting the trailer less the tongue/pin, but in actual driving those numbers are all over the place. I don't recall driving on lots of perfectly level highways; particularly without humps, bumps, undulations etc. Heck, some of I20 in LA and MS will have your truck/trailer somersaulting if you're not careful. In that instance, when the tail of the truck is up in the air along with the front of the trailer, just about the entire weight of the trailer, plus momentum is pushing on those tires. If they are rated to carry less than the weight of the trailer you're just asking for a problem IMO. And this is happening constantly on the road, so, I just look at the gvw and give myself cushion from there. I'm sure some disagree but I am convinced that is the reason so many OEM tires decide to blow - they were undersized in the first place. JMO - YMMV

[Javi]

I'm running the HD's ST235/80R 16's LL 3520 so... 14k and my trailer is 12.3K GVWR got a little over 3K miles on them this year...

[sourdough]

I know this is contrary to the thinking of many but it, in my mind, makes sense.

The going theory is that you need to have tires able to support the weight of the trailer minus the tongue/pin weight. I disagree with that. I go with the gvw. Why?

Sitting on flat ground the tires ARE only supporting the trailer less the tongue/pin, but in actual driving those numbers are all over the place. I don't recall driving on lots of perfectly level highways; particularly without humps, bumps, undulations etc. Heck, some of I20 in LA and MS will have your truck/trailer somersaulting if you're not careful. In that instance, when the tail of the truck is up in the air along with the front of the trailer, just about the entire weight of the trailer, plus momentum is pushing on those tires. If they are rated to carry less than the weight of the trailer you're just asking for a problem IMO. And this is happening constantly on the road, so, I just look at the gvw and give myself cushion from there. I'm sure some disagree but I am convinced that is the reason so many OEM tires decide to blow - they were undersized in the first place. JMO - YMMV


I meant to clarify in the above post that I'm talking more about bumper pull trailers vs 5th wheels. 5th wheels, simply by their construction and method of connecting to the truck mitigate some of the extreme issues I alluded to. I do think it's better to have substantially more capability in the tires than the gvw no matter what but it's not as important with a 5th wheel IMO - if that makes sense.

[Ken / Claudia]

I agree with what John and Sourdough mention. Think about this, I have but, do not know of any way to measure it. Your traveling at 60 mph. When the vehicle goes over a bump weight comes off the tire as the vehicle lifts, when the vehicle comes down how much more weight is pressed into that tire as it compresses. Apply that to tires barely able to support the trailer to start with, apply that to thousands of miles and thousands of bumps.
But, bottom line, all tires fail, I know I deal with them on the freeways. Are China made tires junk, maybe. But, you need to know why they fail and few want to find out.
If I told you it was unsafe to drive on freeways due to the many crashes I investigated. Would you stop driving on freeways. Yes there was a crash but, there was also cause, what was the cause. The end result was a fender bent, was it a bad fender that caused it to get bent or was it due to the driver traveling too fast, following too close, etc etc. Sorry I am a investigator, I work hard to learn why xxx happened.

[Desert185]

I meant to clarify in the above post that I'm talking more about bumper pull trailers vs 5th wheels. 5th wheels, simply by their construction and method of connecting to the truck mitigate some of the extreme issues I alluded to. I do think it's better to have substantially more capability in the tires than the gvw no matter what but it's not as important with a 5th wheel IMO - if that makes sense.

I think there’s something to that. Tire weight rating, I’m sure, is a static load rating, but as tires age, folks load their trailers and over the road changing g loads impact the tires, there is probably a margin that is exceeded.

I might have to go to a LRF tire in the spring when the current tire age begins the fourth year.

[DMK]

I'm strictly speculating here and I don't have any specific numbers/weights to go by, but let's look at the potential for problems with a 2013 Raptor 300 and LRE or LRF tires.

First, the trailer is 11985 pounds empty with a cargo capacity of 4515. That's a GVW of 16500. Assuming a pin weight of 20% (3300) that would leave the 80% (13200) on the axles. With 4 tires, that's 3300 pounds on each tire. Looking at the floorplan, on the curb side there is a refrigerator directly over the axles and immediately behind that is a washer/dryer space. I'd suppose (as I said in the first sentence) by speculating, that since you're full-timing, you have a washer/dryer?

