Tow Vehicle

[Timcharlie]

Hey guys,
My wife and I own a 2009 Nissan Titan SE that we are using to tow a 2016 Keystone Cougar 32FBS Travel Trailer. After asking questions and garnering advice from this site, I am thinking we need to upgrade to a larger vehicle. I am thinking a 3/4 ton.

I know my question will be subjective, but what is the general consensus on truck brands to handle this towing.

The dry weight of the trailer is listed at 7440 Lbs with a tongue weight of 965 Lbs.

Thanks all for any input and advice.

Tim and Charlie

[notanlines]

Tim/Charlie, for all practical purposes you have four choices. Ford, GMC, Chevy, and Dodge. Comparably equipped, Ford is the highest in price by about $600-800 over the lowest priced which is Dodge. Truth be known, I'll bet they all even out. I'd look at who has the best resale in your area and what options sell the best versus what you want and how long you plan on keeping it. We are a Ford family, but I probably would have bought a Dodge this time around if the mirrors didn't look like something out of a 6th grader's sketch pad. :eek: We like 'em all, but buy what you and Momma actually like.

[chuckster57]

Okay, now you've opened a can... no a barrel of worms :eek:

Everybody has their brand and all others are junk, so I will keep my response very generic.

Gas vs. Diesel: diesel engines simply out pull gas engines when a trailer is hooked on. Diesel engines can have higher maintenance costs, but if its not your daily driver then its a wash IMO.

Bells and whistles: each brand has their own share. Having towed since '89 I can tell you I wouldn't do without cruise and automatic transmission.

3/4 ton vs. 1 ton: as a rule the cost to upgrade from a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton is minimal, and the payload difference can be quite a bit depending on configuration.

SRW vs DRW: dual rear wheels are the shiznizzle when it comes to towing, but only comes in the 1 ton variety. If you have any inkling of upgrading your trailer in the future, I would get a dually and be done with it. I can park my crew cab, long bed dually in most any parking lot.

I probably left some things out, and others will add to this, but I will say this in closing. I started with a 1/2 ton and 8' camper, then a 3/4 ton with a 21' fifth wheel, followed by a 27' and then a 35' fiver. Donated the 3/4 ton when I bought my dually, and wouldn't think of using anything else, even though I downsized to a 30' fiver that is 3000 pounds lighter.

[kfxgreenie]

http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/2016-titan/

My personal opinion is its ugly but depending on the price it might be right up your alley. Cummins, Aisin, from specs it will pack a pretty good punch for a supposedly 1/2-3/4 hybrid.

[bsmith0404]

The front fender lines on the 2016 Nissan remind me of the mouth lines of a humpback whale.

If you spend much time reviewing the big three (I consider Chevy and GMC the same, just a little different look on fender lines) you will quickly find that all have things people love and some things they would change. Personally, I would never own a Dodge because of bad personal experience in the past, but you could quickly find a Dodge owner say the same about a Chevy.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say I'm keeping this truck for a long time, then a year later are driving a new one, I've done it myself. Because of that, I look at resale value. You will pay more for a diesel, but will love the experience of towing with one. You will also get your money back on resale value (they hold value like a Harley). Spend some time looking at NADA or KBB and you will quickly see that a diesel with 80k miles is still worth 80% of what the new sticker price was. When I bought my 2500 I got a very good deal by getting it close to the end of the year and making some sacrifices (color, trim) by buying what was available on the lot. 2 yrs and 42k miles later I traded it in on my 3500 and got the same price I paid for it, and no I didn't pay a bunch extra on the 3500, actually bought it for 6k below book retail.

We have a 15k lb 5th wheel so I will never own anything other than a 3500 dually, but I was very happy with my 2500 when we had smaller RVs. I could sit here and give you 100 reasons to buy GM over the other two and the next person to respond could give you 100 more to buy Dodge or Ford. Right now in the diesel world Dodge and Ford are both claiming best in class 5th wheel towing with numbers near or over 30k lbs, GM has best in class conventional towing (bumper pull), I think the numbers are around 15k (GM 5th wheel is somewhere around 24k)....bottom line, they will all tow a lot more than your camper weighs so I wouldn't get too spun up on those numbers. Pay more attention to payload, how much crap you can load besides your family, that is usually where people run into problems. Shop around, test drive them and in the end you will decide for yourself which bells and whistles you like best and which is best for you.

