2015 Cougar XLite breaking news.....

[billb800si]

Wife & I toured a Cougar XLite 33RES yesterday and went away with a few questions. They were speedily answered by Keystone. Below are their answers:
----

Bill,
Thank you for your email and questions. Up until September of 2014 the Cougar X-Lites did have a ladder and Mor/Ryde CRE 300 suspension standard on there units. This last fall they wanted to bring the weight down on there X-Lite trailers and in order to do this they went away from the walkable roof (even though they still have the aluminum trusses 16" on center). Since they do not have a walkable roof anymore (same as all the ultra light weight trailers out in the market today) they did away with the rear ladder and it is not even backed anymore so a dealer cannot even put one on. They also did away with the Mor/Ryde CRE 300 suspension on there Cougar X-Lite trailers only. Fifth wheels will still have it. Sorry to give you all this bad news but what I would recommend is seeing if there may be a 33RES Cougar out there still that was built before the fall and it would still give you everything that you were looking for.
I hope that I was able to answer your questions for you and please let me know if i can be of any further assistance to you during your research process or help answer any other questions you may have as well. Thanks again for your interest in our Keystone Cougar X-Lite product.
Jason Clark
Keystone RV Company
Shoppers Konnection Division
Phone: (574) 535-1437
Email: [email protected]

[KanTC]

Thanks for sharing this info Bill. I'm sure (at some point) new buyers/owners will ask, and we'll have your post to refer to. ;)
"Shoppers Konnection Division"...?? I didn't even know it existed. :confused: Once again, "good to know" info!

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot :)

[Sherwood]

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

[BirchyBoy]

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

Passports don't have a walkable roof either. Or, at least mine doesn't. Get a ladder and STRETCH!

[JRTJH]

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

A ladder positioned alongside the RV and leaning over the roof is about the only way. As people demand that trailers get longer and also demand the ability to tow them with SUV's and half ton trucks, the manufacturers have to cut the weight somewhere. Removing roof ladders, making 3/8" roofs "suddenly become 1/4" roofs and replacing heavy weight suspension components with lighter weight "medium duty" parts, along with replacing 30 lb LP bottles with 20 lb bottles and going back to the "spring steel lump" mattresses and 3" foam cushions (rather than 5" foam) are all ways to "provide what sells." Nobody will confirm that it will "be comfortable, or last" just that it sells...................

It wasn't too many years ago that a 31' travel trailer was as long as you could buy, and 10,000+ pound GVW's were commonplace. Most of the RV's that length weighed in excess of 8500 pounds. Now a 31' "lightweight" weighs in at 5000 pounds or even less. That extra 3500 pounds (nearly 40% weight reduction) had to "disappear somehow".................

[Sherwood]

I totally get the idea of light weight trailers and the need to cut weight but if my roof cannot withstand my gently walking 195 pounds, that is scary flimsy. If that's the case, wouldn't they at least say something in the manuals to not walk on the roof while performing routine maintenance and caulk repairs?

[JRTJH]

I'd think they would at least mention it, but apparently they don't feel it's important enough ???

At least there are numerous posts in this forum urging caution or "flat out warning against" walking on the roofs of many models. There are also a number of recommendations and "work around" solutions that have been posted. So, who to blame? who to believe???

[BirchyBoy]

It's in the back of my mind that the 238ML has a sticker that says it isn't walkable. I'll have to check when I'm working on it this weekend.

[Sherwood]

I'd think they would at least mention it, but apparently they don't feel it's important enough ???

At least there are numerous posts in this forum urging caution or "flat out warning against" walking on the roofs of many models. There are also a number of recommendations and "work around" solutions that have been posted. So, who to blame? who to believe???
Thats what I love about this forum and why I frequent it so much.:)

[Hercules1978]

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.

[340_Formula_S]

I love my 2013 Cougar XLite 28RBS, but it sounds as though this may have been my first and last one. That walk on roof was part of what I wanted in a camper.

[billb800si]

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.
====================

Then apparently your unit was built before September of 2014 ( as the original post mentioned)...
All units coming out of the factory now will have 2016 registrations...
Happy trails,

[Sherwood]

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.
I don't have the ladder on mine. I read the manuals today and nowhere does it say not to walk on roof. It just says to clean roof and re-caulk if need be. I just looked into the vent after taking out the trim ring and seen I have 7/16" to 3'8" OSB on my roof. I suppose the next time I get up there I'll have a padded piece of plywood to put my weight on just in case.

