921 Bulb to LED

[buzzcop63]

If your trailer is using the 921 Incandescent push in light bulbs here is a replacement that I have found and tried out this last week while camping. These LED run very cool and our converter did not come on the whole trip. With the incandescent lights you could hardly put your hands on the plastic covers on the lamps as they got so hot and the plug in for the base of the light turned brown on many of the light fixtures due to heat. I replaced all 20 inside lights, these bulbs come in packages of 10 each for $20.20, and I purchased two packs and got free shipping. What I ordered was 2 "GRV T10 921 194 24-3528 SMD LED Bulb Lamp Super Bright Warm White CD 12V Pack of 10 from Amazon. Also ran one light all night, still cool.

The first order our mail person delivered to another address by mistake and that order eventually was returned to Amazon. I called Amazon and told them that my order had been delivered by the US mail to the wrong address and Amazon gave me credit for the order, I re-ordered and they arrived in a few days. Great service!

[JRTJH]

Buzzcop,

If the LED's you bought are the ones in this link: http://www.amazon.com/GRV-24-3528-Super-Bright-White/dp/B00EKN8FXC/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428082360&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=GRV+T10+921+194+24-3528+SMD+LED+Bulb+Lamp+Super+Bright+Warm+White+CD+ 12V+Pack+of+10

They don't have a 12 volt regulator in them and when the converter is in "rapid charge" mode, supplying more than 13 VDC, the LED's are being overpowered. This could lead to burnout or overheating. Not to say that it "WILL" happen, but if you read the notes in the description, there is a note about using a power source greater than 13 volts.

I still have some "non regulated" LED's in my Cougar that I changed over from the Springdale. They are going on 6 years old and still working well, but who knows when they will start overheating and/or flickering from being "overpowered"......

Just keep an eye on them in the event that they do overheat.

As an example of what to look for: The LED's in this Amazon link do indicate that they are suitable for 12-28 VDC. They have the voltage regulator circuitry and won't overheat or burn out prematurely. The cost difference is about $4 for the pack of 10.
http://www.amazon.com/24-3528-Bulb-Super-Bright-White/dp/B00EDFM5QU/ref=pd_sbs_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1SBFWAE4VHF9GHK091J3

Hope this helps.

[glenalt]

Thanks, I'm thinking about ordering.

[mamawildbear]

Bookmarked John's link, thanks! How do I know what kind of lightbulbs I currently have in my camper and if these are compatible though?

[JRTJH]

Most 12 VDC incandescent bulbs INSIDE Keystone campers are 921 base bulbs. There are some other types in the flush ceiling lights and some of the pendant lights. To be sure what is installed, pull the bulb and look at it. There should be a bulb number on each individual bulb.

If they look like this picture, they are probably 921 bulbs and the type of LED fixture (socket) will look like this. Keep in mind that there are a number of different LED board layouts ranging from "pancake" to "cylindrical" to "wafer". The only part that is significant in "fitting the socket" is the type of base.

[buzzcop63]

JRTJH:
Thanks for bringing this up, saw the information at Amazon but of course Amazon did not make it as clear as you have. This is our fourth season camping and we have kept the two deep cell batteries at 90% charge or better and do not cold camp which would run the batteries down and when the converter would be attached to a power source it would be charging at max rate. Would not the converter fan be running when the unit is working at putting out a high rate of charge? If so this would give me some warning to watch my lights or have them off?

[JRTJH]

JRTJH:
Thanks for bringing this up, saw the information at Amazon but of course Amazon did not make it as clear as you have. This is our fourth season camping and we have kept the two deep cell batteries at 90% charge or better and do not cold camp which would run the batteries down and when the converter would be attached to a power source it would be charging at max rate. Would not the converter fan be running when the unit is working at putting out a high rate of charge? If so this would give me some warning to watch my lights or have them off?

I'll try to answer your questions in two parts since they are really separate situations.

