What's up with generators?

[gearhead]

So I've been saying I wanted to go to 2 smaller gens. I've got a 3500 Champion that is too heavy for me to move around by myself. I want 2 small gens that I can load in and out of the truck by myself. So after a lot of research I settled on the Smarter Tools 2000 watt gens. I could order them from Home Depot, WalMart, Costco, or Amazon. I thought I would wait till late spring to buy them to stretch the warranty period out. Well now the only place I can find them is Amazon, and the price went up $150. At this price I may as well buy Hondas.
Anyone want to guess what is happening?? Smarter Tools going out of business? They had Yamaha engines, I wonder if Yamaha refused to sell them any more engines??

[JRTJH]

Generator models come and go, as you've illustrated. The Smarter Tools model apparently has been discontinued by Costco. You may find some still in stock at an individual Costco, but without active sales, I question whether Costco will be able to support the product. Additionally, I'd question if Smarter Tools will still be in business in the future. I have no idea and certainly no information to support that, but if their generators are becoming harder to find, I'd ask, "why?"

If you want them, they are available for $649 each at this website: http://www.hardwaretools.com/product/smarter-tools-stap-2000iq-parallel-capable-inverter-generator-with-yamaha-engine-2000-watt/?gclid=CJy127ab4soCFYU9aQodE_wGYQ

I have no idea about the reliability of that business, nor have I ever done any business with them, I just found them to have the lowest price on the Smarter Tool 2000 watt generator.

As an alternative, I've had very good service with Champion's 4000/3500 watt generator and currently am using a Champion 2000 watt inverter generator that has performed flawlessly for 2 years. That model is still available for less than $500 each on the internet with a 2 year warranty. Like you, I believe Honda is probably the best, but the price simply puts it out of consideration for the amount of use I'd get from them.

[gearhead]

I'm afraid the Smarter Tools gen is being discontinued. If that ends up being the case, I suppose it is a blessing I didn't buy them.
I had some initial issues with my Champion but its been great since. The Champ 2000 is on my short list. I probably won't put 50 hours a year on them. One or two NASCAR races and maybe a national park campground for a few days.

[Mike484]

Not to rob the thread, but I have a question about the use of two generators over one.
I need to get a generator and know that I need at least a 3000 to run the A/C. I have seen a lot of people talk about useing two and running them together. I do see where you can purchase 2 - 2000s for less than 1 - 3000, and the 2000s weigh much less than a 3000, but other than that, to run your A/C you have to run both generators. With me living in the south, I see a need to run my A/C much more than not so I will have to almost always be running both generators. Sounds like a pain in the butt to have to fuel and maintain 2 rather than just 1.
Is there any other benefit to running 2 other than 1?
And just to make sure, I have a 15,000 BTU A/C, so a 3000 is sufficient or do I need to go a little bigger?

BTW gear head, if you end up going with 2 generators and want to get rid of the one you have, I might be interested in it.

[jsmith948]

Not to rob the thread, but I have a question about the use of two generators over one.
I need to get a generator and know that I need at least a 3000 to run the A/C. I have seen a lot of people talk about useing two and running them together. I do see where you can purchase 2 - 2000s for less than 1 - 3000, and the 2000s weigh much less than a 3000, but other than that, to run your A/C you have to run both generators. With me living in the south, I see a need to run my A/C much more than not so I will have to almost always be running both generators. Sounds like a pain in the butt to have to fuel and maintain 2 rather than just 1.
Is there any other benefit to running 2 other than 1?
And just to make sure, I have a 15,000 BTU A/C, so a 3000 is sufficient or do I need to go a little bigger?

BTW gear head, if you end up going with 2 generators and want to get rid of the one you have, I might be interested in it.

I have the same questions regarding the use of 2 - 2000 watt generators as opposed to 1 - 3000 watt. Planning a trip back east this fall and want to have a generator for those times when FHUs are not available. Champion advertises their 3100i (2800 running/3000 starting) as being capable of powering a 15,000 BTU a/c. As far as weight is concerned - don't 2 - 2000 watt weigh the same (or more) than 1 - 3000 watt?

[bsmith0404]

I'm sure it's not the combined weight he's concerned about, it's the single weight of loading/unloading the generator into the back of the truck. I have the Champion 3000, I'm in pretty good shape, have spent my fair share of time in the gym, but it is getting harder to lift it into the back of the truck by myself and is absolutely not safe as a one man lift. Loading this thing could very easily ruin a planned trip and lead me to the hospital and a back surgery. IMO, if you have a Champion 3000, you need help to load it or need a receiver hitch cargo rack on the back of the RV for transporting it. The lower height is still not a safe lift, but much easier to do lifting with your legs instead of your back.

[gearhead]

I can't lift a 100 pound generator into the back of my truck, I use a engine lift to get it in there. Once I get to a destination I use extension cords from the truck to the 5th. I would like more flexibility as to where I have the gen. If I'm sitting under the awning I would like to have the gen on the opposite side of the 5th, if I'm inside trying to sleep I would like to have the gen at the back of the 5th.
I want to camp in national parks and use the gens if I need A/C (usually not, where I want to go). If not using A/C, I will need to charge the batteries occasionally; I think one of the 2,000 watt gens will do that. I don't want to run the noisy 4,000 watt gen for hours to just charge batteries.
I've been camped next to folks with the smaller pairs of gens and it is so much quieter than my gen screaming all afternoon.
edit: I've had 2 back surgeries and have a titanium plate in my neck, I don't want a 3rd surgery.
There are extended run kits that can be used on the small gens to get about 36 hours run time. Basically uses a boat outboard motor gas tank. I think Berg or IPI makes them.

[nellie1289]

this one might be a good compromise for some of you. it has pretty good reviews. I have seen it as cheap as $649 on Costco special

http://www.costco.com/Champion-2%2c800W-Running--3%2c100W-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Gas-Generator-(CARB-50-State-compliant).product.100139466.html

[JRTJH]

Gearhead,

Here is a link to the Champion 2000i generator for $499 (with $1 shipping). I think the shipping for a buck ends tomorrow, but not sure about the generator sale. They have had this model on sale several times this past year for $499. The parallel cable kit is $79. This is where I bought my generator.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/705424-champion-power-equipment-1700w-2000w-inverter-generator.html

This sale price makes buying two generators and the parallel kit essentially the same price as one Honda 2000i.

