cb1000rider
05-31-2015, 06:39 AM
So below reflects my experience (from my perspective) and is largely a commentary on the RV purchase process. It is not a reflection on Keystone. It's meant to be a constructive report that may or may help other buyers in terms of what to expect.
Pre-purchase:
Sales isn't my favorite career, so I always start off somewhat skeptical of what any sales person says. My wife did initial shopping, as she's in charge of all things lifestyle practical. She found a floor plan that she liked with another brand. I researched that brand and found it to be stick framed, which I wasn't crazy about. Keystone provided largely the same features a bit higher price, but had steel framing that I was after.
The sales guy was actually pretty good. Not pushy. He answered most of my questions and provided information that I wasn't aware of - like that the lippert trailer frame could actually be aligned. He did provide one piece of misinformation - he indicated that 7k axles were mislabeled - covering for my question about 16.5k gross weight on 2 x 7k axles... He, like me, didn't consider distribution of the pin weight.
They provide a membership to "route 66" where the sales guy indicated that I'd get priority service and repair across the US. This this is how they address some of the marketing from places like RVDirect.com.
Price negotiation - it was end of the month, I really do think that played a factor. Searched RV trader and they immediately price matched another dealer.
Locking up the purchase:
A $1000 deposit was required to have the trailer prepped. That means no PDI and no real testing of anything that required electricity.
They were pretty pushy about the deposit - asking me to send CC information via email over the weekend. I told them to call me on Monday instead. They said the deposit would be refunded once it closed.
Pre-purchase inspection
So I *never* buy new. Not a new car, nothing. The toy hauler - I didn't see enough depreciation to justify used and 95% of all RVs are not cared for to my standards. As such, I had no experience with the purchase process and typical pre-buy qualification. I got educated on it late through this forum, printed a checklist, and emailed the dealer indicating that I needed several hours to walk through the RV, was going to take my time, and didn't require assistance. I was told "no problem".
We wired them a down payment. They were very concerned when that wire didn't arrive immediately. I asked if I could send wire confirmation and they said "no" and suggested that I immediately bring a cashers check in the same amount as the wire. I confirmed with my bank that the wire went out and didn't bring them another cashiers check. I contrast this to a car/truck purchase where they're pretty laid back about it and would even take a personal check. The wire showed up at 5pm - not sure why it transferred that late.
Arriving, they had a tech out who walked me through everything. He was absolutely great and I really appreciate the people that turn "wrenches" on these things for a living. I knew how everything worked, minus some surprises with the tanks (multiple gray) and with the electric water heater operation.
He did hover over me while I went through my inspection, including the roof. I'm quite sure that I wasn't to be allowed to inspect unsupervised. After 2 hours, I started getting pressure - finance manager was showing up, etc. I ignored it and told them that I'd be done when I was satisfied.
One ridiculous thing happened. I was pestered by the tech to have "winterization" service done. Mind you this is Texas in May. He asked me twice. I declined. I told him it was ridiculous, but he said he was required to ask.
All in all, I found two minor issues - one with garage door alignment and the other with adjustment of the garage bed. Neither could be fixed "that day" - which I was OK with and at this point, I had enough confidence to sign without those repairs.
Closing
Back to the back room. I had allowed them to run credit - but only if they were confident that they could beat my rate from a local credit union. And they did by .25%. Good enough.
I got the hard sell on a service plan. Actually 4 different service plans. I was told that they were "bumper to bumper" - but knew better. They were actually ALL inclusionary warranties with deductibles, far from bumper to bumper. He also tried to sell them by monthly payment increase. I told him that I wouldn't even discuss them in monthly payment form. When translated to dollars, a 5-year not-bumper-to-bumper warranty was $5000.
He told me that water pumps fail and would be covered by warranty. I pointed out that a water pump is under $100 and that it might be covered by warranty, but it'd still be subject to deductible. Bad example. He said the "stereo" might fail. I indicated that I could buy a lot of stereo for $5k.
The next press was the "mattress" sale - for only $1000. Declined.
They didn't refund the deposit, they applied it to close. I had an opportunity to catch it in supplied purchase documents prior, so it's really my fault and I think just a miscommunication. Wasn't a big deal to me.
The only real surprise was that their financing had a pre-payment penalty. It's 100% my fault that I didn't stipulate, but pre-paying is going to end up costing me a little bit of money. It wasn't enough to trigger a re-do. Minor. But watch out for it if you plan to pay off early.
Once signed, I inquired about Route 66 and was told that it wasn't a repair service, but a diagnosis service... So that's kinda a bummer. Different message after the sale.
I asked about appliance warranty and he indicated that I'd need to register each component separately, but my Keystone warranty would be done by them. Again, pressed for service plan.. Asked me what I'd be willing to pay. Declined. A service plan may very well be a good idea for those that aren't mechanically focused - so I'm not knocking it or being negative, it just doesn't work well for me, usually the hassle of transportation is in excess of what it costs to repair something in terms of time/trouble. He asked if I "self-insured" everything. I said no.
Last, I got a disclaimer about post-sale service. The dealer indicated that the do Keystone warranty work, but the do not provide the warranty. I think this translates into "if Keystone won't cover it, we're not covering it", which I understand. I asked about priority service within the next 30 days, as we've got a 3k trip coming up and he said "no promises" - so in retrospect, that's something that I'd get worked out before the sale next time...
