3/4 ton short bed Gassers

[Rustymax]

I know there will always be a discussion as to diesel verses a gasser, and my intent here is not to breach this issue but rather to seek some practical TV experience from forum members. What I would like to know is; has anyone pulled a 11,163lb dry weight, 1850 lb hitch weight 5er with a 2500 gasser short bed? (Make of vehicle is not important). Not owning a TV, and planning to purchase a TV in the fall, I was wondering if one only tows for 3-4 months per year, would a gasser be more economical to operate as a second vehicle. I am well aware of the pros and cons of going diesel, but I’m trying to justify the extra $8K required if a gasser can do the job. I have been told (second hand) of a local person that has been towing his Montana 34foot with a 250 Ford and hasn’t experienced any problems. With the cost of fuel headed for European prices, I want to know of all my options. Obviously I am a green horn, completely uninitiated as to towing heavy loads and need some insight. We have only pulled pop-ups over the years, but retirement is not far off and I’m conducting research before I launh my missilesl. The 3140RL is singing to our hearts and most likely be our choice. We are also considering a pullrite super glide if we go short bed. Share what you can – I’m open.

Rustymax

[1st. Knight]

I have a Cougar 276rls which weighs 7500 dry with 1450 hitch weight. I pull with a GMC 2500HD with 6.0 Gas and 3:73 gears. It pulls it fine and leave in 5th gear at 2100 RPM. On hills it does drop to 4th gear and 3000 RPM and does fine but I don't push it. Mileage is between 9.5 and 10MPG. Since I don't pull more than 6 times a year with less than 500 miles each trip, it isn't a big deal.
If I had a bigger trailer like you are looking at, I would definitely buy the diesel. I wish I had for better gas mileage and easier pulling.

[Festus2]

What about this "gasser" ............the Ford 350 V8 (6.2L) or the 350 V10 (6.8L)???

[jje1960]

I know there will always be a discussion as to diesel verses a gasser, and my intent here is not to breach this issue but rather to seek some practical TV experience from forum members. What I would like to know is; has anyone pulled a 11,163lb dry weight, 1850 lb hitch weight 5er with a 2500 gasser short bed? (Make of vehicle is not important). Not owning a TV, and planning to purchase a TV in the fall, I was wondering if one only tows for 3-4 months per year, would a gasser be more economical to operate as a second vehicle. I am well aware of the pros and cons of going diesel, but I’m trying to justify the extra $8K required if a gasser can do the job. I have been told (second hand) of a local person that has been towing his Montana 34foot with a 250 Ford and hasn’t experienced any problems. With the cost of fuel headed for European prices, I want to know of all my options. Obviously I am a green horn, completely uninitiated as to towing heavy loads and need some insight. We have only pulled pop-ups over the years, but retirement is not far off and I’m conducting research before I launh my missilesl. The 3140RL is singing to our hearts and most likely be our choice. We are also considering a pullrite super glide if we go short bed. Share what you can – I’m open.

Rustymax

We went through the same exercise before our decision Rustymax. Not wanting to engage in the debate here with the gas-diesel... can only relate our reasoning and end purchase. We went for the long run, spending that kind of cash was huge for us, after much consideration went with the F350/Diesel/DRW and have not regretted it since. We now will plan around our imagination, don't matter what mountain or worry about spec's. We used the long-run, life-time purchase mentality, ended up with a beast of a truck that gives us a huge piece of mind. Good luck with what ever you end up with, have fun and safe travels! BTW, got 11mpg on our maiden voyage and don't believe the truck was even near breath'in hard the entire 650mi....

[dea3851]

I pull my Cougar 2010 318SAB weights about 11,000 lbs loaded and hitch weight about 1800, with a ford F250 2002 3/4 ton 3.73 gears, with a V10, love the truck and it pulls the 318 with no trouble gas mileage around 8 mpg , I know guys with new fords gas pulling lighter trailers and getting only 7 mpg so I don't think I'm doing to bad, went up to u.p. in Michigan last fall for 9 days no trouble with pulling it, just not sold on diesels I hear lots of stories about repairs and upkeep costing alot, just my opinion. Don from Ludington Mi.

[gbsb]

I was pulling a 3670 Montana about the same weight your looking at with a GMC 3500 DRW with a 8.1 gas. I get 7 mpg pulling. I am getting ready to retire in 3 months and we are going to Alaska. We now have a Fuzion 383 toyhauler and we are going to use the truck we have. I know a diesel would do the job better but what we have is paid for so buying another truck to get 5 more mpg and extra power is out of the question. good luck with your choice. George

[Bigk]

The dry weight of your intended coach should not be used. You will probably be close to 14,000lb loaded. Your pin weight will be approximately 2800lbs. Pulling that kind of weight with a 3/4 ton gasser might not be your best option.

