Pay me now

[Yak]

Or pay me later. This gentleman didn't see the value in routine oil changes. Sludge through everything and the turbo was junk.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SAo-xRcKdIA/Viu4puUwE0I/AAAAAAAAY5c/y-oXNcPagZo/s800-Ic42/DSC_7036.JPG


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hNm8gnNrGTw/Viu4sXMdeaI/AAAAAAAAY5k/8UD7HNfkmN4/s800-Ic42/DSC_7037.JPG

[Steve S]

And the story is? ?

[therink]

Amen to that. That is main reason I didn't want a Powerstroke. Have to remove cab to access injectors and a other major engine work.

[chuckster57]

Amen to that. That is main reason I didn't want a Powerstroke. Have to remove cab to access injectors and a other major engine work.


Actually you don't. Your thinking heads on a 6.0L, it can be done with cab in place, just not as fast.

FWIW "Powerstroke" covers 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and 6.7 liter engines.

[therink]

Actually you don't. Your thinking heads on a 6.0L, it can be done with cab in place, just not as fast.

FWIW "Powerstroke" covers 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and 6.7 liter engines.

Thanks Chuckster57. I stand corrected.

[T3/T4 Hybrid]

What interval was he using on the oil change? :eek:

Miles on the engine?

[zuley]

I have a customer who specializes in Ford products. Numerous times I have walked into his shop and have seen the cabs lifted off various models of Ford pickups. Apparently one of the gas engines is notorius for breaking spark plugs when changing if allowed to go the recommended interval from Ford. I believe it is the plug on the drivers side rear against the fire wall that is impossible to get an easy out or a drill into if it breaks off. He'll do that plug first and if it snaps, off comes the cab. He tells me it is actually quite easy and has it down to an art less than three hours off and back on.

[TomHaycraft]

Always an education here.

I have been away from wrenching for too long. A shop down the highway from me, I periodically see the cabs lifted. This explains it. Thanks.

[bsmith0404]

I've seen cabs come off, it's not a difficult process. Unfortunately the labor rate is around 4-6 hours (can't remember exactly) so that's an added $500+ for labor.

[JRTJH]

I've seen cabs come off, it's not a difficult process. Unfortunately the labor rate is around 4-6 hours (can't remember exactly) so that's an added $500+ for labor.

Well, in the grand scheme of things, when you're talking a 10K engine/turbo rebuild, what's $500?

Sad part is, even with regular oil/filter changes, on "those year Fords" the question is: "Would it have made a significant difference?"

[bsmith0404]

It's $500 that would be better in my pocket than someone elses. And my understanding is they have to pull the cab for more than just the engine change. Read about one that had a fuel pump failure that pushed metal shavings through the entire fuel system. The cab had to be pulled to change out the fuel system.

[Ken / Claudia]

They do that to the f150s also. I talked about this story on here before. 2 different co-workers had 4.6? trion? v8 engine mid 90s and maybe 01 models. Both had a spark plug blow out of the engine while towing heavy trailers. The cabs were removed to do the work. Two other friends have the 6.0 and have had the cabs removed to fix/replace the heads etc.

[gearhead]

Son calls me yesterday about 6pm. Been raining all day. Hey dad what are you doing? Nuthin. Can you bring me paper clip? Uh sure. I get to his place with 2 paperclips. A buddy is there with a older,6.0? PSD in the barn with the hood up. They have grease up to their elbows. What are y'all doing? Well we pulled the turbo, replaced the high pressure injector oil pump, and now a terminal pin is burnt on a injector. We want to use the paper clip to "extend" the pin. We've done it before and it worked. Uh sure Ok, y'all have fun. Haven't heard the report yet. Oh to be 30 yrs old again.

[chuckster57]

Let me preface this by saying I have been wrenching "on the side" for 40+ yrs.

I have done spark plugs on the Triton engines, was it easy and fun? Not by a long shot. I've replaced spark plugs on the engines that have 2 piece plugs, ALL 8 came apart as I tried to remove. Took me a while to get them all, and I convinced the customer to put one piece plugs back in @ $20.00/ea.

Tech's have said that removing the cab, may allow them to beat the "book rate" and that's the reason they do it. I have yet to have any dealership tech tell me that cab removal is a step in a service manual. Getting ready for head gaskets on a 6.0 and the only issue is interference with the A/C box to get the head bolts on the P/S. It can be done with an extension and the formula for changing where you set the wrench.

[Yak]

Let me preface this by saying I have been wrenching "on the side" for 40+ yrs.

I have done spark plugs on the Triton engines, was it easy and fun? Not by a long shot. I've replaced spark plugs on the engines that have 2 piece plugs, ALL 8 came apart as I tried to remove. Took me a while to get them all, and I convinced the customer to put one piece plugs back in @ $20.00/ea.

Tech's have said that removing the cab, may allow them to beat the "book rate" and that's the reason they do it. I have yet to have any dealership tech tell me that cab removal is a step in a service manual. Getting ready for head gaskets on a 6.0 and the only issue is interference with the A/C box to get the head bolts on the P/S. It can be done with an extension and the formula for changing where you set the wrench.

I just looked it up, engine removal on the newer F250 diesel the manual gives you the option for cab on or cab off. On the earlier F150s we took the cab off to make it easier on our bodys, it's tough hanging over a fender for 8+ hours.
A job pays what a job pays, you can't add an extra $500 to pull the body, you pull the body to make it quicker/easier.

Chuckster, what are these "2 piece plugs"? They're all one piece when installed, they just break when removed. With the tool we now have it takes about 5 minutes to remove a broken plug.

[Javi]

The two piece plugs were an abomination which had a separate electrode; one that often broke and lodged in the motor. They were NOT like any plug before or after.

