Rubber roof de-laminating on 2012 fuzion

[James262]

I was on the roof of my 2012 Fuzion this weekend hanging cd's from the awning to keep the birds away and found some pleats or ripples in the rubber roof material. There is also a rip next to the front a/c unit caused(I suspect)by the material rubbing on the units side flashing. The first 12 or so feet of the roof appears to have de-laminated and is flapping in the wind as I drive down the road. I see I am not the only one to have been lucky enough to have this issue with a newer TH, I am in contact with the dealer and Keystone awaiting a reply. Has anyone had this repaired by Keystone or did you foot the bill. Is the warranty only a year on the roof? Really? 80G's for a Rig and only a year on the Roof?

[x96mnn]

Don't hold me to this, but I thought the roof was cover for 10 to 12 years but I am not sure to what extent.

[TandE]

Don't hold me to this, but I thought the roof was cover for 10 to 12 years but I am not sure to what extent.

Pretty sure that it is only for the failure of the roof itself like breaking down, not tears or improper maintenance or installed wrong

[Festus2]

James262 -
I don't think the rubber roof is "delaminating" but rather what you see is a result of the rubber membrane coming loose from the wooden substructure - plywood or similar sheeting. This may be a result of the rubber not being glued down properly and has formed bubbles or ripples where air spaces exist.

A small amount of bubbling may not be cause for concern and it is more noticeable in hot weather when the roof heats up, and the air inside the bubbles expands. Large areas of bubbling and rippling should be checked out and repaired - re glued.

I'd take pictures of the affected areas and take them in to your dealership or better yet, take your rig in and have them examine the roof. The dealership where you purchased your RV from is the place to start any claims.

Check out the roof warranty as it probably does not cover bubbling but rather defects in the actual membrane itself.

It's hard to say what caused the rip/tear by the A/C but it can be repaired by using Eternabond.

Get back to us with the results of your visit to the dealership to get this problem solved.

[dcg9381]

James:
Yea, definitely not good.
How often are you up on the roof for inspection and re-seal?

[sw342]

Is the warranty only a year on the roof? Really? 80G's for a Rig and only a year on the Roof?

As far as Keystone is concerned as soon as warranty is done they would like to wash their hands of you. You had better hope you have a good dealer to stand behind you, because more times than not if you try to get Keystone to do anything for you on your own, you will get shut down. You need the advocacy of a dealer who has more pulling power than yourself. Take a look at the fading cap thread on here and see how they try and skirt any responsibility and put it all on the owner. The majority of the people who had had the caps repainted have had dealers do the fighting for them.

If I were you I would not be posting on a forum what you have or have not done to your roof. That is between you, your dealer, and Keystone. You better have your story straight and better have proof and or maintenance records showing the care of the roof that Thor/Keystone laid out in the owners manual or they will kick you to the curb so fast it will make your head spin.

[Festus2]

You had better hope you have a good dealer to stand behind you, because more times than not if you try to get Keystone to do anything for you on your own, you will get shut down. .

sw42 -
If you were to have a problem with your tow vehicle or car and it was still under warranty, where would you go to get it fixed? Who would you call and report the problem to? Ford? GM? Dodge/Ram? Probably not. If you did, they would tell you to contact the dealership. Is this "shutting you down" or passing the buck? No, it's just the way the process works --- you start at the dealership.

Keystone is not any different than Ford, GM or Dodge. You will be told to contact the dealer about your problem. So I am not sure why you would expect Keystone to act any differently than most other manufacturers.
You are right in that it helps a great deal if you have a dealer who will go to bat for you. Having one like that and establishing a good working relationship with them are key to resolving most issues.

Bypassing the dealership and going directly to Keystone will probably result in a lot of frustration and accomplish very little if anything.

[sw342]

sw42 -
If you were to have a problem with your tow vehicle or car and it was still under warranty, where would you go to get it fixed? Who would you call and report the problem to? Ford? GM? Dodge/Ram? Probably not. If you did, they would tell you to contact the dealership. Is this "shutting you down" or passing the buck? No, it's just the way the process works --- you start at the dealership.

Keystone is not any different than Ford, GM or Dodge. You will be told to contact the dealer about your problem. So I am not sure why you would expect Keystone to act any differently than most other manufacturers.
You are right in that it helps a great deal if you have a dealer who will go to bat for you. Having one like that and establishing a good working relationship with them are key to resolving most issues.

