Can a 2500 Duramax tow 2016 355TS

[vabow]

Can I tow a 2016 Raptor 355TS with a 2015 Chevy 2500 Duramax short bed 4x4? I do not carry water or keep a lot of stuff in the rv and will have a full dresser Harley in the cargo area. Mostly short weekend trip. I know the weight is good just don't know what the pin weight may be. Thanks

[bsmith0404]

Toy Haulers are notoriously pin heavy. Keystone lists that particular one at 3400 lbs on the pin and 16k GVWR. I have towed many trailers/rvs and can tell you without doubt or hesitation that it's WAY to much pin weight for a 2500. When I had my 2500 I towed a 5er that was 2800 on the pin, that was about max. I moved to a dually when I bought my current RV, 3k on the pin and 15k+ trailer is dually land.

[dcg9381]

You'll need a slider.
In your particular case, loading the RV in back actually reduces pin weight. Can it be towed? Sure. Is it over gross at the pin, very likely.

[JRTJH]

According to the Chevy website, the max payload for a Silverado crewcab shortbox, 4x4, Duratec/Allison 2500 series is 2583. Keep in mind that any options will reduce that payload (it's listed as "MAX" payload for the model) so you'll probably find that any on the dealer's lots are very likely to have an even lower payload. The gas engine, regular cab, long box 4x2 has a maximum payload of 3534, so by the time you add a fifth wheel hitch and a passenger or two, you're way over your maximum payload, even with the best gas engine. Problem with that truck is that it is only rated to tow 14000 pounds. The Raptor 355TS empty weight with no optional equipment, propane, water or cargo is 14180.

Here's the website: http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-2500hd-heavy-duty-trucks/specs/trims.html

Starting with a trailer with a pin weight that's 1000 pounds over the payload is a recipe for disaster. You'll find, through trial and error, that your truck will "pull" that much weight, but it won't "handle" the weight nor will it provide for stopping capability in any emergency situation. Should you get into a crosswind situation, on a wet, rainy day with 18 wheelers passing you on a regular basis, you'll know why all the previous comments indicate the answer to your question is "no"......

[notanlines]

X2 what John said. You aren't even close to having enough truck. Keep in mind that loading a 1000 pound Harley in the garage does not help your tongue weight much. It doesn't work quite that way. If you put it on a CAT scale you would find that it is closer to reducing the tongue weight by 150 to 200 pounds at the most. One other thing, "I don't keep a lot of stuff in the RV." You will find all the old timers on this site with a smile on their face when they read your statement. You are on the very fringes of a 3500 single and would be much, much better off with a dually.

[vabow]

Thanks all. Will see what happens.

[chuckster57]

Will see what happens.
It sounds like you may have already bought the trailer.

[cardinal96ss]

And 2x what Notanlines said. I pulled a 36 ft 5er with a 2500 Ram diesel which was heavily sprung a couple of times and I felt good about how it towed. I quickly learned and had to admit however that I was not in control when braking or reacting to road and traffic situations. Moved up to a 3500 Duramax duelly. All is good now.:)

[JRTJH]

Thanks all. Will see what happens.

You're welcome. Thanks for asking the question before you attempt something as unsafe as towing the described rig on public highways. Remember, you're not only putting your own safety at risk, but as crowded as the highways are these days, you'd be putting the safety of those who share the road with "that rig" in jeopardy. Gone are the days of believing that the only person you affect with unwise choices is yourself !!!

If you've already bought "that rig", please consider a stronger tow vehicle and, if you haven't, now is the time to adjust your dream rig, either by buying a bigger truck or decreasing the trailer size.

Good Luck with whatever you choose

[rhagfo]

It sounds like you may have already bought the trailer.

X2,
That sait the "Dry" weight on that 5er is listed at 14,180# with a GVWR of 17,000#. Not carrying much, 1 Harley 1,000#, batteries, propane, some cloths you will be carrying 1,500# so about 15,680#.