Have you, by chance, spent the time to weigh each wheel independently? My guess is that with LRE (10 ply) tires in either 23580R16 (3520 rating) or 23585R16 (3640 rating) your Raptor may be overloaded on that side or on one of the tires on that side. That may be the reason you had such poor performance with the 10 ply tires and even why the LRF (12 ply) tires which are rated at 3960 @95PSI.

With a "calculated wheel load of 3300 pounds" and floorplan locations of extremely heavy components, it's not unreasonable to see 300+ pounds of difference in wheels on the same side and 600+ difference in the pair of wheels on one side compared to the other side of the trailer. Add travelling with a full fuel tank or a full fresh water tank or partially full holding tanks can even magnify that "load imbalance"....

I'm in no position (with the limited information presented) to know for sure what loading the tires experienced, but it seems to me that there's got to be a reason why two sets of 10 ply tires and a set of 12 ply tires all failed on a trailer. It's just not "fate" that caused the failures. If it were my trailer, I'd dig further into the problem and find "why" it happened.

Sorry it has taken so long to respond, I don't get notifications on my posts for some reason... If you have read my previous posts carefully you would have read that I have weighed my rig, not just the axles, but wheel by wheel and I am NOT overweight on either any of the tires or by axle. Because we are FT and I know things accumulate I have been getting my rig weighed by Escapees smartweigh at least twice a year. Surprisingly enough I am within 100lbs side to side, so asymmetry is pretty darn good on my rig! When we travel (with exception when traveling to a boondocking site), we travel with 5 gallons of fresh water (measured by water meter) and empty holding tanks. (When I weigh I usually have full fuel tanks and propane). I upgraded to a wet bolt kit when I purchased this TH so I wouldn't have issues that many have with shackles and bushings. I have had the alignment checked since the failures (by lazer) although with the suspension on my trailer if it were out, there are limited choices on getting it adjusted (Hence considering a MORrhyde IS 8K upgrade in the spring). It is too much of a pain in the hind end to post the pictures I took of the failed tires (they are somewhere on my phone) although at the tire shops they were too busy to really care about why they failed. Since the TPMS warned me in time to get pulled over before they overheated and blew I thought maybe they would care a little, but they didn't seem to. One split right down the middle of the tread face, another was failing right along the bead, the other failed along the sidewall (DT decided to replace the other 2 by good measure). Out of the three that had me pulled over, one was on the left front, one was on the right front, the other on right rear. I will say that DT is a stand up company and stood behind what they sold me, but with my experience I am not sold on the Carlisle Radial Trail HD's. Starting to look into upgrading to either a commercial grade 17.5" or a 19.5" tire wheel combination. If $ was no object I would upgrade both my TV and TH to a HDT and a DVR Fullhouse. Like I've said in an earlier post I've already put a lot of $$ in this rig so I'd rather do a few upgrades than purchase another one and have to put upgrades on it, not to mention I'm already maxing out the CGVWR on my RAM 3500 dually. Makes me wonder on those that are pulling the larger Raptors, the 300 mp is the smallest 5th wheel Raptor TH and I am pretty much maxed out from a legal standpoint with my 3500!

[Tinner12002]

Well the GCWR on my 15 Ram is 37,800...way more than your 08 so that's how I pull a heavy Raptor. So with that being said, its possible to upgrade to a newer truck to help on your combined weight. As for your tires, before spending money on more Carlisle tires, not that theres anything wrong with Carlisle tires but I would have went with an upgrade G rated tire and wheel to a set of Sailun tires with compatible wheels with a rating of #4080 each.

[JRTJH]

DMK,

As I said at least two times in my post, I was speculating on what "MAY" have been a problem. If you've covered those things, then I don't have any other ideas for you to try toward a solution. I can't tell you why you're having such bad performance with Carlisle tires, but I'd suspect that you'll have the same performance with any brand of tire in a similar size/load range. You may be onto a solution by upgrading to a commercial tire. One alternative to 17.5" wheels is Sailun 14 ply 16" tires on wheels that are capable of supporting their 110 PSI inflation rating? Several members have reported excellent results with the Sailun. Otherwise, all I can do is wish you luck in finding out why you keep having tire problems.

