Exceeding my gvwr

[aksilvy1]

After weighing my truck and trailer i figured out I will be exceeding the gvwr for my truck when my 5er is hooked up.

Thing is, I'm preparing for a 6000 mile trip from Alaska to North Carolina. Not a whole lot I can do about it now but just gonna take it easy and go nice and slow. I am in no hurry.

I guess if things get ****ty along the way I'll have to trade the truck in and get a drw.

[Desert185]

Popcorn...:)

[CWSWine]

Are you over any other specs like you tire load ratings or you axle ratings? I don't tow over GVWR since I like the safety margin but some believe the axle ratings are holy grail of weights never to be exceeded and make sure you are within your tire ratings.

[concours]

You don't say how much you are over on the truck GVWR but you could consider moving some of the cargo to the rear of the trailer which would help with the pin weight or are you talking about GCWR?

[aksilvy1]

Well I don't know exactly how much my pin weight is. Trailer will be about 12,500 for the trip. %25 of that is 3125 pounds for pin weight. That would be high end. My gvwr is 10,000 pounds. The truck with full fuel and hitch installed is 8000 lbs. Add two adults plus two small children plus pin weight I'd say I'm well over.

I've had this setup for 2 years with no issues but we've only done short driving. My gawr for rear is 6200 lbs. I believe my tire rating is 3200 lb per tire. I was thinking about getting new tires anyway.

[aksilvy1]

gcwr is 25,000 lbs so I'm good there. Gtwr is 16,000 lbs so I'm good there as well.

[CWSWine]

Pin weight is just nice to know at this point.

What you need is go to the CAT scales and get three weights the way you are going to travel. You should have three weights - front wheels - rear wheels - 5er wheels. Make sure all your passengers are in the truck and everything you will have in the truck for the trip and 5er is there.

Add the trucks front and rear wheels together and that should be less than 10,000 lbs (GVWR)

Look at just the rear tires weight on the truck and that should be less than max axle weights which I believe is 6100 lbs but it is listed on your trucks door jam. If over this is one there is no question you are way over weighted for trip from Alaska to North Carolina.

Add all three weight together and that should be less than you GCWR of your truck.

Good luck...

[roadglide]

I have the same set up and have been on the car scale 3 different times , with full walter and the harley I was 60 lbs over on the axles. I know with 50 gallon fuel full Im over. Get load levers air bags. You have the most advanced TV on the road. The Duramax and Allison are grate. Set you monitor for transmission. I rarely get to 170 Degrees with the Allason and use your exhaust brake and keep it under 65 and enjoy. I worried more about the trailer tires . I got st G raided sailum tires.

[aksilvy1]

Thanks for the info. I was going to try and get everything weighed before I leave. I've been towing the rig like this for 2 years like I said and no issues but they have been short trips.

I'm thinking about stopping in anchorage and getting new tires all around. That is my biggest concern. Other than that I think it'll tow just fine. I'll keep everyone posted. Any more comments I'd love to hear them. Thanks again.

[Desert185]

Wow! You got off easy. :)

You might consider carrying two spares. The frost heave repairs can be a little hard on tires.

I've seen rigs parked overnight at Fast Freddies parking lot in Tok, and you need to plan a night at Liard River on the way down.

Have a great trip!

[fla-gypsy]

Only you can determine what is acceptable for you. If you are over on the RAWR I think you're placing yourself in a poor position for success. A few pounds over on GVWR is one thing, exceeding rear axle or tire/wheel ratings is a real problem IMO.

[roadglide]

I Haven't weighted empty but I feel more overloaded empty on the drive axles then loaded. If you get over 12 k on the trailer you would need all your holding tanks full and the garage packed . I'm consistently at 10500 lbs on the trailer axles with around 30 gallons of water, The 311 is really well balanced and claims 16000 GVW. I'm not into DRWV for getting around but there definitely safer, If you went to a 1 ton SRW your would have the document for 1000 lbs Pay load. I cant see the SRW 1 ton being any safer.

[sourdough]

You're about to head out on a very long trip with loved ones. So from just a safety perspective let's look at a couple of things:

Your truck weighs 8000lbs (I would say at least). It hasn't been scaled but for arguments sake let's figure your weight split is 4500frt/3500 rear. Your pin weight will be north of 3000lbs - figure 3200. 3200 + 3500 = 6700 lbs. You said your gawr is 6200 = (500lbs) overweight (obviously these are hypothetical numbers). You said your gvw is 10000 lbs. so 8000 lbs for truck + 3200 lbs for pin = 11,200 lbs or 1200 lbs over on gvw. Lots of bouncing, rough roads so those numbers are going to fly all over the place.

Lot's of folks take these things lightly, and, most of the time nothing happens, BUT, if it does, and something terrible happens to your family or another family due to you being overweight, the person responsible for whatever tragedy might happen will be looking at you in the mirror every day.

I'm not trying to be harsh or judgemental. These are the things I think about and the things I thought about, before upgrading my truck. The chances of something horrible happening to me was probably miniscule, but on the other hand, if something terrible had happened to someone because I knowingly fudged something, I don't know that I could have recovered mentally or emotionally. It's one thing to be blindsided by something; it's quite something else to take a chance to "see what happens". We only get one go round and there simply is no reason to try to cut it short by taking short cuts.

Again, I don't mean to sound harsh; just trying to focus on the most important factors regarding your decisions and trip.

I wish you the best regardless of what you do and hope you and yours have a wonderful time.

[Ken / Claudia]

Many years ago when I had a 1996 f250 7.3 engine. I got a camper, had a smaller boat than now. The vehicle towed, drove great. After several trips I weighted in at the nearby ODOT scales. My rear tries were over their gross weight ratings. I have a family and some value. I thought about what could happen since in my job that is what I see, what could happen. I went to the tire shop and got better tries that than gave me the weight rating for that load and more. On current truck the tires are rated at max at 3740 lbs each more than I need, not under for the same reason, safety. Think about your tires max rating and go above that. Now think about the heat and higher psi they get when traveling, now add to that the vehicle shifting. As to a tire hits a bump, when it comes down from that bump, how much more weight is pushed into the tire at that moment 100 lbs? or more ?. How much more weight goes onto a front tire when braking as the vehicle weight is shifted. How much more weight even as going down a steep hill and braking at 55 mph. Those question's I cannot answer but, I do not want to start with any tire I know that is overloaded.
Edit: I do not see the last post before I started mine. Looks like we are saying almost the same thing. I also am not attempting to be mean or be little anyone, just safe.

[aksilvy1]

I do not want to take this lightly at all. I'm going to try to keep the trailer around 12000 pounds so not exactly sure what my pin weight will be. Says it should be 15%-25% of trailer weight so between 1800 and 3000 pounds.

im starting to think I should trade in the truck.

[aksilvy1]

I Haven't weighted empty but I feel more overloaded empty on the drive axles then loaded. If you get over 12 k on the trailer you would need all your holding tanks full and the garage packed . I'm consistently at 10500 lbs on the trailer axles with around 30 gallons of water, The 311 is really well balanced and claims 16000 GVW. I'm not into DRWV for getting around but there definitely safer, If you went to a 1 ton SRW your would have the document for 1000 lbs Pay load. I cant see the SRW 1 ton being any safer.