[michael_h]

I weigh 276 pounds and I get on my 2013 Premier roof all the time to do repair/inspections . . . I just lay an extra piece of plywood under me and have a second handy if I need to move to a different location

[Marcusjolaine]

Bummer to hear no ladder and no walk on roof. My Outback didn't come with awnings over the slide outs and many times I have to climb up on the roof to sweep the slide outs off so the debris doesn't make it inside.

[Trailsport07]

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. :banghead: Keystone is really screwing things up here.

[Trailsport07]

I want a quality built product

[hankpage]

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. :banghead: Keystone is really screwing things up here.

Maybe I missed something somewhere but the OP was talking about a X-Lite trailer. To lighten a trailer so you can use a smaller TV you reduce weight. Lighter materials and less amenities. I would say Keystone hit the mark by offering light weight trailers and from what I see in campgrounds and on the highway, they are very popular. JM2¢, Hank

[Trailsport07]

No, First they did away with the Couger, and replaced it with the X lite. Now they are taking there flag ship trailer and making it even less value, BIG MISTAKE. Make ultra lights yes, but leave the heavier trailers alone for those who want a quality trailer. They have plenty of other models to play with, why ruin the Couger quality.

[JRTJH]

A ladder positioned alongside the RV and leaning over the roof is about the only way. As people demand that trailers get longer and also demand the ability to tow them with SUV's and half ton trucks, the manufacturers have to cut the weight somewhere. Removing roof ladders, making 3/8" roofs "suddenly become 1/4" roofs and replacing heavy weight suspension components with lighter weight "medium duty" parts, along with replacing 30 lb LP bottles with 20 lb bottles and going back to the "spring steel lump" mattresses and 3" foam cushions (rather than 5" foam) are all ways to "provide what sells." Nobody will confirm that it will "be comfortable, or last" just that it sells...................

It wasn't too many years ago that a 31' travel trailer was as long as you could buy, and 10,000+ pound GVW's were commonplace. Most of the RV's that length weighed in excess of 8500 pounds. Now a 31' "lightweight" weighs in at 5000 pounds or even less. That extra 3500 pounds (nearly 40% weight reduction) had to "disappear somehow".................

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. :banghead: Keystone is really screwing things up here.

I want a quality built product

Trailsport07,
At the risk of being "redundant", please reread my previous post in this thread. You simply can't have the same durability, quality of components and construction standards in a 10,000 pound trailer and in a 4500 pound trailer. Something has to be "cut" to reduce that much weight.

In today's mass produced, assembly line market, "quality" is defined as making the right cuts on the molding and using the "industry standard" building techniques. Quality does not necessarily mean that the line worker holds "EVERY" piece of molding in the exact spot when he "hits it with the staple gun". On "high end" models, those "gaps" are "carefully inspected" and "hand treated" to cover them, on mid line and low end (entry level) units, it's pretty much left to the dealer to satisfy the customer at the point of sale.

As for your expectation of getting a "quality RV" from the industry reports, Keystone is the leader in customer and dealer satisfaction, so even though there's always room to improve, not much of the competition can boast the successes that Keystone has achieved.

You make the comment that Keystone made a "BIG MISTAKE" by dropping the Cougar travel trailer and only offering the light weight models. Are you aware that in 2014, the first year that the Cougar travel trailer was not offered, Keystone sold more Cougar travel trailers than in any other year of their history? All of them were the "light weight" version.

Are you aware that currently Keystone can't build the Cougar Half Ton WE and the Cougar XLite travel trailers fast enough to keep up with the demand? Would you call it such a "BIG MISTAKE" that in September 2014, Keystone announced a $6 million investment in a new 120,000 square foot complex adjacent to their Goshen, IN facility that will be dedicated to the construction of ultra-light travel trailers. I wouldn't call that a "BIG MISTAKE" but rather a realignment of manufacturing to meet consumer demand.


As a comparison, if you really want a "traditional weight, luxury" travel trailer, Keystone does make the Carbon and Impact. If you want a "light weight"
trailer, there are a number of different models available.

Comparatively, the Carbon 33 is 35'5" long, empty weight is 8985, payload is 4015 for a GVW of 13000 pounds with a empty tongue weight is 1315. The Bullet 308BHS is 35'6" long, empty weight is 6160, payload is 1440 for a GVW of 7600 pounds with a empty tongue weight is 700. Or we could compare the Sprinter 311BHS, a "mid level full weight" that weighs 7967 empty, payload of 2683 for a GVW of 10650 and a empty tongue weight of 885.

Do you really expect to have all the features like thick mattresses, walkable roofs, equal insulation, same construction, same appliances, same "quality" in both trailers? If you do, then where would you think the weight could be eliminated? Oh let's not forget the $20,000 difference in price. The Sprinter is only about $12,000 more than the Bullet. Should they have the same "quality" and the same features?

