Pull a Fuzion 371 with an F250?

[pg_rider]

Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?

[C130]

I just walked in the door from the Houston RV show and that is a nice toy hauler! RV show was huge and they had a huge selection with several new Fuzions.

I'd say the F250 would definitely be over weight with that trailer but I'd say 3/4 of the toy haulers I see on the road are pulled by F250's or the equivalent and are way overloaded. I pull a 2011 Fuzion 322 Touring Edition and just traded trucks to a dually. My F250 pulled the 322TE great but rear axle weight is where my issue was and my pin weight was quite a bit less than 3000. Problem I had the only time I ever had it weighed was I didn't have much weight in the garage and no fuel/water in the rear tanks which would have put me close to being within weight limits I think.

Based on my personal experience, I have always said since I bought the Fuzion 322 I'd never go any bigger than what I have unless I upgraded my truck. The F250 will pull the 40 foot trailers fine, same engine and transmission, but there are others factors also. Legality is one but I'd bet 80% of the toy haulers being pulled are illegal so unless you run over someone doubt that would ever be an issue. I have numerous friends pulling 40 foot toy haulers with F250's but personally I would not do it. F350/3500 trucks gets you a little more weight but nothing beats the dually weight capacity wise. No doubt dually is also the safest but can also be a pain as a daily driver. I just got mine so I'm brand new to the dually scene so still excited to drive it. Hopefully I'll keep enjoying it as a daily driver, haven't pulled the trailer yet with it.

[ri_truck_guy]

I pull my 371 with a Ram 3500 dually. Can't say enough about the extra stability of a dually.

[Locowrench]

So many times folks go into a dealer looking at those great big trailers. Salesman says so what are you pulling it with? Oh I have a 3/4 ton this or that brand of pickup. Oh yes that truck will handle anything on our lot!! I heard it when I was shopping for mine. The one thing that always gets me is that sure it will pull it, down the flat level road or freeway. Now put that same outfit on a long pass like the Blue Mountains of Eastern Oregon or the Rockies and the tables are turned immensely. The longevity of that pickup just went south. Ive always been one to "Over Build" anything I did. If it were me, I wouldn't be even thinking about one that big without a 450 or better setting in the driveway. I have a friend that pulls a 42 foot Voltage with a 450 now because it would have made short work of his 350.

[jim09s]

I have a Fuzion 331 which I pulled with an 09 F250 diesel. After a couple of trips I didn't feel it was enough truck for it based on the pin weight. It pulled just fine and rode well since the truck was air bagged. Stopping it wasn't too bad but was concerned if I ever had to stomp on the binders I wouldn't get it stopped in time. So I upgraded to a 2015 F450. Wow! What a difference. Pulls, stops, rides, everything is so much better. Now I am confident in starting and stopping the Fuzion even when fully loaded. Getting used to a dually isn't a big deal. So if you have to ask yourself if you have enough truck to "safely" pull your trailer, then you probably already know the answer.....no. Better safe than sorry and a heck of a lot less stressful on everyone and everything.

[jmblakecwi]

I pull a Fuzion 375 44' with a F350 Diesel single wheel long bed. the truck pulls it fine and i have not had any feeling of it not being stable or thinking i needed a dualie. it does sit the rear end down about 2in but I put on a set of air bags to level it out. it actually pulls it better than my old 35' bumper pull.

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum :wlcm:

People use all kinds of vehicles to tow all kinds of trailers. With that said, can you tow a big TH with a 3/4 ton truck? Yeah probably, but is it safe and legal?

There are too many threads to count on this subject, and you'll get answers from both ends of the spectrum. Do some searching here on the subject and then draw your own conclusion.

[pawpaw]

Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?

As far as pulling the trailer the F-250 with the 6.7 my son in law has is fine. In my opinion the F-250 with a 6K pound axle is overloaded with the 371's pin weight. In addition we had to put on a Reese sidewinder pin box extension to gain clearance on the 6-3/4' bed. Already tapped the corner of the cab going up an incline. Air bags leveled the rear but in my opinion a F-350 dually may be in the future. Hate to give up my F-150 as my daily driver and end up with a dually!