Bypassing the dealership and going directly to Keystone will probably result in a lot of frustration and accomplish very little if anything.

When you contact your selling dealer and they blow you off and just want to concentrate on new sales. When you contact the manufacturer and ask for assistance because the selling dealer is of no help and the refer you to another dealer. That dealer won't touch your unit because you did not buy it from them, even though you could not purchase it from them because they do not sell that line, where do you go then? Back to the manufacturer.

If I have a problem with my Ram, I go to any Ram dealer I want. Try that with your trailer. If I have a problem with my Ram, Ford, or GM and cannot get satisfaction from ANY dealer I call my zone rep and he gets involved. Keystone says sorry cannot help you. If the dealer doesn't want to do it they don't have to.

Festus, I don't put my story out on the internet for the world to read. You are making too many assumptions on how I handle my business and the process that took place. The bottom line is if you don't have a good dealer you are screwed if any problems arise. In the RV industry the manufactures are running scared and don't want to piss off the dealers so they have no leverage. The dealer will drop them in a heartbeat for another maker. In the auto industry its the dealers that run scared. They don't want Ford to drop them. Its the manufacturer that holds the power. If they want something done the dealer does it.

[dcg9381]

Generally, I agree with SW (just my opinion) - it's a very different experience having an automobile serviced under warranty than it is dealing with (my) RV local dealer. When we were significantly away from home and had issues that affected livability, calls to the closest dealer start with "did you buy it here"? And Best case with my local dealer, a scheduled repair takes 4-5 weeks right now. Do dealers even make money on warranty repairs? It seems like they are bottom of the priority list.


On the roof, the cover of that AC unit shouldn't rub through. But these darn RV roofs require regular inspection and really require that you stay on top of any possible weakness / repair. When we were shopping for an RV - we started used, and lack of roof care was probably the most common thing that had me walking away. 95% of the units I looked at had no evidence of any roof maintenance.

My guess is that if you can't show regular maintenance checks on the roof - like the kind that are associated with aftermarket warranties, you're almost certainly going to be out of luck with Keystone.

The good news is that if you've kept it out of the rain and haven't had water penetration, what could be a rig-ruining problem can probably be repaired without ridiculous expense. I'd make sure I had some place to store it out of the elements and try to keep travel time to a minimum. Start shopping (ask more than one place) who does RV roof repairs...

[cw3jason]

The 1 year bumper to bumper warranty is the only thing that will cover a bad install. The roof manufacturer warranty of 10 to 12 years depending on manufacturer is only on defective membranes. As this appears to be an installation problem. Not enough glue. It would only be covered under the one year warranty. That being said, people have had work covered outside of the warranty period. Depends on how far out and how you approach it. You get more Flys with honey than vinegar.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[James262]

First of all, Thank you to everyone for your interest and input to this Post.
Second To be perfectly clear, I did not spend 80g's on this TH I bought it used from the Dealer last August and have had it out four times. About 2000 road miles. I apologize if I misled anyone, That was not my intention, I was pretty Fired up.
I been up on the roof a few times this year while washing or just looking around. I have never resealed or replaced any of the roof.
I have contacted the Dealer where I purchased the rig and sent a dozen or so pictures to the Service Manager at his request. When I spoke with him yesterday he stated that there didn't appear to be any voids in the sealant around the cap to let air in and that he was going to get his head Tec, in the office to look at the photos. He also said the A/C unit could be loose and (bouncing around ) up there letting air in because there has to be a void somewhere to let air under the roof material. I looked at the unit and it doesn't appear to be loose. It's my understanding that the SM and Tec, are trying to figure out the source of the problem and determine if it falls under warranty or not.
I sent the same photos to Keystone Customer Service / Warranty and received a automated reply that the would be in touch.
I was hoping that someone else had experience with this very same issue and could shed some light on the situation. I found a post and video from a Member by the name of Hflies and sent him a PM and as of yet have not received a reply. I will keep you informed of any new developments.
Again thank you for your input and I apologize if I mislead anyone.