First (blue), when you initially plug in the trailer (turn on the converter), the WFCO battery charger section will automatically go into "bulk charge mode" which delivers 14.4 VDC to the trailer DC system. Once the converter is "up and running" the monitor circuits measure the voltage in the batteries. After a maximum of 4 hours, or when the battery voltage indicates the batteries are charged to about 90%, it will adjust the charger to the "nominal charge mode" which is 13.6 VDC. When the monitor circuits detect battery voltage at the "fully charged level" (about 96%), the charger is adjusted to the "trickle charge mode" which is 13.2 VDC. As soon as you start turning on lights or other 12 volt items, the battery voltage will drop below the "trickle level" and the converter will revert to the "nominal charge mode" and supply 13.6 VDC to the trailer. So, in all charging modes and especially in the "load voltage mode" (13.6 VDC) the output of the WFCO converter is always at or above 13.2 VDC. The converter almost always operates in the 13.6 VDC range when you're camping and have a demand on the battery system. The only time it's in trickle charge mode is when there's no demand and the batteries are being "topped off".

Second (red), I think you're confusing voltage with amperage in this statement. As you increase the "LOAD" on the converter by turning on lights, running the furnace, etc, the amperage output will increase. That is what turns on the converter fan. The voltage being supplied is always constant at one of the three levels (13.2, 13.6 or 14.4 VDC) as described above and is independent from the amperage (load) requirement being demanded by the various lights, fans, etc which are running. The converter fan is linked to the "load" not the output voltage, so you can't reasonably listen to the fan and determine your voltage output. You can listen for the fan and determine your load output as it increases, in other words, as you turn on more lights, more demand, you can expect to hear the fan come on, but the voltage will not change based on that load.

I hope that helps more than confuses.....

Here's the link to the WFCO converter specs and manual: http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/UI/Power-Centers-WF-8955PEC.aspx?ptype=3&pid=9

It will describe the three modes of the charger, the nominal voltage supplied to the trailer DC wiring and the basic operation of the power center/converter/charger.

[buzzcop63]

JRTJH:
I feel like I just went back to school again and am very impressed. You explained the situation very well. My reason for posting the original message was that I had spent some time trying to read all the information in the Forum that I could find on what was the correct light color, Lums and bulb and where to buy. Also looked at the advertisements provided by the vendors and what all the people who had purchased the lights had to say about their use in their trailers. I waited until I had used them on a camping trip and felt that they were a good investment and wanted to supply the exact part number, vendor and cost so others would not have to do the research. Now I know that for an extra eight bucks I would have purchased the units with the 12-volt regulator built in. Just when you think you have figured out the problem you find that there is always more to learn! Thanks again for your answers, bet there is a lot of people reading your replies that are now making a more informed purchase!

[JRTJH]

Thank you for the very kind words and you're more than welcome. Sharing information is what makes us all "better and happier campers."

As for the 12 VDC vs 12-28 VDC LED's, as I said, I've got some unregulated LED's that I switched over from my Springdale and they are still "going strong" after 6 years. I wouldn't consider them "inferior" or "not trustworthy" they just are "different". About the only "issue" I've found with them is when the converter is in the "boost" mode, they do get much brighter and it's very noticeable that they start to flicker if the voltage stays at 14.4 VDC for over an hour or so. Otherwise, I can't tell the difference in them and the "high priced spread" I certainly wouldn't replace mine, they are working just fine for my purposes.

So, don't think you bought something that won't work. They will do just fine and other than being slightly less "reliable" than the regulated ones, you probably will trade your camper before they cause a problem.

Actually, if you stop and think about it, an automobile battery or a deep cycle battery "nominal output" when fully charged is 12.6 VDC. So, in reality, there's no way to use those LED's "by the book" in any automotive application.... That said, use what you've got, they'll do you good, but if you ever decide to replace them, look for the ones with regulators built in..... The key phrase is "12-28 VDC input".....

[HammerToe]

Just a suggestion:

I'm 'pretty darn sure' that way back in late 2011 when I first looked into and wound up replacing *all* the 921's in my 08 Cougar 291RLS, I deliberately stayed away from (voltage) regulated 921 LED replacements *BECAUSE* of widespread reports of the V-reg circuitry generating 'NOISE' that could affect radio (at least) and maybe even in some cases TV interference. (Most definitely, at east, the former).

I went with 'warm white' 36-3528 SMD (Surface Mount (PCB) 'Panels') with excellent results/no failures to date and no noise. Used to be that 6+ 921's on meant converter fan would come on; NOW 25-LED panels on simultaneously and NO FAN!

Measured Results: with 921s normalized to 100 lumens, my LEDs give 145 lumens @ 1/7th the current draw (measured) of 921s about 280ma vs. 1700-1800ma per bulb.