[jol]

Not sure about the gasser in my own use as we are using a diesel but have a friend who had the 6.0 in a 3/4 ton Silverado and he said he had trouble keeping speed up in the eastern part of Colorado and swears the you could see the gas guage move. We did buy a used diesel as I like you see that extra 8,000.00 on there and say uh too rich for me. Do like the power the diesel has for pulling and I like you was pulling pop-ups all the time so the 4.0 Explorer did fine even in the mountains

[Jim W]

Rusty,
If you do a search in Towing and Tow Vehicles, you will find a lot of information on towing with a 3/4 ton gas vehicle. I know, I did the search and here is one thread for you to read.
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1271

I use to pull a similar size camper with a 2001, 2500HD, Chevy Silverado Ext cab, SWB, 6.0 L Gas truck, 4X4 with Auto and a 3:73 to 1 gear set. I only pulled the camper twice with this truck and said never again. The next truck will be a diesel engine.

We can only offer our opinions, it is you who will need to reach and make this decision and only you.
Good Luck

Jim W.

[Houndie Dog]

My first pulling truck was a 2009 3/4 Chevy with a Vortec 6.0L. I pulled a 326MKS 38' Cougar that weighs in around 11K to 11.5K....... The engine pulled fine, but going up hills was really slow and high RPM's. The mileage was 6-8 MPG pulling. The GCVW was 1500lbs over the limit of the truck.
I sold that and bought a Dodge with a 6.7 Cummins and I can't even tell you the difference a diesel makes, if I need to pass someone, I can pull out in the fast lane and hit 75mph easily without the truck even breathing hard....with the gas engine that was basically impossible. The diesel has twice the torque as the gas engine did (350lbs vs 630 lbs) and The Diesel also gets better mileage and I have been averaging around 10-11 MPG pulling.
My recommendation is get a diesel unless you are pulling really short, flat, trips.
Another benefit of a diesel is you can refuel at the huge fueling bays at truckstops without worrying about hitting anything.
If you do decide to get a diesel DO YOUR HOMEWORK............. everyone will have a different opinion on what truck to get but there are differences in models like MPG, EPA equipment, and addons like engine brakes.

I went through exactly the same thing you are so if you have anymore questions you can feel free to PM me.

The most important thing to remember is this....buy your RV first, then buy your truck (unless your going to spring for a dually)......if you get your truck first you may end up getting an RV you can't safely pull.

I had a superglide in my shortbed and loved it so much I put it in my longbed.......crazy I know, but if you look at my pic you can fit a mack truck between my cab and trailer and it tows great.
Good luck....
Grant

PS.... Don't jump on me for the 75mph comment, I don't usually do that, but was just seeing what the truck could do.

[msp2jxr]

Hi,
I have a F 250 diesel and most of my trailers have been well under the 10,000 pound mark and could be pulled with a gas truck. My last trailer was a Sundance 30' which had a dry weight of 7200#. I have owned nine trailers if you include the one I just purchased. I would not go back to a gas truck again to pull any trailer of much size and weight. We just purchased a Cougar MKS 326 which has a weight of almost 10,000#. My real point is you never really know what you are going to be pulling so make the investment and buy the vehicle that will pull it all. I don't really know if I can justify the cost of the diesel especially with diesel costing more than unleaded fuel. Pulling my Sundance I would get between 10 mpg to12mpg depending on terrain and wind with the diesel 6.4. Most of the gas trucks I was lucky if I could make 10mpg and those trailers were in the 4400# to 6000# range. I hope this gives you some food for thought. I know your situation may be different than mine.

[Rustymax]

All

Thanks for all the advice. I hear the message - buy a diesel!. I think a 3/4 ton will do the job, now to find a good deal on a 2 year old one. Has anyone ever purchased a used TV from "Texas Direct"? (see web page) Their trucks look clean, low miles. Is there any thing that I should be aware of when shopping for a diesel? I hear so many horror stories of ejectors and other large ticket items having to be replaced prematurely.
Just trying not to make too many rookie mistakes.
Rustymax

[Jim W]

Hi, I not trying to push the Cummins Diesel on you. You may be a Ford /Chevy guy and that is OK.