Can the 2500 PULL it, sure , Can it CARRY it, not likely within stated limits. Well new wheels 19.5 tires, and away we go! :banghead:

[Ken / Claudia]

This is one of those posts, that just the basic things like wheels and tires on that truck will likely fail. Nothing like pulling 16,000 lbs and running tires until they rub the side walls on the road on bumps and blow out. Or just plain over heat and valve stems blow apart etc etc. all causing things that hurt people and cause law suits. Do not forgot the tickets the police at least in some states write for this type of combo. That truck may well be able to be modified costing in the thousands to work but, what your building is already built by GM. It is the 1 ton dually.

[roadglide]

I use a durmax towing my 311 impact fifer. I stopped at a cat scale fully loaded plus 86 gal of fuel, Harley,quad and 30 gallons of water. I was 400 over on the axels and 600 on the truck. I keep good tires and air bags. Your 2016 has 400 more pay load . The duramax in my opinion has the latest towing and braking systems and with out a dought the best transmission. The 18 inch tires is the best choice for towing. it's your call. my concern is the Chinese bom tires installed from the factory on the rv.

[gtsum2]

Way too much trailer for 3/4t. I have a 3500 srw with 4074lb payload and tow a Fuzion 345 chrome...3300 on the pin ready to camp. Drops to about 3100 on the pin with my rzr in the garage...fiver weight between 15500 and 16800 (rzr or not) and I am at my max limits of my truck...which has quite a bit more rated capacity than yours....and your raptor is heavier than my Fuzion.


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[Ken / Claudia]

Having good tires on the truck is great. But, list what the max. wt. rating is that is printed on the sidewall. And list what that tire/wheel scaled wt. was when loaded. You may be fine and within the working limits of the tires but, you may be over and alot over. Until you check it you will never know. I say this not as being a smarty pants just that I had tires not worthy in the past. Mine case was a 1996 f250, 7.3. with the RV not any rear end sway or rear sag. After several trips I scaled each axle and after reading the scale wt. and tire wt. rating I was 200 lb plus over on each rear tire. With that knowledge I could not and never would have drove the truck and RV with myself much less my family on board. I found tires that gave me 200 lb each of reserve wt. rating, together they could carry more than the axle wt. rating. Would those other tires blew out? who knows, I was not going to test it.

[Wildhorse]

Can I tow a 2016 Raptor 355TS with a 2015 Chevy 2500 Duramax short bed 4x4? I do not carry water or keep a lot of stuff in the rv and will have a full dresser Harley in the cargo area. Mostly short weekend trip. I know the weight is good just don't know what the pin weight may be. Thanks

This was my dilemma as well and I ended up buying a 2015 GMC 3500 Duramax SRW. It handles the pin weight with some to spare and the trailer at gross as well. I think my trailer comes in at 17,100 lbs. fully loaded which is at the top of what the truck is rated for as well. We bought a Raptor 355 so I can tell you that my truck squats with the trailer that you are looking at when hooked up. I'm going to be getting air bags to help with it. FWIW the truck while squatting isn't sitting on the overload springs so the sag isn't terrible. Hope this helps. Oh one more thing.... We have a Harley Road Glide Ultra and plan to take it, but we also have a Can Am SXS that weighs in at around 1,350lbs and having it loaded in the garage does nothing to keep the truck from sagging. FWIW this picture was taken prior to adding air bags to the truck.
http://s22.postimg.org/40mam0jtt/image.png

[Laredo291OH]

I'm looking to buy a Duramax this fall, have done alot of reading on this forum (very helpful btw) and other areas. Thought I knew all about payload and pin weight etc and have myself convinced to buy a 3500 SRW, but after reading GM info, I'm confused. Like the website that JRTJH pointed out, the 2500HD series has a payload of about 2500 lbs with the Duramax, the fiver we are interested in has an advertised pin of 1900, so I was sure I needed a 3500. Then I found the GM towing guide, they publish one every year and I figure it is the "Bible" of GM towing information. In the towing guide, they have the attached note that says " Fifth-wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 percent to 25 percent of trailer weight up to 3000 lbs maximum." I haven't found a 2500 HD yet with a payload of 3000 lbs. How can GM advertise the 3000 lb pin weight for a truck with only a 2500 lb payload? For the 3500 SRW it says 4000 lbs and for the 3500 DRW it says 5500 lbs. Anyone have an explanation?