[DMK]

DMK, I realize that nearly everyone that has a tire blow never looks into how/why or asks a tire shop or the tire maker to look at it and tell what caused the failure. Did you attempt to find out? There may not have been anything left to look at but, just asking.

Late reply, just don't get on here much! Yes I actually did try to get them to really look them over and give me there thoughts. Having a TPMS allowed me to get stopped before severe overheating so you could really get a look at the tire, but out of the three different shops I was in they were only really concerned about getting me back on the road (not a bad thing) and said they would send the tires back to the manufacturer. Probably the smart play as they are not product engineers just installers!

[DMK]

DMK,

As I said at least two times in my post, I was speculating on what "MAY" have been a problem. If you've covered those things, then I don't have any other ideas for you to try toward a solution. I can't tell you why you're having such bad performance with Carlisle tires, but I'd suspect that you'll have the same performance with any brand of tire in a similar size/load range. You may be onto a solution by upgrading to a commercial tire. One alternative to 17.5" wheels is Sailun 14 ply 16" tires on wheels that are capable of supporting their 110 PSI inflation rating? Several members have reported excellent results with the Sailun. Otherwise, all I can do is wish you luck in finding out why you keep having tire problems.

JRTJH, As you have read, I have been after the root cause and the answer! The reason for my post is to let others know who may not put on the number of miles that I do, that I have experienced problems with these tires, not by being overloaded, not by being over or under-inflated, or by speed of travel. I purchased the LRF tires in April to increase my safety margin over the LRE tires that I purchased only 10 months before that (only 60 days later a blow out and $1500 damage to my TH, before my TPMS purchase). By September and around 5,000 miles all the LRF tires were all replaced! To me that is pretty significant and needs to be mentioned to all those that think these tires are so great. So far the replacements have held up, but for how long?? The main reason I'm considering 17.5 or 19.5 wheel/tire combinations is the fact that statistically the 16's are prone to failure. One thing to be mentioned here is the size of the tires 225/70 R17.5 or 225/70 R19.5 are still the same total circumference as the 235/70 R16. There are many other pros for this switch but I won't go into them here. If you would like to learn more on this here is one source for 19.5. http://www.boarwheel.com/why-19-5/

Happy Thanksgiving All!

[DMK]

Well the GCWR on my 15 Ram is 37,800...way more than your 08 so that's how I pull a heavy Raptor. So with that being said, its possible to upgrade to a newer truck to help on your combined weight. As for your tires, before spending money on more Carlisle tires, not that theres anything wrong with Carlisle tires but I would have went with an upgrade G rated tire and wheel to a set of Sailun tires with compatible wheels with a rating of #4080 each.

Tinner12002, True on the increased CGVWR on newer trucks, but personally I'd rather spend that $ on a singled HDT and have a little $ left over if I was going to make a switch (a debate for a different thread):cool:.

The LRF tires were a compromise with what my OEM rims are rated for. G rated tires were out of the question unless I wanted to buy wheels at that time. Still researching what I will be changing to, right now leaning towards either a 17.5 or 19.5 commercial grade wheel/tire upgrade. $ wise it's all pretty comparable by the time you buy wheels and tires.

[DMK]

I agree with what John and Sourdough mention. Think about this, I have but, do not know of any way to measure it. Your traveling at 60 mph. When the vehicle goes over a bump weight comes off the tire as the vehicle lifts, when the vehicle comes down how much more weight is pressed into that tire as it compresses. Apply that to tires barely able to support the trailer to start with, apply that to thousands of miles and thousands of bumps.
But, bottom line, all tires fail, I know I deal with them on the freeways. Are China made tires junk, maybe. But, you need to know why they fail and few want to find out.
If I told you it was unsafe to drive on freeways due to the many crashes I investigated. Would you stop driving on freeways. Yes there was a crash but, there was also cause, what was the cause. The end result was a fender bent, was it a bad fender that caused it to get bent or was it due to the driver traveling too fast, following too close, etc etc. Sorry I am a investigator, I work hard to learn why xxx happened.

