Black Tank Rinse Premier 19fbpr

[1l243]

Winterizing today. Let me also say this trailer is brand new and we have not even used it yet. I hooked up air hose to black tank rinse (40psi) and I don't hear a thing. I added tornado tank cleaners to my last trailer and I could hear them buzzing around in there. Now, unlike this trailer my old trailer did not have a sealed underbelly and the floor was not insulated.

Should I be hearing the black tank rinse working? maybe I will hook up the water hose to it and see if that makes a difference?

[JRTJH]

Yes, you should hear air/water flowing through the system. It may be that you're not "listening" in the right place? If you open the bath vanity and locate the anti-siphon valve, some people have found that it is installed backwards, others have found that the rubber disc inside has "stuck" to the mount and won't let air pass. It should "rattle" when you shake it. That anti-siphon valve is the "weakest link" in the black tank flush system and is the part that causes the most issues.

When we use our black tank flush I hear a "vibratory water flow" going into the black tank. When I open the vanity and listen, I hear a very distinct flow of water, much louder than a "typical faucet" sound.

[1l243]

I connected a water hose to the black tank flush and the water does not flow. Being blocked somehow.

So the anti siphon valve in the vanity is for the black tank flush? Can you tell by looking at it the valve if it's correct?

[JRTJH]

Yes it is under the vanity, tucked way up top behind the sink and next to the faucet connections. If yours is installed like most, there are 4 half inch PEX pipes, one red, one blue (for the hot/cold water to the faucet) and two white. Since there's no way (under the sink) to tell which is the input to the anti-siphon valve and which is the output from the valve to the tank outlet, no you can't tell by "looking at it" if it's installed correctly. That's probably the reason so many are installed "backwards" at the factory.

If you connected a hose and didn't get water flow, turn the valve around. If you still don't have water flow, contact your dealership. Good Luck

[1l243]

On mine which is a 2016 19fbpr the siphon valve in in the closet in the bathroom. It sticks up about 18" through a hole in the bottom of the closet. Tomorrow I will switch the valve around and see what happens...

[jsmith948]

Just a thought - if you can get your head anywhere near the anti-siphon, look for an arrow embossed on the side of the valve indicating flow direction. Might save you the trouble of removing the valve? On ours, the vertical fitting was "in" and the horizontal fitting was "out". I say was because we no longer use the valve.

[1l243]

I pulled the valve I guess I am not getting how this thing is supposed to work. The flow arrow goes from the black tank rinse inlet to the black tank. That is way they have it plumbed. If I blow in the valve part (where my fingers are) in the direction of flow it shuts off by pushing up on a float. If I suck on it I get air. If I blow on the other end of the valve it's blocked?

I really can't tell if this valve is supposed to be a siphon valve or a back flow valve. It's only function is on the black tank rinse line. If its back flow valve shouldn't the direction of flow be from the black tank to the rinse outlet?

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_189500_0_f201272f52d7c52c7e223a778ba34e77.jpg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_189500_1_06bfea7638c3ea209358e04c0311d6e1.jpg

[cw3jason]

air or water in the dirction of the arrow forces the valve up and blocks the vent directing the water or air down to the black tank. when pressure is relieved the valve drops back down, opening the vent. this allows air into the system which prevents any syphon effect so you do not get black water being syphoned from the tank and out the connection.

I hope that makes sense

[slow]

Some of us have hard plumbed a couple of 90 degree elbows to replace the plastic anti-siphon and have added a brass anti-siphon to our dedicated water hose that we attach to the black flush inlet on the outside of the TT. Less likely to have a flood in the TT. Something to consider now that you have removed it.

Here is what I did at the location of the plastic anti-siphon valve: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/album.php?albumid=705

[bill-e]

I had the same thing happen, the manufacturer sent me a new one and told me how to fix the old one.

Remove the white spacer and the spring from the output end of the valve. Turn it upside down and see if a white ball falls out....I bet it wont, it's stuck in the valve.

If the ball is stuck, take the valve and bang that end real hard on a solid surface until the ball pops out.

Once it pops out, drop it back in, install the spring and spacer and reinstall the valve. It will now work.

Very bad design, I can see this happening all the time.

[1l243]

I think the ball was stuck in the valve. I pushed on it then I was able to blow air through it. Thought it was fixed put it back on and still restricted. So I by-passed the valve with a elbow and it still was blocked. So, I guess the line is kinked somewhere under the floor. I don't relish the idea them tearing apart the sealed underbelly so they can fix it but I guess that is the only choice.. Maybe next spring won't mess with it now..

[bill-e]

If you didn't get the ball to fall out then it's still blocked. When you blew on it did air actually come out the the output or out the bypass?

Anyway, another thing you can try is to remove the valve or elbow and blow into the hose end that goes to the tank. While troubleshooting the problem, I had to be a contortionist to do that but I was able to get a little flow through so I knew it was the valve.

And

A kink seems unlikely to me.