Thanks

[bsmith0404]

I'm looking to buy a Duramax this fall, have done alot of reading on this forum (very helpful btw) and other areas. Thought I knew all about payload and pin weight etc and have myself convinced to buy a 3500 SRW, but after reading GM info, I'm confused. Like the website that JRTJH pointed out, the 2500HD series has a payload of about 2500 lbs with the Duramax, the fiver we are interested in has an advertised pin of 1900, so I was sure I needed a 3500. Then I found the GM towing guide, they publish one every year and I figure it is the "Bible" of GM towing information. In the towing guide, they have the attached note that says " Fifth-wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 percent to 25 percent of trailer weight up to 3000 lbs maximum." I haven't found a 2500 HD yet with a payload of 3000 lbs. How can GM advertise the 3000 lb pin weight for a truck with only a 2500 lb payload? For the 3500 SRW it says 4000 lbs and for the 3500 DRW it says 5500 lbs. Anyone have an explanation?

Thanks

Payload is the difference between GVWR (10,000) and actual truck weight. The trucks you have been looking at are around 7500 lbs, duramax crew cab, LT or LTZ, 4x4, 6.5" bed. Try looking at a single cab, W/T, 2x4, 8' bed. I'm pretty sure they will weigh in around 7,000 lbs or less, leaving a 3,000 lb payload.

[Laredo291OH]

I had thought of that, but the max payload for the reg. cab 2WD, 6.0L gas long bed is 2879 lbs, still 120 lbs less than what the towing guide says the pin weight can be for a 2500HD. I tried asking at a dealer, but around here the truck salesman are just about as bad as RV salesman, "don't worry, it will pull anything". :)

[BirchyBoy]

I had thought of that, but the max payload for the reg. cab 2WD, 6.0L gas long bed is 2879 lbs, still 120 lbs less than what the towing guide says the pin weight can be for a 2500HD. I tried asking at a dealer, but around here the truck salesman are just about as bad as RV salesman, "don't worry, it will pull anything". :)

Even more confusing is the Ram website that says payload is what can be carried in the bed. It doesn't mention the passengers at all. Remember that these are guides and are general in nature

[Javi]

I had thought of that, but the max payload for the reg. cab 2WD, 6.0L gas long bed is 2879 lbs, still 120 lbs less than what the towing guide says the pin weight can be for a 2500HD. I tried asking at a dealer, but around here the truck salesman are just about as bad as RV salesman, "don't worry, it will pull anything". :)

One thing that needs to be clear about manufacturer brochures is that they have very little correlation to reality. The published payload is for a stripped down truck before any accessories are added. Accessories are the packages like carpet and carpet pad, stereo, speakers, chrome dressings and badging, power windows, door locks, steps, bumpers, even hubcaps and mirrors.

It isn't unusual for folks trying to buy just enough truck to get a second case of sticker shock when they open the door and look at the yellow sticker... Whoa.... but the brochure said...... OMG :D

Go to the dealer and open the driver's door on several and look at the yellow sticker... Keep going till you find one which enough..

[JRTJH]

All the charts, from every manufacturer are "Single situation" calculated. They are intended to make their brand "best" and "one-up" the competition.

Examples. Payload is xxxx calculated with nothing in the truck, no passengers, no hitch, no optional equipment. Some even remove the spare tire, jack and lug wrench (since it's optional). Who tows that way.

GCWR is calculated with the "lightest weight, stripped" truck model. There is no cargo, no passengers and no optional equipment.

Max Trailer Weight is calculated the same way. Sure, with a truck weighing 7000 pounds, a 10K GVW, and a GCWR of 19000 pounds, the truck can tow a trailer weighing 12000 pounds with a pin weight of 2800 pounds, and have room to spare. BUT: add 3 passengers, a sliding (not the lightest hitch available) some cargo and a generator to the truck, get the weight up to 9000 pounds, and suddenly you can't add that trailer to the mix. Gone is the 2800 pound pin weight, and to stay below GCWR, since the truck now weighs 9000 pounds, the maximum trailer can only weigh 10000, and stay below the 19000 GCWR.....

