I'm a believer!!

[sourdough]

I read the tires thread all the time and have always wondered how so many folks had so much trouble with trailer tires. When I owned trailers in the past (many years ago) I just didn't have trouble with the tires. I will say that I only made shorter trips and didn't keep a trailer more than a couple of years. I just figured "keep them aired, balanced, no abuse" and I would be fine for a reasonable time period; well.............

I bought my trailer on March 1 2014. The tires are dated 0913 (looked at today) and I had about 7500 miles on them. I had had my local tire dealership go to my storage facility, pull the tires/wheels to inspect and re-pack all the bearings a couple of weeks ago. They said the tires looked really good (and they did). I had the tires inspected due to the concerns raised by this forum and others. They looked OK to me but wanted a second set of eyes on them. The tires are Trailer King ST225 75 15.


Today we left for FL with high hopes, excited about the trip and the fun about to be had. Fifty (50) miles from our house I heard a buzzing sound and looked in the mirror to see cream colored "something" coming out from behind the trailer. I shut it down and walked around. I thought I must be imagining things until I looked closer at the right rear tire.....there was no tread and little black strings were hanging down into the wheel well. Closer inspection revealed that the tread had simply detached from the entire tire. I looked up into the top of the wheel well and saw a hole about 18" long eaten through the bottom wood layer, the insulation and it had started eating on the underside of the flooring. I was pretty shocked that what appeared to be a good tire just disintegrated. Good Sam roadside assistance was not helpful so changed the tire and drove back home. We now have repairs scheduled for the RV.

I stole the line from a Monkeys song "I'm a believer" because now I am. The China bombs DO just self destruct for no rhyme or reason. I had told my wife about all that I had read about the Chinese tires and we had decided to replace them when we returned from this trip. I was just going to "make one more trip" because they looked so good and I hated to waste money. BAD CHOICE!

For those thinking/pondering about this and wondering if you should replace them.....do it before something bad happens. Our experience, and damage, could have been much worse if the entire tread had not wrapped around the axle and kept it from doing further damage. I have asked the dealership to get me 5 Maxxis M8008 ST Radial tires to replace everything on it. Should have done so sooner - just hard headed I guess. I know many, many have had these issues....guess it was my time to learn. On the bright side; my wife pointed out that I still had 6 weeks of therapy left from a total knee revision they did a few weeks ago so I could get back to that:banghead:

Below is a pic of what to expect from these things. Just be proactive like I wasn't (I was fanatical about 65psi on the dot, not in direct sunlight in our storage unit, always balanced etc. but it didn't help).

[theallde]

Thanks for the post so that others don't have the experience that you had.

The good side of the story is that no one was hurt and damage was minimal compared to "what it could have been".

[JRTJH]

Danny,

Sorry about your negative experience !!! So far this year, we haven't got the Cougar out of the pole barn yet (Still freezing at night here and snow last week). Hopefully this weekend we will get the snowmobiles and the boat/trailer swapped out and start getting ready for summer.

My plan is to get new tires installed before even de-winterizing. Ours is a 2014, bought in July, 2013 with tires dated March 2013. Even though they are "not yet 5 years old", they are the same age (give or take a month or so) as yours. I've been "tempted" to make our ritual fishing trip to the UP on the current tires and then "fudge" for a big part of the summer. Based on your unfortunate experience, I'm back to my original plan to replace the tires "late this week or first part of next week"...

Again, sorry for your problems, but also, thanks for sharing. Your experience is a reminder to all of us to stay ahead of the damage that we know is "right around the corner" with these Chinese ST tires...............

Hopefully your repairs will be finished and new tires installed by the time you finish your next round of PT...........

Thanks for the reminder not to push luck past its limits !!!

[sourdough]

Thanks John.

What happened was totally unexpected after going to the extent I had to make sure they were going to be serviceable. No indication whatsoever of what was to come. The temp was 53 degrees and I was driving 65mph on a flat, rural West Texas road. It looks like the tread on these things are just not attached to the sidewalls or body of the tire...or ?

I think if I was in your shoes I would replace them as well. This is a well known and documented issue. I just thought "It won't get me"; I've taken extra steps to be sure they're OK.... Didn't work. Like others have observed, they are just ticking time bombs waiting to get you.

I don't know what you plan to buy but I spent the afternoon looking for replacements. Seemed Carlisle has a new radial (made in China) that has mixed reviews, and they have a tire made in the US but still has mixed reviews. I looked at the Goodyear Marathons but apparently they have moved them back to China and their reviews are mixed. The only trailer tire I found with reviews head and shoulders above the others was the Maxxis. I'm going with the E rated tires and I found them on Amazon for $130 each with free shipping. I'm sure the dealer will be more with installation etc. Of course, I saw some Trailer King tires for about $75......... In this case I don't think I'm at all interested in a "cheaper" deal.

I'm working with the service manager at the dealer to try to expedite the repairs and get me out in time to get to FL for my granddaughter's high school graduation on May 28. If he can get me out in a couple of weeks maybe I can "skip" more PT:):)

[bdaniel]

I had Trailer Kings but I don't now.

Read about my experience with those tires here: http://www.bobbystuff.com/rv/192/another-exploding-st-tire

Keep the old tire pieces and file a claim. China paid me enough so I could repair the damage myself and still have enough money to buy 4 new Michelin Load Range E LT tires.

Apparently it is cheaper to occasionally pay a $2-3k claim than build quality tires.

Bobby

[rwmurphy15]

I just had my Fuzion inspected. Service tech also said tires look very good. I ask him if he could get Carslise tires. He said yes but would have to order them. My Trailer Kings are 3 1/2 years old approx 3500-4000 miles on them. I liked the Carlisle Trail RH tires because of the heat shield they claim to have in there tires. I have 2 long trips this summer and was starting to get scared of the Trailer Kings so I pulled the trigger and replaced them. After reading a lot of posts on trailer King tire failures I felt it was better to spend $ 700.00 than having to wait all summer to get damaged fixed on my rv because of a tire failure. Money well spent.

[sourdough]

I think you did the right thing. I was sort of thinking about the tire you bought but there were quite a few reviews that put me off. On the other hand, trying to find a good trailer tire is like looking for a needle in a haystack; and, I'm afraid that no matter what you choose it's just the luck of the draw.