Ken, Many good points here and tires do fail from cumulative stresses over time. The infrastructure in this country is not in really great shape overall, this could be some of my trouble that I have been experiencing. RV's are the only vehicles that are at or near 100% capacity 100% of the time! What I will say about finding out the root cause of failure unless it is really obvious like road hazzard damage, it would be pretty hard to get from anyone but a product engineer. Unfortunately you won't find one at a tire shop on most days...

[JRTJH]

DMK,

Good luck on which ever way you choose to go. Keep us posted on your decision and the success/failure of your choices. Inquiring minds want to know... Happy Thanksgiving, even if tires aren't on your list of things to be thankful for......

[DMK]

DMK,

Good luck on which ever way you choose to go. Keep us posted on your decision and the success/failure of your choices. Inquiring minds want to know... Happy Thanksgiving, even if tires aren't on your list of things to be thankful for......

Will do! Thank you all for your input! Hope I didn't come off too strong on any of it, it can sure be frustrating!

Happy Thanksgiving!

[DMK]

*Update: After having all 5 tires replaced last fall, I had two more catastophic blowouts again the same day a couple of weeks ago. This time it did quite a bit of damage to the J-wrap and took out the DARCO in the wheel wells! Of course one on each side and after I had used my spare also had a coach-net call for help from the side of the Interstate! These Carlise Radial Trail HD's are junk!!! (Yes I have been weighed by smart weigh, use a Eez TPMS and do not drive over 65 mph!!). If you have them get rid of them tomorrow before they damage your rig! Discount Tire filed a damage claim on my behalf to Carlise. They also told me they are discontinuing this tire from stock from all the trouble others have had!

I have an appointment this next week at MORrhyde to upgrade to the 8K IS suspension/disc brakes and wheels & tires to the 235 70/ R17.5 G114 H rated and those damn Carlises couldn't get me there without failing and damaging my rig again!!! I am so ready to be over this junk!

[Ken / Claudia]

Ok, they are blowing up. What is the cause? What did the TPMS say before, loss of pressure, over heat, nothing? Your 1st post did not have any of that information either. Just you were warned.
I would have the tire co involved and make sure they get them for inspection, sounds like that may be getting done this time. The tire shop should have opinions after looking at them If they do not offer ASK them. I have had 2 blow outs my my truck and looked them over, my case was clear the rubber valve stems ripped out. I had several blow outs on patrol vehicles and each was easy to see why. Full metal valve stems are a must on a heavy vehicle.The tires were not the problem. On the patrol vehicles it was always road debris embedded into the tread. If you do not have metal valve stem get them now, buy them with new tires, 6 bucks each well spent. I am not a tire expert but by looking at the tire it will show reasons for the failure and tire shops at least the managers know what those look like.
Besides RVs trailers there are many other types, mainly work trucks driving around at full GVW every day. I know I weighed them.

[CWtheMan]

*Update: After having all 5 tires replaced last fall, I had two more catastophic blowouts again the same day a couple of weeks ago. This time it did quite a bit of damage to the J-wrap and took out the DARCO in the wheel wells! Of course one on each side and after I had used my spare also had a coach-net call for help from the side of the Interstate! These Carlise Radial Trail HD's are junk!!! (Yes I have been weighed by smart weigh, use a Eez TPMS and do not drive over 65 mph!!). If you have them get rid of them tomorrow before they damage your rig! Discount Tire filed a damage claim on my behalf to Carlise. They also told me they are discontinuing this tire from stock from all the trouble others have had!

I have an appointment this next week at MORrhyde to upgrade to the 8K IS suspension/disc brakes and wheels & tires to the 235 70/ R17.5 G114 H rated and those damn Carlises couldn't get me there without failing and damaging my rig again!!! I am so ready to be over this junk!

I’m not writing this in support of the Carlisle tires. It’s about the situation.