Just sayin' :)

[gearhead]

Thanks folks. I'm packing for a 5 day trip to Louisiana right now. When I get back I'll dig more.
Leaning to Honda, but........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Oh...if anyone else is looking at Honda I think Mayberry in New Jersey might have the best price. They also have the extended run gas tanks. Free shipping.

http://www.mayberrys.com/Honda/generators/eu2combo.aspx

And the tank:
http://www.mayberrys.com/Honda/accessories/bergs-dual.aspx

[larry337]

I have 2 Yamaha 2000's. If I remember right they weigh about 45 lbs each. A single 3000 Honda/Yamaha weighs around 130 lbs. So, less weight, more power, and easier to handle. I have been around the Yamahas and the Hondas and they sound and perform nearly identical. However I will say the single 3000's in both brands are quieter then twin 2000's. Between my friends and I we own them all. Mine are about 5 years old with no issues. I chose the Yamaha for the fuel gauge and fuel cutoff switch. Maybe Honda has zinc added them. I also have a friend with the twin Champion 2000w inverters and they have been flawless for about 2 years now. Not much louder, if at all, then my Yammies. For half the price are a great deal.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[B-O-B'03]

this one might be a good compromise for some of you. it has pretty good reviews. I have seen it as cheap as $649 on Costco special

http://www.costco.com/Champion-2%2c800W-Running--3%2c100W-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Gas-Generator-(CARB-50-State-compliant).product.100139466.html

I have that model, it runs my 15K BTU AC unit just fine and I can load it into the bed of the truck by myself (at almost 62 years of age), I think it weighs around 80 pounds.

I like that it has an RV outlet, fuel shut off, economy mode switch, is fairly quiet and 99% of the time starts on the first pull.

Costco has had them for $100 off twice in the last year and offers free shipping.

-Brian

[Sarvi]

Costco has had them for $100 off twice in the last year and offers free shipping.

-Brian

I keep watching for the sale again, and am going to snag one up when it happens. I've read tons of reviews and they are pretty much all positive.

[vampress_me]

Here's another idea for those who may want the Honda generators.
http://www.murdochs.com/shop/power-equipment/#node=1363716828170

It's my favorite store in Missoula, and has been for many years even when they were still called Quality Supply. And we still stop in to shop every year when we are out there since Montana has no sales tax. They also do free shipping often throughout the year, and are right now I think.

[x96mnn]

Not to rob the thread, but I have a question about the use of two generators over one.
I need to get a generator and know that I need at least a 3000 to run the A/C. I have seen a lot of people talk about useing two and running them together. I do see where you can purchase 2 - 2000s for less than 1 - 3000, and the 2000s weigh much less than a 3000, but other than that, to run your A/C you have to run both generators. With me living in the south, I see a need to run my A/C much more than not so I will have to almost always be running both generators. Sounds like a pain in the butt to have to fuel and maintain 2 rather than just 1.
Is there any other benefit to running 2 other than 1?
And just to make sure, I have a 15,000 BTU A/C, so a 3000 is sufficient or do I need to go a little bigger?

BTW gear head, if you end up going with 2 generators and want to get rid of the one you have, I might be interested in it.


Pros:
Easier to lift in and out of the truck
2 2000 put out more power then the 1 3000, ( my comparison is on Kipor 2000)
When I am not running AC 1 is plenty but as you point out may not be a value add.
Found the 2 2000s with smarts throttle easier on fuel

Cons
Your filling two generators
Your maintaining two generators

Now my question to add on, has anyone used a non invertertor generator with a APC UPS that has voltage regulation built in? Read online a lot of people are using this set up in their home, APC1300 with a generator with great success saving thousands.

[PerryB]

I went the route of (2) 2000's because of weight/portability and redundancy. If one has an issue you have a spare. Obviously you need both for A/C.

[mazboy123]

two words: honda or yamaha

[SADLY]

two words: honda or yamaha

thats 3 words

[GmaPaTime]

Gearhead,

Here is a link to the Champion 2000i generator for $499 (with $1 shipping). I think the shipping for a buck ends tomorrow, but not sure about the generator sale. They have had this model on sale several times this past year for $499. The parallel cable kit is $79. This is where I bought my generator.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/705424-champion-power-equipment-1700w-2000w-inverter-generator.html

This sale price makes buying two generators and the parallel kit essentially the same price as one Honda 2000i.

Just sayin' :)

X2 JRTJH.......

We've been very happy with our Champion since getting it and for the reasons John states, buy 2 for the same $$ as 1 Honda. :)

Steve

[Sarvi]

The Champion 2800/3100 is on sale at Costco through March 21, $100 off.

I will be getting one for sure!

http://www.costco.com/Champion-2%2c800W-Running--3%2c100W-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Gas-Generator-(CARB-50-State-compliant).product.100139466.html

[Pmedic4]

Oddly, I have two generators now, one is a 5K watt monster, that weighs more than me, and that's saying a lot! :eek: Also have a 3K, that runs on propane, which is an absolute bear to start, but runs good.

Yet, I still yearn for the 2000 watt Honda, just cause it's easier to handle and expected longevity. The local 'Farm & Home' has them for the usual price of $999.00, and they often run a 10% off sale for Seniors/Veterans. So, I keep thinking about it, but always get back to just really do I need it?

Guess I'm waiting for something really special, or, I'll just go where they have power.

[nellie1289]

does anybody know the DB rating or have a audio clip of this champion running. may have to google it.