[dcg9381]

Sorry to hear that this happened - hopefully there is no serious damage.
Do everyone a favor and file an NHTSA complaint - TireKing seems to be a recent re-brand of a well know tire. I know that the NHTSA site is where I go to check the reliability of tires.

[buzzcop63]

We read so many reports from trailer owners that have experienced catastrophic loss of air in their trailer tires, blowouts! Discussions have gone on and on as to why tires on our trailers are failing and the reason most give is because they are made in China and are cheap tires.

The tire being brought in our DOT approved, they are rated according to standards they must pass so if these tires are meeting US standards then why are they not holding up? Lets take a look at what we expect and receive in our car and or truck tires, which we put on and seem for the most part to forget. Car and truck tries have PSI maximums above what we normally run in them, say your pick up has tires rated at 44 PSI at max and the manufacture of the vehicle has them running at 30 PSI front 33 PSI rear. Each tire on the pickup is said to have a max carrying capacity of 2,469Lb and the truck normally weights in at 5,560 pounds or less so the average weight on each tire is 1,390Lb or 56% of rated load. The speed maximum for this truck tire is listed as 118MPH.

Now think about what the trailer tire is being asked to do by the trailer manufacture. That trailer tire is being run at its max PSI to carry as much weight as possible. The speed stipulated on the trailer tire is max of 65MPH and that it what the tire is being run at, max speed and max PSI. The trailer tire has a limit to what it can carry and when you weigh your trailer and find that each tire is supporting as much as 70% of its max weight rating while your truck tire is carrying 56% of its weight, truck is running at 55% of its speed and the trailer tires are turning at 100% of their rated speed. The truck in this case is running 20% lower PSI then its max rating. The conclusion that I reach is that it is not the tires that are failing the trailer it is the trailer manufacture putting on tires that are being run at or close to their max specifications to keep the price down or make larger profits.

What I have also read is that the tires we have on our trailer when put on light duty trailers last for years and have few problems, why, because their specifications match up much closer to the tires on our trucks and cars for margins of safety far greater then what we get with our trailers. Think of taking your car or truck, loading it to its max weight and then some, running it at its top rated speed, how long would those tires hold up?

The facts and numbers were taken off my Tundra Bridgestone Dueler H/T P255/70R18 112T and Towmax Power King tires on my trailers.

[dcg9381]

The bottom line is that it's about money. China is capable of manufacturing a high quality tire. Trailer Kings run what, $75/each while Sailun is going to run a solid $140 or more. People buy trailers for floorplan/features, not (typically) considering tire quality - at least not until they've owned a few.

[mfifield01]

Are the Carlisle tires made in USA? I had a Carlisle blow on my boat trailer 2 years ago. It wasn't a heat or speed issue. I was driving at 55 mph and less than 10 miles from my house.

[sourdough]

Are the Carlisle tires made in USA? I had a Carlisle blow on my boat trailer 2 years ago. It wasn't a heat or speed issue. I was driving at 55 mph and less than 10 miles from my house.

From what I was researching yesterday all of their tires are made in China with the exception of one; it has USA in the tire name and is pretty new from what I gathered.

buzzcop63 hit the nail on the head. Although I think the tire issue I had Monday is a defective tire (I had the service manager at CW look at it and he said it was a defective tire if he had ever seen one - and he worked for Pirelli for 10 years), the rating of the tires put on the trailers should be considered dangerous if not illegal. The gvw on my trailer is 10k lbs. My tires are rated at 2540lbs each - a 160 lb. cushion if I was running at max gvw - which I'm not, I'm at 9354. Most of the other trailers have a similar margin. To run at 100% inflation at 100% load at max speed is asking for trouble. Thankfully my wheels are rated for an E tire (2830 lbs) which will give me more breathing room but still nothing like the margins you have on an unloaded vehicle.

[buzzcop63]

Les Schwab, new tire out the door, $139.64 mounted on rim, 9/21/2015, ST225/75R-15, locked up brake on one tire causing flat spot, so replaced. Could have sold me any tire but according to tire dealer the Towmax was a good replacement.

Dealer manager said failures of tires they see from RV's are due to speed, too much weight and not keeping watch on PSI. My trailer is light at 5,500 Lb when attached to truck, 6,100 Lb sitting by itself, scale weights. 1,375 Lb per tire when trailer is attached to our truck, 2,540 is max weight for each tire, margin of safety is 1,165 Lb or 45%. Next Cougar up in size uses same tire, lower safety margin as trailer model weights go up.

[sourdough]

Thought I would see if I could post some pics of the tire that fell apart.

From looking at it it appears these things are made like the cheap retreads from the 50s. The tread itself is either "free floating" or attached to the carcass in a VERY weak manner. The tread appears to be attached to the sidewalls by some form of vulcanizing? that literally rips like a perforated paper right down the edges. Don't know but looking at the "innards" scares the pants off me to have a single one on the ground....which I won't in the future.

[larry337]

I have a 2015 Cougar and put about 5-6000 miles on it last year. This year will be similar. My tires appeared to be perfect but I reluctantly replaced them about a month ago because of the China bomb horror stories. I felt I may be a little too cautious but reading this makes me glad I did it. I bought Maxxis tires mounted and balanced with metal valve stems. 235/80-16. Then I threw the trailer kings on craigslist and sold them in 2 days for $150.

[440justin]

Thanks for sharing, I have the same factory tires on my 2013 23RB and have really been thinking this is the year to replace. I have 8,000 trouble free miles, but the big trip this summer is going across South Dakota so I think I want to upgrade before then.

I have 225/75R15 in a D range, with my current trailer gross at 5420#, but she is rated for 6800#. So I am really thinking about the Maxxis M8008 in D or E range. Really really thinking to spend the extra $70 for the set of four to go with the E's.

I would love to go with LT's but the 15" rim sure limits me. Through this site it sounds like Maxxis are the way to go.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[sourdough]

If I had a 5vr or 16" wheels I would probably go with an LT. I'm giving the Maxxis a try; $180 a wheel installed, Maxxis and CW warranty, 5 tires. If these can't make it I'm going with ProComp 37x13.50 :eek:

[sourdough]

Update: I won't be going with the Maxxis tires. They give a 3-5 business day timeframe and I want to be back on the road by Monday or so. CW said they could get the new Carlisle HD in a few hours so that's what I'm going with and hoping for the best.