You are at 10500 on the trailer axles with it hooked up to the truck? When I weighed the truck alone is was 8k and when hooked up the total was 20k. So trailer weighs about 12k with all tanks empty except for 1/2 tank of gas in the trailer and still had a few hundred pounds of gear.

[sourdough]

I do not want to take this lightly at all. I'm going to try to keep the trailer around 12000 pounds so not exactly sure what my pin weight will be. Says it should be 15%-25% of trailer weight so between 1800 and 3000 pounds.

im starting to think I should trade in the truck.

Listed dry pin weight for that trailer is 2780 lbs and it will go up considerably. 1800 lbs isn't in the ballpark from what I've seen.

Also understand that things that happen from overloaded axles/wheels aren't like a blowout; a wheel/spindle/axle that breaks under duress will immediately put your vehicle and the trailer in catastrophic circumstances along with you, your family and any other unfortunate soul that happens to be in your proximity.

[roadglide]

You are at 10500 on the trailer axles with it hooked up to the truck? When I weighed the truck alone is was 8k and when hooked up the total was 20k. So trailer weighs about 12k with all tanks empty except for 1/2 tank of gas in the trailer and still had a few hundred pounds of gear.
It doesn't work that way because your transferring 2780 lbs to the tow vehicle. I loaded my Quad , Harley and 110 gallons of water for Quartzsite looking at my cat weight I was 22580 GW . trailer axle was 11100 , drive axle 6440 , steer axle 5040. 11,480. 1400 over on the truck. I also had 86 gal of diesel. I haven't figured how i'm under the steer axle and and 200 over the drive but 1400 lbs over the truck weight. I just replied to myself. Sorry

[sourdough]

I do not want to take this lightly at all. I'm going to try to keep the trailer around 12000 pounds so not exactly sure what my pin weight will be. Says it should be 15%-25% of trailer weight so between 1800 and 3000 pounds.

im starting to think I should trade in the truck.

Dry weight of your trailer is listed at 11.640 lbs. 12,000 won't be in the picture for a traveling trailer. Carrying load is listed at 4860 lbs = 16,500lbs, which is what you have to go by. Roadglide posted how far overweight he is; yours will be close, probably more. Operating at that level puts you and everyone else at risk. No one knows when "fate" decides to put those that push it.....to the test. At that point saying "I thought I could make it one more time", "it wasn't that much", "I didn't think it would happen to me", "everyone else does it", "I did it last week", all that means squat - particularly in front of a jury about to put you in prison for knowingly running overweight after wiping out a family. In your case all they have to do is look at the legally posted numbers for your truck and trailer....and, it gets ugly.

[roadglide]

Dry weight of your trailer is listed at 11.640 lbs. 12,000 won't be in the picture for a traveling trailer. Carrying load is listed at 4860 lbs = 16,500lbs, which is what you have to go by. Roadglide posted how far overweight he is; yours will be close, probably more. Operating at that level puts you and everyone else at risk. No one knows when "fate" decides to put those that push it.....to the test. At that point saying "I thought I could make it one more time", "it wasn't that much", "I didn't think it would happen to me", "everyone else does it", "I did it last week", all that means squat - particularly in front of a jury about to put you in prison for knowingly running overweight after wiping out a family. In your case all they have to do is look at the legally posted numbers for your truck and trailer....and, it gets ugly.
Sourdough what is your TV? I'm under the impression your not familiar with the modern diesel vehicle or your tv is a diesel and your pulling a small trailer. I'm a member of the duramax forums and know that the duramax is grossly under rated . The sticker on the TV is there for safety requirements and tax purpose.

[sourdough]

[QUOTE=roadglide;202341]Sourdough what is your TV? I'm under the impression your not familiar with the modern diesel vehicle or your tv is a diesel and your pulling a small trailer. I'm a member of the duramax forums and know that the duramax is grossly under rated . The sticker on the TV is there for safety requirements and tax purpose.[/QUOTE

It's not about my trailer/TV. I'm well below ALL weights because I upgraded to make it so. It wouldn't matter if my trailer weighed 5k or 25k I would have a TV rated to tow much more. Such is not the case here - and yes, I am very familiar with the modern diesel, trucks, payloads and towing.

Being a member of a Duramax forum, or reading that some folks think it is grossly underrated, or BELIEVING that the stickers are there as some sort of guideline will not keep you out of jail if you knowingly exceed them. They are put there to TELL you those are the max weights you can have and not to exceed them....period - as you said "for safety reasons". That is done so that there ISN'T a reason for every individual to interpret weights the way they want to see them....and to fit whatever situation they have.

I once knew a very large, strong oak tree on the edge of my favorite stream. The limbs over the river were large, strong and beautiful. I KNEW they were WAY strong when I threw my rope over it and proceeded to use them to swing out over the river. Imagine my surprise when on about the 5th swing out this big limb broke; dropping me in the river and missing my head by about 6". NO WAY! I said. The tree said YES WAY. The same holds true for your truck and weights. The rules are there for a reason. In my tree case a big limb fell and barely missed me; in your case, when the rear wheel breaks off your truck due to an overload (I've had a trailer wheel "depart") and you start skidding crossways in the highway with your 5vr in tow and happen to plow into a Prius, Sentra, Altima, etc. etc. and lay them out....who, again who, do you think is going to be thinking about "poor you" in the courtroom? Not a soul. I've seen a small car run clean over by a semi, left sitting in the road with roof and half the car gone, as they tried to lay blue tarps to cover the "halves" of what was left. I won't be a part of that if I can prevent it.

I have expressed my concerns about this and the reasons for them. I don't want to start a debate with anyone/everyone who believes they can run overweight because they think it's ok because of abc etc. This is something that is left to each person's discretion and thoughtfulness; I understand that.

One last thought about "duramax", "duramax forums" and the "duramax" being grossly underrated. The "duramax" is the engine. It is involved in the towing capacity of a truck BUT so is the tranny, differential ratio and a host of other things...most importantly the CHASSIS and SUSPENSION of the tow vehicle. Those items are of primary concern when you start talking about the weight dropped onto a truck....not the ability of the engine to pull x amount of pounds rolling on wheels..........

[SADLY]

So now we're going to jail if we exceed GVWR ?

[jsmith948]

So now we're going to jail if we exceed GVWR ?

Dy on't know about jail - although, in the event of a death due to criminal negligence you would probably be charged with manslaughter or vehicular homicide. My concern would be what a personal injury shark would do to me on the witness stand in front of a jury box filled with tree hugging Prius drivers!
FWIW, the GAWRs of my truck add up to 11,300, BUT, the truck has a GVWR of 10,000. That is the number I have to adhere to if I want to be LEGAL. JMHO:)

[NWTTrailer]

So now we're going to jail if we exceed GVWR ?

:banghead:

[Ken / Claudia]

It's not over GVWR that gets you to jail. It's what makes many acts a civil case or criminal case against you if you kill of cause major life threating injury. This is called intent. Did it happen due to knowing or reckless behavior. IF a DA gets a case where a family was killed by a overloaded vehicle and it is found out that the driver KNEW he was over weight and may have not been overweight by having a different truck or trailer or other equipment. Maybe a case for a criminal act well be charged. BUT, as we here weekly on news about civil law suits. That is what well destroy your life style even with insurance. Do you own a home, have a job. Someone will try to get money from you.
Just being over weight likely will not be the only factor in a major crash. Add speed, blow tire, axle break, maybe road conditions, driver distracted or tired/sleepy etc. End result the vehicles get impounded and checked out by police for every reason why it happened. Just the vehicle computer will show how it was driven just before the crash.