The fellow that thought up the two piece plug should be condemned to removing them 10 hours a day for eternity.

[gearhead]

The two piece plugs were an abomination which had a separate electrode; one that often broke and lodged in the motor. They were NOT like any plug before or after.

The fellow that thought up the two piece plug should be condemned to removing them 10 hours a day for eternity.

Good one!!
Is that the same guy that sold the brake discs to Ford that couldn't be resurfaced?
Same time period.

[Yak]

The two piece plugs were an abomination which had a separate electrode; one that often broke and lodged in the motor. They were NOT like any plug before or after.

The fellow that thought up the two piece plug should be condemned to removing them 10 hours a day for eternity.

On what vehicle??

[chuckster57]

The 2 piece plugs were used in certain years of Ford trucks with gas engine. The plug was "pressed" into a metal cup that formed the ground for the center electrode. Problem was when you started to take the plug out, the upper portion separated from the cup that stuck in the head from carbon buildup. I have two different sets of removers.

[vampress_me]

A job pays what a job pays, you can't add an extra $500 to pull the body, you pull the body to make it quicker/easier.

I wish all service dept. people had your integrity. I've come across a few over the years that will quote whichever is the higher price in book if there's 2 ways to do something and then do it the easier/ cheaper way to make a few hundred bucks.

[chuckster57]

There is only one "book rate" for any service job. If the shop your working in pays "flat rate", then you do whatever it takes to complete the task in the allotted time. Go over and the labor is out of the techs pocket.

I am in a flat rate shop now. Work "pays" X hours, I finish under and I get the full pay. Finish over and the difference is minimum wage.

[bsmith0404]

A job pays what a job pays, you can't add an extra $500 to pull the body, you pull the body to make it quicker/easier.

I know, I turned wrenches for a few years as well. My point was that a job that requires 4-5 hours of labor to remove a cab just to get to the engine vs a job that is 4 hour less labor by being able to do the work without removing the cab is money that is better in my pocket. I've also been on the side where the job pays 30 minutes per the book and you spend half of that time just trying to find the part that is buried under a myriad of "stuff".

[bsmith0404]

There is only one "book rate" for any service job. If the shop your working in pays "flat rate", then you do whatever it takes to complete the task in the allotted time. Go over and the labor is out of the techs pocket.

I am in a flat rate shop now. Work "pays" X hours, I finish under and I get the full pay. Finish over and the difference is minimum wage.

The shop I worked in was flat rate as well. I loved alignments and front CV/half shafts, hated anything that involved exhaust.

[Yak]

The 2 piece plugs were used in certain years of Ford trucks with gas engine. The plug was "pressed" into a metal cup that formed the ground for the center electrode. Problem was when you started to take the plug out, the upper portion separated from the cup that stuck in the head from carbon buildup. I have two different sets of removers.


Ok, I see what you are saying, a little misunderstanding as I have been a Ford tech since 82. 3 piece if you count the insulator. The trick to getting these plugs out is an impact gun, it works with little breakage.

[chuckster57]

My trick is to avoid them LOL

[Yak]

I know, I turned wrenches for a few years as well. My point was that a job that requires 4-5 hours of labor to remove a cab just to get to the engine vs a job that is 4 hour less labor by being able to do the work without removing the cab is money that is better in my pocket. I've also been on the side where the job pays 30 minutes per the book and you spend half of that time just trying to find the part that is buried under a myriad of "stuff".
If it's required, it's coming off, it's part of the job.

As for the 30 minute job, yes, you might lose on the first time, but the second time, you break even, third time you're making money

[Pmedic4]

If it's required, it's coming off, it's part of the job.

As for the 30 minute job, yes, you might lose on the first time, but the second time, you break even, third time you're making money

Amazing all the little tricks you learn by doing the same job 3 or 4 times. When in high school had to replace the Chevy Powerglide transmission in my car. Since they used the same transmission for many years, like from 1955 to 1973?, you could find a used one at a junk yard for about $35. Had to change mine twice, and ended up changing out about 5 more for friends, making about $100 for 2 hours of work. Good pay back then for a high school kid.

[Alpine]

What interval was he using on the oil change? :eek:

Miles on the engine?

I was curious as well... did not see the answer to the question!

[SAABDOCTOR]

CHANGE YOUR OIL OFTEN AND USE GOOD QUALITY OIL! Been using synthetic oil and i change it every 5k. in my Dodge, Mercedes blue tec diesel and my two Saabs no sludge! my 03 Saab made contact with a muffler sliding along I95 at 80mph! blew the heck out of the pan!. I had a good chance to see what was going on after 150k on the motor. all thebearings were in great shape no sludge at the pick up tube and the cooling jets in the conecting rods that are prone to plugging up on a Saab were clean! So yes you can pay me now or.....:banghead:

[1jeep]

I was curious as well... did not see the answer to the question!

looking at the badging it appears to be an 08-10 with the 6.4, I would hope at least 150k miles.

it really does suck that some people do minimal if any service on their vehicle, because when you buy used it is a guessing game which one your getting.

[Desert185]

Just changed the water pump on my Cummins. It took longer to flush the system than it did to change the pump, and three gallons of coolant was more expensive than the simple pump. I love simple.

Glad it wasn't a PS or a Duramax. Since I do my own work (if I can), I'm not into removing the cab. 👎

[T3/T4 Hybrid]

looking at the badging it appears to be an 08-10 with the 6.4, I would hope at least 150k miles.

it really does suck that some people do minimal if any service on their vehicle, because when you buy used it is a guessing game which one your getting.


I don't like the guessing game when it comes to my trucks. It will cost more $$$ with a new truck but I know what I start with and what I have through the time of my ownership.