Are you now looking at Keystones again? Last I heard, you were satisfied with your Jayco.

[Trailsport07]

Yes I am so far satisfied with my JAYCO. And what I'm getting at is they should have left it as people choice to buy the Couger or the light. And up till 2014 the couger had a walkable roof and better suspension. And yes quality is going to go down as they use cheaper lighter material. You cant say it wont. Couger was one of there better trailers now look what they did to it. You already have former owners saying its a deal breaker with no walk on roof. They are selling these new ones to people with no experience.

[Grbill]

Well I have experience and just bought a 2015 cougar xlite 26rbi with every option and couldn't be happier with the quality. After looking at every manufacturer for the last 2 years we found this trailer gave us the best bang for our buck. I got what I expected.

[JRTJH]

Yes I am so far satisfied with my JAYCO. And what I'm getting at is they should have left it as people choice to buy the Couger or the light. And up till 2014 the couger had a walkable roof and better suspension. And yes quality is going to go down as they use cheaper lighter material. You cant say it wont. Couger was one of there better trailers now look what they did to it. You already have former owners saying its a deal breaker with no walk on roof. They are selling these new ones to people with no experience.

Ford did away with the Crown Vic, Chevy with the Caprice, heck, GM completely dumped Pontiac and Oldsmobile, Ford dumped Mercury and Chrysler stopped making Plymouths. As the market changes so does the availability of models and brands. The point I was making is that Cougar sold more trailers than ever AFTER they stopped making the "full weight models". You have stated it incorrectly when you say, "Cougar WAS one of their better......" Cougar still IS one of their better trailers. Thousands will be sold this year and there are 10's of thousands on the road, almost all owned by "satisfied customers". As for "former owners saying it's a deal breaker, for every one of them, there are a hundred lined up ready to buy a Cougar. Not everyone likes vanilla, not everyone likes the "new Cougar" but then there are some still "fussing" about not being able to buy a Pontiac. To each his own, as the industry grinds on, without even a hic-cup.............

[Trailsport07]

I am not saying anything bad about any brand. If its a camper or travel trailer with wheels I like it. I am not tryig to cause a problem. Just when I was looking at my Eagle the Couger was built like it. Was a stuff choice to make. But now for me it would be easy. My Eagle has the walk on roof and more ride suspension. I just think Keystone should leave it as an option if you want all that. Or if you want a lighter version then order without. Most people new to trailers pro ally would not even think to ask if you can walk on the roof. I know the Couger is a beautiful trailer. I just don't want to see quality go down to save weight. Good luck with your new Couger. Hope you get years of service from it.

[JRTJH]

trailsport07,

Since you own a Jayco and are comparing it to the Cougar, have you thought to get on the Jayco forum and ask why they don't offer a "lighter weight" trailer without the walkable roof? Might cause some "stirrings in Jayco management" with your questions. I'm fairly well convinced that Keystone isn't listening to you (they don't monitor this forum), but thanks for your observations.

[Trailsport07]

I am not just comparing it just to Jayco, you started about my brand. Like I said I like allot of brands. But yes Jayco does have the strongest roof in the industry. And that is something they are proud of. Why would I ask about a non walkable roof, most owners want a walkable roof. However I did post this on the Jayco forum earlier today. I really don't care if keystone reads this or not. This is for camper owners and I'm telling my opinion. Again you started brand not me. The Couger to me when I looked at them represented stronger built higher quality. You are loosing some of that quality. They should make it a buyers choice. Not beingable to walk on the roof is a deal breaker for me regardless of brand. Tell me would you buy a non walkable roof trailer. Maintenance would be hard.

[JRTJH]

WHOA right there trailsport07. I didn't start about your brand, I stated that you don't even own a Keystone and that you own a Jayco. That's not "starting about your brand." You're certainly entitled to your opinon, but, since you don't own and haven't owned a Cougar, or any other Keystone product, your opinion is exactly that, an opinion. I wouldn't dream of going on the Jayco forum and telling them what's bad about their manufacturing process and I wouldn't think you're the expert who should be criticizing Keystone's manufacturing and marketing strategy on this forum.

As for Jayco, I've owned one. If you look at the long list of RV's that I have owned, you will find that there is only one Jayco on the list. There is a reason for that, it wasn't accidental. I'll leave it at that and suggest that you post your experiences with Cougar, not your suppositions based on owning a competitive product. I won't "bash" yours, don't you "bash" ours. Thanks

[Ken / Claudia]

My 40ft park trailer had a non walkable roof. I used 2 extra 2x3 pieces of light plywood with padding on one side. Put a ladder up to the side, climbed up and moved them around as I needed. I did not think is was a big deal. Padded side down and never hurt the roof.