[Javi]

Today's society is filled with people who simply have no sense of personal responsibility... occasionally when one bright light starts to shine, the rest move in to smother it...

[Sulphur1]

Hi aksilvy1,
Interesting reading about your dilemma and the replies. We have similar issues here in Australia with the same response - 'you'll never get weighed, etc'. But the legal side is always in the back of my mind!
My Cougar pin is only 1675 lbs and I'm right on the vehicle's 10,000lb limit with two passengers, a Reese R22 hitch and a bed locker -almost nothing in the truck. I was amazed at the weight increase compared with my 2000 GMC K3500 Dually.
I bought a Chev 2500HD for it's safety features, particularly braking not realising how heavy it has become. I should have bought a 3500HD SRW which is exactly the same truck with uprated rear springs and shocks and a different badge. I've ordered the 3500HD OEM complete rear spring package at a cost of $A2200 to legally uprate the vehicle. Without knowing the added spring weight it will give me about another 1100lbs peace of mind with no legal consequence re overloading. Unfortunately these trucks are 3x US price so model change not considered.
Whilst I guess I did not do enough research I believe the vehicle sales people should better advise customers re the suitability for the task, but then it's all about the money these days.
Cheers
Jon

[SADLY]

Whew..... in my state, we can register our trucks for whatever weight we want.

It's just a taxation issue... So I could register a 9000lb GVWR truck for 12,000.

[CWSWine]

Whew..... in my state, we can register our trucks for whatever weight we want.

It's just a taxation issue... So I could register a 9000lb GVWR truck for 12,000.

Air bags and 12 ply tires doesn't increase the payload of the truck but a sticker on the plate does. Interesting....

[sourdough]

Whew..... in my state, we can register our trucks for whatever weight we want.

It's just a taxation issue... So I could register a 9000lb GVWR truck for 12,000.

So you're saying that if I bought a Ford Ranger and decided I wanted to tow a 53,000 lb gooseneck trailer behind it "because", all I have to do is tell the DMV in your state is that I want to "upgrade" the weight on my small truck and all is well? Despite the obvious danger to myself and everyone else on the roadway? What state do you live in? I've never heard of that anywhere.

When you initially register a vehicle all the weights are on the document provided to the DMV for registration - you do not fill out that document. How do all those documents get changed because the owner decides he wants a "bigger" truck....on paper?

[Floton]

Whew..... in my state, we can register our trucks for whatever weight we want.

It's just a taxation issue... So I could register a 9000lb GVWR truck for 12,000.

If you want to pay more taxes go for it but it doesn't change the fact that the only numbers that matter are the ones the manufacturer put on the sticker.

[Ken / Claudia]

In Oregon the truck owner tells DMV what their max wt. will be and needs to pay for that. A f550 should pay around 400 per year, a f350 40 per year What's why most f550s are paying f350s wt. rating until stopped and cited. I tried to get DMV people to read the VIN and license the vehicle per what that lists the wt. rating of that vehicle. They will not, I was told it is a police job to check it out. There for, Oregon is loosing Tens of thousands each year in lost tax's needed for roads. And the police are the bad guys for doing what DMV should have done. But, here police are trained about all that stuff and read the fender badging, Fed std sticker, tires wt. rating and weight vehicles and issue out tickets when over wt.. In the end the that costs police and tax payer, even the driver more because DMV will not step up and license a vehicle for true wt. that it was made to carry.

[sourdough]

In Oregon the truck owner tells DMV what their max wt. will be and needs to pay for that. A f550 should pay around 400 per year, a f350 40 per year What's why most f550s are paying f350s wt. rating until stopped and cited. I tried to get DMV people to read the VIN and license the vehicle per what that lists the wt. rating of that vehicle. They will not, I was told it is a police job to check it out. There for, Oregon is loosing Tens of thousands each year in lost tax's needed for roads. And the police are the bad guys for doing what DMV should have done. But, here police are trained about all that stuff and read the fender badging, Fed std sticker, tires wt. rating and weight vehicles and issue out tickets when over wt.. In the end the that costs police and tax payer, even the driver more because DMV will not step up and license a vehicle for true wt. that it was made to carry.

I guess I stand corrected.

It seems very dangerous to let a person decide how "big" they want their truck to be and put them on the road and then wait for law enforcement to catch them if they are overweight. As you pointed out, they can also lose a lot of money because I want to turn in a gvw that's much lighter than my truck so I pay less. Guess in that scenario the owner really does come out on the cheap end and doesn't have to worry about a fine. Just seems odd to me that the state doesn't use all the tools at its disposal to do what it can to assure correct registration on the front end instead of dumping everything on law enforcement which should ultimately be the backstop....

[Ken / Claudia]

I agree is stupid to allow the truck owner to tell DMV how much to license to vehicle at, especially when the VIN tells everyone what the maker says is the max. wt. they made the vehicle to be at. They can have a 8600 lb 3/4 ton and pay for 20,000 lbs. But, that will never allow them to travel on any roadway at that weight. I have never seem anyone do that. Common people will pay less but, never more than required. This applies to 1 tons that are comm vehicles only max wt. 10,000. Than ANY motor vehicle (truck or cargo van) 10,001 to 26,000 lbs. Excludes motorhomes.

[chuckster57]

$40.00/yr for weight fees? I just paid $196.00 last month. Total DMV was $249.00

[Ken / Claudia]

Yes. that is because if 10,000 lbs or less and not used as a comm vehicle. Oregon says it is a passenger vehicle . 86 bucks for 2 years flat fee. The heaviest vehicle I cited with passenger plates was a manufactured home hauler. Why because he told DMV it was a passenger pickup. DMV does not inspect vehicles unless coming in from another state.

[Desert185]

Oregon is like AK in that registration is for two years...and relatively cheap, but they get you everywhere else. I just paid $126 in NV, but $30 of that was for a veteran plate.

[vampress_me]

MN is not far off from Oregon. Here, licensing fees for a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck new are going to be around $400 or so per year. State law says licensing for a 1 ton is $120/year. Only difference is that as the 3/4 ton gets older, the fee goes down like all other vehicles, but 1 ton fee stays at the $120/ year for life of the vehicle. The goofy part is the weights, with a 1 ton (my only experience) you can pick to license it at 10,000 lbs, 12,500 lbs, or 15,000 lbs. The cost isn't different, its still the same $120. On our new truck the door tag show GVWR of 11,500. They licensed it at 15,000. I don't get it. But to me and hubby, the door tag rules what we will tow.

[BlueThunder34]

How much simpler it would be if we all just bought TVs that were adequate to SAFELY tow our trailers, instead of buying something too big for what we have and then try to justify why it's ok because of this or that. The yellow sticker is the legal rating no matter what someone believes their truck can handle. Heck I've seen the Tundra commercial towing the space shuttle so it must be ok to tow anything you or I could buy, right:eek:

[SADLY]

Threads like this are a pretty good example as to why questions like this should be researched at the source (DMV/DOT, etc) rather than asked on the internet.

