Running LT tires on trailers in Ontario

[LittleJoe]

I've posted a bit on this in the past IIRC but have seen first hand again lately....

In this case it was not an RV but a commercial licensed DRW pulling a triaxle float (nothing on float). He had to pull through open scales on his route, and was invited in back for a closer look at things.

The trailer had 6 fairly new looking LT tires. The trailer was impounded on the spot and did not roll again until the tires were changed to ST tires.

I know that RV's do not as of yet have to hit scales but if for any reason you are ever pulled over by DOT or (yes police) they can shut you down on the spot for not having correct tires.( This was clarified by the supervisor at the scale house that night)

I also am of the opinion that it may not be all that long before RV's do have to pull through scales because every province and state is looking for more ways to improve income given the economical state most of NA is in.

[CWtheMan]

I've posted a bit on this in the past IIRC but have seen first hand again lately....

In this case it was not an RV but a commercial licensed DRW pulling a triaxle float (nothing on float). He had to pull through open scales on his route, and was invited in back for a closer look at things.

The trailer had 6 fairly new looking LT tires. The trailer was impounded on the spot and did not roll again until the tires were changed to ST tires.

I know that RV's do not as of yet have to hit scales but if for any reason you are ever pulled over by DOT or (yes police) they can shut you down on the spot for not having correct tires.( This was clarified by the supervisor at the scale house that night)

I also am of the opinion that it may not be all that long before RV's do have to pull through scales because every province and state is looking for more ways to improve income given the economical state most of NA is in.

A tire's size includes it's design and load capacity.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section5.1.4.shtml

[hankpage]

I have a feeling the trailer was flagged because the tires did not meet the load range for the axle or GVW rating. If the tires were commercial three position (drive, steer, trailer) of the proper load rating IMO I don't think DOT would have a leg to stand on. If so most semis would be flagged also for not using ST tires. Things may be different north of the border but I don't know of any state that says you MUST put only ST tires on a trailer. JM2¢, Hank

[LittleJoe]

It was most definitely the fact that they were LT tires. No ST trailer tires.

I agree that if proof could be shown that they were all position tires you might have a leg to stand on (keeping copies stating such in truck).

But in the real world the DOT rules and even if you went to court and won, the fact is your trailer is still at the scale house and won't be moving anywhere soon until the tires are brought up to code.......probably long before you get your day in court.

[audio1der]

I guess we will have to make the decision to play within the rules or not play, if what you suggest becomes legislation. When we began, I discovered British Columbia had the most strict towing guidelines I could find in Canada, so I ensure we always meet those. That includes tires, safety chain use and brake away cable secured to the frame of our truck not just the eyelet of the hitch.

At least of they legislate ST tires for trailers it should put a nail in the coffin of the ST/LT debate, albeit not by choice.

[jodrey]

the LT tires for a RV is mark on the side for trailer use only because their capacity of load are higher then a LT tires for pickup with the same size.

[CWtheMan]

This is an “off the wall” explanation (hypothetical) of what probably took place.

I seldom reference this instruction. It’s from the Code of Federal Regulations which comes under the heading; title 49 - Transportation. I’m actually quoting from part 570.62 - tires: More specifically, tires for vehicles over 10,000# GVWR.


Part 570 is about vehicle in use inspections. 570 is written with basic minimum standards for those states conduction such inspections. Most often Canada and the USA are in agreement about such regulations and the inspection criteria.

This paragraph pertains to what has probably happened to the OPs trailer friend in post #1.

“(1) Inspection procedure. Examine visually. A mismatch in size and construction between tires on the same axle, or a major deviation from the size recommended by the vehicle or tire manufacturer, is a cause for rejection. On a dual-tire arrangement the diameter of one of the duals must be within one-half inch of the other as measured by a gauge block inserted between the tire and a caliper.”

I’ll guess that the trailer in question had a certification label depicting ST tires as Original Equipment. Using LT tires to replace them is a major deviation.

Another point to remember is about the DOT. For those building vehicles - trailers included - using FVMSS guidelines there is but one authorized selector of Original Equipment tires, THE VEHICLE MANUFACTURER.

[randy69]

I live in Ontario southern califorina. I have a triple axel 5th wheel running xp ribs rated at 3042 lb per tire. The tire rating 84 lb more per axel. Best tire ever for bought for my rig.

[Ken / Claudia]

When I was trained and than was assigned to conduct truck inspections and check trucks weights. That was started in 1987 on/off until 2003. We went by what the tire was listed and not type when regarding weight limits. I (we) did check weight of RVs and pickups when they looked over weight or where near scales. I doubt that as changed at least here. Of course there are many, likely hundreds of reasons for pulling a vehicle off the road or issuing a cite. To be clear there are tires marked off road only, those would be illegal and if the load capacity was not readable we had charts for tire size and plys to give max. wt. Could you state how and who told, or how you learned it was removed from the road because of LT tires v ST and no other reason. Here the most common reason for red tagging (placing trailer out of service or off the road) was lack of working emergency trailer break away breaking device.

