Moving on...

[BirchyBoy]

Well, the wife and I finally pulled the trigger on a new travel trailer today. After looking at dozens of floorplans, including class A/C's and fifth wheels, we bought another travel trailer. We traded in our '14 Passport 238ML for a '15 Open Range 256BHS. It has 2 slides, heated tanks and underbelly, bunks with one that flips up and is accessible from the outside and lots of other stuff we've never had. Now it's time to buy a truck! Thankfully, the dealer has free delivery in the city, so they'll take it to our storage area next weekend.

This place has been great. I'll stick around some, and hope the everyone makes the most of the time they have with friends and family out there on the open road!

[Festus2]

Well, the wife and I finally pulled the trigger on a new travel trailer today.

This place has been great. I'll stick around some, and hope the everyone makes the most of the time they have with friends and family out there on the open road!

Birchy Boy -
I hope you have enjoyed being a member of our forum and you're most welcome to "stick around" for as long as you like. We've all benefited from your participation. Congratulations on your new TT!

[Tbos]

BirchyBoy,
Glad to hear about your new TT. We liked the 238ml we had but needed more space. When you get the chance we'd love to see some pictures. Enjoy and happy camping.

[GaryWT]

Congrats and good luck. Friends bought an Open Range last year, they love it.

[BirchyBoy]

Here are some pics....hopefully!
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_193582_0_794a5b1d21b689e371f922a3aa6cc853.jpg
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_193582_1_79f3400a38d4a9e5660dfe47340514f8.jpg
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_193582_2_474e1400d9373dd4e3b7e179382d56f4.jpg
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_193582_3_62eed4955c93bff58163e3f3e3816bf9.jpg

[outwest]

Open Range units have lots of nice features. Enjoy your new toy!

Edit to add - I dont know if they still do (since the buyout by Jayco) but one of the nice things I saw about Open Range a few years back was that they had a service area at the factory, along with a park area w/hookups for you to park in while having your rig worked on! You had to schedule it and they had a pretty big backlog when I looked into it, but still. . . Had a used, out of warranty, unit that needed a new rear end installed (replace the entire wall on rear because of extensive water damage) and they were going to do it and at a very reasonable price. Unfortunately, the unit got totaled on the trip up to the factory :( Side note: be sure to have good anti-sway controls in place and check your brakes and brake controller regularly.

[BirchyBoy]

Thanks for the tip Outwest . I'm going to keep my Equalizer 10k and have them set it up for me.

[bsmith0404]

Congrats. We considered an Open Range as well. In the end we didn't go that route because the floor plan we liked didn't have the drop frame so it lacked basement storage, but still a very nice unit.

[Tbos]

BirchyBoy, your new TT looks nice. Enjoy.

[koko]

Beautiful trailer. Envy your heated tank and underbelly. We'd love to be set up for better cold-weather camping!

[notanlines]

Congrat's on the new trailer and new truck to come. Keep in mind that you have been shopping big already and seem to trade after two years. Get rid of your Jeep and just jump to a 350/3500 so the next time you "just pull in and look around" you'll be able to pull it to the storage area yourself and you won't have the regret of just having a 1/2 ton.

[BirchyBoy]

Congrat's on the new trailer and new truck to come. Keep in mind that you have been shopping big already and seem to trade after two years. Get rid of your Jeep and just jump to a 350/3500 so the next time you "just pull in and look around" you'll be able to pull it to the storage area yourself and you won't have the regret of just having a 1/2 ton.

Thanks. We're definitely going with a 3/4 ton. I can't do a 1 ton due to HOA restrictions. The only question is gas vs. diesel.

[dcg9381]

I can't do a 1 ton due to HOA restrictions.

How does the HOA know a 1-ton from a 3/4 ton truck?
I'd be willing to de-badge my 3500 to 2500... :-)

[BirchyBoy]

How does the HOA know a 1-ton from a 3/4 ton truck?
I'd be willing to de-badge my 3500 to 2500... :-)

The thought has crossed my mind. The rules are from the mid-Eighties. I'm wondering if they were trying to ban duallies.

[CaptnJohn]

No question ~~ diesel. I did read the Lariat package added 300# so went with the XLT package to help offset engine weight. Best move ever going to diesel ~~ unless certain never ~~ not ever ~~ going heavier. I know we are happier with the Cougar than would be with a 'lite' model of any brand, even the Cougar Lite. Comparing Cougar and Cougar lite there is very little difference in pin weight.

[denverpilot]

How does the HOA know a 1-ton from a 3/4 ton truck?

I'd be willing to de-badge my 3500 to 2500... :-)


Maybe he's thinking one ton means dually?

[sourdough]

The trailer you are looking at, about 7k dry? and maybe 8500-9000 wet? is OK with a gas engine but you're getting close to where a diesel will be nice. I pull a 10k gvw travel trailer with a 6.4L Hemi Dodge and it does great. I've used it up and down 7% grades with no problem. It does need to rev more than a diesel and it definitely does not have the torque of a diesel. Fuel mileage is a little less than a diesel as well.