Every chart I've looked at gives the "best case scenario" for every calculated value. You won't find a chart that lists the "real world" maximum trailer weight because the manufacturer NEVER takes into consideration anything that we would "regularly" add to the mix. Things like a tool kit, passengers, cooler, camping gear, extra fuel tank/tool box, heavier hitch, etc.... Not to mention, heaven forbid, we order the truck with a "luxury package", diesel engine, upgraded seats, leather, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps, wheel well liners, or "bigger wheels/tires" or even four wheel drive.... All of those things are NOT included in the "beat the competition's numbers" game that all the manufacturers play......

If anywhere, the term "BUYER BEWARE" applies to the yellow sticker. Many people talk about "sticker shock" when looking at the price of a new truck. If you really want a "disappointing surprise" look at the "real capabilities" of any new truck. None of the "samples on the dealer's lot" will come close to those charts, unless you want a "plain Jane, work truck in 2WD, single cab configuration"...........

[gtsum2]

I have to say when I ordered my ram 3500 srw, I went off their charts (with trim package and config I wanted) and my finished truck was only about 200lbs light on the payload (4074 vs 4300 I think).

On another note I have now found myself looking at the yellow sticker on any new truck or suv friends and neighbors have been buying...for a laugh that my wife's new Durango citadel (loaded with every option) had over 1200lbs payload vs my 2013 ram 1500 that had 1061!!!! (The REAL sticker shock as noted above!!)


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[Outback 325BH]

I have a new F250. Knowing that F250s and F350s (SRW) are virtually identical, and knowing the 10,000 GVWR of the F250s are a "paper" limit, I pay more attention to my rear GAWR and actual rear axle weight.

I would weight your rig on a CAT scale and see how your axle weights come out. Sounds like that trailer is real big and heavy.


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[BlueThunder34]

I'm not sure the F-250 and F-350's would be considered indentical, when I compared the two I found my payload was almost 1,000lbs more with the 1 ton vs the 3/4 ton similarly equipped. GVWR of 11,500

[chris199]

That toy hauler requires a dually 1 ton. No question.

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[Outback 325BH]

I'm not sure the F-250 and F-350's would be considered indentical, when I compared the two I found my payload was almost 1,000lbs more with the 1 ton vs the 3/4 ton similarly equipped. GVWR of 11,500



Depending on the years, they are virtually identical. This is especially true for the new ones. Yes, the "ratings" (door stickers) say differently, but if you look underneath the bed and compare actual parts, they are the same except for blocks under the springs.

My point is: when folks are trying to decide if their truck can handle a given trailer, there are other factors to consider other than the door stickers. One must know your truck though.

Different brands, models and years can play a role.

I'm not saying one is better than any other. Just trying to provide more info.

[1jeep]

Been there done that, last year we bought a carbon 327, had a f250 with air bags, it towed it just fine, but I knew I was over my GVWR. Also let me add that the F250 and F350 srw are the same minus the overload spring.

I am now in a f350 DRW and it does a great job of towing, so much better that even my wife noticed how much better it even rode.
My point if you haven't bought the truck buy a DRW for that trailer and don't worry about your weight anymore.

[gearhead]

Depending on the years, they are virtually identical. This is especially true for the new ones. Yes, the "ratings" (door stickers) say differently, but if you look underneath the bed and compare actual parts, they are the same except for blocks under the springs.

My point is: when folks are trying to decide if their truck can handle a given trailer, there are other factors to consider other than the door stickers. One must know your truck though.

Different brands, models and years can play a role.

I'm not saying one is better than any other. Just trying to provide more info.

Not that it is likely to happen, but what is your plan when you have wreck and a starving lawyer figures out you were overweight?
I didn't work for 40 years to give my life savings away.

[Model A Driver]

Something else to consider. Overloading a tow vehicle places you in jeopardy of legal action if an accident occurs due to it. The U-connect in Ram will alert you that you are exceeding vehicle capacity. The dealer will see the message before the unit sends you one. Insurance companies and law enforcement can/will subpoena these information. I am sure Ford and GM will do the same.

[BlueThunder34]

Like it or not we are legally limited to that "yellow sticker" on the door jamb. You can certainly do as you please and yes these trucks are capable of far more than their ratings but nothing you add to the truck (airbags, stronger tires, springs,etc) will change the sticker rating and what you can "legally" carry. I can tell you from personal experience in my many years in the fire service that when there is a major accident involving injuries and or high property value loss there is always an investigation done and I am willing to bet fingers are quick to be pointed at the operator by the insurance and manufacturers if there is any hint the blame can be passed. In the case of the OP original question, it definitely warrants a DRW TV.