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=3323

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=3321

[pawpaw]

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=628&pictureid=3321

Front view...the truck pulls it OK but I don't think it's safe. Truck is rated to haul 15,200 lbs. so we've been keeping the weight down on what we load in the trailer.

[JRTJH]

Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?

There are 6 different weight ratings that need to be followed: GVW, PAYLOAD, MAX TRAILER WEIGHT, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR. Some people "cheat" by saying, "As long as you don't overload the axles, you're "legal". The auto manufacturers say, "ALL ratings must be observed."

People who say they are "under" on maximum trailer weight often don't take into consideration the GCWR (gross combined weight rating). As the payload is increased, the maximum trailer weight is reduced. Imagine if the GCWR is 20000 lbs and the GVW is 10000 lbs. Assuming the truck weighs 7000 lbs, that would mean the maximum trailer weight would be 13000 lbs. As cargo/passengers are added to the truck, the weight goes up. Assuming the cargo/passenger load is 2000 lbs, then the truck weight would be 9000 lbs and the maximum trailer weight is reduced to 11000 lbs (to stay under the 20K GCWR. So, the maximum trailer weight is not a "stationery number" but rather is affected by the truck weight.

Some people "justify" their trailer weight by considering that it remains at 13000, they add cargo/passengers and consider "only" the rear axle loading and "justify" their heavy trailer load by saying the rear axle is 200 pounds under the maximum. They ignore the other 5 ratings and "head to the campground".

Thinking "I'm under my max on rear axle weight, and the trailer only weighs 12500 pounds, so I'm under my max trailer weight, while hitching a 9000 pound truck to a 12500 trailer puts the entire rig overweight by 1500 pounds even though the rear axle is "OK". Considering that the pin weight of the trailer will be added to the payload, the GVW will likely also be over the maximum. So, "justifying" the rig's weight by considering the rear axle is "under" is "cheating the system".

I'd urge you to look at all the ratings, consider that they are all "inter-related" and none of them should be ignored or "minimized".

ADDED: When you consider that the F250, F350 SRW and F350DRW trucks share the same 6.7L diesel, 6 speed transmission and rear axle ratio (3.73) the "ability to drag a trailer" is pretty much the same with all models of the truck. They all will "tow" a heavy trailer, get it up to speed, maintain that speed in similar towing conditions, and even get essentially the same fuel mileage. The "rub" comes when the truck/trailer combinations roll onto a scale and are weighed. There is a significant difference in GVW between the trucks, and that translates to significantly larger payload, GCWR, RAWR and FAWR. That means the GCWR is also significantly increased with the heavier trucks and the ability to add cargo/passengers as well as pin weight increases dramatically while maintaining the maximum trailer weight while staying under the GCWR.

I've heard (and it's printed throughout this forum), "My truck tows my trailer without any problem". This "added comment" hopefully will identify the reason for that comment. All of the trucks have the same "HP and Torque" so they should tow the same load. The problem comes in carrying the load and handling the load in adverse conditions. That's where an adequate tow vehicle "shines" and an overloaded tow vehicle can potentially put all the occupants in serious jeopardy.

[GaryWT]

If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.

[pawpaw]

If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.

Ideal tow vehicle would be a F-350 dually 8 ft bed. You really don't gain that much with a F-350 SRW except a 7K pound axle and an 8 ft bed option. I'm in the same boat deciding on whether to upgrade to a F-350 DRW or not.

[chuckster57]

Having towed with both an SRW and a DRW, I can say duallies are the way to go.

[JRTJH]

If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.

Most F250's have a payload of 2500 - 2800 pounds depending on accessories and luxuries added at the factory. Most F350 SRW crew cab short bed (the popular model) trucks list a payload of 2700 - 3200 pounds.

As pawpaw said, you really don't gain that much with a F350 SRW. GVW increases from 10000 to 11500 (in most models) but the truck weight goes up by several hundred pounds which reduces the gain substantially. The 8' bed is available on the F250, F350 SRW and the F350 DRW.

[pawpaw]

It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.

[JRTJH]

It's much the same in Michigan. IF (and it's hard to find) IF you can find a 2011 or newer diesel F350 SRW or DRW, it will either be "beat" and have 100K + miles or it will cost as much as a new one (when you deduct the factory incentives). So, pretty much, I've come to the conclusion that it is more "cost effective" to just order what you want and "argue loudly" with the dealer to save as much as you can.