[mark1228]

First of all, Thank you to everyone for your interest and input to this Post.
Second To be perfectly clear, I did not spend 80g's on this TH I bought it used from the Dealer last August and have had it out four times. About 2000 road miles. I apologize if I misled anyone, That was not my intention, I was pretty Fired up.
I been up on the roof a few times this year while washing or just looking around. I have never resealed or replaced any of the roof.
I have contacted the Dealer where I purchased the rig and sent a dozen or so pictures to the Service Manager at his request. When I spoke with him yesterday he stated that there didn't appear to be any voids in the sealant around the cap to let air in and that he was going to get his head Tec, in the office to look at the photos. He also said the A/C unit could be loose and (bouncing around ) up there letting air in because there has to be a void somewhere to let air under the roof material. I looked at the unit and it doesn't appear to be loose. It's my understanding that the SM and Tec, are trying to figure out the source of the problem and determine if it falls under warranty or not.
I sent the same photos to Keystone Customer Service / Warranty and received a automated reply that the would be in touch.
I was hoping that someone else had experience with this very same issue and could shed some light on the situation. I found a post and video from a Member by the name of Hflies and sent him a PM and as of yet have not received a reply. I will keep you informed of any new developments.
Again thank you for your input and I apologize if I mislead anyone.

And there is the rest of the story. You bought a used trailer with no warranty. Even if you bought the unit new, it would be out of warranty. No one knows if the previous owner did any roof maintenance. I'm sorry for your trouble, but honestly I don't understand why you would come here and blast Keystone. I could totally understand if your original post was something more to effect of "hey I have a problem with Keystone RV and was wondering if anyone had any ideas of what caused it, what it might cost to fix it and how I prevent it in the future."

[James262]

I see I am not the only one to have been lucky enough to have this issue with a newer TH, I am in contact with the dealer and Keystone awaiting a reply. Has anyone had this repaired by Keystone or did you foot the bill. Is the warranty only a year on the roof? Really? 80G's for a Rig and only a year on the Roof?

[James262]

I see I am not the only one to have been lucky enough to have this issue with a newer TH, I am in contact with the dealer and Keystone awaiting a reply. Has anyone had this repaired by Keystone or did you foot the bill. Is the warranty only a year on the roof? Really? 80G's for a Rig and only a year on the Roof?

Mark2128
Did you not read the entire post??

[James262]

I got an E-mail back from Keystone stating the following.
Thank you for contacting Keystone RV. For any issue you want reviewed, the unit has to be inspected by a Keystone dealer and then submitted on a preauthorization for review, no promises of coverage.
Best Regards,
I forwarded that to the SM at the Dealership, He stated that he had another TH come in today with the same problem, same symptoms.
He will sent in a request for both tomorrow and he should have an answer by next week.
Got my fingers crossed.....

[denverpilot]

Ours separated from the nose cap area in the first year and Keystone denied the warranty claiming that "improper sealing/not resealing often enough" was the culprit.

Dealer didn't fight at all. They were happy to take the repair money, though. They screwed a second strip down behind the original strip. Looks like crap.

Whatever. It got fixed.

And then I put Eternabond over the whole mess.

It isn't coming up again any time soon.

Our nose cap has horrible discoloration and is turning white like all the other brown ones did in that model year.

Also nothing done by Keystone on that one either. Never heard their excuse on that one, for an obvious chemical makeup problem in their plastic.

Figure I don't care anymore on the nose cap. I'll just wax the hell out of it and it'll look bad and still function.

The roof leaks again, or has any other problems I'll fix it myself and do a better job than the dealer.

Keystone doesn't back their products properly and doesn't build them well, but that's rampant in the industry as I've learned reading here and elsewhere. Not angry about it, just a fact of life in the modern trailer world.

Learned a lot, still happy with the trailer.

Not impressed with the manufacturers.

Glad I replaced the China Bombs before the first trip long ago, too... with that being the first private messages I got from multiple friends who congratulated us and told us to ditch the factory tires immediately. Information from this forum confirmed it.

One stated in no uncertain terms to not even bother towing with them once.

Built cheap, and everything warranty related, not covered. It's just the way it is.

Good luck on your claim. Ours were useless. In the end only a couple thousand bucks worth of hassle and learning that fixing it myself will yield far better results than anything the industry offers, in the future.

Only thing our dealer has been useful for was adding the front A/C which was pre-wired. I didn't feel like lifting it up there.

Still orders of magnitude cheaper than a Class C or larger and when we blew an injector pump in the pickup this year, separating the trailer from the truck and enjoying two extra days in Nebraska with 50 Amp service and two A/Cs and all the amenities of home while the diesel shop hunted down parts and fixed the truck, was great. No living in a parking lot in an RV with the drivetrain attached. Quite comfy after a run to WalMart for a few Redbox movies and a few things we hadn't put in the fridge yet. 90F+ 90% humidity and we were loving life in our A/C in the 5er.