[1l243]

I by-passed the valve altogether and it was still blocked at least I did not hear anything and no fluid came out the black tank when the rinse water was on and dump valve open (trailer is new and never used so I can get away with that)

[JRTJH]

Are there two dump valves in the same general vicinity? On a large number of trailers, the dump valves are mismarked and the black tank is actually the gray. Is it possible that water is actually flowing into the tank, you can't hear it and when you pull the valve, you're pulling the gray tank, not the black tank. Try pulling the other valve and see if water flows from the tank.....

If that's not the situation and the trailer has not been used, rather than disassemble and try to repair it yourself. Let the dealer handle it if he's somewhere close.

[1l243]

I dropped the underbelly under the bathroom at the rear of the trailer and there it was the black tank rinse line was kinked. There is no way the pex tubing was going to make that 90 degree bend. I wonder if the factory routes all the lines like that. I cut out the kink and put in a Quick Connect elbow. All is good now..

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_189956_0_19bcd79be6fdaf8f7cd39d2c2c7245ee.jpg

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_189956_1_c1ab19d9ffcf8a8a08509b83c0674e27.jpg

[bill-e]

Wow, I would have never guessed that. How difficult was it to drop the underbelly?

[1l243]

I dropped several screws along the back just to get a peek with a flashlight. There is no extra insulation in there so I could see right away that the line was kinked. To get to the line I had to drop the gas line for the portable BBQ on the right side and remove a few more screws. I was then able to reach the kinked line. Was not bad.

[Charby]

I dropped several screws along the back just to get a peek with a flashlight. There is no extra insulation in there so I could see right away that the line was kinked. To get to the line I had to drop the gas line for the portable BBQ on the right side and remove a few more screws. I was then able to reach the kinked line. Was not bad.

Did you get any water flowing through line? I have used mine and found very little water coming out of outlet. I am afraid of using too much pressure on these lines. Starting to think it could be a little kinky!

[Pmedic4]

Did you get any water flowing through line? I have used mine and found very little water coming out of outlet. I am afraid of using too much pressure on these lines. Starting to think it could be a little kinky!

We usually get a good flow out of the BW Tank when using the flush connection. If we use the water pump to flush, I can't usually hear anything, but that is mostly because the pump is making noise, but see the flowing 'clean' water. If I connect it up to a regular hose, like some dumpstations or a full hookup site, I can actually hear the water spraying - and if I'm not mistaken/crazy, it sounds like the flush port actually rotates?? Obviously I can't see it, but it sounds like a whirring sound.

When time permits, I'll let the BW Flush a fairly long time, just careful not to be inconsiderate when at a dumpstation and there is someone waiting in line. It seems like no matter how long you let it run, there is always something that comes out if you have the patience - the BW tank flush I mean!:p

[1l243]

Did you get any water flowing through line? I have used mine and found very little water coming out of outlet. I am afraid of using too much pressure on these lines. Starting to think it could be a little kinky!

I think you could be right.

You can drop a couple of the screws at the rear of the trailer and pull down on the underbelly and look in there with a flashlight. Check out the photos I posted earlier. Look for the white hose...

[{tpc}]

When you dropped the underbelly, could you "see" the black tank and where the blank tank flusher was located? Did you have to bend the coroplast to get in there and work or was there room?

I don't have a specific issue with my black tank flush, but I do with the level sensors. I know things like a bit of tp can get caught up on them and give incorrect readings, but those readings are typically "full" where mine always shows empty. I've always wanted to get under there and see if I could locate the wiring for this to see if a wire was broken or shorted to something. It did work properly the first couple times out, since then we just "know" when its about full.

[1l243]

As soon as I dropped the Coroplast in the rear I could see the kinked tubing for the black tank rinse. The black tank is right there just above the Coroplast.

To access the area where I needed to get to the kinked pipe (right side facing rear of trailer) I had to lower the BBQ gas line that runs along the bottom of the frame and drop several screws for the underbelly on the right side to get enough room to get in there. It was still pretty tight.

I think you can get in there it's just a matter of how much of the underbelly you need to drop to access it..

[Charby]

As soon as I dropped the Coroplast in the rear I could see the kinked tubing for the black tank rinse. The black tank is right there just above the Coroplast.

To access the area where I needed to get to the kinked pipe (right side facing rear of trailer) I had to lower the BBQ gas line that runs along the bottom of the frame and drop several screws for the underbelly on the right side to get enough room to get in there. It was still pretty tight.

I think you can get in there it's just a matter of how much of the underbelly you need to drop to access it..

Thanks for the tips, and will keep in mind for the spring, as its too cold for my under belly:eek:

[{tpc}]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I will be able to look into it. Maybe I'll just take some time off and play around when the weather is better.

[mazboy123]

sensors always stop working, don't rely on them.

i have really never worried about cleaning the tank other then having it fill up and then dumping.

we are full timers so it takes about 2 weeks to fill the black water tank, then i just dump and run some water through it, never had a problem.

personally, i think 'cleaning' your black water tank is a waste of time if you use the toilet frequently.