[Trailsport07]

You just don't understand what I was getting at. I am done discussing it with you. By the way we did have a 2012 Keystone hornet for one summer. So yea we did own a Keystone product. I am not bashing keystone, If it were any other brand I would be saying the same thing. You just took in a different direction. Any way was nice chatting with you.

[Trailsport07]

Oh and never claimed to be an expert. Keystone can do what ever they want. Who cares. It should be buyers choice.

[Festus2]

Thanks to billb800si for bringing us the bulletin about the Cougar X Lite's roof. Good information to know if you have this model or are considering buying one.

Whether Keystone's decision to go that route is a "good or a bad" one only time will tell but we're not going to solve that here. Thanks to everybody for your input but it seems that the topic has become lost. Let's try to find a way back so we can get on track again. Thank you.

[Irving Ray]

I'm in the process of buying a 28 SGS with no ladder, humm , wrote Jason

The 2013 will be backed for a ladder. These changes did not go into affect until September of 2014 on our 2015 product.

Jason Clark
Keystone RV Company
Shoppers Konnection Division
Phone: (574) 535-1437
Email: [email protected]


Best guess is roof is safe to walk ? Also looking for a ladder , at least to hang my bike on . Thanks Bart"Irving Ray"

[Grbill]

Just installed a couple vent covers on our new 26rbi this morning, the roof feels surprisingly solid for a "non walkable". I was able to tell where the trusses are and kept my knees on them but unless this thread came along I wouldn't have thought not to go anywhere on it. My only disappointment is that it doesn't tell me anywhere in the owners manual wether it's walkable or not.

[cw3jason]

I had an ultra light from SOB. Same deal non walkable roof. I can tell you thru experience you can walk on a non walkable roof for maintenance. Just stay on the rafters or us plywood to span the gaps, both solutions have been stated in previous post. I was up on my roof sweeping off the slides before bringing them in and up reseal ing stuff twice a year. No issues, just use caution

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[KanTC]

Grbill,
The Owners Manual isn't specific to your RV... info is rather generic & covers all Keystone lines/models.

Please excuse the interuption everyone... ok, back to the roof discussion. ;)
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot :)

[sourdough]

I bought a 2014 Cougar High Country before they made the changes; has walkable roof, ladder, upgraded suspension etc. We liked it due to all the higher end features. We found right after we bought it that they discontinued them - some of the parts were already "discontinued". I was dismayed and visited with the GM of the dealership about it. His comments were: the high end travel trailers don't move very quick. When the price gets to 50-60k or so folks look at 5th wheels and other options, not a travel trailer. You got a super price on your trailer, right? (Yes I did). That's because we had to discount it a LOT because it wouldn't move.

These comments are to highlight the previous posts about moving away from the heavier, costly components in the old Cougar line to the xlite trailers :). Now.......back to the roof discussion - sorry for the off tangent remarks.

[tundraman67]

I have a 2012 Cougar XLite 29RES and was told by the dealer that I didn't get a ladder because the manufacturer didn't install the back plating for it. I asked if it could be done and was told yes but they would have to take the whole back off the trailer which would cost a lot of money. I asked them if the roof was still walkable, was told yes, then I asked why not put a ladder on a FW if you can walk on the roof - they couldn't come up with a good answer. I guess this was the start of making the change to not walking on the roof - lol. :D

[Newman252]

Somewhat old topic but I was looking through the owners manual before I pick up my new Cougar next week. Right in the area of roof maintenance is a highlighted bulletin that says unless your trailer comes from the factory with a ladder the roof is non-walkable. Bummer! I may be very new to RV's but I learned how important roof care is. How am I now supposed to check for cracks and such now? Wish I would have known that before. I don't think it would have been a deal breaker for me but up until this topic I thought all roofs were walkable and in fact it was encourages for maintain acne reasons. I surmise manufacturers will now use that as a selling point. "This beautiful brand x RV has a walkable roof that others don't do."


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[bill-e]

Newman252, dont let the roof sour you on an otherwise great trailer if you find one. The easiest solution is to go out and buy a piece of 2" think board insulation and cut it in half to make 2, 4' pieces. then use that to walk on your roof with. Works great, been up on mine a couple of times including to install and MAXAIR Deluxe fan and a Hard Start capacitor.