The service manager at CW, who also worked with tires at Pirelli, said his family had 5 trailers and they all ran Carlisle. They had ran other tires as well but not to have any expectations for a trailer tire. In their experience they expected to replace their trailer tires every 2 years - no matter the brand. You might get a set that will last many years but that was an exception. Guess I'll find out in a few days.

[slow]

Maxxis ST Radial M8008 or Carlisle Radial Trails? This is the debate I have been having in my mind:

Local sources for the Carlisle Radial Trails from a tire dealer I really like dealing with. Maxxis ST Radial M8008 have to be ordered online and then get the same tire dealer to mount and balance the Maxxis.

BUT, NHTSA lists 57 complaints for the Carlisle Radial Trails and does not even list the Maxxis tires on their website. Does that mean that none of the Maxxis tires (not just M8008s) have had no complaints?

[dcg9381]

nhtsa doesn't list Maxxas as a brand, you need to know that they're made by Ching Shin. Search under that brand and see what comes up.

[sourdough]

Maxxis ST Radial M8008 or Carlisle Radial Trails? This is the debate I have been having in my mind:

Local sources for the Carlisle Radial Trails from a tire dealer I really like dealing with. Maxxis ST Radial M8008 have to be ordered online and then get the same tire dealer to mount and balance the Maxxis.

BUT, NHTSA lists 57 complaints for the Carlisle Radial Trails and does not even list the Maxxis tires on their website. Does that mean that none of the Maxxis tires (not just M8008s) have had no complaints?

I am getting the Carlisle Radial Trail HD. They don't differentiate between the variations of the Radial Trail on the NHTSA site so don't know. Hoping they will be OK. If I were you, I would be all over the Maxxis if you have the time for someone to get them to you. If I weren't in such a rush to get to FL I would have waited for them to come in. Hope I'm not throwing $800 away, but, that doesn't mean much to us compared to missing my granddaughter's graduation:)

[mfifield01]

Do you know the difference between the Carlisle Trail HD and RH?

[slow]

nhtsa doesn't list Maxxas as a brand, you need to know that they're made by Ching Shin. Search under that brand and see what comes up.

Thanks for the guidance to getting info on the Maxxis tires.

Per the NHTSA, Ching Shin had a recall in 1977 for a labeling problem and 7 customer complaints with the most recent in 2010. Of the 7 customer complaints, only 2 were related to trailer tires with both reported in 2009.

Pretty impressive!

[slow]

Do you know the difference between the Carlisle Trail HD and RH?

I do not see a Trail HD on the Carlisle website, only on Discount Tire's website. Is it a new product?

[mfifield01]

I do not see a Trail HD on the Carlisle website, only on Discount Tire's website. Is it a new product?
I'm not sure. I went to the Carlisle website to compare, but I didn't find it either.

[RLM5150]

I'm not sure. I went to the Carlisle website to compare, but I didn't find it either.

It may be a Discount Tire exclusive model.

[dcg9381]

Thanks for the guidance to getting info on the Maxxis tires.


I suspect that most people don't know how to file a complaint for that brand... It took me a bit of time to figure it out.

Not saying that the Maxxas is a bad tire at all...

[sourdough]

Looking at the NHTSA stats it seems kind of glaring to me that the Ching Shen tires have virtually no complaints. That leads me to believe folks don't know how to file them against that company. On the other hand, when I read the reviews for all the trailer tires, the reviews on the Maxxis are much, much better than for Carlisle or Goodyear and the reason that I wanted them.

As far as the Carlisle Radial Trail HD, I'm like the rest of you. I see them on discount tire but the Carlisle website did not have them. The service manager at CW is getting them for me. I told him I had them located at discount tire and he said not to worry, he had them located at "their warehouse"? Don't know what that means but it indicated to me that it wasn't from discount tire.

[JRTJH]

Well, I got my Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires installed today. The tires that were on the Cougar were 225 75R15 LRD and the new ones are 225 75R15 LRE. Load/Speed rating marked on the tires is 117M. That relates to 2830 @80 PSI with a Speed limitation of M which is 81MPH. They were all manufactured in MEIXIAN, GUANGDONG CHINA (code AQHH, which is Carlisle Tire and Wheel, LTD) in week 50 of 2015. Total cost was $466.80 OTD, mounted and balanced with new valve stems.

I'm glad I decided to change out the tires. I kept the old ones thinking I'd either keep them for the flatbed trailer or sell them for a few bucks each. As I was unloading them into the pole barn, I noticed that two of them had "bubbles" under the tread. They aren't visible from outside the tire and no way, when they are mounted to even see it, but there is definitely thread separation from the carcass on two tires. It measures about 10" in length and runs the entire width of the "crown" inside the tire, from sidewall to sidewall.

I'm guessing that sourdough's tread separation started very similar to what I see on those two. The only way to see the defect is with the tires dismounted. When they are on the wheel, the tread appears normal....

I feel much better knowing the expense of 4 new tires wasn't "just for giggles" and since seeing these "bubbles" I'm even more inclined to not want to use Trailer King tires on anything !!!!!

[sourdough]

"Well, I got my Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires installed today. The tires that were on the Cougar were 225 75R15 LRD and the new ones are 225 75R15 LRE. Load/Speed rating marked on the tires is 117M. That relates to 2830 @80 PSI with a Speed limitation of M which is 81MPH. They were all manufactured in MEIXIAN, GUANGDONG CHINA (code AQHH, which is Carlisle Tire and Wheel, LTD) in week 50 of 2015. Total cost was $466.80 OTD, mounted and balanced with new valve stems."

Wow! I need to shop at your store JRTJH! Initially the CW service mgr. told me $120 per tire plus $30 each for mounting/balancing/stems. I told him discount tire sold them for $111 plus $16 for installation. He said we'll meet in the middle at $115 and still $30 for installation. Didn't have the time or patience to haggle.

John, was your price for 4 or 5?

Your findings on your tires pretty much confirms my belief that the tread on these tires are not attached in a satisfactory manner to the carcass of the tire. That's the reason I'm going to dissect 1 or 2 of my old ones when I get them back. It also explains why the tire store thought they were in great shape when they pulled them; they were all at full inflation pressure. Thanks for sharing.