What I do know is that Turbo Diesel Register has a 257 page buyers guide for you to read. This is a down loadable, pdf book for you to read. I believe this will answer all your questions on Diesel trucks. Here is the link, you do not have to be a member. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/magazines/buyersguide.phtml

One thing to remember is that a diesel engine, if maintain correctly will out last a gas engine by 100,000 miles. A Cummins should last to 300,000 miles until tear down and rebuild. I believe the ford and chevy diesel are in the 200,000 mile range before tear down and rebuild.
Jim W.

[jje1960]

...........I can't even tell you the difference a diesel makes, if I need to pass someone, I can pull out in the fast lane and hit 75mph easily without the truck even breathing hard....with the gas engine that was basically impossible.......
My recommendation is get a diesel unless you are pulling really short, flat, trips.
Another benefit of a diesel is you can refuel at the huge fueling bays at truckstops without worrying about hitting anything.


Good info here... (other than it's not a Ford) JUST KIDDIN Dog! Seriously, Dog's post is keen. Since having our F350, the power is just priceless. For us, makes a huge difference having 400/800. And the truck stops for diesel always accommodate our 13' 5ver without worry.

[mhs4771]

My personal preference: 1 Ton Dually Diesel. Towed a small TT with a Heavy Duty 1/2 ton, did OK, but at the end of the day I was beat. Went to a 1 Ton Dually, can tow all day and be ready to go dancing that evening, then upgraded to the 5er and still a breeze. Montanas are not light weights and the numbers in the brochures are way understated. You will probably end up with a King Pin weight that may well exceed the cap of a 3/4 ton. Again you can get all types of opinions, I would rather error on the side of caution and have more truck than needed rather than be pushing the limits waiting for something to happen.

[jol]

All

Thanks for all the advice. I hear the message - buy a diesel!. I think a 3/4 ton will do the job, now to find a good deal on a 2 year old one. Has anyone ever purchased a used TV from "Texas Direct"? (see web page) Their trucks look clean, low miles. Is there any thing that I should be aware of when shopping for a diesel? I hear so many horror stories of ejectors and other large ticket items having to be replaced prematurely.
Just trying not to make too many rookie mistakes.
Rustymax

Not sure but if your in the Carolinas but we were in Virginia and kept going buy this place and he seems reasonable http://www.handpickedtrucks.com

[scroses]

Driver fatigue is a big part of it, too. With our 5.3 gasser we hit 4k RPMs here in Colorado on big pulls. Eventhough the engine is doing the work, it causes stress on the driver when the motor is working hard. It's equally stressful controlling the vehicle on downhills. I'd be dog tired after a days drive.

We just bought a dodge mega cab 6.7 Cummins with an exhaust brake. The cruise control automatically downshifts on downhills to keep your speed within range. Plus the exhaust brake makes a world of difference. I agree the cost is extremely high, but the $8k difference gives you better pulling power, better mileage, and much better control downhill when equipped with an exhaust brake. This equals peace of mind and far less driver fatigue.

Like you, I did a ton of research. In the end, it wasn't just a matter of what kind of fuel you burned. Diesel's are towing platforms with transmissions designed for towing, engines designed for hundreds of thousands of miles, and the newer ones have exhaust brakes (I think Ford is actually a turbo brake), that give you a far great ability to tow hard with far less impact to truck and driver.

[2011 keystone]

I could not have said it any better. I tow with a 5.3 now but im in the market for a diesel. My stress level raises the higher the rpm's go.:eek:

[jje1960]

Already stated, and I will echo this for sure. I find driving with the RV so much more enjoyable now, priceless.

[LarryL]

I to have a Cougar 326MKS pull it with a Chev 3/4 6.0 Vortec 6speed auto
Have only had for 1 month, but sure pulls easy even up hills,60,65mph easy.
The speed limit is 55 in Calif,thats where we do most of our camping,I have been thinking about getting in and out of gas stations,but thats where the GPS will come in handy to find truckstops with gas i hope.
I had a harder time pulling my 2009 Outback and it was 1500lb lighter.
it had 15'' wheels the cougar has 16'' 1'm sure that makes a big diffrents.

[LarryL]

I to have a Cougar 326MKS pull it with a Chev 3/4 6.0 Vortec 6speed auto
Have only had for 1 month, but sure pulls easy even up hills,60,65mph easy.
The speed limit is 55 in Calif,thats where we do most of our camping,I have been thinking about getting in and out of gas stations,but thats where the GPS will come in handy to find truckstops with gas i hope.
I had a harder time pulling my 2009 Outback and it was 1500lb lighter.
it had 15'' wheels the cougar has 16'' 1'm sure that makes a big diffrents.