[CWtheMan]

I live in Ontario southern califorina. I have a triple axel 5th wheel running xp ribs rated at 3042 lb per tire. The tire rating 84 lb more per axel. Best tire ever for bought for my rig.

Here you have made a bold statement that needs clarification.

This is not about pro and con. It’s about facts. And, it’s not intended to be any form of “bashing”.

An owner can run any tire design they see fit and feel safe/comfortable with. The consequences are that owner is 100% committed and responsible for his actions.

RV trailer manufacturers must use numerous regulations and guidelines to produce a certified trailer for the road. Many of those regulations are Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). RV trailer wheels, tires, and axles are three items regulated by FMVSS.

The FMVSS requires the RV trailer manufacturer to select tires that will, at the very minimum, support each GAWR listed on the trailer’s certification label. Once the trailer manufacturer selects the Original Equipment (OE) tires the FMVSS directs that the vehicle manufacturer set a recommended tire inflation pressure that will support the GAWR it’s fitted to. Another key point is the selection of rims suitable for the tire selection. Once all those items have been selected the trailer manufacturer must provide a certification label with the precise size and value of each item selected. Those items then become the benchmark for all subsequent replacements.

The DOT is firm in it’s decision to give sole responsibility for OE tire selection to the vehicle manufacturer. The tire industry supports it by developing standards that are very close in uniformity to this; Replacement tires must be the same size as the OE tires or have an equal or greater load carrying capacity as the OE tires (by inflation).

Tire retailers not following tire industry standards are doing a disservice to the manufacturers they represent and to any uninformed customers/consumers.

Tire manufacturers are not going to honor a warranty claim they know to be fraudulent. Many of the new tire warranty packages describe what is not covered with the warranty. Misapplication is on all of them.

New tires are coming on the market every day. A lot of them are for RV trailers. Tire replacement options are getting wider and wider without having to use individually trusted brands. The TRA is OK with ST tires going up in speed restrictions to 81 MPH. Many of the ST manufacturers are already touting speeds above the old benchmark of 65 MPH.

Footnotes: This is an official tire size; ST225/75R15D or LRD. So is this LT235/85R16E or LRE. And this 205R14C LRD = European commercial LT tire sometimes suitable by it’s manufacturer for trailer service.

Because a vehicle manufacturer uses LT tires on a similar sized trailer and ST tires on another does not mean they are interchangeable between the two trailers. The individual certification label determines what is suitable.

When a trailer manufacturer offers an optional sized tire and a prospective buyer selects that option the certification label must be changed prior to first sale to display the tires installed at the time of first sale.

Probably too much info for a single post, I’ll quit now…..

[hankpage]

CW....., Just a quick note ..... The post you quoted was about XPS Ribs. They are rated as Commercial Three position tires ..... Drive - steer --- and TRAILER. They are designed for trailer use and I agree with Randy in his choice of tires. JM2¢, Hank

[CWtheMan]

CW....., Just a quick note ..... The post you quoted was about XPS Ribs. They are rated as Commercial Three position tires ..... Drive - steer --- and TRAILER. They are designed for trailer use and I agree with Randy in his choice of tires. JM2¢, Hank

According to the specs for Randy’s toy hauler it’s OE tires were ST235/80R16E with a rating somewhere around 3420# - 3520# @ 80 psi. There are zero 16” Michelin tires with that much load capacity. So a misapplication has taken place there. In other words, zero Michelin warranty support.

The FMVSS do not transfer to any individual trailer owner. They are written specifically to guide the trailer builder. It’s the trailer builder’s responsibility to set size, load capacity, tire design and inflation parameters.

The Michelin XPS rib tires are designed as LT tires with high commercial value because of the built-in durability to perform such duties. They are not designed as trailer tires. However, Michelin has seen fit to rate them for commercial trailer service (once again).

The built-in durability consists mainly of an all steel carcass, an extra steel belt to help prevent punctures and sidewall inserts to protect the carcass from sidewall scuffing damages. And, they are retreadable. Durability does not add tire strength.

The Keystone Owner’s manual tells all, about replacement tires. Just as soon as the owner neglects to ask Keystone about replacements they have stepped outside of the box. Sooner or later we’ll all do it. Our Everest has been with us for 13 years. I doubt we have any warranty left to violate. But, we still have ST tires.

[bobbecky]

To really solve this problem, and do it safely and legally, put G range tires on it, such as the Goodyear G614, or the Sailun S637 G, and you will have 3750 lbs weight capacity. Even though these tires are LT rated, that is only for their speed rating which is 75 mph, and they are intended to be used as trailer tires.

[fred1609]

LT have a reserve capacity that ST's do not, about 20 percent. And at the end of the day I will not endure the same delamination again. I brought the pictures of my tire to our tire shop. The tire tech said this was a quality issue during construction. Yup no more Chinese ST tires for me.

[CWtheMan]

LT have a reserve capacity that ST's do not, about 20 percent. And at the end of the day I will not endure the same delamination again. I brought the pictures of my tire to our tire shop. The tire tech said this was a quality issue during construction. Yup no more Chinese ST tires for me.

I'll bet you cant provide a document that will dispute the maximum load capacity depicted on the sidewall of a DOT certified tire.