There are some fairly passionate, yet incorrect answers out there.

[NotyetMHCowner]

How much simpler it would be if we all just bought TVs that were adequate to SAFELY tow our trailers, instead of buying something too big for what we have and then try to justify why it's ok because of this or that. The yellow sticker is the legal rating no matter what someone believes their truck can handle. Heck I've seen the Tundra commercial towing the space shuttle so it must be ok to tow anything you or I could buy, right:eek:

You bring up a good point, we see so many commercials even for duallys, that show how much they can tow. Even so that 1/2 ton truck wouldn't last more than a year or two pulling 11,500. People start thinking they can pull anything with such a small truck.

I see people buying $50k+ campers and towing them with $50k+ trucks (that are over loaded) and act like they "can't" trade up into a more suitable truck. BS!

I love the peace of mind towing our fiver with our dually. There is no sway, no squatting, no fear of losing control because of being overloaded or having 2 few tires in the rear.

[kfxgreenie]

Sooooo

My sticker inside my door says my axles are rated over my GVWR. My tires can handle more than the axle rating, as well as my wheels. Obviously the manufacture says the truck is good for the axle ratings. That means the whole messy situation is something the gubment forced on us again, so we're not "commercial". We all know how anything gubment comes up with works out. :eek::

[BlueThunder34]

I'm sure some airbags and stiffer tires and he'll be just fine.:banghead:

[fla-gypsy]

Exceeding any of the ratings the manufacturer has placed on the vehicle can place you at risk. None of us know why they rate things as they do but we know that each component was given a maximum rating for some reason. It could be as simple as extending the life of the component itself or as serious as creating a life threatening overload. Unless you worked on the engineering team that placed those limits you will not know which is which.

[BlueThunder34]

Exceeding any of the ratings the manufacturer has placed on the vehicle can place you at risk. None of us know why they rate things as they do but we know that each component was given a maximum rating for some reason. It could be as simple as extending the life of the component itself or as serious as creating a life threatening overload. Unless you worked on the engineering team that placed those limits you will not know which is which.

You are right on, and I'm willing to bet that the majority on here do not have the engineering background and degree to accurately debate the true reality of how much over their manufacturers ratings they can safely tow. Is this a heated subject? Yes, for me it is because I have personally responded and cared for those who paid the price of catastrophic failure when a triple axel 5er attached to 3/4 ton turned on its side taking out a loaded Honda Civic with it. Very rare I'm sure but for those involved it was all too real.

[kfxgreenie]

Exceeding any of the ratings the manufacturer has placed on the vehicle can place you at risk. None of us know why they rate things as they do but we know that each component was given a maximum rating for some reason. It could be as simple as extending the life of the component itself or as serious as creating a life threatening overload. Unless you worked on the engineering team that placed those limits you will not know which is which.

We DOOOOOOOOOOOOO know where the 10,000 lb rating came from though, on a 3/4 ton truck. It came from the DOT not the engineer. The axle ratings came from the engineer. Its simple math folks, things don't add up. Again does anything the government runs add up? I know my proposed lower OBAMA care premium, went UP 400% from what I had, not down. Should I still believe everything the government does as gospel? Now I know the OP is over the axles and needs a bigger truck but in some cases these 3/4 ton trucks are severely mismatched.

[JRTJH]

Regardless of "where the 10,000 pound weight rating came from, what DOT decides to say/do, or what any of us "think we should do", it really pretty much boils down to following the manufacturer's guide and not violating the warnings in the owner's manual. I'd strongly suspect that no matter if a "tech writer", a "marketing specialist" or a "monkey" wrote the owner's manual, "somebody of importance" in the engineering department had to "sign off" on it before it was published.

Here's one warning from the 2015 Ford F250/350/450/550 Owner's Manual:

"Do not exceed the GVWR or
the GAWR specified on the
Safety Compliance Certification
Label."

You can find this warning on page 191 in the "TOWING" section. Ford doesn't give owners the option of "choosing GAWR" or "choosing GVWR" and "playing a game of "which one will give the most payload"... Ford simply says "don't exceed the GVWR or the GAWR. So both limits are applicable, regardless of what DOT says, what we "think" or what somebody's brother in law did last week.

It's truly a personal decision that each person has to make, and as long as "nothing serious happens", in all likelihood, nobody will ever be the wiser....

But, if someone does have a serious accident, injures their family or someone else's family, and the investigation reveals that the operator of the vehicle was overloaded, (your choice if whether it's DOT regulations, manufacturer's requirements, state registration documents or, any other document that makes the "overloaded claim", you can bet that it will come up in a civil and/or a criminal court, assuming that someone who was injured hires a lawyer.

I prefer to "control my own destiny" not leave it vulnerable for anyone who can find a loophole in a document to "nail me to the wall".........

So, I'll follow the manufacturer's warning as well as the multiple other requirements.

This is my "opinion" (we all have one): There are enough people out there "looking for a free ride at anybody's expense" that I don't want to "bull-headedly" give them a "free ticket" to my savings account and the keys to everything I've worked for.

[SADLY]

Regardless of "where the 10,000 pound weight rating came from, what DOT decides to say/do, or what any of us "think we should do", it really pretty much boils down to following the manufacturer's guide and not violating the warnings in the owner's manual. I'd strongly suspect that no matter if a "tech writer", a "marketing specialist" or a "monkey" wrote the owner's manual, "somebody of importance" in the engineering department had to "sign off" on it before it was published.

Here's one warning from the 2015 Ford F250/350/450/550 Owner's Manual:

"Do not exceed the GVWR or
the GAWR specified on the
Safety Compliance Certification
Label."

You can find this warning on page 191 in the "TOWING" section. Ford doesn't give owners the option of "choosing GAWR" or "choosing GVWR" and "playing a game of "which one will give the most payload"... Ford simply says "don't exceed the GVWR or the GAWR. So both limits are applicable, regardless of what DOT says, what we "think" or what somebody's brother in law did last week.

It's truly a personal decision that each person has to make, and as long as "nothing serious happens", in all likelihood, nobody will ever be the wiser....

But, if someone does have a serious accident, injures their family or someone else's family, and the investigation reveals that the operator of the vehicle was overloaded, (your choice if whether it's DOT regulations, manufacturer's requirements, state registration documents or, any other document that makes the "overloaded claim", you can bet that it will come up in a civil and/or a criminal court, assuming that someone who was injured hires a lawyer.

I prefer to "control my own destiny" not leave it vulnerable for anyone who can find a loophole in a document to "nail me to the wall".........

So, I'll follow the manufacturer's warning as well as the multiple other requirements.

This is my "opinion" (we all have one): There are enough people out there "looking for a free ride at anybody's expense" that I don't want to "bull-headedly" give them a "free ticket" to my savings account and the keys to everything I've worked for.

Please stop... Just stop.....

Are you an attorney? Are you offering legal advice???

STOP SPECULATING THAT YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT MAY OCCUR.....

If you want to advise people that it's a "good idea" to follow manufacturer recommendations... Feel free to do so...

BUT STOP IMPLYING THAT WEIGHT AND MANUFACTURER RATING MAY HAVE INFLUENCE IN DETERMINING NEGLIGENCE.... You're stating it as if it is a fact and creating a false narrative.