[JRTJH]

"Well, I got my Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires installed today. The tires that were on the Cougar were 225 75R15 LRD and the new ones are 225 75R15 LRE. Load/Speed rating marked on the tires is 117M. That relates to 2830 @80 PSI with a Speed limitation of M which is 81MPH. They were all manufactured in MEIXIAN, GUANGDONG CHINA (code AQHH, which is Carlisle Tire and Wheel, LTD) in week 50 of 2015. Total cost was $466.80 OTD, mounted and balanced with new valve stems."

Wow! I need to shop at your store JRTJH! Initially the CW service mgr. told me $120 per tire plus $30 each for mounting/balancing/stems. I told him discount tire sold them for $111 plus $16 for installation. He said we'll meet in the middle at $115 and still $30 for installation. Didn't have the time or patience to haggle.

John, was your price for 4 or 5?

Your findings on your tires pretty much confirms my belief that the tread on these tires are not attached in a satisfactory manner to the carcass of the tire. That's the reason I'm going to dissect 1 or 2 of my old ones when I get them back. It also explains why the tire store thought they were in great shape when they pulled them; they were all at full inflation pressure. Thanks for sharing.

I have never had the Trailer King spare on the ground, it's 3 years old and my intention is to never use it. If I do need to put it on the ground, it'll be to the next tire shop where I plan to buy two (to replace both tires on the affected side). So, I feel comfortable with it as a "limited spare" knowing it won't be on the ground more than a few miles, to the next town.

The $466.80 was for four tires. I did have a quote from another tire store in town for $588 for four, but after looking, I found them much cheaper, across the street. I was concerned they may be the "old model" or "already be 2 years old, etc, but apparently some stores are significantly less expensive than others. The tires list on Amazon for $86.51 with free shipping, a total of $346.04 for four. Most anyone will mount/balance them for $15-20 each, so CW is quoting you a pretty "steep" price. However, not having the time until you leave and knowing you won't have to "deal with shipping and finding someone to install them" makes the price a bit less painful..... Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-Radial-Trail-Trailer-Tire/dp/B0055BPQXK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1462586295&sr=8-5&keywords=carlisle+ST+tires

If you want pictures of the "inside bubble" let me know and I'll try to get some in the morning.

[sourdough]

Thanks! I would appreciate any pics. I think they will confirm what I think.

CW is not the place to buy tires and have them mounted...I just don't have the time to try and negotiate all the things needed to keep the price down. CW is too high on tire prices and installation but they are coordinating all repairs, insurance, tires etc. so I'm just going with it.

[JRTJH]

I'll get the pictures in the morning. Hopefully I can get the lighting correct so the bubbles show properly.

[sourdough]

I'll get the pictures in the morning. Hopefully I can get the lighting correct so the bubbles show properly.

I really appreciate that. Maybe your photos and my dissection will shed some light on this anomaly. I hope I have time to dissect the tires and look into this before we have to leave for FL, but if not, I will continue on this to see what we can find.

[slow]

.............. As I was unloading them into the pole barn, I noticed that two of them had "bubbles" under the tread. They aren't visible from outside the tire and no way, when they are mounted to even see it, but there is definitely thread separation from the carcass on two tires. It measures about 10" in length and runs the entire width of the "crown" inside the tire, from sidewall to sidewall.

I'm guessing that sourdough's tread separation started very similar to what I see on those two. The only way to see the defect is with the tires dismounted. When they are on the wheel, the tread appears normal....


Yikes!

So much for getting a false sense of security by visually inspecting the exterior of the tires and proper daily maintenance.

Thanks for sharing this very important insight.

I wonder if the bubbles develop over time or if they existed when they came out of the mold? (My experience with some offshore suppliers is that they are not always the most detail orientated when it comes to verifying the quality of the products they produce and we therefore contract third party on-site service providers to be our "eyes" at those offshore facilities.)

[JRTJH]

OK, sorry it took so long, but I got busy with some dirt work and just not got back to the house... Anyway, here are 8 pictures of the tire "bubbles". As you can see, dismounted and not inflated, there is a small "indentation along the edge of the tread. That was not apparent when the tires were mounted and inflated. The tread appeared to be round, smooth and adhered to the tire carcass.

Looking at the inside of the tire, it's readily apparent that the tread is separated from the carcass. In one picture you can see (hopefully) three distinct separations, the first is about 6", next is about 5" and the last is about 5" in diameter.

Absolutely none of this is visible, even with a close inspection of the tire when it's mounted on a wheel. Even removing the tire from the trailer, inspecting it as you roll it along, feeling the tread, it isn't detectable.

I'm very happy that I found this before I lost the tread at 50 MPH and destroyed the wheel well on my trailer.

Any questions, comments or more pictures, I'll be happy to try to get you the information you want....

[JRTJH]

Here are a few more: The bubble I described last night as about 10" long, today in better light, I'd say is the two 5" bubbles that are adjacent to each other. It's obvious to me that these tires would not have survived this summer without "self destructing".....

[sourdough]

Thanks!

Wow! I'm glad you didn't take off on those things. There's no way you would have got far without some serious damage....and possible multiple tire failures. It confirms exactly what I suspected on mine. When you looked at the body of the tire after the tread came off it is obvious that the tread is not attached in a correct manner - it literally just separated right off the carcass like it had zippers.

I'm going to pick up the trailer from CW this afternoon. They were supposed to hold the old tires for me so I could inspect them. I wouldn't have known to look for this so now I will.

These things cause too much damage for them to be installed on anything.JMO

[JRTJH]

All the best with picking up your repaired trailer. Here's hoping it's all satisfactory to you. Out of curiosity, if you can, get the date code from your tires and the plant code. It's possible our tires were made the same time frame and it's a bad batch. If so, with that information, other members can check their date of manufacture and be more critical with their tire inspections.

[sourdough]

All the best with picking up your repaired trailer. Here's hoping it's all satisfactory to you. Out of curiosity, if you can, get the date code from your tires and the plant code. It's possible our tires were made the same time frame and it's a bad batch. If so, with that information, other members can check their date of manufacture and be more critical with their tire inspections.