Hope this helps someone. Not a bad experience, just different than buying a car...
Pre-purchase:
Sales isn't my favorite career, so I always start off somewhat skeptical of what any sales person says. My wife did initial shopping, as she's in charge of all things lifestyle practical. She found a floor plan that she liked with another brand. I researched that brand and found it to be stick framed, which I wasn't crazy about. Keystone provided largely the same features a bit higher price, but had steel framing that I was after.
The sales guy was actually pretty good. Not pushy. He answered most of my questions and provided information that I wasn't aware of - like that the lippert trailer frame could actually be aligned. He did provide one piece of misinformation - he indicated that 7k axles were mislabeled - covering for my question about 16.5k gross weight on 2 x 7k axles... He, like me, didn't consider distribution of the pin weight.
They provide a membership to "route 66" where the sales guy indicated that I'd get priority service and repair across the US. This this is how they address some of the marketing from places like RVDirect.com.
Price negotiation - it was end of the month, I really do think that played a factor. Searched RV trader and they immediately price matched another dealer.
Locking up the purchase:
A $1000 deposit was required to have the trailer prepped. That means no PDI and no real testing of anything that required electricity.
They were pretty pushy about the deposit - asking me to send CC information via email over the weekend. I told them to call me on Monday instead. They said the deposit would be refunded once it closed.
Pre-purchase inspection
So I *never* buy new. Not a new car, nothing. The toy hauler - I didn't see enough depreciation to justify used and 95% of all RVs are not cared for to my standards. As such, I had no experience with the purchase process and typical pre-buy qualification. I got educated on it late through this forum, printed a checklist, and emailed the dealer indicating that I needed several hours to walk through the RV, was going to take my time, and didn't require assistance. I was told "no problem".
We wired them a down payment. They were very concerned when that wire didn't arrive immediately. I asked if I could send wire confirmation and they said "no" and suggested that I immediately bring a cashers check in the same amount as the wire. I confirmed with my bank that the wire went out and didn't bring them another cashiers check. I contrast this to a car/truck purchase where they're pretty laid back about it and would even take a personal check. The wire showed up at 5pm - not sure why it transferred that late.
Arriving, they had a tech out who walked me through everything. He was absolutely great and I really appreciate the people that turn "wrenches" on these things for a living. I knew how everything worked, minus some surprises with the tanks (multiple gray) and with the electric water heater operation.
He did hover over me while I went through my inspection, including the roof. I'm quite sure that I wasn't to be allowed to inspect unsupervised. After 2 hours, I started getting pressure - finance manager was showing up, etc. I ignored it and told them that I'd be done when I was satisfied.
One ridiculous thing happened. I was pestered by the tech to have "winterization" service done. Mind you this is Texas in May. He asked me twice. I declined. I told him it was ridiculous, but he said he was required to ask.
All in all, I found two minor issues - one with garage door alignment and the other with adjustment of the garage bed. Neither could be fixed "that day" - which I was OK with and at this point, I had enough confidence to sign without those repairs.
Closing
Back to the back room. I had allowed them to run credit - but only if they were confident that they could beat my rate from a local credit union. And they did by .25%. Good enough.
I got the hard sell on a service plan. Actually 4 different service plans. I was told that they were "bumper to bumper" - but knew better. They were actually ALL inclusionary warranties with deductibles, far from bumper to bumper. He also tried to sell them by monthly payment increase. I told him that I wouldn't even discuss them in monthly payment form. When translated to dollars, a 5-year not-bumper-to-bumper warranty was $5000.
He told me that water pumps fail and would be covered by warranty. I pointed out that a water pump is under $100 and that it might be covered by warranty, but it'd still be subject to deductible. Bad example. He said the "stereo" might fail. I indicated that I could buy a lot of stereo for $5k.
The next press was the "mattress" sale - for only $1000. Declined.
They didn't refund the deposit, they applied it to close. I had an opportunity to catch it in supplied purchase documents prior, so it's really my fault and I think just a miscommunication. Wasn't a big deal to me.
The only real surprise was that their financing had a pre-payment penalty. It's 100% my fault that I didn't stipulate, but pre-paying is going to end up costing me a little bit of money. It wasn't enough to trigger a re-do. Minor. But watch out for it if you plan to pay off early.
Once signed, I inquired about Route 66 and was told that it wasn't a repair service, but a diagnosis service... So that's kinda a bummer. Different message after the sale.
I asked about appliance warranty and he indicated that I'd need to register each component separately, but my Keystone warranty would be done by them. Again, pressed for service plan.. Asked me what I'd be willing to pay. Declined. A service plan may very well be a good idea for those that aren't mechanically focused - so I'm not knocking it or being negative, it just doesn't work well for me, usually the hassle of transportation is in excess of what it costs to repair something in terms of time/trouble. He asked if I "self-insured" everything. I said no.
Last, I got a disclaimer about post-sale service. The dealer indicated that the do Keystone warranty work, but the do not provide the warranty. I think this translates into "if Keystone won't cover it, we're not covering it", which I understand. I asked about priority service within the next 30 days, as we've got a 3k trip coming up and he said "no promises" - so in retrospect, that's something that I'd get worked out before the sale next time...
Hope this helps someone. Not a bad experience, just different than buying a car...