Human action in a specific situation determines negligence....

JUST STOP GIVING LEGAL OPINIONS.

[JRTJH]

Please stop... Just stop.....

Are you an attorney? Are you offering legal advice???

STOP SPECULATING THAT YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT MAY OCCUR.....

If you want to advise people that it's a "good idea" to follow manufacturer recommendations... Feel free to do so...

BUT STOP IMPLYING THAT WEIGHT AND MANUFACTURER RATING MAY HAVE INFLUENCE IN DETERMINING NEGLIGENCE.... You're stating it as if it is a fact and creating a false narrative.

Human action in a specific situation determines negligence....

JUST STOP GIVING LEGAL OPINIONS.

If you wish to not follow this thread, or not read my posts, you're certainly free to completely ignore my opinions and my statements. Thankfully, we do live in a "free society" and I don't see the need to "not say what I think" because you don't think I should. I do hope you have a super day and a wonderful weekend!!!

And I do still maintain that FORD has that warning in the owner's manual for a reason. If you choose not to follow it, so be it.

[sourdough]

"Human action in a specific situation determines negligence".

Knowingly exceeding the manufacturers stated MAXIMUM weights on any vehicle is negligence......period. That's not legal advice, just fact. In a court, with a prosecutor or civil attorney determining how they want to drive the tack so to speak, it can also be considered intent.

No need for legal advice in this debate; on one hand you have the law, which in every state I've lived in limits you to the maximum weights determined by the manufacturer on a vehicle OR weights dictated in state law that outline maximums for gcvwr, length, number of trailers etc., and on the other hand is what you choose to do with that law; abide by it or violate it.....not legal advice, just facts. Choosing to pick a weight for registration purposes (where that is allowed) because you want to save money or tow more than you should does not, and will not, trump the weight placard the manufacturer put on the vehicle.

No one here is trying to give legal advice; just thoughtful, COMMON SENSE advice. The last place you want to be is in a lawyers office seeking legal advice because you've been charged with vehicular manslaughter or negligent homicide. Wouldn't it just be best to make sure your equipment met all the legal guidelines so the charges of "intent" and "negligence" couldn't come at you instead of breaking all the rules hoping for the best and hoping you won't get caught; or kill yourself or someone else?? Sort of like the guy that liked to jump into the freeway in front of oncoming traffic - he was quicker, no one would hit him, it's a game. When he finally got splattered his family carried on about why the driver didn't slow down or swerve to miss him - he was a good kid. What?? He dodged the bullet quite a few times but it finally got him....he got what was coming and he should have known it.

As one of our members posted earlier in this thread; those that feel personal responsibility and act upon it are dwindling at a rapid rate. To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal and it's irresponsible. If you do those things you don't want me on a jury if you happen to cause some terrible thing where I live.

[T3/T4 Hybrid]

What point that JRTJH and sourdough are trying to get across to folks. Who tow overload by the tow and load specs listed by their tow vehicle's manufacture is the possibility or "the what if" that can happen to that operator in the CIVIL legal system and also the CRIMINAL legal system. If the operator would be involved in a crash, wreck or accident "what ever you want to call it" while overloaded and towing on the roadways/byways.

Yes there is a possibility that the said operator of the overloaded vehicle can be held liable in both a criminal and civil courts of law. Plus the possibility to be held liable in a Civil court is so much easier because all the plaintiff (that’s the person who says he was injured by the overloaded RV Operator) has to have is preponderance of evidence. This is a whole different can of worms than the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" used in criminal cases which most people know from all the cop shows on TV.

Basically at the end of a civil case A v. B, 51% of the evidence favors A. Thus, A has a preponderance of the evidence, A has met their burden of proof, and A will win the case.

This is just some food for thought. ;)

Do what you want but if you get caught and the crap goes against you don't cry like a third grade girl getting her pigtails pulled. :rolleyes:

[Ken / Claudia]

Folks, even when you do everything 100% right and follow all laws and still have a incident or a crash happens. If you kill or cause major injury to other persons including those in your vehicle. Even if you have great insurance, you will likely be sued if you own anything. If you give the other side a inch by driving 5 over the speed limit or 1000 lbs over weight. They will take a mile. I have a few stories of real nice people who were 100% right and they still had years of civil suits that will drain your pocket book and might destroy your health. I am not saying you will loose a suit, even when you win it can be a life changing event. I have been sued thru my work and listed in about 8 lawsuits, they start at wanting 200,000 from each person they list.

[sourdough]

Folks, even when you do everything 100% follow all laws and still a incident or crash happens. If you kill or cause major injury to other persons including those in your vehicle. Even if you have great insurance, you will likely be sued if you own anything. If you give the other side a inch by driving 5 over the speed limit or 1000 lbs over weight. They will take a mile. I have a few stories of real nice people who were 100% and they still had years of civil suits that will drain your pocket book and might destroy your health.

I guess that's what those of us that have experience with this are trying to tell those that just don't care. I know several folks whose lives have been destroyed by negligence, bending the rules, or...just didn't care. One made almost 1m a year; now, he has to get a car from the "buy here, pay here" guys, lives in a little apartment and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Wrong choice ;wrong time. The JUDGE sentenced him.

Another; had all his life in front of him. I came across a woman drunk out of her mind sitting across the railroad tracks (back when they came thru at 70 mph - I was 16). I was going to try to get her to her family about 70 miles away. My friend insisted he do it and took her away with me in the back seat (her car). Outside her destination we encountered a traffic circle (I was asleep in the back seat), he chose to drive too fast, not pay attention and was too involved trying to mess with the poor lady (I think). He went right into the circle, hit a Ford Galaxy 500 square in the side with 5 people in it. I woke up to screaming from the Ford; everyone in our car (a Cadillac) was silent. My head was wedged between the front seat and the side of the car. I had been knocked out but managed to get my head out. I pushed my door open and fell out to see people hanging out of the doors of the Ford in various stages of damage and dismemberment. A car stopped and I told them I thought everyone in my car was dead....they looked at me and sped away.

My friend that had wanted to drive was stuck in the windshield; plastered there. The lady I wanted to "save" was lifeless in the middle of the front seat; her neck was broken. A hoped for good deed gone terribly wrong.

The friend sort of bottomed out. He ended up hanging himself in a jail cell.

I started that mess. I only wanted good BUT I let someone that had always bent the rules take control....and he bent them, and he, I, she, our families and our futures all paid the price. Is there any sane reason why anyone would want to do that to themselves, their families, their WIFE or KIDS, or others due to negligence, not dotting the I's and Ts.....just not caring?? If you do, I just don't get it.

[kfxgreenie]

All this is, is a bunch of he said she said BS, until someone can prove with a link a court case, where a 3/4 ton 10,000 lb truck was over GVWR but under axle ratings and under GCWR and had an accident, and was taken to the cleaners by a DA, or Insurance Company. Now I understand if your over GCWR and axle ratings you are negligent, and deserve what you get. But this "those that feel personal responsibility and act upon it are dwindling at a rapid rate. To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal and it's irresponsible. If you do those things you don't want me on a jury if you happen to cause some terrible thing where I live." is just irresponsible if you were a juror that you can not use common sense, that is what America is missing these days. The last thing we need is more damn lawyers. More shooting line executions for real criminals yes, lawyers no.


http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/

How do those payloads, max towing line up between 3500 and 2500 folks? School Me(tx):D:DSTIR POT:wlcm:


I will beat the dead horse, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING, buuuttt it the #'s don't line up with a 3/4 ton truck.