[rgwilliams69]

Last year we had a 2010 F250 CC SB (5.4 V8) pulling a 2010 Outback Sydney with close to the same specified weight and pin weight you mention. All I can say of that combination is that it was not fun to travel. Would it do it? Yes. Were you tired and worn out if you had to drive over 120 miles or so? You bet. Did I get respectable gas mileage? I don't think so. Probably averaged 5mpg - if there was no wind I could get up to 7mpg. And that was pulling in the flat lands of central Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio.

So since I had consulted with my trusty Ford dealer on rated capacity towing before buying the truck when I went back to complain I guess they felt bad that I was not enjoying the truck. Long story short I quickly got out of the 2010 and into a 2011 F250 CC SB 6.7 Diesel (with the camper package - overload springs, heavy duty front, etc.). First trip with the Outback, when I arrived I thought maybe I had forgot the camper because you never even realized it was back there. The difference in towing experience is phenomenal. Is it $7000 worth of difference (6.7 Diesel option)? You bet.

Now since I have so much additional towing capacity to play with we have decided to upgrade from the Outback to an Alpine 3640RL. Take delivery of that bad boy on 3/29.

I won't be one of those guys who will say that it has to be a Ford truck (although dang, that thing is awesome) - but I will say that you just don't have enough torque to do what you need to do when you get up into the 10,000lb plus campers. The experience with the 2010 gasser was so bad I might have given up camping altogether.

Hope this helps! By the way our test pull over 20 miles with the 2011 F250 and Alpine 3640RL averaged 13 mpg. That was with some hills even.

[BMcCutcheon]

I have a 2004 F250 with a 5.4L V8 with Airbags and a Superchip Kit installed. With the Superchip set for heavy towing my Outback 31KFW Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler pulls like a dream. Even when fully loaded (10.5K) I have had no problems. I have pulled non-stop from Atlanta -Dallas Tx 3 times with absolutely no issues. Even Atlanta-Bowling Green KY over the Mountains with no issues. Transmission Temps have never been exceeded even in the hottest weather. With the Superchip I'm getting 8 to 9 MPG when towing.

[Bigsky3625]

I will share our experience.
Bought a 28' TT (rated 1/2 ton towable at 5k pounds) Then traded in our 1997 Suburban gas 1/2 ton (too any miles and worked too hard pulling) for a 2011 Silverado 2500 Gasser. Pulled the trailer with ease.

If I would have done better homework we would have bought the 3500 Silverado diesel.

So guess what? Several months ago we did that to get our 5er.

Just a suggestion, think safety. Think torque and wear and tear.

Go bigger first. It is OK to have too much truck. It is not OK to not have enough.

Good luck

[a1albert]

If you can find a good Ford V10, it should do the job. If you shift it down and wind her up she will run with the big boys. I have a 06 chev diesle and my son has a 05 ford V10, some times I lead and some times he leads. My old ford 460 would pull ok if you shifted down but I did not like to listen to it wind. Back before the diesles all you had was the 454 and the 460 and they got the job done.

Albert

[Azdryheat]

Here's where I come from. I had a Ford 3/4 7.5L gasser and pulled a 24' boat that weighed 6,000#. Going up hills was a real strain and the speed going up 6% hills was 40-45 mph. Then I bought my Duramax. Same hills, same boat, but now I'm easily doing the 60 mph speed limit, with the cruise engaged, and not even thinking there's a boat back there.

Then I got my Everest, I've taken it up those same 6% hills as the boat and the Duramax, with the Everest behind, tows at 45mph. I used to get

To sum up: Duramax with 14,000# 5th wheel tows uphill at the same speed and effort as a Ford 7.5L gasser towing a 6,000# boat. I got 10 mpg towing my boat with my gas motor and 11 not towing and now get 10.5 mpg towing the Everest with the Diesel and 16 not towing. I wouldn't even consider towing my Everest with a gas motor. I might save a few bucks towing with gas but the brute power of the Diesel wins every time.

[tomsws6]

My brother in law pulls about 9k with his 2500 6.0. He seems to do ok but I think we all would rather have a diesel. Im pullin 9500 with my 6.0 max in my denali but it has 410's which do make a difference. Are you going to be pulling in hills or flatland?

[SAABDOCTOR]

rustymax. well see you started it now. yes bigger costs more diesel costs more the diesel fuel in some places cost more. Look at all the kenworths whites navistars macks volvo even some saabs (scania) if gas was the way to go we wouldn't be smellin diesel smoke (older stuff) the new stuff runs cleaner if you can swing the extra money and take care of it the engine will last a long time. JMHO and 5cents worth:D(inflation)

[rhagfo]

Hi, I not trying to push the Cummins Diesel on you. You may be a Ford /Chevy guy and that is OK.