As long as it doesn't leak, and no matter how ugly the nose cap looks, it's our home away from home. Recliners, cold beverages, movies on the TV, snacks, and A/C... I'll take it over the pop-up we had for almost two decades.

(Even if the pop-up was built better hahaha.)

Good luck with the warranty claim. Seriously. Hope you get them to do the right thing. We didn't, but we still wouldn't change having the 5er for the world.

[Hoef]

Okay, so after having read all the different posts, our decision to purchase a 7-year old Passport 195RB, at a bargain price, is reinforced.

Both my DW, and I are very handy (DW is a licensed residential contractor, here in the sunshine state), and we are fortunate to have a 1400sf shop that has (just about) everything.

To the point... most RV warranties are meaningless; if the warranty has any validity, they are better suited to fight the consumer than vice versa...

I am NOT posting this to show how smart we are, rather, to point out that, if you can fix/ mod/ repair a situation, use your common sense and talent to buy something that others would be afraid to purchase. Case-in-point... our Passport was sitting on the lot because the dealer didn't want to repair the 4 s.f. "soft" floor... it cost us $48, four hours labor, and we have our perfect (for us) TT.

Bottom line is... don't get sucked in by the bright shiny new RV... it is short-lived...

And that is MY $0.02 worth...

:p:rolleyes:

[JRTJH]

I got an E-mail back from Keystone stating the following.
Thank you for contacting Keystone RV. For any issue you want reviewed, the unit has to be inspected by a Keystone dealer and then submitted on a preauthorization for review, no promises of coverage.
Best Regards,
I forwarded that to the SM at the Dealership, He stated that he had another TH come in today with the same problem, same symptoms.
He will sent in a request for both tomorrow and he should have an answer by next week.
Got my fingers crossed.....

I do wish you luck with Keystone, but I'm guessing that your best "hope" for resolution is the dealership. The Keystone warranty is for one year, then there is NO warranty provided by Keystone. Individual components have additional warranty, some are transferrable, some aren't. In the case of the roof, there is NO warranty other than Keystone's one year that covers any installation or application issues. There is a 10 or 12 year (depends on the brand of roofing installed) warranty offered by the membrane manufacturer. That warranty, if you read the manufacturer's warranty, not Keystone's "blurb", states specifically that the membrane is covered by a "pro-rated" warranty "TO THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER" and "IS NOT TRANSFERRABLE". So, Keystone is going to tell you that you have no recourse with the factory. If you "phrase your statements" to the dealership properly, you may be able to convince them that a "good faith warranty" should be included in your purchase. That could possibly get you some assistance with roof repairs, but don't count on Keystone or the membrane manufacturer. You have no warranty with them.

Good Luck

[James262]

Well.... Believe it or not , I talked to the SM, today. I have an appointment on the 14th to repair the roof. After Keystone originally denied my repair and calling Keystone again myself, the General service manager for Keystone contacted my SM, at the dealership and approved the roof repair after he explained the problem. All credit to Ed for getting it handled during one of the peak times of the year for the service Dept.

[James262]

I picked up my TH on Wednesday. They replaced about 4ft of the roof ,from the front cap to just passed the center of the front A/C unit. They re-glued any loose material beyond that and covered the seam with eternal tape and lap seal. I took it to the Lakeside RV park in Pahrump for a Shotgun Course at The Frontsite and it seemed to handle the trip just fine. Thanks to Keystone for stepping up and covering the repair. BIG THANKS to Ed At Johnnie Walker for getting it covered.

[dcg9381]

James,
Glad you had a good outcome. I've been looking into this a lot - it's happened on other Keystone models. Some dealers are moving away from using Alpha TPO as it's "smooth" on the underside, although personally, I can't see that this is the issue.

I've read about warranty denial on this <12 months IF the roof detaches from front seam. In some of those cases, it seems that Keystone can call "maintenance" - if air gets under the TPO all bets are off and it's a chicken or egg situation.

I caught my issue reasonably early as the membrane cut itself up on the AC mount, but before it detached itself from the front. Keystone's fix in my case is to replace the entire membrane. That seems to be the difference in your out-of-warranty repair and an in-warranty repair, although I don't see why your repair wouldn't work just as well.