On edit, here is a pretty good demonstration video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHw1J_Yt-1E

[zuley]

There has been a fair amount of chatter the past couple of days on a couple of posts. Fantastic information shared by everyone. I ened up going out and purchasing the Champion 2000 watt inverter model last night. Canadian Tire has them advertized for 649. here in Canada. So, I'm reading the manual when I got home. It states not to start the gen up with anything plugged in or when shutting down to unplug the load and let it idle for a minute prior. For anyone using or owning this model how important is that? Generally I would plug the shore power cable from my TT into it when we arrive at our site and fire the gen up periodically as required. Now that brings something else to mind that I do not understand. Champion also has a 3100 watt with a remote start option that I considered purchasing. Too heavy I decided. By stating that there should not be anthing plugged into the unit at start up does that not defeat the purpose of the remote start? Certainly they do not expect you to push the start button from the confines of your trailer and then walk outside to plug in whatever.

[jsmith948]

According to the specs, the Champion 3100 invertor generator is rated at 58db.
Doesn't say if that is at 25% power. The fuel consumption is listed as 8hrs on a 1.6gal tank at 25% power, so, I'm guessing the db rating is at the lower rpm.

Added: Zuley - the online info indicates that the 3100 remote start can be started with the trailer plugged in - seems there is a 19sec (Not sure if memory serves) delay after start-up.

[JRTJH]

There has been a fair amount of chatter the past couple of days on a couple of posts. Fantastic information shared by everyone. I ened up going out and purchasing the Champion 2000 watt inverter model last night. Canadian Tire has them advertized for 649. here in Canada. So, I'm reading the manual when I got home. It states not to start the gen up with anything plugged in or when shutting down to unplug the load and let it idle for a minute prior. For anyone using or owning this model how important is that? Generally I would plug the shore power cable from my TT into it when we arrive at our site and fire the gen up periodically as required. Now that brings something else to mind that I do not understand. Champion also has a 3100 watt with a remote start option that I considered purchasing. Too heavy I decided. By stating that there should not be anthing plugged into the unit at start up does that not defeat the purpose of the remote start? Certainly they do not expect you to push the start button from the confines of your trailer and then walk outside to plug in whatever.

To answer your question, it's important !!! If you think about how a "portable generator" performs its tasks, it is a gasoline powered motor coupled to a "wire wound generator head". As with any gasoline motor, it should be "warmed up" prior to placing a load on it. Since there's no way to uncouple the generator head, the only effective way to "reduce the load" (by unplugging the trailer) until the motor is warmed up and properly lubricated is to not place a load on the generator head so the unit can "turn easily until warm"...

As for shutdown, the "generator head" is nothing more than a series of "varnish coated copper wires" that are wound around a spindle and mounted inside a series of magnets. As the copper wire turns inside the magnets, they produce electric current. Production of that current causes heat. The varnish coated copper wires get hot. Shutting them down when hot will create "hot spots" on the winding and eventually "melt the varnish coating" causing the generator head windings to fail. By removing the load, you allow the copper windings to turn inside the magnets without a load, giving them time to cool down before they stop turning next to a hot magnet. That will "preserve" the varnish coating for a longer time, adding to the longevity of the generator head.

So, if you want your investment to last as long as possible, startup load should be removed to prevent "strain" on the cold engine and shutdown load should be removed to prevent "hot spots" on the generator head windings....

I hope this makes sense to you the way I described it....

[zuley]

Yes Sir, it does. Again thank you.

[jsmith948]

Good point/info regarding start-up and shut down. Based on this info, I suppose the remote start feature WOULD be of no use. The info from Cabela's ad on their website mentions the ability to remotely start this genset because of the delay feature. I suppose one could shut the main breaker off at the trailer control panel - remotely start the gen - allow sufficient warm up - then turn on the breaker (probably shortening the life of the breaker)
For my money, I can walk out and pull the cord and save the extra cost of the remote start and the problems/maint that the battery and starting motor will have/require.:)

[JRTJH]

Good point/info regarding start-up and shut down. Based on this info, I suppose the remote start feature WOULD be of no use. The info from Cabela's ad on their website mentions the ability to remotely start this genset because of the delay feature. I suppose one could shut the main breaker off at the trailer control panel - remotely start the gen - allow sufficient warm up - then turn on the breaker (probably shortening the life of the breaker)
For my money, I can walk out and pull the cord and save the extra cost of the remote start and the problems/maint that the battery and starting motor will have/require.:)

Keep in mind that what I'm about to post is "purely my speculation" and I don't have any "documentation to back it up", so here goes: I think that the 19 second delay is to "remove the generator load during startup" so the starter motor is able to turn the crankshaft on the generator gas motor. Think about trying to start a manual transmission truck without pushing in the clutch and it's a similar operation.

I'd guess (again speculation) that Champion's engineers have decided that the 19 second delay is sufficient time to crank the engine, get it running and "sling some oil" onto the connecting rod bearings/crankshaft"... If that's true, then that may be all the time that's needed.... But, putting the motor "under a load" before it's warmed up, could also cause unnecessary wear....

I've no doubt that Champion's engineers are concerned with reliability of their product, but I'd also surmise that their "primary consideration" for that engineering is to provide for "reliability during the warranty"..... Prolonging the life of any product includes some effort on the part of the operator, usually long after the warranty has expired. That operator maintenance/protective practices likely prolongs the reliability far more than the "engineering considerations for a 19 second delay"...

Just my thoughts on why Champion and Cabela's make the claims they make.....

ADDED: Like you, for my money (and peace of mind) I can walk outside, pull the rope, wait until it's warm and plug in the trailer. All that extra stuff: Battery, starter, wiring, remote control system, etc. is just "stuff to break"... The "KISS" concept has merit, at least with my way of thinking LOL

[SADLY]

If you choose to Plug-in and un-plug the generator.. You should STILL shut your RV's main breaker off... Plug in (or unplug).... And THEN turn main breaker on.

Reason is you don't want to plug your camper into a live circuit.. The immediate draw (converter, microwave clock, anything else that's "on") will cause a small arc each time. This will ultimately char/discolor the copper prongs on your plug or dog-bone.

I do the same when plugging in (or unplugging) from my garage plug or the camp site power pedestal. You don't want to hear a tiny "pop" when you plug it in.

