Battery and level 6 point level

[CWSWine]

I have the 6 point hydraulic level up system that needs above 12.2 volts in the batteries to operate properly. That's not a problem when camping and plug into power but in storage it seems to drop down just under where the level up will work properly. I can hook the 5er via the cable to the truck and charge in about 30 minutes to hour enough to operate the level up's pump.

Has anyone put jumper cables between the truck and camper batteries and don't have to wait for it to charge up and able to operate level up system? My truck has dual batteries and I'm sure enough power to run the jacks.

I use to have a portable jumper box that had its own battery that would jump a car I wonder if those have enough power to use in emergency?

I going to isolate the battery using a battery cut off since the one on board by the water hookups still allow certain items to operate even if turned off. I have two red cables off my positive post one goes to the inverter with battery cut off switch and one goes to some sort relay how knows were from there. Think about cut off in the second positive line.

I have the worst luck with batteries, I going to look for storage area that has electric hookups...

[cant_remember_ID]

I would suggest taking measures (like the full disconnect like you talked about) to avoid draining the batteries that much. Draining below 50% can shorten the life of lead acid batteries. At about 12.0 volts, you're at 50%, so any lower and you're under 50%.

But for the short term, I don't see how running a jumper cable is any different than having the batteries fully charged. But some with actual experience may be able to chime in, I'm just thinking theoretically.

[JRTJH]

CWSWine,

You may be between a "rock and a hard place" with a battery cutoff switch. Your memory circuits in the level-up system may not "remember" the "zero level condition" if you completely remove battery power. A simple way to find out is to disconnect the negative battery cable the next time you store your RV, then connect it when you get ready for the next trip. If the level-up system "remembers" without having to be reset, you'll be able to install a "complete battery cutoff switch" but if you have to reset/recalibrate the level-up system, you'd be faced with the decision of whether you want to do that procedure every time you get ready to use your RV or find another solution to how to keep your batteries charged....

[CWSWine]

CWSWine,

You may be between a "rock and a hard place" with a battery cutoff switch. Your memory circuits in the level-up system may not "remember" the "zero level condition" if you completely remove battery power. A simple way to find out is to disconnect the negative battery cable the next time you store your RV, then connect it when you get ready for the next trip. If the level-up system "remembers" without having to be reset, you'll be able to install a "complete battery cutoff switch" but if you have to reset/recalibrate the level-up system, you'd be faced with the decision of whether you want to do that procedure every time you get ready to use your RV or find another solution to how to keep your batteries charged....

Well I guess I better look up how to do it since I already disconnect the positive lead.

[JRTJH]

I don't have much experience with the auto level systems, so my comments are based on what I've read and heard. There may be a memory circuit that keeps the settings without battery power, I don't know for sure, but something you might want to check. Once you find out for sure, please post the results so we can all "learn something" :)

[chuckster57]

I can assure you the zero point calibration is not lost. We get units from the factory without a battery in them. They sell and I install a battery, auto level is one of the first things I try.

This is true on both the hydraulic 6 point and electric 4 point made by LCI.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I have had similar problems with my unit. I have the 1 factory size 24 marine/rv battery installed and it strains to lift the front jacks. I have had problems in the past that it goes into error mode and then just one of the jacks will lift. I have not had a problem yet when having the TV connected and set to high idle then operating the jacks. I am in the process of adding 4 golf cart batteries so I hope it solves the problem.

I do have a 290 pound onan generator up front as well as a splendid washer/dryer combo at about 150 pounds. With the front closet loaded and under the bed storage, it is just too much for the smallest battery made.

[gtsum2]

I ran into same issues at first, now I always use generator or am plugged into power when using the auto leveling or the slides. It sucks too much from the battery otherwise. (Except for raising the front to disconnect from truck...)


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[NotyetMHCowner]

I thought maybe my problem would be fixed with the 4 golf cart batteries but apparently not. I had a problem yesterday with the front Jacks stopping just before coming off the truck. I didn't hey an error, they just stopped. They are really slow and sound like they strain from the weight. I have a gen set, washer/dryer, batteries, front closet full, under the bed storage, and basement storage just about full so I do have a lot of weight up front. BUT, these Jacks claim to have 5000 pound capacity each. There is no way in the world they would lift close to that much.

I am thinking of increasing the wire size to the controller and ground to help with voltage drop maybe. I am wishing I had hydraulic Jacks right now.

[bsmith0404]

Instead of all of the hassle of jumper cables or cut off switches and such, why not just pull the batteries and put them on a battery tender at your house. It'll prolong the life of the batteries as well. At nearly $100 each, battery life is more important to me than the hassle of pulling them. I have indoor storage with power so I leave my batteries in the RV with a tender connected, but before that, I pulled them. It's a 5 minute process.

