Opinions about going from 7000 to 8000 leaf springs.

[roybaker]

Need advice on leaf springs. I have a 2014 3155 Montana 5er with approx 5000 towing miles of which approximately 3500 miles has been on this trip. Several weeks ago while on interstate hwy a motorist pulled up beside me and informed me of a broken leaf spring. Towing felt no different, pulled over and yeah, I had a broken spring on the passenger side front axle of the 5er, has 7000lb axles. Didn't weigh the 5er but was not close to max tow weight of 15,500lbs. I have no idea when, how or why spring broke.
I did notice several of the leafs had various levels of rust except the two longest leafs. broken which were shiny. Never hit a pot hole or drop off pavement. I have noticed when backing or turning sharp the wheels will drag especially the front axle wheel. Could this be the problem and if it is how do you prevent it in tight situations?

[Desert185]

Where on the spring did the break occur?

[bdaniel]

I would put the largest springs under it that would fit. You will most likely find that the springs are made in China. You will also find the springs have a weight rating that just exactly matches the axle rating. No margin for safety. Here are photos of my spring problems and the details are in the link.

//bobbystuff.com/RV/images/BrokenSpring003.jpg[/IMG]
http://bobbystuff.com/RV/images/BrokenSpring001.jpg

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/index.php?blog=76



And if you have more than 10,000 miles on the unit and you have the traditional spring shackles, you are close to having this problem:

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/images/spring_shackles_again_4.jpg

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/index.php?blog=75

Bobby

[dcg9381]

Roy, I've been thinking about doing this too. Rust on the springs (in my case) seems to be directly related to when it was delivered to the dealer. Mine was delivered in the winter and I assume some salt was picked up on the road and wasn't ever cleaned...

My main concern was that I had very little allowable "up" flex in the suspension, even unloaded with nothing in the garage. As near as I can tell, as long as the leaf spring isn't "flat" or inverted, nothing is wrong - per manufacturer. The issue with moving to an 8k leaf spring (4k each) is that you're beyond axle capacity and I assume that the ride is harsher. I mean to talk to a spring shop one of these days about a slight re-arch (lift) and spring quality, but it'll be a while before I can get to it.

My springs are 6 or 7 leaf, I think...

[bsmith0404]

The issue with moving to an 8k leaf spring (4k each) is that you're beyond axle capacity and I assume that the ride is harsher.

This is the main concern. Although it is not exactly the same, ever run a utility trailer empty or with a small load, it bounces all over the place because the springs are not working. Of course, a loaded RV with a lot of weight on the wheels will not bounce as bad, it may still be a little harsher than the softer 7k springs. As long as the springs are working and not bottoming out, you won't gain anything. If the springs are straight, as mentioned by the manufacturer, or bottoming out, then an upgrade to 8k or at least new 7k springs are required.

Springs break for various reasons, they are steel, things happen, stuff breaks. I've had trailers overloaded and the springs straightened out and never went back, but didn't break. I've also had springs break on trailers not even loaded to max. Classify it as SH.

[roybaker]

Where on the spring did the break occur?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/b358c0a5672901691ec31136cffee26c.jpg

Having problem with posting picture.

[roybaker]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/47ed97aa5cf0e8e6e07c95fb7a2dba02.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/62393b08dfe0da2373db360947e97ffb.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/d4de18447c8f75d16397b46c3662ccb9.jpg

I have pictures in my gallery of the broken springs before being removed. The above pictures I just took. The lighting is poor. I believe the three original spring are as rust pitted and looks as bad as the broken one. I have spoken to and sent email pictures to keystone about 3 weeks ago called last week and haven't received a call back yet. Sent same email to Lippert yesterday.

[roybaker]

This is the main concern. Although it is not exactly the same, ever run a utility trailer empty or with a small load, it bounces all over the place because the springs are not working. Of course, a loaded RV with a lot of weight on the wheels will not bounce as bad, it may still be a little harsher than the softer 7k springs. As long as the springs are working and not bottoming out, you won't gain anything. If the springs are straight, as mentioned by the manufacturer, or bottoming out, then an upgrade to 8k or at least new 7k springs are required.

Springs break for various reasons, they are steel, things happen, stuff breaks. I've had trailers overloaded and the springs straightened out and never went back, but didn't break. I've also had springs break on trailers not even loaded to max. Classify it as SH.
Thank you for your reply. I have never towed any trailer large or small that pulls as easily as this 5er. Also, even with a broken spring it towed fine. Road side service just put a 4x4 block on top of the broken spring without tying it to the axle. It was then towed to the shop without any problem. This happened on a Saturday. Sunday morning the new spring was located and attached to the axle. There was no sign of any rubbing in the wheel well. I am now carrying a short piece of 4x4. Lippert did tell me the warranty on the spring expires same time as the 5er, one year. My warranty expired couple weeks prior. Also when talking to Lippert representative day of problem he without committing indicated they would make it right.

[B-O-B'03]

That rear spring sure looks a lot flatter, compared to the replacement?

-Brian

[roybaker]

You're right, It does I'm sending the picture to lippert and keystone

[roybaker]

I would put the largest springs under it that would fit. You will most likely find that the springs are made in China. You will also find the springs have a weight rating that just exactly matches the axle rating. No margin for safety. Here are photos of my spring problems and the details are in the link.

//bobbystuff.com/RV/images/BrokenSpring003.jpg[/IMG]
http://bobbystuff.com/RV/images/BrokenSpring001.jpg

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/index.php?blog=76



And if you have more than 10,000 miles on the unit and you have the traditional spring shackles, you are close to having this problem:

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/images/spring_shackles_again_4.jpg

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/index.php?blog=75

Bobby
I think you've sold me on the heavier spring. On yours, how much did it raise the height on your cougar, if any.

[roybaker]

Roy, I've been thinking about doing this too. Rust on the springs (in my case) seems to be directly related to when it was delivered to the dealer. Mine was delivered in the winter and I assume some salt was picked up on the road and wasn't ever cleaned...

My main concern was that I had very little allowable "up" flex in the suspension, even unloaded with nothing in the garage. As near as I can tell, as long as the leaf spring isn't "flat" or inverted, nothing is wrong - per manufacturer. The issue with moving to an 8k leaf spring (4k each) is that you're beyond axle capacity and I assume that the ride is harsher. I mean to talk to a spring shop one of these days about a slight re-arch (lift) and spring quality, but it'll be a while before I can get to it.

My springs are 6 or 7 leaf, I think...
dcg, after looking at b Daniels pictures and reading your post, I think we pretty much have a similar problem. Your spring hasn't broke yet. I'm going to crawl under my 5er tomorrow and look for cracks. Before my spring problem I was keeping a close on eye on my tires, now I know.

[bdaniel]

I think you've sold me on the heavier spring. On yours, how much did it raise the height on your cougar, if any.

The new spring pack had one extra leaf. The leaves appear to be maybe 3/8 inch so that is no big deal. But the old springs had probably sagged a little also. This was several years ago and I no longer have the Wildcat but I don't remember any noticeable height difference.

I need to make a few tweaks but here is a blog posting I am working on about my electric over hydraulic disc brake conversion. I also upgraded my springs at the same time. I have photos and some interesting info about 5200 and 6000 lb axles.

http://bobbystuff.com/RV/index.php?blog=228

Bobby

[gearhead]

If I just had some money burning a hole in my pocket I would convert to torsion suspension and Vault spindles.
http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6149609/f/product_flyers/Torflex_11-06.pdf
http://www.ufpnet.com/Portals/0/PDFs/VAULT%20Brochure.pdf