M punch list

[The Sod Father]

Greetings all -

Just wondering if others have experienced extensive items that were either broken, malfunctioning or not installed correctly in their new trailers. I am taking my trailer to the dealer on Thursday with my initial "punch list" of stuff that wasn't done correctly at the factory. From what I can tell, business is booming for Keystone and they are cranking out trailers around the clock.

And this got me wondering - is my list unusually extensive and the result of Keystone trying to crank out trailers as fast as they can or was my rig the victim of bad karma? Or worse - was it the result of "hey guys, let's hurry up and finish this one so we can still make happy hour".

So, here's my list -
- Window over galley leaks
- Window in bedroom on road side leaks
- Storage doors or both sides leak due to opening being larger than actual door (little to no contact with gasket)
- 12V supply wire for electric tongue jack is "stretched" to the point of stress and is not secured to shaft with zip tie
- Ceiling molding falling down
- Screen door is warped and does not seal all the way around door jam.
- Radio bezel cracked
- TV not hooked up to sound system
- Fresh water fill tube is loose (it actually came out when I was filling the tank).
- Rattle in AC unit

Don't get me wrong - this is the 3rd trailer I've owned and love it. I'm just a bit stymied at all that is wrong with it right out of the gate. And I haven't even camped in it yet! Has anyone experienced as many issues with their brand new trailer or am I truly the victim of my dogma being run over by my karma :p

[Festus2]

The Sod Father:
If you were to go back and read some of the posts in this section (Keystone RV Service and Warranty Issues), you will come across other posts submitted by members who have had similar "punch lists". This won't make you feel any better but there are some who have even longer punch lists than yours.
We all have had our lists - both long and short but I would think that yours would go into the "Long Punch List" box. Many have asked, "What has happened to "quality control"? Not sure which of those multiple choice answers you mentioned in your post would apply to your situation. Perhaps your dogma did, in fact, get run over by your karma.
In any case, I hope that your dealer and Keystone will make things right for you so that you can once again rekindle the love you have for this trailer.

[ktmracer]

my punch list after 6 months, 4,000 miles and 45 days of camping:

a) blind over the rocker misaligned
b) bath door needed minor adjustment to open easier

dealer was able to fix both rather quickly.

IMHO my dealer did an outstandng PDI. In our almost 5 hour PDI walkthrough DW found a few minor cosmetics that was it.

[Handysam]

I would have to say that your list is a little unusual in terms of severity. Ceiling molding falling down should have been caught by the dealer, as well as the cracked bezel. TWO leaking windows is rare on a new unit. Please keep us informed on how your dealer and Keystone handles this. Happy Camping, Sam

[jq1031]

Gotta say my probems are minimal as compared to yours. Leak in the city water inlet...............& ...............something else I can't remember. But it's new, have spent the last week testing everything & living in the TT & will continue to do so for another week as we return to FL. I'll keep you posted!

[mrxlh]

Sod Father, you got one built on a Friday or Monday. ;) Just kidding, I had a water leak on mine, (black flush connection leaking [clean fresh water] into the storage compartment) garage door wouldn't stay shut (catch plate not lined up with door bolt) screws pulled out of the storage compartment slam door on the left side (my fault ) entertainment remote missing, camp chairs missing, and battery disconnect not disconnecting battery power to trailer.
All fixed under warranty, no questions asked. Love the RV and even knowing what I know now, I would still buy the RV all over again. Some things are unfortunate, as they should not leave the factory that way, and should be caught by the dealership. However, things do happen and if they correct them to your satisfaction, then it should be all good.

[wgb1]

Really makes me wonder what I may have missed on my new Bullet TT. I have seen none of the issues in other posts on my Bullet except for the TV not being hooked up to the sound system. I was told that Keystone no longer does that but that it would be easy for me to do. There was even a spare RCA cable in one of the drawers. Not sure I even want it hooked to the other speakers but we'll see.

[ksfis43]

I also found that my storage doors leak, same as yours, very little if any contact with the weather stripping.
also
My shower wall enclosure is pulling away from the wall along the top of the tub,
my rear power jacks are very loud and don't operate as smoothly as the front ones, and the edging on my table has a slight buckle in it.
And my tv is not hooked up to the sound system either.