[B-O-B'03]

If you choose to Plug-in and un-plug the generator.. You should STILL shut your RV's main breaker off... Plug in (or unplug).... And THEN turn main breaker on.

Reason is you don't want to plug your camper into a live circuit.. The immediate draw (converter, microwave clock, anything else that's "on") will cause a small arc each time. This will ultimately char/discolor the copper prongs on your plug or dog-bone.

I do the same when plugging in (or unplugging) from my garage plug or the camp site power pedestal. You don't want to hear a tiny "pop" when you plug it in.

+1

I always flip the main breaker off, in the camper, before plugging in or unplugging... shore power or generator.

-Brian

[Desert185]

As far as generator warmup prior to a load, if you have a surge protector there is a two minute delay (mine is 128 seconds) for sampling power before connection. This should be enough time for the generator to sufficiently warm up (during normal camping season temps) before creating a load.

[nellie1289]

Hey folks, so I borrowed my neighbors Honda EU 2000, and here is my Yamaha 4500(my main house backup and long trip generator for boondocking) and the new Champion 2800 Generator I just got. I am going to do some sound tests. the advertised DB levels are

Yamaha- 58db
Champion-58db
Honda- 53db

Gonna use my iPhone to test.

I will play around with them today and see what I learn and report back. I am surprised how small the champion is and its pretty easy to move around and lift. 30Amp pug on such a big generator is a great thing!

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_195239_0_46d4ed6398c227e6b82ba87496199477.jpeg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_195239_1_5e75bffd7686c21d9d5cb16aebbd2fce.jpeg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_195239_2_fbaa270168476aa213259c105a2717aa.jpeg

[nellie1289]

ok.... I tested them out and hear are the results using the following criteria:

I used a DB app for my iPhone, I positioned myself 2 feet with the muffler side facing me:

Yamaha 4500ise- Full load(smart throttle off) 58 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load 53db.

Champion 2800/3100 (Costco model). Full load (smart throttle off) 59 db, smart throttle on with limited load 53 db.

Honda EU 2000- Full load(smart throttle off) 54 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load. 47db*

*It is worth nothing we put synthetic oil in the Honda(10w 30 mobil 1), Yamalube 10W40 in the Yamaha, and Champion's own 10w30 oil that came with it in the box in the Champion. The Honda is noticeably 2db quieter with the synthetic vs previous dino oil.

I have not used this champion yet for duration. I can tell you I am super impressed with it so far, time will tell. it is a great value and will power your 13,500 btu(probably 15,000 btu based on reviews I have seen online).

Costco delivered the Champion in 3 days to my home from Los Angeles shipping point. it is very easy for me to lift an move myself.

Happy to answer any other questions people might have.

[mfifield01]

ok.... I tested them out and hear are the results using the following criteria:

I used a DB app for my iPhone, I positioned myself 2 feet with the muffler side facing me:

Yamaha 4500ise- Full load(smart throttle off) 58 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load 53db.

Champion 2800/3100 (Costco model). Full load (smart throttle off) 59 db, smart throttle on with limited load 53 db.

Honda EU 2000- Full load(smart throttle off) 54 db, smart throttle on with limited to no load. 47db*

*It is worth nothing we put synthetic oil in the Honda(10w 30 mobil 1), Yamalube 10W40 in the Yamaha, and Champion's own 10w30 oil that came with it in the box in the Champion. The Honda is noticeably 2db quieter with the synthetic vs previous dino oil.

I have not used this champion yet for duration. I can tell you I am super impressed with it so far, time will tell. it is a great value and will power your 13,500 btu(probably 15,000 btu based on reviews I have seen online).

Costco delivered the Champion in 3 days to my home from Los Angeles shipping point. it is very easy for me to lift an move myself.

Happy to answer any other questions people might have. Do you think the Champion would benefit from Synthetic oil (lower DB)?

I have the Champion 2000 and it's relatively quiet. Ran a 100' extension cord with it in some trees last weekend and could barely tell when it was running.

[hankaye]

nellie1289, Howdy;

Thanks for taking the time to do what you already have. However, how about
a comparison at a reasonable Boondock campsite distance of say 15 - 30 feet?
Should be more of what folks run into, even with regular ambient background levels...

hankaye

[nellie1289]

nellie1289, Howdy;

Thanks for taking the time to do what you already have. However, how about
a comparison at a reasonable Boondock campsite distance of say 15 - 30 feet?
Should be more of what folks run into, even with regular ambient background levels...

hankaye

Hi Hankaye

I did what you asked. from about 25 feet with the muffler pointing towards me all three gave similar results:

smart throttle on(no load)
Honda: 16 db
Yamaha: 18 db(keep in mind this is an 11 horsepower engine producing tons of power)
Champion: 18db

Full throttle(with load):
Honda: 20 db
Yamaha: 22db(see above about being a much more powerful gen)
Champion 23 db

All are very queit machines. This was in my culdesac so there is surely some house reverberation but these are all whisper quiet. you cant go wrong with any of them. I feel all three are premium machines, and the champion blows them out of the water on cost. Now then, reliability on that one still TBD. only 2 hours on it now!

Let me know if anyone else has questions.

[nellie1289]

Do you think the Champion would benefit from Synthetic oil (lower DB)?

I have the Champion 2000 and it's relatively quiet. Ran a 100' extension cord with it in some trees last weekend and could barely tell when it was running.

Not sure, but I will be switching to synthetic at 5 hours when the first oil change is required. Will probably always run yamalube in the 4500ise.

[SADLY]

Like button

[nellie1289]

ha thanks, this is a pretty solid post if I do say so myself (tx)

[Weber]

Love all the data. Great job nellie1289. Now to pull the trigger on the champion. We don't boondock much but we may a bit more if there is a quiet option for power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gearhead]

Excellent info.
As usual it's a cost vs. reputation thing.

[hankaye]

nellie1289, Howdy;

Thanks for doing the second test, speaks well of them all.


hankaye

[GADuv]

nellie1289,
What all where you able to operate on generator power from the champion? I am curious if not hooked to shore power will it run the ac along with lights and the water pump? Have you had a chance to do testing in this type of situation?

