difference between tongue/pin weight on a TT and FW

[b.d.keathley]

Why is it that a TT that weighs 10000Lbs has a supposed 10% tongue weight of 10000Lbs and a FW that weighs 10000Lbs has a pin weight of 1690 Lbs? What is the difference? It almost defeats the point of having a FW if the weight in the bed is heavier on a FW than a TT. The truck can pull the same weight but the issue I am having is why a FW has more weight in the bed. I am pretty much maxed out on the 05 chevy 2500 with all of the gear in it. Any info?

[b.d.keathley]

Correction the 10000Lb TT has a tongue weight of 1000Lbs

[chuckster57]

If you put 1000 pounds on the end of a tetter totter, how much weight do you have to put on the other end to balance the load?

Now put that 1000 pounds on the pivot point of the tetter totter, how much weight do you have to put on the other end to balance?

I may have the explanation all wrong, but that's how it was explained to me. Because of this, greater weights can be placed on the tow vehicle, and in turn allow for more cargo capacity in the trailer.

[b.d.keathley]

As opposed to the FW? So is it true that a FW that is the same length as a TT will have a greater pin weight that the TT tongue weight?

[theeyres]

Yes. That is the whole point. Semi's always pull a fiver--not a trailer. Why? Because all that weight over the axle makes a far better tow...no sway, no pull when big trucks pass you, more stable. The teeter totter is a good way to think about it.

[b.d.keathley]

I think I got you. I would agree that it is a good pull. So the other issue I have is that I can pull a rated 15300Lbs max. But the trailer im looking at moving up to is the Carbon 377 which weighs 13672Lbs which is fine, but the pin weight is 3385Lbs instead of my 333mks which has 1650Lbs. The Carbon pin weight is over the limit on the trucks payload of 2235Lbs. I guess the engine can pull it but the frame cannot handle.

[chuckster57]

Short answer: yes. More to it than just the frame. Rear axle, brakes and suspension.

[b.d.keathley]

Ive read guys on the forum say that the Chevy DRW 3500 has the same frame, axle, and leaf springs. With the exception that they have an extra bar between the frame that the SRW can add, and the extra tires. If so maybe an upgrade to a F550 or Dodge 5500 is needed.

[chuckster57]

What people "say" on Internet forums isn't always fact.

What is fact is, the sticker on the drivers door defines the limits. Age old argument " I added air bags", my buddy the service writer at the local dealership "looked it up" doesn't mean a thing when your standing in front of a jury explaining how you lost control and "accidentally" killed a family.

There are a few of us on this forum that have written until our fingers hurt about knowing the limits of your TV, and following them. Some listen some don't, I guess I'll continue to write in hopes that at least one person "gets it" and makes the right decision.

[b.d.keathley]

Gottcha!! Id rather be safe>

[Way Of Life]

Ive read guys on the forum say that the Chevy DRW 3500 has the same frame, axle, and leaf springs. With the exception that they have an extra bar between the frame that the SRW can add, and the extra tires. If so maybe an upgrade to a F550 or Dodge 5500 is needed.

No need to move to the 550 or 5500 series truck. You are far more limited because of the age of your 3/4 ton truck than most of the newer trucks on the market. An increase in 5 years newer gains substantial increase and ability to handle the toy hauler you may want. Do your research. ....Check the numbers.....and remember.....bigger is not always better.

[chuckster57]

I agree. These new 350/3500 DRW trucks can carry a lot of weight.

[b.d.keathley]

Maybe it was answered already but im missing it. Is there a reason a comparable FW and TT in size and weight have different front weights? What makes a FW heavier in the front? Looking at the XLR Thunderbolt and the Carbon of same size and weight, the XLR has 1000Lb lighter pin weight than the Carbon. Why?? I just don't get the variations with FW's. Bottom line, why do FW's have heavier front weights?

[GaryWT]

On the 5th wheel you have a certain percentage of the camper over the truck which is all weight vs just having the ball on the hitch. The trailer weighs more than just stuff stored in the front of a trailer.

[JRTJH]

Possibly, your question should be, "What makes travel trailer tongue weight so much lighter than a comparable fifth wheel pin weight?"

To answer that, think of where a fifth wheel is attached to the truck: Just forward of "directly over" the center of the rear axle. Because of the placement of the weight over the load carrying rear axle, the fifth wheel application allows for heavy load placement which allows for maximum ability to control the trailer "tracking characteristics".

In contrast, a travel trailer is attached somewhere around 36" behind the center of the rear axle. Because of this, the trailer must be more carefully "balanced" on its axles as the truck is not capable of supporting as much of the trailer load that far behind the axle. This causes the trailer to be "inherently less stable" and the hitch engineering usually includes the application of one of several types of "sway control" to help with trailer tracking.

Optimally, the placement of the fifth wheel pin directly over the axle and the weight balance of the trailer provides for much better stability than a comparable sized travel trailer.

Hope that helps, at least a little.

[b.d.keathley]

Yes to GaryWT and JRTJH. That answers my question exactly. And to Chuckster and way of life good info on future "newer trucks".

[goducks]

The reason a 5th has more weight on the pin is because there's 100's of lbs of steel up there for the frame. A TT has very little in metal for the tongue compared to what is needed for the overhang on a 5th wheel.

Same frame for both from the tongue/pin back. 5th wheels are inherently built heavier up front so that translates to a heavier pin from the get go. That ratio is kept because it's in the design. You can't build a 5th wheel with 15-25% pin weight then lower it to 10%. It will screw up the geometry.

[b.d.keathley]

Makin sense Goducks Ty