I’m not too concerned, yet, I will call and notify my dealer, but I will wait until after my first outing until I take it in, as I will probably find some other things that need to be tweaked.

So far I am please with my TT.

[The Sod Father]

Thanks all. As I said, I really love the trailer. More so than any other rig I've owned (aside from my pop up).:D

At the end of the day, I firmly believe that quality control in the RV industry is nowhere near what it needs to be to meet customer expectations. QC in the auto industry has drastically improved since the days of the Chrysler Cordoba and exploding Pintos. As a consumer, I expect a high level of QC on big ticket items like cars, RV's, appliances, etc. Hopefully the industry will "get it" and implement measures that will address things like leaky windows.;)

[Adam]

And just think I haven't even touched anything to date, good luck today! BTW..... I'm going to now double check everything on the Passport especially areas you mention in your punch list, since I have the entry level unit :)

[jq1031]

Sod, I've seen major improvements in RV quality over the last 35 years. Even the big Class A motor homes have constant issues regarding quality control. As long as we keep complaining about what needs to be fixed & getting it done under warranty, costing Keystone $$$, then little by little quality will improve. Today, we have a pretty good product but keep the pressure on.

[The Sod Father]

Sooooo..... I call the dealer to see what's up. I picked up the trailer on April 9th. At that time the dealer told me they were asking Keystone what should be done - replace the window seals or the entire window. Given the fact that an entire week has passed, I decided to give them a call to see if they got an answer from Keystone. I called the service department at Pocono RV (my dealer). Bottom line, the guy who answered the phone should not be allowed to answer phones. Frankly, this guy should not be allowed near sharp objects, but I digress. I didn't get his name, so I will call him Cletus for illustrative purposes. No offense to anyone named Cletus.

So, Cletus answered the phone in service. In the spirit of brevity, here is the condensed version -

Me: Any updates on my trailer? What did Keystone decide to do?
Cletus: I don't know. They never got back to us. Why don't YOU call them and see if you can get a better answer? Sometimes when a customer calls, it helps things.
Me: oooookaaaaay. What number should I call?
Cletus: the number should be in your paperwork. Try there.
Me: ooookaaaay. You mean to tell me you don't have their number??
Cletus: no, we just have the number for service. If you can't find it, call back.

So, I go to the Keystone website, find a general number and call. After being transferred 3 times, I finally get someone who can help. She searches for my file and says, "well sir, it looks like THEY requested new window seals on April 11th, so they should have them any day now. There is nothing here that says we were supposed to make a decision. They ordered the seals under warranty and we sent them".

Soooo... I call the dealer back, get Cletus on the phone again and tell him what Keystone said.
I then ask, "so it looks like you are replacing the seals. So tell me, do you have the seals"?
Cletus: "I don't know. Do we?

Me - face palm. "Uhhh.... How am I supposed to know? You're the one that works there".
Cletus - "Oh. Hold on".

Cletus then covers the phone with his hand, asks the service manager and then says, "I don't think we have them. I don't know your situation so I don't know..."
Me: "Tell ya what - why don't you give me to the guy who actually knows what's going on".

The service manager then gets on the horn and tells me that parts placed an order, he calls over to the parts guy to see if it is in, and then tells me it is not. I then, very patiently tell him, "ya know... this information would have been a lot more helpful when I called the first time". No apology at all. He just re-iterates that parts placed the order and that the seals are not in yet but he will call me when they are.

So, the lesson learned here? If the dude answering the phone sounds like a doofus - end the conversation and ask to talk to someone who can give you a more informed answer.

[Handysam]

You know its bad enough to have the problems you have with the camper, and then you have to deal with Mr. Doofus Cletus about getting the problems fixed. Perhaps another call to Keystone with the information and dealings with your dealer will help. I'm sure they would love to know.

[The Sod Father]

Does anyone know if Keystone monitors this board?

[Festus2]

Your condensed version of this conversation with the "Service Department" and the manager at Pocono RV simply illustrates what goes on all too frequently nowadays. "Customer Service" has become an oxymoron - the last two syllables of which aptly describe your friend, Cletus - or is that Doofus? (I hope it isn't Festus!)
Maybe Cletus just hasn't found his niche in the Service Department at Pocono. How about a move to Parts?