[sourdough]

All this is, is a bunch of he said she said BS, until someone can prove with a link a court case, where a 3/4 ton 10,000 lb truck was over GVWR but under axle ratings and under GCWR and had an accident, and was taken to the cleaners by a DA, or Insurance Company. Now I understand if your over GCWR and axle ratings you are negligent, and deserve what you get. But this "those that feel personal responsibility and act upon it are dwindling at a rapid rate. To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal and it's irresponsible. If you do those things you don't want me on a jury if you happen to cause some terrible thing where I live." is just irresponsible if you were a juror that you can not use common sense, that is what America is missing these days. The last thing we need is more damn lawyers. More shooting line executions for real criminals yes, lawyers no.


http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/


How do those payloads, max towing line up between 3500 and 2500 folks? School Me(tx):D:DSTIR POT:wlcm:


I will beat the dead horse, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING, buuuttt it the #'s don't line up with a 3/4 ton truck.

WHAT!!!

It's already been stated that if you are under either the gvw or gawr of the vehicle things should not go south.

"those that feel personal responsibility and act upon it are dwindling at a rapid rate. To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal and it's irresponsible. If you do those things you don't want me on a jury if you happen to cause some terrible thing where I live." is just irresponsible if you were a juror that you can not use common sense, that is what America is missing these days. The last thing we need is more damn lawyers. More shooting line executions for real criminals yes, lawyers ""

Hmmmm... The folks that actually feel responsibility and act on it is dwindling"....that's a fact, if you don't see or know that then ??

To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal it's irresponsible.....hmmm, just fact and common sense.

If you do those things and I'm on the jury etc...... but it's irresponsible if I take those things into account????? Common sense IS the deciding factor!! You don't need more lawyers, you need more folks with common sense that follow the law!!

Your link is meaningless. What the sticker says is what the sticker says. I'm not sure I'm here to "school" you; that's on you and you probably need to "study up". Your vehement reply indicates that you probably don't fit into the "legal" category and need "vindication" for what you're doing??

[Ken / Claudia]

My direct case of over GVWR and death was about 1995. I-5 Wilsnoville Or. Driver had a either a 3/4 or 1 ton pulling a backhoe. Traveling at least 65. Vehicle speed tests back than showed a min speed but, would normally speeds were higher. As I recall backhoe and trailer was around 20,000 lbs. It has been a few years so, not all this is 100% fact. I think it was 4,000 lbs over max. The trailer brakes either did not work or not did work correctly. He hit stopped traffic and killed 3 of 4 in a car. I did part of the investigation a specialist did the vehicle spec tests. The civil case ended about 2001 when I was out of patrol as a det. The driver owned a farm before the crash not after the case was over. I was told that the other investigator.
I cannot image any trooper on here that has not seem this stuff. Our office did investigate those types of crashes. I heard about some but, not involved.
News stories of crashes will never include facts of vehicle problems that must be examined after obtaining search warrants and days or weeks after to crash to get the information and report done. Ask your local state police or highway patrol about this type of case. The news stories are normally a few basic facts and say the investigation is continuing. Ever hear that. Ever hear the end of that story. Unless you were involved not likely.

[kfxgreenie]

WHAT!!!

It's already been stated that if you are under either the gvw or gawr of the vehicle things should not go south.

"those that feel personal responsibility and act upon it are dwindling at a rapid rate. To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal and it's irresponsible. If you do those things you don't want me on a jury if you happen to cause some terrible thing where I live." is just irresponsible if you were a juror that you can not use common sense, that is what America is missing these days. The last thing we need is more damn lawyers. More shooting line executions for real criminals yes, lawyers ""

Hmmmm... The folks that actually feel responsibility and act on it is dwindling"....that's a fact, if you don't see or know that then ??

To tow overweight is an intentional act, it's illegal it's irresponsible.....hmmm, just fact and common sense.

If you do those things and I'm on the jury etc...... but it's irresponsible if I take those things into account????? Common sense IS the deciding factor!! You don't need more lawyers, you need more folks with common sense that follow the law!!

Your link is meaningless. What the sticker says is what the sticker says. I'm not sure I'm here to "school" you; that's on you and you probably need to "study up". Your vehement reply indicates that you probably don't fit into the "legal" category and need "vindication" for what you're doing??

SOOOO those numbers mean chit, and your unwillingness to even look at them and make a COMMON SENSE DECISION make me irresponsible, thick headed and dumb.....:banghead: 1+1=1 :p Wait that didn't add up. I don't need vindication for what I'm doing. Take me into a scale with a DOT officer and have at it. STIR POT :D

Base Truck 7800
GVWR 10000
Payload 2200
GCWR 25300
Max Tow 17030
RAWR 6000
FAWR 5750
Real World Payload 6000+5750=11750-7800=3950

Soooo as long as the trucks under 11750 and combined under 25300

I pull not anywhere near that. DOT scales by the axle. Let them explain to the courts why they didn't park me for going over the arbitrary 10000 GVWR.

Wait, what I solved that with common core math even.

NOW which bathroom shall I use? :p

[kfxgreenie]

My direct case of over GVWR and death was about 1995. I-5 Wilsnoville Or. Driver had a either a 3/4 or 1 ton pulling a backhoe. Traveling at least 65. Vehicle speed tests back than showed a min speed but, would normally speeds were higher. As I recall backhoe and trailer was around 20,000 lbs. It has been a few years so, not all this is 100% fact. I think it was 4,000 lbs over max. The trailer brakes either did not work or not did work correctly. He hit stopped traffic and killed 3 of 4 in a car. I did part of the investigation a specialist did the vehicle spec tests. The civil case ended about 2001 when I was out of patrol as a det. The driver owned a farm before the crash not after the case was over. I was told that the other investigator.
I cannot image any trooper on here that has not seem this stuff.

That is a common sense case. He was well over the GCWR and axles rating. I AGREE WITH THIS, he should have lost the farm, I'm not arguing those type of cases.

[sourdough]

""All this is, is a bunch of he said she said BS""

This from a previous post and one from one that unfortunately pulls an RV...overweight? Family in tow? The poster IS the picture of why we are all in danger of those that think that weights and "laws" are a "suggestion".

[sourdough]

SOOOO those numbers mean chit, and your unwillingness to even look at them and make a COMMON SENSE DECISION make me irresponsible, thick headed and dumb.....:banghead: 1+1=1 :p Wait that didn't add up. I don't need vindication for what I'm doing. Take me into a scale with a DOT officer and have at it. STIR POT :D

Base Truck 7800
GVWR 10000
Payload 2200
GCWR 25300
Max Tow 17030
RAWR 6000
FAWR 5750
Real World Payload 6000+5750=11750-7800=3950

Soooo as long as the trucks under 11750 and combined under 25300

I pull not anywhere near that. DOT scales by the axle. Let them explain to the courts why they didn't park me for going over the arbitrary 10000 GVWR.