[nellie1289]

Gaduv. My trailer is currently in the shop for the awning so I haven live tested it yet but all the reviews I have read say it would do that no problem. I did hookup a coffee maker and blow dryer today to it and it ran both no problem which kills the Honda (overload). May be a few days till I get trailer back. Read the reviews on Costco in meantime. I will say it is much quieter than some of the complaints on noise I read.

[nellie1289]

So I ran an "advertised" 1500 watt space heater:


http://www.amazon.com/Lasko-5307-Oscillating-Ceramic-16-Inch/dp/B005M03ER4/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1457299751&sr=1-4&keywords=lasko+heater

and an advertised "1600 watt hairdryer" at full blast.

And the champion ran it no problem. For what its worth. Smart throttle worked pretty well too.

[denverpilot]

One thing to keep in mind is the human ear characteristic that low frequency and high frequency sounds are generally less "heard" than mid-range frequency sounds. Three tones at different frequencies at the same sound pressure level will sound louder or softer than the others depending on that feature of human ears and also if you have any frequency specific hearing loss.

Most gensets end up sounding similar in tone/frequency but when they don't, the measured dB level of the actually sound pressure may not be the only factor.

In accurate measurements this feature is known as the "A-weighting scale".

[Desert185]

I still like the idea of two, 2000W generators. Easy to lug around, especially when I (usually) only need one for the Keurig or charging batteries. Running one 2000W is quieter, and it burns less gas.

FWIW, the Costco purchased, Smarter Tools inverter 2000's with Yamaha engines are still working well. While I haven't seen them at Costco recently, they are still available at Walmart, Home Depot and Amazon.

[nellie1289]

I still like the idea of two, 2000W generators. Easy to lug around, especially when I (usually) only need one for the Keurig or charging batteries. Running one 2000W is quieter, and it burns less gas.

FWIW, the Costco purchased, Smarter Tools inverter 2000's with Yamaha engines are still working well. While I haven't seen them at Costco recently, they are still available at Walmart, Home Depot and Amazon.

I can see that too, but I think the tipping point for many people is being able to power your a/c without running 2 which is what makes this 2800 appealing to some

[Mike484]

I just recieved the Champion 2800/3100, hope its all that the reviews report. I went with the one because we live in the south and we will probably need the 15,000 BTU A/C more often than not. We will do very little boondocking, mostly just while traveling and stopping for an over night, otherwise we will always stay where we have full hookups so the need for a generator should be minimal but when we do need it, we will need our A/C. There just didnt seem to be much advantage for us to have two in our situation.

[Desert185]

I can see that too, but I think the tipping point for many people is being able to power your a/c without running 2 which is what makes this 2800 appealing to some

Yeah, either way involves compromise. We find ourselves using one 2000W more often than two. If we need two, then we have more than 2800W available. It's nice to have a selection so everyone can have what they want/need/can afford.

[gearhead]

Well, I pulled the trigger last night. Told the wife I'm tired of thinking about it. My needs are for 2 gens that I can easily move around. Also wanted an extended run kit.
So, hello Camping World. Two Honda 2000 invertors, 2 theft deterring handle kits, one parallel kit with RV plug and 2 covers. Then to Amazon for the IPI extended run kit.
Visa is smoking.

[nellie1289]

So I got my trailer back from shop today and plugged in the new 2800 champion generator, fired up the ac, tested it out etc.

I was very impressed, it didn't even move off low idle when I plugged it into the trailer. The only thing on inside was a few lights, and the bathroom fan. When I fired up the a/c. it grabbed a gear and seamlessly went to a higher rpm. again. No issues whatsoever. With AC running and sitting 2 feet away from generator 59 db was the reading and from 25 feet away 24 db. It was backed against my house so there was probably even some reverberation. Anyway, I am totally impressed. Hopefully this unit holds up over the long haul.

[Mike484]

Nellie, what size is you A/C.
Appreciate your comparison, very interesting and informative.
I have a 15,000 BTU and from the reviews, looked like I would have no problem with the Champion 2800/3100. Looks like they were right.

[nellie1289]

Mine is 13500 but looks like you will have no issue with 15000 either

[Desert185]

Well, I pulled the trigger last night. Told the wife I'm tired of thinking about it. My needs are for 2 gens that I can easily move around. Also wanted an extended run kit.
So, hello Camping World. Two Honda 2000 invertors, 2 theft deterring handle kits, one parallel kit with RV plug and 2 covers. Then to Amazon for the IPI extended run kit.
Visa is smoking.

If I hadn't run into the irresistible deal at Costco last year on those Smarter Tools 2KW, I would have done the same thing. No one can argue your choice. :thumbsup:

[gearhead]

If I hadn't run into the irresistible deal at Costco last year on those Smarter Tools 2KW, I would have done the same thing. No one can argue your choice. :thumbsup:
It was just so....painful....$$

[Desert185]

It was just so....painful....$$

A lot less painful than line #3 in your signature. :D

[gearhead]

A lot less painful than line #3 in your signature. :D
Indeed it was!
But....I got a decent price for the Corvette, selling to a 23 yr. old, and a much higher than expected trade-in for the F350. But yeah, painful.
I'm still buying toys like these gens out of my post-retirement contract work account. I haven't worked in 6-8 months and likely never will again. If I could stay off Amazon and Buds Gun Shop I might make the year before I close the account!
You know anything about Howa mini-action rifles??? LOL

[Desert185]

Indeed it was!
But....I got a decent price for the Corvette, selling to a 23 yr. old, and a much higher than expected trade-in for the F350. But yeah, painful.
I'm still buying toys like these gens out of my post-retirement contract work account. I haven't worked in 6-8 months and likely never will again. If I could stay off Amazon and Buds Gun Shop I might make the year before I close the account!
You know anything about Howa mini-action rifles??? LOL

Congrats on retirement. I just retired, again, for the third time (the charm). It feels good. Looking forward to exploring more of NV with the toy hauler, the RZR, the wife, the dog and friends. Hope you're enjoying it as much as I am.