Does anyone from Keystone monitor this forum? Mmmmmm, trying to think of an informed answer....... Look at the red print at the bottom of this page. Says we are not authorized, affliliated, endorsed or even related --- by, with or to Keystone. Somehow, I don't think they pay too much attention to what goes on here.... but that answer is totally uninformed.

[linebiker]

My initial list was a full page, most of it dealer took care of. Many more things I fixed myself rather than bother with taking it back. Compared with many, my dealer and one closer to home worked with me rather well. Had a leak that was a major deal on slide. Major frustration first year.

My Raptor goes to alignment shop next week, do not know if it is a as built thing yet or someting I did. (tire wear)

[campingcpl]

Sod Father,
I had a similar issue with my dealer and some major repairs. The dealer kept telling me that they were waiting on Keystone to make up their minds on if it would be covered under warranty or not. Well I took it on myself to call Keystone and found out that they approved the repairs a week before I called them and I had just talked to the dealer the same day I called Keystone. The Keystone rep that I had talked to had also said they had already sent out the parts. What really got me is that my dealer was in Elkhart and the Keystone plant is in Goshen 20 minutes away, so why didn't my dealer already have the parts? I ended up getting the dealerships general manager involved and was about ready to tell them to keep the trailer and give me my money back for it. So I can relate to how you feel. As for if anyone at Keystone monitors this sit I couldn't tell you but I can tell you from personal experiance that I do know some manaufactures do look at these type of sites. Good luck with rest of the repairs you are having done!

[Pennsylvaniasprinter]

IMO....Keystone Customer service monitors websites......not only this one but others...(GoodSam). It would be foolish for their Customer Service not to. It's beneficial to get a feel of what people are saying about their product.

[wozzukes]

TheSodFather - Thanks for posting your dealer information. Pocono RV is actually our closest Keystone dealer. We didn't buy there because they couldn't match the price we were given and the sales guy never returned my phone calls with answers to my questions which just told me they didn't want our business. If we are to need any service or warranty work that was going to be where would go, but after reading your story and dealings with Cletus I think it may be worth driving the 2 1/2 hours back to the dealer we bought from!

[JRTJH]

I, as many others have been victims of the Cletus's in the service department. He also "helps out in parts" at times, so watch for him there too !!!

I've found that when I start getting the run around, and the service manager seems to have no better answers then Cletus, I get in touch with the General Manager. He has customer satisfaction as a major way to grow his business.

I learned a long time ago, when buying a major ticket item, BEFORE signing on the dotted line, talk to the GM learn his name and how to contact him. Get his card, keep it until you have all the paperwork, then staple it to the "contact list" for the dealership. When things go wrong, just like letting Keystone know about quality issues, let the GM at the dealership know. It might not always help, but it never hurts !!!!!

[Wild Wild Qwest]

JP, if I were you, I would go to Indian Valley (IVCC) for service. They are an authorized Keystone dealer and provide excellent customer service.

Good luck!

[The Sod Father]

Update - the seals were installed by Cletus and friends. And with that, I wished the dealer good luck. All future warranty work will be done at the Keystone dealer 3 miles from my house. I really wished he could sell the Bullet because I would have given him my business in a heart beat. They do a great job in service. Sales too as I bought my pop up from them in 2003.
www.ivccrv.com

[The Sod Father]

Sigh... Looks like one of the windows is still leaking. Upon further inspection, I noticed that the gasket on one of the allegedly repaired windows has a 3/4" gap where both ends of the gasket are supposed to meet. Plus, the gap is at the top of the window, where water is most likely to come in. Not sure what the logic was when they put this seal in, but I am taking it to another dealer.

[Handysam]

Previous to our 327RES we owned a 2007 Rockwood TT. The front window leaked from day one. Several trip to the dealer for repair resulted in a window that still leaked. This of course was after the service department swore they tested it with a hose.

Long story short my hubby took the window out himself replaced the butyl tape and reinstalled. Voila... NO MORE LEAKING...

We didn't go back to that dealer when we were looking for 5th wheels because their service department was a NIGHTMARE run by Cletus himself...

Service after the sale is SO IMPORTANT!!! Good luck with your issue, keep us posted.