What I do know is that Turbo Diesel Register has a 257 page buyers guide for you to read. This is a down loadable, pdf book for you to read. I believe this will answer all your questions on Diesel trucks. Here is the link, you do not have to be a member. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/magazines/buyersguide.phtml

One thing to remember is that a diesel engine, if maintain correctly will out last a gas engine by 100,000 miles. A Cummins should last to 300,000 miles until tear down and rebuild. I believe the ford and chevy diesel are in the 200,000 mile range before tear down and rebuild.
Jim W.

Sorry to say but the difference is more like 300,000 miles. The mean time to rebuild on a Cummins 5.9 is 350,000. That means that half get rebuilt before that and half after that. I think the 1st half is the hot rodders!!

rustymax. well see you started it now. yes bigger costs more diesel costs more the diesel fuel in some places cost more. Look at all the kenworths whites navistars macks volvo even some saabs (scania) if gas was the way to go we wouldn't be smellin diesel smoke (older stuff) the new stuff runs cleaner if you can swing the extra money and take care of it the engine will last a long time. JMHO and 5cents worth:D(inflation)

Yes Diesel fuel cost more, and some repairs are more costly, standard maintenance is about the same.

Think about this diesel cost about 10% to 15% more than regular gas, towing I get about 12 mpg, a big gasser gets 6 mpg that is 100% more miles per gallon that is cost savings right there.

That said Diesel is not for everyone! This is a decision you need to make based on research and your comfort level. Gas powered truck can pull even larger loads just fine, they will work harder on hills.
I am in the same boat as many ex-gassers, my F250 460 (7.5L) had a tough time with hills, my 01 Ram Cummins eats them, currently at 253,000 miles and go 7,500 miles on a dino oil change, and don't need to add oil between changes.

[SAABDOCTOR]

RUSTYMAX If you do go the diesel route the Ford 6.0 has had some crazy issues. with the wrong oil filters and you may have an issue withthe ficomthat runs the injectors. i don't work on many diesel trucks but my friends that work for ford say to stay away from that motor good luck"bouncey:

[Ruffus]

Well Rustymax, sounds like you have a lot to think about. I was a Dodge man for twenty years, always gas. For the last 20 years I've been a Ford man except for 6 months when I bought a Chevy. I pulled my first fifthwheel for 189,000 miles with a 1990 Ford Ranger 4.0 V6 including a trip from Colorado to Fairbanks Alaska and back. Got 15 MPG towing and never had a problem. The only Diesel ever owned is my current 06 F250 with a 6.0 Powerstroke. I pull a 38 foot Copper Canyon 360 QDS. I've had to replace the Turbo Charger, Head Gaskets, EGR Oil Cooler and valve and a few other things. It runs like a brand new truck now ($8,700's later luckly had an extended warranty) but I only get between 8 and 9.6 MPG. If your going to buy a Diesel take a good look at the Dodge. Cummings have been around forever. With gas being cheaper than diesel I'm really thinking about going back to gas since they get about the same MPG that I'm currently getting. Hey just my 2 cents worth.
:dizzy:

[rhagfo]

Well Rustymax, sounds like you have a lot to think about. I was a Dodge man for twenty years, always gas. For the last 20 years I've been a Ford man except for 6 months when I bought a Chevy. I pulled my first fifthwheel for 189,000 miles with a 1990 Ford Ranger 4.0 V6 including a trip from Colorado to Fairbanks Alaska and back. Got 15 MPG towing and never had a problem. The only Diesel ever owned is my current 06 F250 with a 6.0 Powerstroke. I pull a 38 foot Copper Canyon 360 QDS. I've had to replace the Turbo Charger, Head Gaskets, EGR Oil Cooler and valve and a few other things. It runs like a brand new truck now ($8,700's later luckly had an extended warranty) but I only get between 8 and 9.6 MPG. If your going to buy a Diesel take a good look at the Dodge. Cummings have been around forever. With gas being cheaper than diesel I'm really thinking about going back to gas since they get about the same MPG that I'm currently getting. Hey just my 2 cents worth.
:dizzy:
Well diesel may cost more than gas, but only about 10% to 15% more, and most diesels get far better fuel mileage empty, they really shine when towing, getting up to twice the mileage as a gas rig, that is something to think about.