I haven't seen a 13, 14 or 15 model with less than 25K miles that sat on a dealer lot long enough for me to find it and drive to it..... Now, there are a couple of 4x2 models, but up here, a 2 wheel drive won't make it out of the garage half the year......

I was hoping that with the decreasing gas prices and diesel staying about $1 more per gallon that the "demand for diesel trucks" would decrease, but it seems that even with the big gap in fuel pricing, people still want diesels.

[KanTC]

.....I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs.....

pg_rider,

It's not a huge difference, but you must have looked at the wrong column for the pin weight. The 371 was added for 2014, and these are from the Keystone website:

2015 Fuzion 371, Hitch 3,015 lbs

2014 Fuzion 371, Hitch 3,110 lbs

Remember, that's *empty* pin/hitch weight, and also does not include the weight of ANY options/upgrades.

Disclaimer [Jan 2015]: "Weights: Keystone has listed the approximate base weight of the trailer without the optional equipment included. Optional equipment will impact the weight of the trailer. Please consult Keystone's web site for standard specifications for each floorplan, including standard trailer weights. Please also locate the weight sticker inside of the trailer for the most accurate trailer weight." http://www.keystonerv.com/disclaimer

And last but not least, welcome to the forum.
Terri, the Chevy co-pilot :)

[dave-g]

the dry weight of that trailer is 13,000 lbs- thats over the 250 rating. fill the water tank and add stuff you be at 15-16 k fast.

I have a cougar 325srx- 9600 empty- loaded carefully - 13,250. I now travel with water tank near empty if I can.

[Wing-in-it]

the dry weight of that trailer is 13,000 lbs- thats over the 250 rating. fill the water tank and add stuff you be at 15-16 k fast.

I have a cougar 325srx- 9600 empty- loaded carefully - 13,250. I now travel with water tank near empty if I can.

Daggone, you have over 3,600 lbs of stuff you cart around?

Even with my Goldwing loaded up, I don't pull an extra 2,400 lbs.

[C130]

Here's my worthless opinion. It is legal? No, but thousands of people yearly are pulling accident free with this combo. The huge majority of 5th wheel toy haulers are pulled by F250's or the equivalent, at least from what I see on the road and I see a lot of toy haulers at the motocross races. I've never known it to be an issue either as far as safety and I think the accident record speaks the same results. It's like all the other traffic laws; no one obeys them. Drive 70 mph down the interstate and you'll get run over by half the drivers, no one uses a turn signal, then the whole texting/driving issue. Personally, I'd take the roads with a cautious driver and F-250/toy hauler combo over a texting while driving idiot or someone driving 80 mph switching lanes without a turn signal. I don't think many drivers in Texas even know what a turn signal is for, better yet they don't even know they have one. We all know an F-250 or equivalent will pull the toy haulers fine. I think we all know a dually will do it safer, with more stability, and legally, but the fact is most will not go out and buy a dually. It's just not practical as a daily driver for most people.

I'm not saying it's okay by any means but if RV sales were based on "legal" tow vehicles only the RV business would probably be out of business. RV sales people are a huge part of the problem because they need to sell the RV's and they make their living by selling them. I looked at a lot of new toy haulers before I bought mine and every sales person told me I could pull anything they had at with my F-250.

JRTJH did an excellent job explaining the issues, thanks. Problem is, RV towing requires no training and majority of people towing have no idea what any of this means. They may look at their vehicles "tow capacity" but that's all they go by and they never, ever visit a forum like this to educate themselves.

[Javi]

It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.

I got over having to have all the gewgaws on a truck a long time ago. Butt warmers and leather seats ain't worth $20K to me.

You can get a well equipped XL dually, CC, diesel F350 for just under $40K if you look around. It won't have leather and a butt warmer but it will have all the necessary stuff like power windows and door locks, mirrors, brake controller, 5th wheel prep package, tilt steering, and CD player..

[C130]

It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.