Wait, what I solved that with common core math even.

NOW which bathroom shall I use? :p


Well, It's pretty obvious you can't follow the thread (which again worries thinking folks about your pulling anything more than a U haul trailer).

It has been stated in this thread that you are limited by your vehicle/trailer weights listed for your gvw OR your gawr - your comments about this and that are meaningless.

Sooooo, my truck has a gawr of 12500 and a gvw of 10000. The sticker says my vehicle CANNOT weigh more than 10k. Now, my sticker says my axles say more. In the event of a catastrophic event, in which you, your family and everything you own (your future) is in the balance, do you, as a (hopefully) thinking person, think that a judge, or jury, is going to pick "your " side of the argument - who picks gawr vs gvw - it won't be you? If you're that kind of gambling person I guess you can put you, your family and others at risk....because........??

[Festus2]

Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.

[aksilvy1]

When I first bought my 2500 DURAMAX I thought it would be able to tow anything. I never imagined the trailer I bought would put my truck over any weight restrictions. So this is not about me not caring, it's about me being ignorant and uneducated with towing restrictions.

When I found out I am a little bit over on certain weights I started asking questions. I'm crunched for time with this 6000 mile trip but I am currently looking to trade the truck in or possibly sell the trailer.

I appreciate all the feedback and spirited debate. I will definitely keep you all updated on what I end up doing and how the trip goes.

In the mean time I bought new wheels/tires that are rated for what I am towing so at least I shouldn't have a blow out. Axles might fall off though...

[sourdough]

When I first bought my 2500 DURAMAX I thought it would be able to tow anything. I never imagined the trailer I bought would put my truck over any weight restrictions. So this is not about me not caring, it's about me being ignorant and uneducated with towing restrictions.

When I found out I am a little bit over on certain weights I started asking questions. I'm crunched for time with this 6000 mile trip but I am currently looking to trade the truck in or possibly sell the trailer.

I appreciate all the feedback and spirited debate. I will definitely keep you all updated on what I end up doing and how the trip goes.

In the mean time I bought new wheels/tires that are rated for what I am towing so at least I shouldn't have a blow out. Axles might fall off though...

This HAS been a spirited debate. You asked the right questions for the right reasons. I think you may be just fine, BUT, a 6000 mile trip across the horrible roads you are going to encounter just makes you want to be sure you have everything up to snuff - I'm very worried about your weights...but then I worry about most things. I wish you the very best of luck. The safety of you and your family should be paramount.

[sourdough]

Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.


Safety is paramount to everyone. Those that refuse to abide by established laws or guidelines should be called out; a forum that condones those practices, those that espouse those practices, or just doesn't want to take a position on those practices, when they are obviously wrong....or illegal, is doing a disservice to its members.

I won't have anything else to say about this matter. It is obvious to me that there are far more members here that pull overloaded, knowingly, and think it's great. I just hope that they get to pull half bodies from wreckage or try to console some poor woman with a coke bottle stuck in her eye socket, screaming, while trying to tell her "Its Ok, leave it alone, the ambulance is coming" (she lost her eye and the guy I was trying to "hold" died).

Clueless, self absorbed, unthinking humans infuriate me. And no, I'm not PC nor ever will be. If I need to be banned from this site, which I dearly love, then do so. I will not stop trying to espouse folks to do the right thing. I'm done.... more or less.

[Festus2]

The forum does not condone unsafe practices or those who promote it. What we try to do is encourage our members to be responsible and to encourage them to engage in safe driving practices and to become familiar with guidelines, rules and restrictions that apply to towing an RV.

The forum supports those who "espouse folks to do the right thing". You are not alone in trying to achieve this goal. Having said that, it is important to keep in mind that it be done in an acceptable, courteous, and respectful way - even to those who you feel are "clueless, self-absorbed and unthinking".

We look forward to your continued and positive contributions to the forum.

[fla-gypsy]

This thread reminds me of one of the great axioms of mankind; "Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool".

As part of the management team for a global Fortune 500 company I have specific safety compliance duties and have investigated hundreds of accidents as well as been trained in many safety disciplines. The cardinal rules in all of those is, what does the manufacturer rate the equipment at (published rating) and what do they prescribe is the correct way to operate it (published operations manual).

When you move outside either of those two governing parameters the cause of the accident shifts to the unsafe behavior of the operator. That's all I'm going to say about that.

[BlueThunder34]

Okay gentlemen - enough already! This thread has not only lost sight of its original intent but also become personal. We can all do without the caustic remarks and accusations that are being tossed back and forth. They are both unnecessary and disrespectful.

I am suggesting that you step back, take a deep breath and think before you hit the "SUBMIT" button.

The thread will be closed if it continues to be provocative, argumentative and disrespectful.

What is wrong with a topic being debated and argumentative? I agree with not attacking someone on a personal level but to debate and argue a point is one of the most productive forms of human communication. I don't see anything wrong with members giving examples of why they feel their position is valid, especially when it very well may save someone's life. If you want to shut a thread down then I guess that's your choice, however I feel it would be a disservice and may prevent others from defending their position in the future. Again, yes it needs to not reach a level of personal attacks but heated can be productive. I have as some others pulled the mangled from these types of wrecks and covered the bodies of their family members, so yes if I can get through to one person the importantance of being safe then I will engage an individual when the advice they give others contradicts that. Best of luck to the OP, you obviously do care about your choices and are seeking advice on how to be safe. Im sure we all hope for your safe travel. Good day.

[kfxgreenie]

I will continue the debate, using facts, no name calling, even though I am already the village idiot.

Now I understand all your views, and i believe you understand mine, and I do not condone "overloaded" pulling.

With that said, If you spec a 3500 and do the math all the numbers line up as far as axles to payload to GCWR to max tow. The only difference is in one case the government says if you go over 10,000 you are operating "commercial" and decided that the magical # for commercial is 10,000 lbs, no matter what the engineer has designed the vehicle to operate with a safety factor built in. The other case a 3500 you are considered commercial, even though in most states you do not need a CDL for recreation and can operate up to what the engineer has designed as safe. Again I ask whether anyone has first hand knowledge and proof of an accident that occurred within the gray area's of a 3/4 ton truck, and was prosecuted with a conviction?

With that said I owned my truck before purchasing our RV. Purchased the RV fully knowing weights, and bought one that is light on the PIN, and fit the wants and needs of our buying process, and is operating right near the arbitrary 10000 GVWR. I even went as far to consider how heavy a hitch is and run an Andersen ultimate AL to keep that 100-150 lbs of payload. Also pack as much as i can behind the rear axles. Now I do not fear if I'm a few lbs over my GVWR, but knowing weights pre-purchase kept the rig as close to or below the 10000 lbs as possible. I know the truck was designed to be operated safely at the rear axle to 6000 well over 10000 lbs. I purchased aftermarket wheels and tires for looks, but again went with 3500 lb wheels and tires that are good for 3750 each, again well over the 6000 RAWR of the truck. I consider every ones safety including mine, tow below the speed limit, and within the law. I also ride motorcycle and know how important it is to be a defensive driver, as most problems will arrive from other cagers on the road, not "driving"

2014 Coil Sprung Ram 2500 CC CTD
2012 Cougar 327RES "Advertised" Hitch 1545

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_202646_0_459ec643df641761c5f74fbc7085b3a1.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kfxgreenie/media/image.jpg1_4.jpg.html)

This load is way more dangerous than the RV believe it or not.


http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_202646_1_e54d63233ef3e9d9681ffad5f414e350.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kfxgreenie/media/image.jpg2_1.jpg.html)

And according to legal #'s this truck is way more capable than the one above.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_202646_2_fc7a8be131d413837254d336bc6ed6d7.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kfxgreenie/media/0131161247.jpg.html)

And big mamma will make a person realize how stupid "law abiding" citizens really are.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_202646_3_728e47921afd1ce7ef7692dcb6d49da1.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/kfxgreenie/media/bike048.jpg.html)

So in conclusion I'm not running around clueless, self-absorbed and unthinking. Quite the contrary I have obviously thought my situation fully and made educated purchases to stay within the law, but do not fear IF i was a few lbs over 10000 lbs and had to make a lawyer fight my case.