[PerryB]

If you research the technical specs you'll find the 350 srw has a bigger axle shaft, bigger wheel bearing and a higher spline count than the 250 axle, hence the 7000 lb rating vs 6000.

[1jeep]

its a known fact that that is a misprint on fords pdf, the f250/350srw are the same axles. call a dealer and get the part numbers, they are the same.

Why it hasn't been changed by now baffles me.

[JRTJH]

Every 4 or 5 months we get into the discussion about 3/4 and 1 ton trucks being identical, can/can't tow the same, should/shouldn't be used to tow the same, will/won't get their owners into situations the same, legal/illegal operation, insurance will/won't pay, and the list goes on and on.

According to the Parts List located at http://www.tascaparts.com/ the part numbers for the rear axle shafts for the 2015 F250 are (right) BC3Z-4234-D and (left) BC3Z-4234-C. The axle housing is BC3Z-4010-D

Same parts on the 2015 F350 are (right) BC3Z-4234-D (left) BC3Z-4234-C and the axle housing is BC3Z-4010-D

The parts are identical in the single rear wheel rear axle in both the F250 and the F350.

Physically, there's very little difference between the trucks and the F250 can be ordered with optional spring packages that will make it even "stronger" than the "standard order" F350. Those spring packages are parts of the Snow Plow Package and the Camper Package. Essentially the only significant difference is the GVW and PAYLOAD stickers on the door.

I don't believe anyone here is claiming the "PHYSICAL" capacity or "PHYSICAL" limitations of the two trucks. It's the "LEGAL" capacity that is different.

As an example, if you're licensed to drive a rig "up to 25,000 pounds" on your current drivers license, You should be "PHYSICALLY CAPABLE" of operating an "IDENTICAL" truck and fifth wheel weighing 26,000 pounds. The "rub" comes only if you have an accident and the first request from the police officer on the scene is, "May I have your driver's license, insurance and registration, please?" At that point, the "PHYSICAL CAPABILITY" is no longer a consideration, but what the "PAPERWORK" says that's important.

If you're involved in an accident (that's why we all pay for insurance that we hope we'll never use) and some "shyster lawyer" can prove that your truck was overloaded, the "facts" of the "physical capability and similarity" won't really matter as the "illegal weight and overload" will become the "star witness" at your trial.

If you're willing to risk all you've worked for, then by all means, attempt to tow with a Yugo if you choose, but be ready for the likelihood of a significant court battle should anything happen. As others have stated, "I worked too long and too hard for my retirement to risk it all by using a truck that's "PHYSICALLY" the same, but I let the "PAPERWORK" bite me in the butt if anything happens. To me, the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk. Others may "opine differently"..................

[Model A Driver]

"If you're willing to risk all you've worked for, then by all means, attempt to tow with a Yugo "
JRTJH: I know you were making an exaggeration but it reminded me of a RV show we attended. We were in a 31ft TT with another prospective buyer. She asked the salesman if her Hyundai Sante Fe would pull it to which he replied.. YES. She saw my reaction and questioned me, I set her straight quick while getting hate looks at the same time. I still cannot believe his dishonesty.

[SmittysRV]

"If you're willing to risk all you've worked for, then by all means, attempt to tow with a Yugo "
JRTJH: I know you were making an exaggeration but it reminded me of a RV show we attended. We were in a 31ft TT with another prospective buyer. She asked the salesman if her Hyundai Sante Fe would pull it to which he replied.. YES. She saw my reaction and questioned me, I set her straight quick while getting hate looks at the same time. I still cannot believe his dishonesty.

Ya that's bad! Back when we picked up our Raptor 4014 I had a 2002 F350 LB SRW and the dealership would let me tow it off the lot:eek: Long story short I now have 2006 F550 and can tow the 5er anywhere with confidence!!:D

[Kojak]

Ya that's bad! Back when we picked up our Raptor 4014 I had a 2002 F350 LB SRW and the dealership would let me tow it off the lot:eek: Long story short I now have 2006 F550 and can tow the 5er anywhere with confidence!!:D

I know I'm not the only one that wants to see a picture of the truck!