I agree that 'in theory' regulated LEDs might be better BUT, in practice (and so far), I've had no problems. They are cheap and easy to replace anyway if one should fail and (again) so far, none have.

By the way, 36 (etc.) 5050 and OTHER (even) brighter LED(s)/panels are now available BUT I wouldn't (worry about) go(ing) there. Mine are so bright that, in 'dual' fixtures, I'm planning on adding switches to allow me to run only one LED when I choose.

[jimmyv13]

I have been trying to convince the boss for years that we should switch over to LED's in our fixtures, but she's not having any of it. She does like the color of the light output. Even the warm white is considerably "whiter" than the incandescent bulb. I have explained the technical reason for moving to an LED, but she doesn't care.

[buzzcop63]

Jimmyv13:
Take off one of the light covers and have her look at the base of the light, heat will have darkened the plug, show her how hot the bulb is, fire danger! She might then go for LED's?

[Williston324]

Will be doing some dry camping this summer (Eldora Speedway) and bought these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261485199274

Trying them out now during our last few days in Florida. They have slightly less brightness but are fully acceptable and the price was right! They're only 12V but will be ok for what we need. Kept the old ones if we want them when plugged in.

[flubyu]

Let us know how you like those being a different style...thanks!

[wooby99]

I bought the same led bulbs from Ebay as Williston324 for my Cougar. I thought they were a little brighter, but the gave off the same color as the 921 bulbs. I also bought 1156 leds for the outside lights. We are very happy with them and never hear the convertor fan anymore.

[jimmyv13]

Jimmyv13:
Take off one of the light covers and have her look at the base of the light, heat will have darkened the plug, show her how hot the bulb is, fire danger! She might then go for LED's?

Fantastic idea, thanks!

[flubyu]

Thanks Wooby!

[jimmyv13]

I bought a pair of warm white, flat (like JRTJH posted) LED's from eBay a few years ago not knowing about the 12-28V thing.

[flubyu]

...and how are they working for you, Jimmy?

[jimmyv13]

They are working fine...I don't use them a lot though. I have them in the fixture above the rear chairs by the back window.

[dwayneb236]

Finally just ordered these LED for out trailer. Got the ok from the wife. Will be camping soon so looking forward to see how they work out.

Edit. Got the bulbs in this weekend. The difference is amazing. I was also shocked to see all the burn marks from the incandescent bulbs when I was changing them out. That's kinda scary.

Also, I remembered someone mentioning a procedure for installing the lights if they are giving you trouble. Just grab hold with needle nose pliers and push em in that way. I was not able to just push them in by hand so I tried this and it worked great. This is a pretty good forum sometimes. hehe..

[flubyu]

I also pulled the trigger, found some warm white flat style on ebay. Good deal too, paid $30 for 40 of them.

[billandjan]

I'm using a bunch of these:

http://www.ledtrailerlights.com/rv-interior-led-lights-T10-15FP.htm

[Comptech]

JRTJH,
You just ditto-ed my exact thought and situation with the current LED bulbs I am using too... I never really noticed the brightness though... I will have to look next time I hear the converter kick in... Mine have been in place for 3 years now and not one is bad...

Thank you for the very kind words and you're more than welcome. Sharing information is what makes us all "better and happier campers."

As for the 12 VDC vs 12-28 VDC LED's, as I said, I've got some unregulated LED's that I switched over from my Springdale and they are still "going strong" after 6 years. I wouldn't consider them "inferior" or "not trustworthy" they just are "different". About the only "issue" I've found with them is when the converter is in the "boost" mode, they do get much brighter and it's very noticeable that they start to flicker if the voltage stays at 14.4 VDC for over an hour or so. Otherwise, I can't tell the difference in them and the "high priced spread" I certainly wouldn't replace mine, they are working just fine for my purposes.

So, don't think you bought something that won't work. They will do just fine and other than being slightly less "reliable" than the regulated ones, you probably will trade your camper before they cause a problem.

Actually, if you stop and think about it, an automobile battery or a deep cycle battery "nominal output" when fully charged is 12.6 VDC. So, in reality, there's no way to use those LED's "by the book" in any automotive application.... That said, use what you've got, they'll do you good, but if you ever decide to replace them, look for the ones with regulators built in..... The key phrase is "12-28 VDC input".....