Well, all is not complete on the repairs but the critical parts are and I have new tires. They could not get the new underbelly installed but the original one was just "scuffed" by the tire tread so it is still serviceable; the Geico adjuster just wanted the entire underbelly replaced to be sure.

I thought that you had posted what your old tires were but couldn't find it. My Trailer Kings were manufactured by Shandong Yongsheng Rubber Co. Ltd in Dongying, Shandong province, China (JEJK); manufacture date 0813. They have MANY tire plants in the Shandong province so that may shed some light on the "China bomb" thing. Were yours from the same plant? The new Carlisle's are made by Carlisle Tire, Meixian, Guandong, China (AQHH); manufacture date 0916, so they are pretty fresh tires. 225 75R15 LRE.

I had insisted on the Radial Trail HD vs RH due to the indication it was a newer style, but upon review, I think they may be the same tire. I thought it might be a tire made specifically for Discount Tire but the CW service manager said he didn't have to get them there they had them at "his" warehouse. The tire does have HD after the Radial Trail but in smaller letters. Don't know but betting they are the same.

I had also asked the service manager to hold my tires so I could inspect them. He was gone Saturday as they were trying to get my trailer out for me and I guess it got miscommunicated. All they left me was the new spare and one of the other tires - I haven't found anything on it. I asked the service advisor where the other 3 tires were and he said "one was destroyed and the other two were bad so we got rid of them"!! He said he thought I might have some use for the good ones. I told him that's exactly why I wanted, and had asked for, ALL of them - to inspect them - I had no use for any of them other than that. He apologized and said he didn't know. So it looks like there may be some sort of issue with these tires from this company from this plant (if yours is the same) or possibly the Shandong manufactured tires - or maybe just a bad batch?

I'm hoping between getting the Carlisle brand, a different tire manufacturer in China and a heavier tire things will be OK. If not, looks like all the RVrs are going to have to chip in to build our own plant to make Made in the USA RV tires to get something decent.

[JRTJH]

sourdough,

My Trailer King tires were made at the same plant (JEJK) with a date code of 2113. The load rating/speed rating is 113/108L. That confuses me somewhat, in that 113 is 2535 and 108 is 2205. I "wonder" if the tires were rated at 2535 at 65MPH and 2205 at 75MPH (speed rating L) ??

At any rate, they are no longer on my Cougar, I'm very happy to have found the defective tires before any blowout/damage was incurred. I'm comfortable with the new tires, even though I'd have preferred not to spend the money this year, better spending it on new tires than on insurance deductibles..........

As for the RH/HD designation on the Carlisle tires, The only place I've seen the HD is at Discount Tire's website. All the ones I priced and actually "laid hands on" in stores around here have been RH. They are rated the same (from what I can tell, even though the Discount Tire chart shows them with a different speed rating. RH is 117N (2833 at 87MPH) and the HD is 117M (2833 at 81MPH). That data is from the Discount Tire website charts on the individual tires, but conflicts with what is actually molded into the sidewall of my tires. Mine indicate the RH is 117M, which is probably the same as yours indicate... So ???? I'd guess, like you, that they are actually the same tire and that the info on Discount Tire's website is incorrect..... Just my guess :)

[sourdough]

sourdough,

My Trailer King tires were made at the same plant (JEJK) with a date code of 2113. The load rating/speed rating is 113/108L. That confuses me somewhat, in that 113 is 2535 and 108 is 2205. I "wonder" if the tires were rated at 2535 at 65MPH and 2205 at 75MPH (speed rating L) ??

At any rate, they are no longer on my Cougar, I'm very happy to have found the defective tires before any blowout/damage was incurred. I'm comfortable with the new tires, even though I'd have preferred not to spend the money this year, better spending it on new tires than on insurance deductibles..........

As for the RH/HD designation on the Carlisle tires, The only place I've seen the HD is at Discount Tire's website. All the ones I priced and actually "laid hands on" in stores around here have been RH. They are rated the same (from what I can tell, even though the Discount Tire chart shows them with a different speed rating. RH is 117N (2833 at 87MPH) and the HD is 117M (2833 at 81MPH). That data is from the Discount Tire website charts on the individual tires, but conflicts with what is actually molded into the sidewall of my tires. Mine indicate the RH is 117M, which is probably the same as yours indicate... So ???? I'd guess, like you, that they are actually the same tire and that the info on Discount Tire's website is incorrect..... Just my guess :)

I agree with you; I suspect they are the same tire. Our episodes are over and my takeaway is that Trailer Kings won't be a part of my RV life and anything coming from Shandong tire co. is a non starter for me.

[JRTJH]

Agreed, for us, the events are pretty much over. Hopefully you'll get your trailer back soon and be on your way to summer travels very soon.

For anyone reading this thread that has 225 75R15 LRD Trailer King tires that were made in "early 2013" (date code 0113 through about 3513) with a "DOT code of JEJK, you might want to pay particular attention to your tires. Inspection of tires on the vehicle and off the vehicle (inflated on the wheel) will not reveal a possible tread delamination. I posted pictures in this thread that will demonstrate the serious potential for the tires to "self destruct" while towing your trailer. The original poster, sourdough, also posted pictures of his tire that did self destruct damaging his trailer.

If you're tires are in this group (there may very well be others as well) I'd urge you to pay very close attention to your tires and consider whether or not you really want to risk RV damage by continuing to use the tires.

Good Luck, all.

[Outback 325BH]

After reading about all the ST tire problems others have had, and knowing several people that have had blow-outs that caused camper damage, I upgraded my wheels and tires when I brought my new rig home.

I bought new 16" Selden wheels (matched the original wheels) and Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires. This is an issue I no longer worry about.


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[Desert185]

Agreed, for us, the events are pretty much over. Hopefully you'll get your trailer back soon and be on your way to summer travels very soon.

For anyone reading this thread that has 225 75R15 LRD Trailer King tires that were made in "early 2013" (date code 0113 through about 3513) with a "DOT code of JEJK, you might want to pay particular attention to your tires. Inspection of tires on the vehicle and off the vehicle (inflated on the wheel) will not reveal a possible tread delamination. I posted pictures in this thread that will demonstrate the serious potential for the tires to "self destruct" while towing your trailer. The original poster, sourdough, also posted pictures of his tire that did self destruct damaging his trailer.