Yours isn't the only repair I've seen Keystone cover out of warranty. What I've observed in every one of those cases is a dealer who documents that the roof is sealed properly outside of the TPO coming up.

Alpha considers these "installation" failures due to improper amount of glue or technique used to bond the TPO to the OSB after the glue is applied. Keystone is probably Alpha's biggest customer.

How well the roof replacement/repair goes seems to be entirely up to the skill of the dealer doing the repair. In at least one case, pulling up the roof pulls up some of the OSB. Keystone's warranty excludes "cosmetic" issues on the roof - so as long as it doesn't leak, you're not going to get a 2nd chance to repair a roof that a dealer makes a mess of... Your repair looks really good!

Estimates on a "new roof" for a 37' trailer, $6000-$8000 around here. Most of that is labor.

[HDCVO]

I am happy to report, that after appealing to dealer, Keystone has stepped up and authorized to repair the roof on my 2014 Fuzion. This is the same problem others have reported and discussed about the TPO membrane separating from substrate and making contact with AC unit. Dealer is to install new TPO from behind AC to cap. Won't know about details until old material is removed to check condition of OSB board. I will post outcome when repairs are complete in about 2 weeks. Ken

[Nitrodoctor]

So it will no longer be a one piece roof?

[dfb]

I really miss the Aluminum roofs.. No 15 year warranty needed! Also, the gel coat looks nice, For a while... I wish they would give you an aluminum exterior option.. No need to buff and paint or to re do.... Aluminum ALWAYS looked good.. Easier to repair too...

[chuckster57]

Aluminum siding requires lots of "hands on" labor to construct a sidewall. Each piece is stapled in place and openings are cut with sizzors. Vacuum bonded walls are one piece and openings are zipped out quickly with a router.

Some "lower end" brands still use the aluminum slats, and yeah if you know what your doing a repair can be easier, but on the down side leaning on that type of exterior can cause dents and such. To each their own, but I'll take the vacuum bonded walls all day long.

[JRTJH]

I really miss the Aluminum roofs.. No 15 year warranty needed! Also, the gel coat looks nice, For a while... I wish they would give you an aluminum exterior option.. No need to buff and paint or to re do.... Aluminum ALWAYS looked good.. Easier to repair too...

If you've ever had the "misfortune" of owning a Holiday Rambler (aluminum siding and roof) and experiencing a hailstorm, you'll welcome fiberglass and EPDM/TPO trailers......

[TexasKevin]

I was on the roof of my 2012 Fuzion this weekend hanging cd's from the awning to keep the birds away and found some pleats or ripples in the rubber roof material. There is also a rip next to the front a/c unit caused(I suspect)by the material rubbing on the units side flashing. The first 12 or so feet of the roof appears to have de-laminated and is flapping in the wind as I drive down the road. I see I am not the only one to have been lucky enough to have this issue with a newer TH, I am in contact with the dealer and Keystone awaiting a reply. Has anyone had this repaired by Keystone or did you foot the bill. Is the warranty only a year on the roof? Really? 80G's for a Rig and only a year on the Roof?

I have the exact problem with my 2015 Sprinter. I have used in on 6 trips and it is always stored inside my garage. I took it to the dealer and they said it was installed wrong. Keystone told me it was out of warranty by 1 month. I have been trying to get this corrected and they agreed to replace only 10 ft of the roof. I didnt pay 40k for a trailer with a seam and will not accept it. They have been informed from the dealer as well as me that it was not installed correctly but they still say repair. I have wrote emails to the CEO, of course it has not been answered, I call them everyday and will continue until they replace my roof. I called an attorney and will utilize legal action if required. They will not accept ownwership of their faulty manufacturing. I have seen several forum posting along with this one with the same issue. My dealer is standing with me in that they know it was not put on correctly. I will keep u posted on my outcome.

[dcg9381]

Kevin,
have you seen what your dealer has submitted? Even if you have to pursue legal action - you'll want documentation that indicates "installed incorrectly" from the dealer. How the dealer writes that up may be a part of the issue.

Our roof did the same thing. Service manager said he'd never seen another unit do that, but when I was in the service bay the techs told me that they'd done several new units...

I was quoted 8-9k for a new roof on a 37' trailer. I think it's a high margin deal, probably less than $2k in supplies. My dealer turned ours around (once they started on it) in 48 hours.