The premium you pay for the diesel upon purchase, fuel, DEF etc. has to be offset (in my mind) by either lots of use, business use or something. To spend 9k extra on a vehicle so you can tow a trailer to the campground 100 miles away 3 times a year makes no sense to me; IMO. On the other hand, I had a new 2013 Ram 1500 hemi when I bought this trailer knowing that it maxed, and exceeded some of the weights. I found I wasn't as happy as I thought I would be so bought a new 2014 Ram 2500 6.4L and I'm happy. Thing is, as much as we pull the trailer now I'm thinking about a diesel (I think 10k is about max for a gasser). I've not had any of the new ones and didn't like the old ones (90-91). I don't keep vehicles long enough to worry about the long life of a diesel so it's a bit convoluted trying to justify one for me - guess I'm just too stingy.

Your decision on a diesel will hinge on what I've mentioned and more. Keep in mind that you have now upgraded your trailer and very well may do so again in the future. The trailer you're buying now is at the upper end of a gas engine's comfort zone (imo) so you may want to seriously consider a diesel. From what I can tell, aside from the sticker shock, everybody seems to love them.

[dcg9381]

Maybe he's thinking one ton means dually?

That may be what the HOA thinks too.... :-)

[JRTJH]

In response to sourdough's comments about the increased cost of buying a diesel vs a gas truck, I went to the NADA website and looked up the comparable diesel vehicles there. I used a 2011 XLT, 2011 LT and a RAM SLT, 250/2500 series crew cab, all with 75000 miles and all 4x4. Here's the "trade in value" for a "clean" truck diesel option. This figure is the "value of the diesel engine at trade in, not the actual truck. FORD= 7400, Chevrolet= 8100, RAM= 8500.

I did this based on my recent search (last spring) for a "used F250 diesel. Every current body style, diesel truck with "low mileage" that I found was "almost as much as a new truck. They were all "well over $7500 more than comparable gas trucks.

I found then (and I think the above figures verify it) that you get back in trade in everything the diesel costs, so essentially, the only "costs" involved with a diesel are the increased cost of filters, oil, DEF etc.

If you elect to buy a diesel and unless the market changes dramatically, you'll get back the cost of the diesel engine when you trade it in.

Here's the links to the trucks I checked:
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2011/Chevrolet/Silverado-2500-HD-V8/Crew-Cab-LT-4WD/Values
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2011/Ford/F250-Super-Duty-V8/Crew-Cab-XLT-4WD/Values
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/2011/Ram-Truck/Ram-2500-Pickup-V8/Crew-Cab-SLT-4WD/Values

ADDED: It is interesting to note that in two of the three, when you look at the diesel engine option in the "retail listing" the diesel engine "sales price" is actually more than it cost new. In the case of the Ford, the used engine value is $8225, the diesel option in 2011 retail cost was 7800.

[larry337]

I agree with JRTJH, the money you spend up front for the diesel is retained in resale. Used diesels are crazy high resale while used HD gassers are a little harder to sell. Plus you get to enjoy the added benefit of towing with the diesel. Sourdough makes good points if you don't tow much, but diesel is my preference hands down.

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[sourdough]

John brings up good points. In my calculations for buying a diesel I usually use the up front cost and not so much the trade in value which is really an error...I don't think that far ahead on vehicles and usually don't care I guess.

When I first seriously considered a diesel in 2012 I contacted my son who has been in the car business for decades and has overseen the values placed on trades and new car sales. He advised me 1) buy diesel, 2) buy Ford and 3) I would get a better resale. At that time he said it averaged about 4k more for a diesel trade in vs a comparably equipped gas model. I chose gas anyway.

I am a hard headed guy, used to love building my gas engines and loved the sound of a "big V8". In these days I think I'm being more and more swayed to the diesel and will have to let my love of the V8 gas engine start to give way to the torque of a diesel.....for my truck at least:) I had just visited this morning with a guy about a new Tahoe. May have to stay with my current SUV and start looking at a new diesel pickup. I would have gone with a Dodge but since I remembered my son's recommendations I may have to change:banghead: Until I moved from Ford in 1992 I had bought 37 new Fords for personal use and loved them...but then I had issues; both trucks and cars so quit. Maybe I'll have to move to uncharted territory....:eek:

[JRTJH]

LOL sourdough,

Your son gave you some good advice. It sounds like you discount your "kid's advice" much the same as I do my kid's advice... After all, we taught them all they know..... Or so the story goes LOL

Anyway, last summer when I finally gave in to my diesel wish, I started looking for a 1:1 trade for a 2013 diesel as a replacement for my 2013 gas truck. I wanted the same options, color wasn't an issue, and about the same mileage (less than 36,000). I found that every used diesel I looked at (from 2011 to current) was within 10K of a similarly equipped new truck and many of them were within 3K or 4K of new pricing. I found a 2014 F250 lariat with 32000 miles on it. The asking price for it was the same as the price I paid for my new 2015 lariat, and my NEW truck has more optional equipment than the 2014 had. I've no doubt I could have probably bought the 2014 for less after negotiating, but the price would have been so close to "new truck pricing" that it wouldn't have made sense (to me, anyway) to buy a used truck with the "bumper to bumper warranty" almost gone (only 4000 miles left).

It may be significantly different in other market areas, but up here, a "recent model" used diesel costs about as much as a new one. I haven't been on the "trade in side" of the table with a diesel, but they sure are "proud" of them around here.

[gtsum2]

Congrats on new rig. Open range has some nice units for sure. Diesels just do the job better especially with the exhaust brake coming down hills. I doubt I ever buy a gas truck again. Diesels just do it all better


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