[kfxgreenie]

The front fender lines on the 2016 Nissan remind me of the mouth lines of a humpback whale.


Yeah, the nose of the truck "looks" as if it sits to far in front of the axle or something. But hey on the positive side of things at least they realized tires are round and made the wheel wells round....:D

[SteveC7010]

They're bragging about pulling 5 tons. IMHO, that's still just a half ton. Most properly equipped 3/4's pull up in the 16K+ range. Ford F150's are rated to pull up to 11,600#. I don't see any magic here, but it does look like Nissan is finally and fully matching the big 3 1/2 ton products.

[bsmith0404]

They are bragging about 5 tons on a gooseneck. That makes me question the strength of the frame for conventional towing. I didn't spend a lot of time going through the specs, but my guess is that the conventional tow ratings will be significantly lower than 10k, maybe more in the 7k area. This is only a 1/2 ton truck so 10k towing isn't bad, but a gooseneck shouldn't be required to do it especially with a 5.0 Cummins diesel.

[kfxgreenie]

They're bragging about pulling 5 tons. IMHO, that's still just a half ton. Most properly equipped 3/4's pull up in the 16K+ range. Ford F150's are rated to pull up to 11,600#. I don't see any magic here, but it does look like Nissan is finally and fully matching the big 3 1/2 ton products.

ONCE final #'s are released, i bet it has a much larger tow rating, its all speculation until then but look at the components used to build it. I bet its close to a 3/4 ton truck but with a "little" 5.0 twin turbo diesel engine that could potentially get great fuel mileage. That's where it would fit right in between a half ton and a 3/4 ton. As we all know the over 5 ton they were bragging about pulling was a gooseneck which at 20% weight of the total pull would be 2000 lbs. At 2000 lbs its only 200 lbs less than the payload capacity of the 2014 CTD ram 2500 i own. I'm not saying its everything since sliced bread but for a TT puller or a light fifth wheel it just might be in that sweet spot of capable and good mileage to boot.

[Timcharlie]

Hey Guys,
Thanks guys for all the replies so far. Now I am thinking about a possible trade in of my 2009 Titan for a 2016 depending on trade in value and cost of the '16. But barring a trade in that way, if we go used is there any model years to avoid?

Tim

[chuckster57]

General consensus is stay away from Ford diesel with the 6.0 engine, unless it's had head gaskets replaced and head studs instead of bolts.

Chevy duramax engines had injector issues until '04 when they moved them. Dodge has had transmission issues so I wouldn't buy one unless it had the Aisin transmission.

This is based on 40+ yrs of wrenching "on the side".

[bsmith0404]

General consensus is stay away from Ford diesel with the 6.0 engine, unless it's had head gaskets replaced and head studs instead of bolts.

Chevy duramax engines had injector issues until '04 when they moved them. Dodge has had transmission issues so I wouldn't buy one unless it had the Aisin transmission.

This is based on 40+ yrs of wrenching "on the side".

x2 on this with one exception, I wouldn't buy a 6.0 Ford even if it had been worked over. I've talked to people who have done all of the upgrades, spent thousands on them and still had problems.

[chuckster57]

I have customers with STOCK 6.0's and no issues. They are the exception, but I wouldn't buy a used one unless it was real cheap, knowing I could do the preventative fixes for just the cost of parts.