If you're tires are in this group (there may very well be others as well) I'd urge you to pay very close attention to your tires and consider whether or not you really want to risk RV damage by continuing to use the tires.

Good Luck, all.

My takeoffs last year were also JEJK with a date code of 3113, but no evidence of delamination. No regrets...

[gearhead]

After reading about all the ST tire problems others have had, and knowing several people that have had blow-outs that caused camper damage, I upgraded my wheels and tires when I brought my new rig home.

I bought new 16" Selden wheels (matched the original wheels) and Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires. This is an issue I no longer worry about.


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I can't find a Selden brand wheel. Could you provide more info?

[bobbecky]

My Trailer King tires were made at the same plant (JEJK) with a date code of 2113. The load rating/speed rating is 113/108L. That confuses me somewhat, in that 113 is 2535 and 108 is 2205. I "wonder" if the tires were rated at 2535 at 65MPH and 2205 at 75MPH (speed rating L) ??

The 113/108L is the load index as a single (113) and the load index as a dual (108) and the the speed rating (L). The speed rating is 75 mph in both ratings. 108 is 2205 lbs and 113 is 2535 lbs. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoLoadIndex.do
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoSpeedRating.do

[JRTJH]

My Trailer King tires were made at the same plant (JEJK) with a date code of 2113. The load rating/speed rating is 113/108L. That confuses me somewhat, in that 113 is 2535 and 108 is 2205. I "wonder" if the tires were rated at 2535 at 65MPH and 2205 at 75MPH (speed rating L) ??

The 113/108L is the load index as a single (113) and the load index as a dual (108) and the the speed rating (L). The speed rating is 75 mph in both ratings. 108 is 2205 lbs and 113 is 2535 lbs. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoLoadIndex.do
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoSpeedRating.do

You are absolutely correct !!! As I was reading your explanation, it hit me that I've looked at a million "dual/single" tire ratings and this was exactly that.... I suppose the CRS syndrome is catching up more than I want to readily admit :o

Thanks for the reminder !!!

[notanlines]

Gearhead, it is a Sendel brand wheel. They have a great selection, but I have never bought any, just happen to have this site handy.....
http://www.trailer-wheels.com/Sendel-Wheel_bymfg_23-3-1.html

[gearhead]

Gearhead, it is a Sendel brand wheel. They have a great selection, but I have never bought any, just happen to have this site handy.....
http://www.trailer-wheels.com/Sendel-Wheel_bymfg_23-3-1.html

I should have caught that. I've been to trailer-wheels and found one 16" 6 lug wheel rated over 80psi. I think I found one powder coated steel wheel at eTrailer rated over 80. Sendel's site shows a couple rated at 94psi. Still looking.....

[Outback 325BH]

trailer-wheels.com is where I ordered mine. I replaced my 15" wheels with 16" inch wheels that matched exactly. I liked the wheel design that came with my TT.

I had steel valve stems installed with the new Duravis R250s and run at max 80 psi.

Left for a weekend trip that was 500 miles round trip. I re-torqued the wheels twice... and on the third torque, they required none.

The trailer handling was night and day different. The stiffer tires makes the camper "ride on rails".

TV is new F250 with overloads (camper package) and TorkLift overload pads (engages overloads immediately)
TT is Outback 325BH; 10,000 lbs; 1,500 tongue weight (actuals)
WDH is Reese SC (15,000/1,500) with add-on Reese sway bar

Tows nicely. I gave specs for perspective, not bragging.


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[cathcartww]

I agree with BuzzCop63 ......

My personal opinion is that the industry standard “ST” tire standard is inadequate for the service the ST tires are exposed to. My opinion is based only on my own personal experience, and anecdotal experience of others.
Back in the late 1970’s through the early 1980’s, I was a boat dealer, and we towed all kinds of boats – from 19 footers weighing 2500 lb on a single axle trailer, up to 15,000 lb 30 footers on triple axle trailers - up and down I95 between New Jersey and Florida. We always used the bias ply trailer tires that were available at the time. We would carry plenty of spares, but seldom, if ever, had a problem that could not be traced to a road hazard or axle-bearing-wheel-suspension problem.
Back in the day of cotton tire cords, tires were rated by how many plies they had – the more plies, the stronger the tire, and higher load range. If I remember correctly, 2 ply was A, 4 ply was B, 6 ply was C etc. When nylon and polyester came along to replace cotton, it was twice as strong, so a fewer number of plies was needed to make a tire of the same strength. We saw labels such as 2 ply/4 ply rating, 4 ply/8 ply rating, etc.
Still later, Michelin figured out how to make radial ply tires using steel belts, and that really changed things, but the industry stuck to the “ply rated” terminology even though bias plies were no longer used.
Somewhere during this, the overall quality of trailer tires seemed to deteriorate – I personally do not think a modern day load range “D” ST radial tire holds up anywhere as well as the 4 ply/8 ply rated bias trailer tires we used 40 years ago.
On the other hand, we do seem to ask more of our ST trailer tires as we do our car and truck tires. For instance, here are my three personal vehicles, using the maximum axle rating for each – I know none of them are really running at the maximum most of the time, but I bet the Ford and trailer are close when we are towing:
1995 Chevy G20 Van, front 3400lb, rear 3406lb, running 31x10.5R15LT LR C Tires rated 2270lb @ 50psi – they are loaded at about 75% capacity.
2002 VW Beetle, front 2183lb, rear 1588lb, running 205/55R16 91H tires rated 1356lb @ 44psi – they are loaded to about 80% capacity.
Ford E350 Van, front 4600lb, rear 5360lb, running LT285/75R16 LR E tires rated at 3750lbs @ 80psi – they are loaded to about 71% capacity.
2015 Outback 277RL, 4400 lb axles, came with ST225/75R15 LR D tires Chinese tires rated at 2540lbs @ 65psi – they were loaded to 86% capacity
We blew on of the LR D tires last winter – no obvious hazard, and pressures were OK 150 miles earlier – go figure. We replace them with Maaxis LR E rated at 2830lb @ 80psi, so they are loaded at about 77%, which is more in line with the other vehicles.
Hoping for the best, but sure wish there were more commercial trailer tires available in 15” !!