The fitment requirement for RV trailer axles requires the trailer manufacturer to use tires that supports its certified GAWRs. The actual statement in the standard says the trailer manufacturer gets to decide what’s appropriate and then certify that decision on the certification label. Guess who gets to set & certify those axles? You got it, the trailer manufacturer. Guess who’s the only one that can change those GAWRs once they’ve been certified? The vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier.

So, in your case, your trailer has 7000# axles. Fitted with ST235/80R16E tires. At the recommended cold inflation pressure they only provide 20# of load capacity reserves per tire for a fully loaded axle. The standard RVIA recommendation is a reserve of 10%, or tires with at least 3872# of load capacity. That’s a ST235/85R16F or ST235/80R16G at full sidewall inflation pressures.

The results of documented studies for trailers like yours have shown that approximately 50% were found to have an axle over loaded or tires on it under inflated. Another study shows that there is a 60% chance that a single tire position is over loaded or under inflated. That is a very damaging condition for tires that are already at, or nearly at, their maximum load capacity when properly inflated. Tires in those conditions degrade rapidly and the condition is invisible until it starts to fail. The first visible sign will be tire growth or bubbles in the sidewall. When they start getting taller they are real close to throwing the tread.

Here is a picture of two like sized and designed tires. The taller one is in full tread separation.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=27625

Recommendations: Compare your OE tire load capacity to the certified GAWR. Normally going up a load range or two will insure a longer life expectancy from the replacements.

[ctbruce]

*Update: After having all 5 tires replaced last fall, I had two more catastophic blowouts again the same day a couple of weeks ago. This time it did quite a bit of damage to the J-wrap and took out the DARCO in the wheel wells! Of course one on each side and after I had used my spare also had a coach-net call for help from the side of the Interstate! These Carlise Radial Trail HD's are junk!!! (Yes I have been weighed by smart weigh, use a Eez TPMS and do not drive over 65 mph!!). If you have them get rid of them tomorrow before they damage your rig! Discount Tire filed a damage claim on my behalf to Carlise. They also told me they are discontinuing this tire from stock from all the trouble others have had!

I have an appointment this next week at MORrhyde to upgrade to the 8K IS suspension/disc brakes and wheels & tires to the 235 70/ R17.5 G114 H rated and those damn Carlises couldn't get me there without failing and damaging my rig again!!! I am so ready to be over this junk!David, so sorry to hear of your troubles. That really sucks.

Is this a second series of Carlisle blow outs for you? In an older post, you replaced Trailer Kings to Carlisles in August of 2015. Having it happen once is bad. Twice would be devastating.

A lot of us run Carlisles, me included and will be curious about your issues. Do you know what the manufacture date is on the tires that blew? This information will surely help others out. Thanks for sharing your update.

[DMK]

I don't get on here much and I do not get notifications to responses on this post so I am seeing the April responses today!

First to Ken/Claudia, no warning from TPMS until rapid pressure loss, no spike in temp or big change on pressure.

To CWtheMan, I am very meticulous about how my rig is loaded and at least once a year have been using smartweigh to get a wheel by wheel measurment with full fuel tanks, full fresh water, etc to have the worst case loading senario when weighed. I don't have the numbers handy as they are in the glove box of my RAM pickup at my in-laws. But I was not over, but was at maximum on nearly every category. We are full-timers so not hard to do. Since the last smartweigh I have switched over to an HDT as my TV and have transfered a lot of weight (mainly tools) over to the truck so those numbers should have improved a lot. I am planning on another visit to smartweigh when I get back out to the SW this winter.

To ctbruce, I will have to look back through archived pictures I know that I dd take pictures of all the DOT #'s.

Since my last post in April after my 8k IS upgrade and upgrade to GY 114 17.5 tires & wheels I have had no issues with any tires and have put on close to 15k. it was a lot of $, but so worth not having anymore tire issues, having a little more safety margin even though it's not official according to the sticker on the trailer. The suspension also is align-able so that will also be a nice benefactor down the road...

[bob91yj]

Other than Discount Tires warranty, and tire pricing, mounting and balancing a tire
is not that difficult. I'd let most any tire shop do the work for me.