[Bushman512000]

6.0 is not a good choice. all the new Dodges ,Ford ,and GM lines are good for Trailer use the Eye candy is real nice. They have come a long way I am a Dodge Guy have a 2015 CTD Outdoorsman 4x4 in the pole barn just remember what You want to use it for I do not have a 1ton I have a 3/4 sw I have a 27foot trailer and more truck than needed but better more than not wanting more. I drive about 65mph or so and get the best MPG and not have tires blow out or hope to not have any troubles at all I like a truck set up with a tow package most are to-day but some are not buyer beware some sales people will sell any thing You have the choice so You also have to know what You want the deals are there now for the buyer as the 2016s are dropping the price of the 2015s with that said good luck...Bushman:D

[Pmedic4]

There are a great deal of love/hate about our trucks and towing capacities, but honestly, buy what you like. The important part is to check out what you are buying regarding it's capacity. On my last purchase several months ago, I was pleased they provided a detailed page listing the capabilities. Perhaps it was because it's a 2500, and it's required, but there is none of the questions about looking at some webpage and guesstimating where your truck fits in the charts.

As usual, if you don't start out pleased with your TV, you'll never be happy.

[Timcharlie]

Thanks for all the input on choices. We are going to have to visit some dealerships and see what happens. But I think we do need to upgrade. We'll see if it will be a vehicle mainly for towing or a vehicle for daily use and towing.

[bsmith0404]

Personal opinion, there isn't a difference. My truck is daily use, personal towing, and business towing. My 2500 was my daily driver to and from work, my wife has a Camaro, that's not really a daily driver for a family of 5. Of course, now that my son has a license, we bought him a Jeep Grand Cherokee so we tend to use it whenever we need to stuff all 5 in a vehicle.

[chuckster57]

Personal opinion, there isn't a difference.


And that's where we differ. I drive a Honda 4dr accord and the wife drives a Mariner. The truck sits and looks pretty about 90% of the time. I used it two weeks ago to move my tool box, put $20.00 of fuel in it. First time I've added fuel in 6 months. I will use it to move a pallet of pellets for winter heat, but other than that it just hauls the fiver.

To give you an idea of its use, bought in '08 with 52,XXX miles. Currently 73,XXX.

[bsmith0404]

About the same as the wife's Camaro, bought new in 2010 and just turned 21k last week. Don't use it to hall a pallet of pellets for winter heat though :)

[Timcharlie]

The next question: Gas or Diesel - pros and cons. I know it is said that Diesel has more power for towing so I am curious what opinions are. My son in law is a mechanic and he works on gas engines and not diesel. So that will weigh on my decision as well.

Tim

[bsmith0404]

I've owned both and will never own a gas again. The diesel is great for towing, fuel mileage, longevity, resale......some worry about maintenance costs, but for the most part, they are pretty maintenance friendly and reliable. The only problem I've had with any of mine have been sensors. Had the #2 NoX sensor go bad (common on the 2011 duramax, but not newer versions), covered by warranty. Had a EGT sensor go bad at 123k, $60 part. They take 10 qts of oil, but a lot of the newer gas trucks take 6-8 qts so not a major difference there either. Then a $25 fuel filter about every 20k miles.

Other things you gain with a diesel, exhaust brake and better transmission. The exhaust brake is amazing especially when you get into the mountains of hills with 10k lbs pushing you. I can set the cruise and the never touch the brake pedal. The transmissions offered with diesels, especially the Allison in the GMs is a beast. Plan on putting on a half million miles or more before you rebuild, that's if you do a lot of towing.

[Timcharlie]

Brent, thanks for the feedback. One of my concerns is availability of diesel at local stations to me. I will be doing research for sure.

On a side note, i see from your sig line you are retired from the Air Force. Thank you for your service. My son in law is i the early stages of his career with the Air Force. He and my daughter are stationed at Holloman AFB in New Mexico.

[bsmith0404]

I live in Las Cruces, was stationed at Holloman, still have friends out there. Earlier in my career I never wanted to be stationed in NM, then ended up here and loved it. Cloudcroft is a great area with good deer, elk, and turkey hunting. Actually a lot more to do in this state than people realize. If he ever needs anything just shoot me a PM.

As for diesel, it's becoming so common now that most stations have at least 1-2 pumps. Does get irritating when a car pulls up to the 1 pump that shares diesel when there are 15 other open pumps available.

[Desert185]

Go with diesel for towing for all the reasons Brent outlined.