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[Newman252]

Thanks bill-e! I did ask the shop guy during our orientation about walking on the roof. He told me I could use a big ladder and lean or if I do walk or put weight on the roof to try to stay on the trusses. He says I should be able to see them a little if I look pretty good. He did tell me to be very careful though. I've seen others above say they used the board idea. Guess I'll just do that. Thanks for the input.

[Ozarkscamper]

We're about to order the 26rbi and just received a brochure dated Nov 2015 in the mail today direct from Keystone. Pg 9 of the brochure says "walkable roof" in a big circle and points to the roof. Haven't owned a Keystone for several years....sounds like we need to confirm the roof. If we can't walk on it, we'll stick with our Open Range.

[Festus2]

Have you tried contacting Keystone's Customer Service Dept? They have a toll free number (1-866-425-4369) or you can contact them via their website (www.keystonerv.com)

Your dealer may or may not be able to confirm this. If he says, "I think so."... I wouldn't accept this as confirmation.

Hopefully, some members who have that identical model will chime in and confirm whether or not the roof is walkable. If there is a ladder attached to the back, that is sometimes a clue about the walkability of the roof.

[bill-e]

Yes, the latest brochure says 3/8" walkable roof but honestly it doesnt matter much. My 26rbi does not have a walkable roof and I'm up there all the time. 230 lbs and I use 2 foot squares of 2" blue foam board insulation to move around. I've also just stood on the trusses in a pinch. I have a Amazon $99 Aluminum Telescopic Extension Ladder that I use to get up there and I use a 2 foot square piece of 1/2" plywood with the edges covered in duct tape as a landing spot but from there I move around with the foam board.

If I had a choice walkable is better but I would in no way let the lack of it deter me from my desired floorplan. I also use a cover and have had no issues installing or removing it.

[Pmedic4]

Even though I have a ladder on my 2012 model, I'm cautious about walking on the roof, but more concerned about just twisting my foot and tearing the roofing. I'm sure there are guys who would tell me the EPDM/TPO material is very tough, but seriously, they don't know the type of klutz I am, and yeah, I could do it.

So far, I've put off my roof cleaning and maintenance for this year, but will do it sometime here in the next month. Whatever, everyone just stay safe up there!

[theeyres]

I guess I just don't understand the controversy. Keystone is in the business of selling trailers. Period. If lightweight is what most people want then they will change the Cougar (and others) to provide that. End of story. If others want a heavier trailer then there will be many brands and models that provide that. Even if all manufacturers stopped building the old heavy weights, they are only responding to market demands. That's the way they stay in business.

Why do so many people moan and groan about the way it used to be? That's sort of like saying we should still be building houses with post and beam construction instead of balloon construction. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

[CaptnJohn]

Every TT, MH, and 5er I've owned had a walkable roof. I looked at lite 5ers and settled on a Cougar 303 RLS instead. If the roof were non-walkable it would make no difference to me. In my younger days I would have done it with caution. At 68 my roof climbing days are over so the dealer will do the annual inspection and cleaning. The lite models just did not have the features we wanted and did not seem as well built. So very happy with the Cougar 303RLS 5er!

[Ozarkscamper]

I did contact Keystone customer service. They said they beefed the roof on xlite back up in the 2016/2017 models and they were walkable again. Thanks for the tip about walking on the foam pads. Great idea!

[bill-e]

I did contact Keystone customer service. They said they beefed the roof on xlite back up in the 2016/2017 models and they were walkable again. Thanks for the tip about walking on the foam pads. Great idea!That's good news. With my 2007 camper I felt like I could jump on it but I'm not sure I'd feel that secure even with 3/8" plywood...doesn't seem very thick.

I installed a MaxxFan Deluxe in the bath...for 2 reasons. The built in fan is crap and with the arched roof we cant reach the switch so remote was needed. And I put the MaxxAir cover on the bedroom vent...in opaque black to block out the 4am sun in the morning.

By the way we really love the floorplan and I have not had a single issue with the exception of the outside speaker channel going bad but everything is nicely fit and finished.

[Marcuswillbe]

Bill,

I also love my 26RBI and my next purchase will be the black MaxxAir cover. As for the fan in the bathroom, I'm 6'5 so I'm ok but not my wife so the remote will be the other purchase.

Marc

[UsTwo]

Sitting at the campground this last weekend, wondering why I didn't have a ladder hanging off the back side of my Cougar Xlite, . now I know why.. no walkable roof.. OOps I have been up there twice now installing vent covers and a cyclone black tank vent cover. had no issues but then again I probably won't need to go back up there.. ill let the dealer do that when it comes time for roof inspection. thanks for all the answers on the subject..
Oh and I got the trlr for the floor plan..