An ex-gun shop owner friend of mine swears by Howas. I don't know much about them, but I can build you a heck of an AK. :thumbsup:

[nellie1289]

so I went out and used the champion for about 7 hours this last weekend. it was great! super quiet!!!!! it ran the ac(just testing it out) no problem. It basically runs the whole trailer on the lowest throttle possible if all you were doing was lights, tv, and whatever else is normally running. It ran hair dryer and kuerig coffee maker at same time, it ran the fireplace no problem. Very pleased with this. It ran about 6 hours on the one tank of fuel(1.6 gallons) with some medium to moderate use(ran the fireplace a while to give it a workout). Also, I changed the oil at 7 hours(book recommends 5) and put 10w30 mobil 1 synthetic in it. The unit runs a little quieter on the synthetic, about 2-3 db from some quick testing noted above. If this thing holds up it is the steal of the century.

when it was running full load I walked about 75 feet away and couldn't hear it at all at 11pm at night(no big appliances going). It starts on one easy pull every time. The smart throttle adapts to heavier loads seamlessly.

[Mike484]

I picked up ne of the Champion 2800/3100. Plan to use synthetic, hope to try it out on our CC trip in a couple weeks, but actually, I hope we never use it except for an over night. I prefer to stay in parks that have full hookups, but even at that, it's nice to know we have back-up if ever needed.

Thanks a million for your report Nellie, that is what tipped the scale for me and got me to get it.

[Sarvi]

My Champion arrived yesterday, less than a week after ordering. I haven't unboxed it yet, but have big plans for it.

[nellie1289]

interesting, Costco now has the same model, with parallel ability, and in dual fuel (gas/natural gas)

http://www.costco.com/Champion-DUAL-FUEL-2800wt-Running--3100wt-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Generator%2c-Electric-Start%2c-RV-Ready%2c-Parallel-Capable%2c-CARB-%2526-EPA-Certified%2c-Low-Decibels.product.100284958.html

[Mike484]

And electric start, looks like the one to have for only $1,000 bucks.

[gearhead]

I got the 2 Honda 2000 invertors a few days ago. Filled (400ml) with Pennzoil 10-30 and ran a tank of gas through both, about 8-9 hours, at varying loads. Drained the oil, replaced with Pennzoil synthetic, and drained the carbs. Ready to go, when the 5th gets out of the shop. Complete replacement of the shower door.

[Desert185]

interesting, Costco now has the same model, with parallel ability, and in dual fuel (gas/natural gas)

http://www.costco.com/Champion-DUAL-FUEL-2800wt-Running--3100wt-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Generator%2c-Electric-Start%2c-RV-Ready%2c-Parallel-Capable%2c-CARB-%2526-EPA-Certified%2c-Low-Decibels.product.100284958.html

"Lightweight...only 93#"

:D

[nellie1289]

"Lightweight...only 93#"

:D

Well I can tell you I move the 2800/3100 around easily it's 84 lbs in the gas only. Beats my 4500 which is 200lbs lol

[Desert185]

Well I can tell you I move the 2800/3100 around easily it's 84 lbs in the gas only. Beats my 4500 which is 200lbs lol

I guess "lightweight" is a relative term. My 2000's are 44# each. 51dB.

[nellie1289]

Who ever said the Hondas aren't great units ? Just providing information on multiple units here for everyone's benefit. The champion rolls too which makes it close to no lbs ;)

[cw3jason]

I am going to go with this one. parallel capability and wheels :)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-2-200-Watt-Green-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2200/203617901

[Desert185]

Who ever said the Hondas aren't great units ? Just providing information on multiple units here for everyone's benefit. The champion rolls too which makes it close to no lbs ;)

I don't have Hondas. I wonder how that wheeled Champion will drag over dirt/gravel and then roll itself back into the pickup bed? Just thinking down the road...

Having said that, I think the Champion is a good option, but not for me. Two 2000's suit our needs better, because I might just need one for something besides the trailer. I just don't feel that 93# is light for my purposes...wheels or not.

[mfifield01]

I'm surprised that it's 93 lbs. I thought it would be well over 100. It has remote start which would add a battery and motor.

I'm in the debate of getting a second Champion 2000 or selling my current Champion and getting the 2800/3100. I'll probably get the bigger Champion.

[JRTJH]

I am going to go with this one. parallel capability and wheels :)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-2-200-Watt-Green-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2200/203617901

You might want to listen to this generator run before making your decision (if possible). From the specs, it's significantly louder than the typical inverter generator. The Champion, Honda and Yamaha are listed in the 53dB range, the Ryobi is listed at 63dB. It could be that the sound was measured differently or that the generator makes more noise.... I've never heard a Ryobi in operation, maybe another member who has would be able to compare the sound levels ????

[Mike484]

I am going to go with this one. parallel capability and wheels :)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-2-200-Watt-Green-Gasoline-Powered-Digital-Inverter-Generator-RYI2200/203617901

You may want to consider the Champion 2800/3100. If you shop around, you can usually get it for just over $100 more. Then you wouldny have to buy a second one or a parallel cable. Unless of course, the two smaller ones fit your needs better.

[nellie1289]

I'm surprised that it's 93 lbs. I thought it would be well over 100. It has remote start which would add a battery and motor.

I'm in the debate of getting a second Champion 2000 or selling my current Champion and getting the 2800/3100. I'll probably get the bigger Champion.

Mfifield- the one that is gas only is 84 lbs, I am 43 years old, for me the 2800/3100 champion is super easy to left and put in the side hatch of the RV. Which is another nice bonus, it easily fits in the side hatch which a lot of the bigger generators will not do(like the Honda eu3000 for example). At least on my unit it wouldn't.

[cabinfever]

Maybe one of these for those heavier generators?


http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-capacity-pickup-truck-crane-60732.html

[nellie1289]

You may want to consider the Champion 2800/3100. If you shop around, you can usually get it for just over $100 more. Then you wouldny have to buy a second one or a parallel cable. Unless of course, the two smaller ones fit your needs better.