[CWSWine]

Couple quick comments.

Not sure about this argument about 3/4 ton and 10,000 GVWR is just a tax thing since you can order a brand new Ford F350 SRW with a GVWR at 10,000 to 11,500 with just a click on the order sheet. Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?

There are hundreds of lawyers that are advertizing for cases to take on over weight RVs like this one. http://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html .

When or if you sit as a jury on civil case like I did you will be required to fill out form with a bunch of questions assigning fault. One of the questions on the form was if the vehicle was operated within "Manufactures Specs".

I'm a GVWR person for my safety and since I fund a lot of my retirement I don't want someone else to retire on my retirement and I would have to try live off of Social Security.

[JRTJH]

Couple quick comments.

Not sure about this argument about 3/4 ton and 10,000 GVWR is just a tax thing since you can order a brand new Ford F350 SRW with a GVWR at 10,000 to 11,500 with just a click on the order sheet. Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?

There are hundreds of lawyers that are advertizing for cases to take on over weight RVs like this one. http://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html .

When or if you sit as a jury on civil case like I did you will be required to fill out form with a bunch of questions assigning fault. One of the questions on the form was if the vehicle was operated within "Manufactures Specs".

I'm a GVWR person for my safety and since I fund a lot of my retirement I don't want someone else to retire on my retirement and I would have to try live off of Social Security.

I see ads for "legal services" such as that law firm in many areas of the USA. With the concepts of "Free initial consultation", "We don't get paid unless you get paid", "File a suit for a million, settle for $250 thousand" and "Nobody will fight for you like J Sokolove and Associates"... It's only a matter of time before we all "know somebody who has been touched by the "legal professionals"....

For me and many others, it pretty much boils down to this: "If we don't police ourselves and promote safety within the RV community, the government and the legal system will do it for us."

[sourdough]

I want to apologize for any remarks I have made in this thread that were taken personally. I meant to offend no one and I do take the safety of myself and others seriously.

Some thoughts to ponder that I used to share with my management team while encouraging them to think "safety" at all times;

When an accident begins to unfold it WILL continue until the final results are achieved, whatever they may be. The ONLY time to prevent the accident is BEFORE it happens; once the ball starts rolling there is no pause button; you can't stop it. It may be over in an instant and it may take an eternity. In the end it is going to be what it's going to be.

In every BAD accident I've been in (fatalities/life or death situation) I had no clue of the outcome until I woke up. Thankfully I woke up. No stop button; no re-do; no timeout. What if you didn't wake up? What if you DID wake up but someone you loved didn't?? You have to dot the I's and cross the T's to eliminate everything humanly possible beforehand. Even then you have to dodge bullets of one kind or another that life throws at you; I don't want to be the one sitting back loading more bullets into the chamber......

[kfxgreenie]

Couple quick comments.

Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?



Better question, why does the government not allow manufactures to rate trucks to there real capability's? If that was the case we wouldn't have 1 ton SRW.:confused:

[CWSWine]

Better question, why does the government not allow manufactures to rate trucks to there real capability's? If that was the case we wouldn't have 1 ton SRW.:confused:

There is some sort of difference between F250 and F350. A guy at the camp site had 2016 F250 with camper special with over load springs. When he sets a Cougar with a 2600lbs pin the front end of the over load spring is firmly contact with the leafs and the overloads are in play. When I set my 3180 pin Montana on 2015 F350 I'm about 3/8 of inch from making contact to the over load springs. He need air bags to get level and mine was level without them.

[kfxgreenie]

For common sense debate sakes, and to keep this thread going, could we get a law maker to "straighten" things out hypothetically?

A 250 2500 should be SRW Rated to its capacity
A 350 3500 should be DRW Rated to its capacity

All DRW should be considered commercial if it has DW you need a CDL
Most SRW are under the Current 26001 GCWR CDL
Most DRW are over the Current 26001 GCWR CDL

And for safety's sake, scale all trucks towing any trailer over 5000 lb's GVWR regardless 1/2, 3/4, or 1 ton TV, to the manufacture engineered rated GVWR GCWR and park/ticket them if overweight PERIOD.

GO!

[Ken / Claudia]

After on last post I had to think awhile about the question of a 3/4 over loaded pulling a RV and civil suits involved. I cannot think of any here that happened. But, in brief, I did have a overloaded utility trailer pulled by a mid size SUV. Trailers tires blew on drivers side. He crashed lost part of load which caused 2 more crashes. Minor injuries. I cited for reckless driving(crime). I did go the a tort hearing he was sued. Unknown outcome of that suit.
Another overloaded utility trailer pulled by a CJ jeep. Flipped and went across oncoming lanes. He was charged reckless driving and assault. I never knew if a civil case happened.
Last was a 70s 1/2 ton with same type year TT around 20 ft. Truck also loaded with about 1/3 bed with firewood. Steep down grades on that highway. Driver crossed over center of road on a 35mph curve as a motorcycle was oncoming. Motorcyle rider was run over by all driver side tires of truck and trailer. I pointed out to lead investigator truck was overloaded due to trailer and or wood. Anyone could see that by the rear of the truck lower down with the weight. Weeks later investigator told me driver was having problems controlling the vehicles and was overweight. He was charging driver with the death and reckless driving. Unknown of any civil trial as I retired 3 years later and never was involved in the case further.

[chuckster57]

Why do they even make 3/4 tons other then people believe 1 ton rides a lot worse?
Same reason they make 1/2 tons, same reason they make tent trailers, 15' trailers up to 45' trailers, Class A, B, C and Super C motorhomes.

We as consumers demand choices, and the manufacturers are doing their best to appeal to everyone. What if the only truck you could buy was a 1/2 ton? What if the only choice was a 1 ton DRW? Thank goodness we still have the ability to choose, and along with that comes the responsibility to choose the correct combination. Do many choose the wrong combination? yeah, I see it every day. Some do out of lack of information, and some do in total disregard of everybody else sharing the road.

I try to educate anybody that asks, and once they have the information it's up to them to process it in whatever manner they see fit. as far as the "what if.." argument that some seem to say isn't valid, I can only ask if they have a special talent that they can tell the future. Every time you get into a vehicle and go down the road, your rolling the dice. I prefer not to roll craps if I can help it. ANY thing I can do to minimize the possibility of loss I will do and tell anybody that asks the same thing.