Lauren

[The Sod Father]

The leaking front window in Rockwood/Flagstaff Signature Ultra Light series is very common. I had the same issue in my 8317SS. One of my best campering buddies has the same floorplan with the same leak. My Rockwood dealer went out of business. My buddies dealer said, "you should keep your trailer covered". Yep, that was his solution. :banghead:

[therink]

Reading about this poor service reminded me of a story. A few years back I bought a one year old TT from CW. Before signing the papers I came up with a small punch list of things that needed repairing before I took delivery. I had them list all 3 of the repairs on the sales order. One of the items was to replace awning fabric due to 12" rear over the door. They called me a few days later and told me the repairs were made and it was ready for delivery. I came in the following Saturday, inspected the trailer and none of the 3 items were repaired, or even looked at for that matter, even though the service order indicated the repairs were made. Yes, the awning still had the 12" tear.
I believe they actually thought I wouldn't open and check the awning until I got home (which would then be my problem). They played stupid and ended up fixing everything, but not without further hesitation on their part. I am convinced that this is the nature of the rv dealer network as a whole. I have yet to find a honest dealership.

[jcgib81]

I have been checking out this forum to no end. I love the information. I wonder if Keystone is looking and listening.
I had a 2007 Starcraft Antigua 21sso for 5 years.
Punch List:
1. No knob for window crank. Fedexed to me three days later by rv
dealer where purchased on Long Island.

New owner of 2012 Keystone Bullet Premier 31BHPR.
Punch List:(After 2 trips.)
1. Water filer under sink leaks.
2. Screws on 4 yes 4 cabinet doors stripped and doors falling off
3. Support for drivers side rear faring/trim over the wheels broke, and
losssened the lower trim.
4. Rear outdoor kitchen door out of alignment.
5. Front screen door does not catch.
6. Rear door to bathroom does not lock/line up.
7. Trim/.molding on dining room not complete/missing 5 inch piece.
8. Light bulbs in bedroom blew out after 1 hour. both.
9. Gas line for hose/outdoor kitchen burner is within 1/2 inch to fit. Don't
you think 1 inch extra would make life easier.
10. Black tank handle/pull bar too short. It constantly leaked fluid.
11. Caulk in tub and kitchen sink sub par/messy and slowly leaking.

I have to travel 2 hours to have warranty service from Camping World New Jersey where I bought it. After the sales problems I would rather fix it myself.
I know it is my own fault. Just venting.
Keystone are you listening???
Jim Gibson
Blue Point,NY

PS. I have had a great experience with keystone direct. I can't explain, but they were great with a modification.

[The Sod Father]

HA! I also have items 3, 4, 5 and 11 on your list. BTW - a follow up to the Cletus incident. I called my sales guy and told him that while I was really happy with the sales process, the service end of the business, in a word, sucked. I gave him all of the details and he apologized profusely. He also said he wanted to make things right and was going to chat with the owner of the dealership in the morning. Stay tuned.

[The Sod Father]

I was out of town for a few days and followed up with the sales guy again. He put me through to the owner who, unbeknownst to me, did the PDI on our Bullet. I gave him the whole story and told him how the window was still leaking. Like the sales guy, he apologized over and over again and said that he too wanted to make things right. Unlike the sales guy, he also said that he worked very hard to build the dealership and was going to have a long hard chat with the service department as this was not the first incident. He also promised to follow up with me later today and again said he would do whatever it takes to make things right.

I just want my window fixed and a few other things that popped up during out last trip. I am, however, going to suggest that washing and waxing my trailer was a real chore and, it would be great if, when I picked up my trailer it was magically washed and waxed. I don't think I am asking too much. What do you folks think?

[Bob Landry]

After I got my new Outback home(the dealer is 150 miles away) I noticed that the trailer did not have an inspection sticker on it.(Required in Texas over a certain weight). I called the dealer and asked why it wasn't inspected and the service writer told me it was it wasn't necessary because if I ever got stopped, the cop would be looking at the inspection on the truck, not the trailer and that nobody ever got stopped for lack of a trailer inspection sticker.
I'm sure that some surly DPS Trooper would buythat explanation in a heartbeat. Right.. Right after he handed me the ticket. I took the trailer to a local dealer and got it inspected.

You know, I'm really believing some of the things I'm reading here. You just can't make this stuff up.