I would make home depot start it up for you. at our tailgaiting I have seen some Ryobi's and Honeywells that scream they are very loud. only listening to one yourself will you know if it will be acceptable. That is why I was so impressed by the champion, it is basically Honda and Yamaha quiet. I cant say enough positive things about it and I own the cats meow Yamaha 4500ise! And our tailgaiting group owns the Honda EU 2000 which is the finest generator for its size on the market.

[nellie1289]

by the way saw Costco has the smarter tools Yamaha powered generator. I have heard this one before, its pretty quiet too.

http://www.costco.com/Smarter-Tools-2000-watt-Parallel-Capable-Inverter-Generator-with-Yamaha%c2%ae-Engine.product.100121916.html

Parallel ability too.

[gearhead]

by the way saw Costco has the smarter tools Yamaha powered generator. I have heard this one before, its pretty quiet too.

http://www.costco.com/Smarter-Tools-2000-watt-Parallel-Capable-Inverter-Generator-with-Yamaha%c2%ae-Engine.product.100121916.html

Parallel ability too.

I came so close to buying the Smarter Tools. But here is no extended run kit for them yet. I didn't want to redneck it and drill a hole in the gas cap.

[Weber]

Ok I just got the camper out of storage and hooked it up to my Troy-bilt generator. Yes it is loud like a mower but it powers both a/c units and all lights with no trouble. Plus was bought and paid for years ago. Haha. Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to have a nice quiet champion (actually had one in my cart several times) but could not pull the trigger. We don't dry camp much maybe once or twice a year so I have to stick with my loud mower type generator. Maybe some day I will be able to justify it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mfifield01]

The Champion 2800/3100 is for sale at my local Costco ($699). I was really close to buying it yesterday. Weight in the shipping box was not bad. I load a tote tank in the back of my truck that weighs more (11 gallons).

[dcg9381]

That's a good price... Seems if you're going to use these for multiple hours, they probably require an exterior gas tank / feed...

I may buy one @ $699 - have to look locally, seem to be $850 online.

[mfifield01]

You can get the extended run kit from Supergen.

I'd pull the trigger on this, but I don't have any camps planned that need it. I have reservations at sites with electric hookup through the summer.

[PhilDeb]

Cosco sometimes has the $100 rebate on that generator.

Right now the Duel Fuel version is $150 off.

http://www.costco.com/Champion-DUAL-FUEL-2800wt-Running--3100wt-Peak-Digital-Inverter-Generator%2c-Electric-Start%2c-RV-Ready%2c-Parallel-Capable%2c-CARB-%2526-EPA-Certified%2c-Low-Decibels.product.100284958.html

[KSH]

Is it more cost effective to run it on propane than gas? Does everything else function the same? I bought the gas one but am considering returning it in favor of the dual fuel one. Any opinions?

[dcg9381]

Propane is has less energy - it consumes more fuel. At the current cost of propane, it's probably more cost effective. Burns cleaner.
If you'll notice, it appears to slightly de-rate the genset.

It's much harder (for me) to fill propane...

[nellie1289]

not sure what your price of propane is but here propane costs way more than a gallon of gas and the propane one doesn't run for nearly as long either. stick with gas!

[PhilDeb]

"The inverter generator can run off of gasoline (8 hours runtime on full tank of gas – 1.6 gallon – at 25% load) or propane (LPG) gas (20 hours runtime on full 5 gallon/20# propane tank at 25% load)"

1.6 gallons of gas at $2 each = $3.20 for 8 hours = $0.40 / hour

A 20# propane refill is around $15. Divided by 20 hours is $0.75 / hour

[nellie1289]

does anyone know what you would have to do to make a propane generator like the one mentioned above be able to run on natural gas? Seems like being able to hook a unit like that up to a BBQ natural gas outlet off your house would make for endless run time in a power outage but I think there are differences for NG VS LP.

[mfifield01]

My assumption is that you need to change the jet out. I went from NG to Propane when I moved houses. I got a propane conversion kit for the dryer. It was basically a smaller jet.

[mfifield01]

I just ordered the Champion 3100w from SuperGen. I called them and had them add the extended run fuel kit. I'll add an external 5 gallon gas can.

[RK1978]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are these AC or DC generators? and if AC, how do you sync the frequency between the two?

[Festus2]

All of the "RV-type" generators produce 120VAC. Some have 2 120VAC 15/20A outlets while some of the larger generators will most likely have 1 - 120VAC rated at 30A designed especially for RV use.
Again, some models have 1 12VDC outlet rated at approx. 8A for charging batteries.

A few of the newer generators also have a USB outlet.

Primarily, the generator's function is to produce AC current.

The two operate independently from each other so there is no need to "sync".

[Desert185]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but are these AC or DC generators? and if AC, how do you sync the frequency between the two?

AC, like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N14--EO1akc

[mfifield01]

I just got my Champion 3100w with extended run fuel kit. Anyone used the extended run kit? I have a regular external 5.3 gallon tank, but I'm thinking about getting a marine fuel tank with fittings.

[gearhead]

I just got a IPI extended run kit for the 2 Honda's. Haven't tried it yet.

[mfifield01]

I wanted a quick disconnect for my extended run kit, so I added the Attwood sprayless connector and Attwood 6 gallon marine fuel tank. I ran it for 2 hours and it seems to run great. I can also use the internal tank, so I've got 7.6 gallons total.

[Mike484]

I got the Champion 2800/3100 that did not have the extended run kit. I was wondering if adding one would be any trouble?

[nellie1289]

I wanted a quick disconnect for my extended run kit, so I added the Attwood sprayless connector and Attwood 6 gallon marine fuel tank. I ran it for 2 hours and it seems to run great. I can also use the internal tank, so I've got 7.6 gallons total.

Hey Mfifield- I have this generator. can you give more details on this setup? like what did you have to do to get this to work, how hard was it, where did you get that tank etc? Any links to it?

Thanks!

[mfifield01]

I actually ordered the generator with the kit from Supergen. It was $79 for the kit. They charged an hour of labor to install it ($65).