[vantage32fls]

Had tow max's size st225/75R15D with dot 41-11 on two and 2-12 on the other two. Bought the trailer in April 2013 never covered the tire's the first year, but did after with white covers. Never had any problems checked air pressure regularly, no tpms. Trailer has GW of 8,200# with 4,400# axles. Scaled weight on axles about 6,700#. New tires just bought are Towmaster SS same size but with a load rating E. These tires will be covered all the time and keep them on a heavy plastic when parked on our asphalt driveway.So only hope for the best.

[Bowti]

OK, sorry it took so long, but I got busy with some dirt work and just not got back to the house... Anyway, here are 8 pictures of the tire "bubbles". As you can see, dismounted and not inflated, there is a small "indentation along the edge of the tread. That was not apparent when the tires were mounted and inflated. The tread appeared to be round, smooth and adhered to the tire carcass.

Looking at the inside of the tire, it's readily apparent that the tread is separated from the carcass. In one picture you can see (hopefully) three distinct separations, the first is about 6", next is about 5" and the last is about 5" in diameter.

Absolutely none of this is visible, even with a close inspection of the tire when it's mounted on a wheel. Even removing the tire from the trailer, inspecting it as you roll it along, feeling the tread, it isn't detectable.

I'm very happy that I found this before I lost the tread at 50 MPH and destroyed the wheel well on my trailer.

Any questions, comments or more pictures, I'll be happy to try to get you the information you want....

I hope the people that inspect the outside of their tires and think the china bombs are safe to use because they "look good", read this post. I'm not saying that inspections aren't a good thing, but that when it comes to tires, it may not indicate the damage about to happen.

[CWtheMan]

My Trailer King tires were made at the same plant (JEJK) with a date code of 2113. The load rating/speed rating is 113/108L. That confuses me somewhat, in that 113 is 2535 and 108 is 2205. I "wonder" if the tires were rated at 2535 at 65MPH and 2205 at 75MPH (speed rating L) ??

The 113/108L is the load index as a single (113) and the load index as a dual (108) and the the speed rating (L). The speed rating is 75 mph in both ratings. 108 is 2205 lbs and 113 is 2535 lbs. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoLoadIndex.do
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoSpeedRating.do

NHTSA allows tire manufacturers to display service descriptions on ST & LT tires for information purposes such as speed letter codes. The only official load capacity information for those tire designs is the load range letters - also found on the tires sidewalls. There can be wide differences in the two methods such as a 44# difference in most 16” LRE LT tires.

Look on your ST tire sidewalls and you will find the load capacity for dual & single applications. Personally I’ve never seen a dual tire application on any RV trailers but have been told there are some. I don’t think I’d like to park a dual axle trailer with dual tires on each axle into a tight parking place.

Here is a picture of how a load range letter may be displayed on your tires.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=27064

Here is a picture of how the single and dual load capacities may be displayed. It also shows a service description with speed letter. This picture is of a new Westlake ST235/80R16G.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29711

[Bowti]

We read so many reports from trailer owners that have experienced catastrophic loss of air in their trailer tires, blowouts! Discussions have gone on and on as to why tires on our trailers are failing and the reason most give is because they are made in China and are cheap tires.

The tire being brought in our DOT approved, they are rated according to standards they must pass so if these tires are meeting US standards then why are they not holding up? Lets take a look at what we expect and receive in our car and or truck tires, which we put on and seem for the most part to forget. Car and truck tries have PSI maximums above what we normally run in them, say your pick up has tires rated at 44 PSI at max and the manufacture of the vehicle has them running at 30 PSI front 33 PSI rear. Each tire on the pickup is said to have a max carrying capacity of 2,469Lb and the truck normally weights in at 5,560 pounds or less so the average weight on each tire is 1,390Lb or 56% of rated load. The speed maximum for this truck tire is listed as 118MPH.

Now think about what the trailer tire is being asked to do by the trailer manufacture. That trailer tire is being run at its max PSI to carry as much weight as possible. The speed stipulated on the trailer tire is max of 65MPH and that it what the tire is being run at, max speed and max PSI. The trailer tire has a limit to what it can carry and when you weigh your trailer and find that each tire is supporting as much as 70% of its max weight rating while your truck tire is carrying 56% of its weight, truck is running at 55% of its speed and the trailer tires are turning at 100% of their rated speed. The truck in this case is running 20% lower PSI then its max rating. The conclusion that I reach is that it is not the tires that are failing the trailer it is the trailer manufacture putting on tires that are being run at or close to their max specifications to keep the price down or make larger profits.

What I have also read is that the tires we have on our trailer when put on light duty trailers last for years and have few problems, why, because their specifications match up much closer to the tires on our trucks and cars for margins of safety far greater then what we get with our trailers. Think of taking your car or truck, loading it to its max weight and then some, running it at its top rated speed, how long would those tires hold up?

The facts and numbers were taken off my Tundra Bridgestone Dueler H/T P255/70R18 112T and Towmax Power King tires on my trailers.

Buzz, You make a very good point here. Makes me also wonder what a speed rating means and how do they determine that rating. Do they do destructive testing and what is suppose to be the "result" of exceeding that rating? What margin do they give for those that exceed it? How good of a tire can it be if it will fail after a 65 MPH rating?

[CWtheMan]

We read so many reports from trailer owners that have experienced catastrophic loss of air in their trailer tires, blowouts! Discussions have gone on and on as to why tires on our trailers are failing and the reason most give is because they are made in China and are cheap tires.

The tire being brought in our DOT approved, they are rated according to standards they must pass so if these tires are meeting US standards then why are they not holding up? Lets take a look at what we expect and receive in our car and or truck tires, which we put on and seem for the most part to forget. Car and truck tries have PSI maximums above what we normally run in them, say your pick up has tires rated at 44 PSI at max and the manufacture of the vehicle has them running at 30 PSI front 33 PSI rear. Each tire on the pickup is said to have a max carrying capacity of 2,469Lb and the truck normally weights in at 5,560 pounds or less so the average weight on each tire is 1,390Lb or 56% of rated load. The speed maximum for this truck tire is listed as 118MPH.