As far as maintenance, I have over 300,000 miles on two Cummins engines. Besides valve adjustments on the 12 valve (not required on the 24 valve) I have only done an alternator, one starter, a MAP sensor, serpentine belt, throttle position sensor, brakes, a lift pump and an auto transmission at 98,000 miles on warranty. The 24 valve has a bulletproof, 6-speed manual, so that problem was eliminated.

There are really no more maintenance issues with a diesel in my experience. I do my own work, so that does help with the expense and the Cummins is comparatively easy to work on.

[roybaker]

Go with diesel for towing for all the reasons Brent outlined.

As far as maintenance, I have over 300,000 miles on two Cummins engines. Besides valve adjustments on the 12 valve (not required on the 24 valve) I have only done an alternator, one starter, a MAP sensor, serpentine belt, throttle position sensor, brakes, a lift pump and an auto transmission at 98,000 miles on warranty. The 24 valve has a bulletproof, 6-speed manual, so that problem was eliminated.

There are really no more maintenance issues with a diesel in my experience. I do my own work, so that does help with the expense and the Cummins is comparatively easy to work on.
One of the benefits not mentioned about the diesel is the ability to have an auxiliary fuel tank in the bed. Huge benefit, we just completed a trip starting in Kansas to the Upper Penensula MI. Towing our 3155 Montana 5er with a 2014 Ram 3500 dually with a 75 gallon transfer flow bed tank. Started the trip with stock and bed tank full, 107 gallons. Never stopped for fuel, arrived at the UP 1000 miles late set up camp. Checked my gas app to find the most reasonably priced fuel and without worrying about 13.5 height of 5er or congested pumps, filled both tanks with approx 80 gallons of fuel. On our return trip I topped off my tanks several times after parking the 5er and picking and choosing fuel spots. Diesel is much safer than gas. Good luck on your hunt. Go big, go diesel.
Hey Guys,
Thanks guys for all the replies so far. Now I am thinking about a possible trade in of my 2009 Titan for a 2016 depending on trade in value and cost of the '16. But barring a trade in that way, if we go used is there any model years to avoid?

Tim

There are a great deal of love/hate about our trucks and towing capacities, but honestly, buy what you like. The important part is to check out what you are buying regarding it's capacity. On my last purchase several months ago, I was pleased they provided a detailed page listing the capabilities. Perhaps it was because it's a 2500, and it's required, but there is none of the questions about looking at some webpage and guesstimating where your truck fits in the charts.

As usual, if you don't start out pleased with your TV, you'll never be happy.

[chuckster57]

And diesel fuel doesn't go bad nearly as fast as gasoline.

[Pmedic4]

And diesel fuel doesn't go bad nearly as fast as gasoline.

I was laughing about this comment - With most of our trucks, the way they gulp fuel, even a great diesel at 18 MPG, fuel getting old doesn't seem to be a big concern.

This somewhat makes sense though for someone who has a Motorhome, that may sit for 4-5 months out of the year over the winter.

[bsmith0404]

Chuckster drives his TV about as often as a motorhome so it makes sense for him.

I also love the aux tank, but I put on 5k miles a week when I'm on the road. The ability to get fuel where it's cheap is a huge benefit for me. I've made several trips into CA, but have never bought fuel there! I use pilot and flying J. I have to use the truck pumps when transporting otherwise I don't get my company discount, but when I'm on the road with my personal RV I use the RV pumps with the Camping World / Good Sam discount.

[LittleJoe]

. Besides valve adjustments on the 12 valve (not required on the 24 valve)

This is not correct. Valve adjustments are still necessary but interval is 150000 miles. They are not hydraulic adjusters

[Big Boy w/ Big Toys]

I was laughing about this comment - With most of our trucks, the way they gulp fuel, even a great diesel at 18 MPG, fuel getting old doesn't seem to be a big concern.

This somewhat makes sense though for someone who has a Motorhome, that may sit for 4-5 months out of the year over the winter.

The issue there is if you park it with number #2 diesel and it is cold out you may have gelling problems. Best to take it out and fill with #1 if you are going to be hitting any cold weather. I see it all the time here in Alaska. Some of our local military deploy early summer and come back middle of winter to a diesel truck with issues. Or worse a spouse who takes it out for a spin before they get home to find it all gelled up.