If I already had the generator, I could easily install it. Basically it's a fuel pump, fuel line, and external barb. The fuel pump is inline between the internal and external tanks. You would need to drill a hole for the external barb connection. They provide everything except the tank. Their kit shows drilling a hole in a standard gas can and running the clear line into the can with a gasket. I wanted a quick connect, so I ran mine to a marine tank. If you need more details about the external tank, let me know. In the end, Supergen will sell you the kit for $79.

[Mike484]

Looks like this one you just change gas caps, reviews are good, wonder if it really works.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200402013_200402013

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200466815_200466815

I'll have to go look at the Supergen kit.

[mfifield01]

Looks like this one you just change gas caps, reviews are good, wonder if it really works.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200402013_200402013

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200466815_200466815

I'll have to go look at the Supergen kit.
Those will only work with the listed generators. Those listed generators have the fuel pump from the factory. The Champion is only gravity feed. The kit from Supergen has a fuel pump.

http://www.supergenproducts.com/contact/

[Mike484]

Thanks. I have searched the internet and cannot find anything. I sent a request for information through the link you provided, hope they reply.

[nellie1289]

mike484, post what you find, because I don't see anyting on their website either

[mfifield01]

It's not on their website. Give them a call and they'll give you information. They have awesome customer service.

[Mike484]

Hers an installation video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPdMvS7MvlY

[mfifield01]

Some more detail. The kit is all 1/4" hose, but it was impossible to find a 1/4" marine style fitting. I purchased a 3/8" or 5/16" quick connect (below), but it didn't fit. So I purchased some some 5/16" fuel line from Autozone. Then I ran the clear 1/4" hose (from the kit) to a 5/16" barbed splicer. Then from here I ran the 5/16" hose to the Attwood quick connect. Now I can easily disconnect the 6 gallon tank and take it to fill up. You could run the generator almost indefinitely. You can flip over to the internal tank and fill the external up, then reconnect the external and flip back.

The tank was purchased at Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-6-Gallon-Fuel-Tank/16350987

The quick connect fitting was purchased at Academy: http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/attwood-universal-sprayless-connector?repChildCatid=1000661

I had the 5/16" splicer from a previous project. You can get the 5/16" fuel line at most auto parts stores.

[mfifield01]

Has anyone used the Champion 3100w with 15k A/C and in Eco mode? I got it to run the 15k A/C fine, but it needed to start with Eco Off. After it was running, I could turn Eco On.

I might need a hard start capacitor, but wanted to see if anyone had any different results.

[nellie1289]

Has anyone used the Champion 3100w with 15k A/C and in Eco mode? I got it to run the 15k A/C fine, but it needed to start with Eco Off. After it was running, I could turn Eco On.

I might need a hard start capacitor, but wanted to see if anyone had any different results.

Probably doesn't help you but mine starts the 13.500 btu on Eco mode

[Mike484]

SuperGen answered me and sent information, way too much to post here, so if you are interested, PM me and I will forward via email the info to you.

[Mike484]

Some more detail. The kit is all 1/4" hose, but it was impossible to find a 1/4" marine style fitting. I purchased a 3/8" or 5/16" quick connect (below), but it didn't fit. So I purchased some some 5/16" fuel line from Autozone. Then I ran the clear 1/4" hose (from the kit) to a 5/16" barbed splicer. Then from here I ran the 5/16" hose to the Attwood quick connect. Now I can easily disconnect the 6 gallon tank and take it to fill up. You could run the generator almost indefinitely. You can flip over to the internal tank and fill the external up, then reconnect the external and flip back.

The tank was purchased at Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-6-Gallon-Fuel-Tank/16350987

The quick connect fitting was purchased at Academy: http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/attwood-universal-sprayless-connector?repChildCatid=1000661

I had the 5/16" splicer from a previous project. You can get the 5/16" fuel line at most auto parts stores.

Have you had a chance to try it yet? Are you happy with it? I want to get one, just want to know if you are happy with it or if I should go with the $250 from Bottom Line Trading.

[mfifield01]

I ran it for 2 hours without any problems. I'm happy with it. The real test is running it overnight. I don't see how the other kits are any better.

Do you happen to have a 15k btu A/C? I'm curious about starting it with Eco Mode on.

[Mike484]

My A/C is 15k, but I have not used the generator yet. I bought the generator just for backup or a quick overnight at Walmart, we plan to always stay where there's power. Hopefully I will never have any issues.

Just want to add the extended run in case we ever need it.

Does this one have the marine fuel line connection? I see you added one from Academy, just curious which one comes with it. (I prefer the double prong one)

[Mike484]

Here's a do it yourself video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQi_gejUPts

[mfifield01]

My A/C is 15k, but I have not used the generator yet. I bought the generator just for backup or a quick overnight at Walmart, we plan to always stay where there's power. Hopefully I will never have any issues.

Just want to add the extended run in case we ever need it.

Does this one have the marine fuel line connection? I see you added one from Academy, just curious which one comes with it. (I prefer the double prong one)

The kit doesn't come with the marine connection. I almost bought the double prong connection, but saw the newer sprayless Attwood connector. I bought it instead. It is supposed to eliminate or reduce the spray when disconnecting. Let me know if you want me to take any specific pics.

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/store/product/universal-sprayless-connector

[Mike484]

Here's the answer to my inquiry about the Champion extended run kit:

Hello Mike,

Here is some information on the kit. I should be getting it listed soon on our www.supergenproducts.com website. For now these pictures will give you an idea. We sell it for $79.95 including shipping. You must supply your own fuel can source but we supply a 4 ft. pickup hose for the connection. We supply a sealing grommet and recommend a 5 gal plastic can for best use. Use the aux. gas can and when it is empty, use the inverters main tank while you go to refill the plastic can.

The following will give you some idea how it works. Sorry i have done a complete pictorial yet, but the instructions are included with this email.
Thanks for your interest. We have them ready to ship and offer 24 hr. help at our phone no. 1-8-GENERATOR (843) 637-2867

Thanks for your interest,
Paul Cole Super Gen Products - West
Azusa, CA