[bobbecky]

I think the problem with losing power to the level up system has nothing to do with the battery and is really the auto breaker that is too weak. Many of these systems came with cheap 40 amp breakers, and I and many others have replaced them, at LCI's suggestion, with 80 amp breakers.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_204901_0_95a8a311bbcfe2a14af1825064133158.jpg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_204901_1_23d78629322a2fd40749db0962102cad.jpg

[Harleyhop]

While in storage I always hook a solar charger to my batteries. Always keeps the battery around 12.9 volts good enough to raise the front level up jacks and hook up to the truck.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Okay, I may have fixed mine. I did install an 80 amp breaker like bobbecky suggested. I checked the current this morning while raising is to work on it and it ran from around 55 to 61 amps and the voltage was 12.0 or less. The voltage was about 13.4 at rest. That was with it still plugged in on shore power at home and not connected to the truck. I took the voltage reading from the lci screen.

I decided on #4 awg. I was wanting #2, but it would have been hard to get it on the terminals on the controller. So I left the factory #6 or #8, whatever it is, and added the #4 in parallel with it. The voltage now runs 13.8 at rest and never below 12.6 (so far). When I first turned it on, I ran it up some and the voltage was actually running about 12.8 to 12.9. I dropped them all the way down (I had them up real high), then raised it again and that was when it got as low as 12.6. I have seen it be in the 10's before without having it connected to the truck.

I really think the major problem is the voltage drop because the circuit is around 20 feet long from the battery, to the controller, and back. Then also a big problem, if you have a lot of front weight, is pulling much more than what the 40 amp breaker can handle.

Then only problems I have had since owning the camper is one of the jacks quitting while lifting and then showing error (because of low voltage) and tripping the breaker (that has only happened recently probably because of adding the weight of the golf cart batteries).

If anyone is having similar problems with their unit, I highly suggest increasing wire size and breaker size. This was a pretty easy job. I even pulled the wire by myself.

[gearhead]

I've haven't had an issue (yet) with power to jacks. I do have 2 group 24 batteries and I try to be plugged in before I level. I don't have a generator, but do have the washer/dryer, and of course the wife's 28 pair of shoes.
I'm thinking this will be a good project for me. I just need some details. Where did you add the heavier wiring? To the new breaker and then to the controller? Did you add to the negative as well?

[NotyetMHCowner]

I see you have the same fiver as me, just 1 year older, so they should be the same. I bought #4 awg, red and black, from West Marine and 6 lugs. They have marine grade wire, and tinned lugs and are actually cheaper than my local Napa store. I took the front part of the under belly loose and could access where the wires leave the battery compartment and where the wires go up to the lci controller in the basement. I bought 15' of red and 12' of black, but have about 4 feet of each left over. I planned on using the wire in the future anyway.

I added 4 golf cart batteries a few months ago so I had already added in a buss bar for each positive and negative, so I tapped on to them for the negative and to feed the breaker. You could just add a short wire from the first point that your positive goes to the wall where the breakers are and feed the new breaker (I bought mine on Amazon for about $34. West Marine has them but they are about $52). You can just put your negative where the others go on the frame rail.

It is a worth while project seeing how much voltage drop there is.

[gearhead]

Either I'm not following you, or my wiring is different. Are you saying you replaced the breaker coming off the battery, then went from there to the controller with heavier wire? The wires going in my controller look really small. My wiring to the motors on top of my front jacks terminates to pigtail plug connectors and is quite small as well.
We may have a different system. Or, I need to look more.

[NotyetMHCowner]

I originally had 2 breakers in the battery compartment, one that fed the level controller (among a couple of other things), and one that fed the converter. I added a third breaker (80 amp even so a 70 would work fine) and put the controller wires on it. I ran a new #4 wire, but I also used the factory #8 wire as well, so I have 2 red wires coming off the breaker and 2 red wires on the controller termination. I also used the factory black wire along with the new #4 black wire. I left the factory wire going to the frame like it was before. I put the new #4 wire on the buss bar I have added. You could just add the black #4 wire to the same frame connection as the factory black wire.

The factory wires are small for the level system. The wires feeding it look like either #8 or #6 (which would be fine with an empty camper) and the wires going to the jacks look like #10. The wires going to the jacks are marginally OK. I was pulling 25 to 28 amps on the front left jack when raising in the driveway. #10 wire is generally alright for 30 amp circuits. Because of the plugs on each jack, it would be more difficult to increase wire size without it looking like a hack job.

[gearhead]

Mine is a bit different. I have 3 breakers on the bulkhead behind the batteries. Fair size hot leads from them. Hard to tell at a casual glance what each breaker is feeding.
I am surprised at how small the wires are going to the front jack motors, based on the amps you say your motors are drawing.
Since I haven't had any problems I might just leave it alone. I could replace the breakers with something better.
Question....do the factory 12 volt breakers automatically reset if they throw open?

[NotyetMHCowner]

Yes, they are thermal breakers and reset after they cool down. This biggest problem I have had is voltage drop. #8 wire running about 20 feet with 60 amps for a full minute or more AND trying to keep the voltage at 12.5 for the controller when a fully charged battery is only 12.7 is a asking a lot. But, I do have a lot of front weight. Generator, washer, four 6 volt batteries and our basement is pretty loaded. I plan on a full weigh including pin weight and front jack weight on the way to the beach next week.