Now think about what the trailer tire is being asked to do by the trailer manufacture. That trailer tire is being run at its max PSI to carry as much weight as possible. The speed stipulated on the trailer tire is max of 65MPH and that it what the tire is being run at, max speed and max PSI. The trailer tire has a limit to what it can carry and when you weigh your trailer and find that each tire is supporting as much as 70% of its max weight rating while your truck tire is carrying 56% of its weight, truck is running at 55% of its speed and the trailer tires are turning at 100% of their rated speed. The truck in this case is running 20% lower PSI then its max rating. The conclusion that I reach is that it is not the tires that are failing the trailer it is the trailer manufacture putting on tires that are being run at or close to their max specifications to keep the price down or make larger profits.

What I have also read is that the tires we have on our trailer when put on light duty trailers last for years and have few problems, why, because their specifications match up much closer to the tires on our trucks and cars for margins of safety far greater then what we get with our trailers. Think of taking your car or truck, loading it to its max weight and then some, running it at its top rated speed, how long would those tires hold up?

The facts and numbers were taken off my Tundra Bridgestone Dueler H/T P255/70R18 112T and Towmax Power King tires on my trailers.

I don't want to get in a debate about what you are saying here because a lot of it is out of context. To seriously write about tire regulations and fitments you're going to have to read more about the regulations that govern such things. You can start with FMVSS 571.110 - 571.120 - 571.139, they will lead you to others with the same subject matter.

Tires with inflation pressures you have mentioned above are passenger tires. Not even close to being comparable with trailer tires and when used on trailers under 10K they must be derated by about 10%, 571.110 will explain the process.

Automotive tires are required by FMVSS to have reserve load capacities via inflation. Trailer tires are not. All of the major manufacturers of ST tires approve and recommend them to be operated at full sidewall pressures.

[bitten]

Date code above 2113 to me means 11/2/2013. Correct? If so, my Trailer Kings are 11/5/2015. Rated 113/108L. 2500 x 4 means 10,000. My 28RLS is 6150dry, 8400loaded Max. 75mph at 65psi. I drive 65.

[JRTJH]

Date code above 2113 to me means 11/2/2013. Correct? If so, my Trailer Kings are 11/5/2015. Rated 113/108L. 2500 x 4 means 10,000. My 28RLS is 6150dry, 8400loaded Max. 75mph at 65psi. I drive 65.

No, you're mis-interpreting the date code. The date code first two digits are the WEEK and the next two digits are the year. So tires with a date code of 2113 were manufactured during the 21st week of 2013. The date code on your tires won't have a "month/day/year" code, only a "week/year" code...

If you're still having trouble, post the date code from your tires and we will tell you when they were manufactured.

[bitten]

5115, so the next to last week of 2015. Even better. And tire says 2200 lbs dual so 8800. Discount tire index says 2535 dual.

[JRTJH]

5115, so the next to last week of 2015. Even better. And tire says 2200 lbs dual so 8800. Discount tire index says 2535 dual.

Your trailer does not have "dual" wheels. It has "tandem" wheels. It is configured as a "single wheel application" they are 225 75R15 LRD, so they are rated for "single wheel application" (tandem axles) at 2540 per tire at 65PSI. Your tires are probably speed rated L (75MPH), but if there is no speed rating following the load rating, then they are rated at 65MPH.

[bitten]

Obviously I needed help. Thanks

[JRTJH]

LOL Just a few days ago I had a "bout of intracranial flatulence" over the "single/dual ratings" in this very same thread. As long as you "finally figure it out" all the rest is just "travel time" :rofl:

[Bowti]

LOL a "bout of intracranial flatulence" :rofl:

John,
Right now I plan on taking the same route as you and going with the Carlisle load range E this fall. Will be watching the posts until then. Still trying to figure out that HD rating that Discount has.

[sourdough]

John,
Right now I plan on taking the same route as you and going with the Carlisle load range E this fall. Will be watching the posts until then. Still trying to figure out that HD rating that Discount has.

I believe the Discount tire HD is going to be the same as the Radial Trail RH that John got. I insisted the dealer install the HD tires which I had talked to Discount tire about. The confusion came when the service manager at CW said he didn't need to get them from Discount tire; they had them at "their" warehouse? I did not get to clarify that as I came to FL and the service manager transferred to another store. Other than the HD on the tire those I have are branded identically to John's I believe (size/load/speed/etc) so I think Carlisle is just badging some RH trailer tires for Discount tire.

[JRTJH]

I sent Carlisle Tire an email this afternoon asking them specifically to explain the difference between the HD and the RH tire. Hopefully, we'll have the answer "right from the horse's mouth" in a couple of days. From what I can "best guess" the tire carcass is the same, the tread is slightly different. I don't know which is "best" and which is "newest", so with any luck, Carlisle will provide enough information so we can know what we're buying (or for some of us, what we bought) ...

[sourdough]

Thanks John. It will be interesting to see what the scoop is.

[Bowti]

John,
Have you heard anything yet? We will be interested on what they have to say. Thanks for taking the lead on this.

[JRTJH]

No, unfortunately, Carlisle has not responded to my email. I'll give them a couple more days and send it again. They have recently updated their website to include the HD tire in the trailer tires section. So, there is now "some" information on that tire as well as the RH.

From my "little experience vantage" it looks like the HD is the "updated" RH, as they say: "We have completely redesigned the industry-leading Radial TrailRH trailer tire for:
•Improved tread wear
•Greater heat resistance
•Increased durability"

As to which is "better/not better" ???

http://www.carlstargroup.com/product/tires/trailers-toy-haulers-towables/radial-trail-hd

[Bowti]

Thanks John,
Now, that the HD tire is listed on their website, it pretty much says it all. Interesting though how Discount Tire was selling it before it supposedly hit the regular market.

[Desert185]

Well, I hope the HD's yield a good reputation. Maxxis doesn't have a LRF and Carlisle does, so that fact might be the convincing factor for my next ST tire decision...if I have 95 PSI wheels, that is.

[gearhead]

LOL Just a few days ago I had a "bout of intracranial flatulence" over the "single/dual ratings" in this very same thread. As long as you "finally figure it out" all the rest is just "travel time" :rofl:
This has been driving me nuts since you posted it: what brand was that tandem DUALLY 5th I saw last year in Tennessee??
We pull into Elkhart Campground yesterday and there is another one right out our window. Kountry Aire by Newmar.