I always like to improve things on my vehicles, but the old saying: if it ain't broke don't fix it may apply to you. In my opinion, mine was broke!

[gearhead]

I can't count how many times I've weighed, especially when I had the Ford. I think the High Country specs changed with your year model. I believe yours is not as wide but has maybe 100# more pin weight. I'm advertised at 2175# but am over 3000 depending on how I'm loaded. Add the hitch, generators, and any cargo and I was well over the Ford payload. The Ram gave me 900# more, so I'm good to go.
Post up your numbers.
......your shower doors still ok? Had to completely replace mine....warranty!!

[NotyetMHCowner]

I am guessing I am at least 3500 pin weight. I am going to also weigh the front jack weight (as long as the scales don't look busy).

We knew about the shower doors before picking up out unit. We have 2 rubber coated small spring clamps from Northern Tool that we put in the tracks to hold the doors in case the factory clamp breaks.

[Wilkod]

This thread is interesting as i am suddenly hearing a soft click when trying to raise my front jacks on my 6pt hydraulic system. If i wait 30 seconds it will work again for 30 seconds then click and it doesn't work again. Is that the breaker tripping and auto resetting or perhaps i have weak batteries? It works fine on shore power.

Thanks

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[NotyetMHCowner]

That click is probably the breaker tripping and resetting. If you are not on shore power or connected to a running TV, then the voltage is lower which makes the amps higher (ohms law). On shore power, there is usually only a trickle charger keeping the voltage up but with a good sized load, it doesn't do much help because the trickle charger is not giving much current (amps). Connected to the TV with it running is the better solution because you are getting alternator voltage and a little more current to help along with the battery power from the TV (a diesel being 2 more batteries).

I think the biggest problem with these (besides coming from the factory with 1 small battery) is the cable is too small that feeds the controller and too much voltage is lost which in turn makes the current raise higher than the breaker can handle.

[cw3jason]

This thread is interesting as i am suddenly hearing a soft click when trying to raise my front jacks on my 6pt hydraulic system. If i wait 30 seconds it will work again for 30 seconds then click and it doesn't work again. Is that the breaker tripping and auto resetting or perhaps i have weak batteries? It works fine on shore power.

Thanks

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Yes, as stated above, this is your self resetting thermal breaker. Keystone has a fix for this on the Montana's and it is to replace it with an 80amp breaker or (2)40amp breakers in parallel.

[Barbell]

Our '14 Montana (3100RL) since new would flatten the battery in 24 to 36 hours even with the disconnect set to off. Our first trip East, we had to disconnect with no shore power for a few days in the hills of Vermont. When we came back to pick up the rig, battery would not lift it to hook up til I put on jumper cables. After that, the only way I could keep the battery up for more than a few days was to disconnect BOTH terminals. In Northern Virginia last fall, we lost all 12 volt power from time to time. Also, the slides would stop and start several times. One of the thermal breakers located behind the battery was going bad and since it has been replaced, no more problems but I still keep an eye on the battery voltage and unhook both terminals. Level Up has never been reset.

[Wilkod]

I had that same issue with the hydraulic slides also. Only would go out on shore power... do you have a picture of a thermal breaker so i can look for it and replace

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[Wilkod]

Is the thermal breaker supplied by keystone (oem) or lippert? Thanks

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[cw3jason]

put in by Keystone with the wiring. on the rear wall behind the battery. has a red rubber boot over it. They are made by Bussman. Google Bussman 40 amp thermal resetting breaker and 80amp. you will see them. you may have 2. One that goes to your Hydraulic pump and one going elsewhere. the one going to the hydraulic pump and reservoir is the one that needs to be upgraded.

[gearhead]

Be careful hitting the "level" button if you have the power cord hooked up to the truck, and the truck is under the 5th wheel.
Oh no, the front is going DOWN!!
Move the truck fast you nut job.
400 grit sandpaper and Krylon. Only I can see it. Lol
KOA Terré Haute, Indiana.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Just weighed today on the way to our first stop on the way to the beach.
Total combined 22,620
Trailer axles 10,040
Rear truck axle 7,560
Front truck axle 5,020
Whole truck with camper 12,560
Front camper axle 5,240
Rear camper axle 4,820
Pin weight 3,660
Camper weight 13,680
Front truck axle without camper 5,040
Rear truck axle without camper 3,900
Front Jacks 5,360

This was all four of us in the truck with two dogs, half tank of fuel, two bikes in bed of truck, two bikes on rear of camper, full propane, empty tanks except 1/3 fresh water. This is as heavy as we will ever be because there are usually only 2 of us and less food and chairs, etc.

I am surprised that the front Jacks are only 5,360 with as much as they strain. I had a fault again trying to auto level. It said jack was out of stroke. The RR did not go down all the way but it did in manual. We are pretty loaded on the front end but with 2 Jacks that are supposed to lift 10k pounds, they strain a lot.

We are under weight on every aspect but not far off from gvwr of truck (13k). Anyway, we are starting vacation so it's ALL good!