Exactly, I looked at used trucks for a couple of months back when I bought my new F-250. Insane resale values and the hotshot business around here is crazy and I did not want one of those trucks. I gave up and bought new, did the same last week when I traded my F-250.

Ford has some good deals on the 2015 Super Duties right now. I got my 2015 F-450 $11,000 off MSRP and I got $34,000 for my 2011 F-250 which I was pretty happy with. F-250 had 72,000 miles, tires about 75% worn, brakes needing replaced next service, along with coolant flush due next service. I figured if I was going to trade I'd better do it now, otherwise I was going to spend another $2,000 minimum on the truck and not get any more money for it.

[GaryWT]

Most F250's have a payload of 2500 - 2800 pounds depending on accessories and luxuries added at the factory. Most F350 SRW crew cab short bed (the popular model) trucks list a payload of 2700 - 3200 pounds.

As pawpaw said, you really don't gain that much with a F350 SRW. GVW increases from 10000 to 11500 (in most models) but the truck weight goes up by several hundred pounds which reduces the gain substantially. The 8' bed is available on the F250, F350 SRW and the F350 DRW.

My 350 has a payload of just over 3,800 and the few 250's they had on the lot had payloads of 3,200. Mine is a SRW.

[RVdawg]

Here is my $.02 worth.....As you can see by my sig I pulled my 342 (similar in size and weight to 371) with a SRW Ram 3500 4.10 with bags. Truck pulled fine and stopped fine with exhaust brake. However, I felt and knew the truck was overloaded so upgraded to F350 DRW. I have seen all the posts regarding DRW is the best etc, etc......and now I know how true those posts are. It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight.

FWIW the DRW is my daily driver and I drive 25-30k per year. Took me a month or so to get used to it, but now it is second nature. My wife feels comfortable driving it as well.

[JRTJH]

My 350 has a payload of just over 3,800 and the few 250's they had on the lot had payloads of 3,200. Mine is a SRW.

Gary,

Your truck, like mine is a gas model. The 6.2L gas engine weighs about 500 pounds less than a diesel. I did fail to state in my post that I was discussing diesel engine tow vehicles, but the entire post has been directed toward that point of view. If you had elected a diesel engine, your payload would have dropped approximately 500 pounds. If you note your maximum trailer weight, it is 12,100 pounds, with the diesel, that goes up to 15,900 in the same model/chassis.

Here is one "recent model" Super Duty F250 CC payload sticker posted by a member. Another member stated that his F350 SRW barely has 3000 pounds of payload remaining with a full fuel tank and his passenger/cargo load.

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3656&d=1374164580

Here is my $.02 worth.....As you can see by my sig I pulled my 342 (similar in size and weight to 371) with a SRW Ram 3500 4.10 with bags. Truck pulled fine and stopped fine with exhaust brake. However, I felt and knew the truck was overloaded so upgraded to F350 DRW. I have seen all the posts regarding DRW is the best etc, etc......and now I know how true those posts are. It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight.
FWIW the DRW is my daily driver and I drive 25-30k per year. Took me a month or so to get used to it, but now it is second nature. My wife feels comfortable driving it as well.

The part of RVdawg's post that is in red is so true. All of us, (well, except for the fortune tellers among us) simply don't know what we don't know (so to speak). Like the "first time RV buyer with the under-rated tow vehicle. Driving it off the lot, he quickly learns that what he is "experiencing" in towability is "normal"..... so, to him, with nothing to compare, he will undoubtedly say, "My rig tows great" even if it is the "most unstable rig to leave the dealer's lot that day or that week". We simply don't know what we haven't yet experienced. We can "read about it on a forum" all day long, but until it 'sits us in the driver's seat" we can't compare "stable towing" to what we "think" is stable towing.

I experienced the same thing with my Springdale fifth wheel. Towing it behind my F150, I felt I had a "stable, good towing rig". Once I had the opportunity to hitch that trailer to my F250, I knew I'd been "fooling myself" about how great it towed. I experienced much more stable towing, better handling, better "towability" than I thought was possible. Reading through the posts on this forum, I have read post after post of members who have upgraded their tow vehicle and without exception, they all say the same thing. Yet we still have members with the question, "Can my truck tow this trailer?" and we still have people with their "one rig experience" who say, "I'm doing it and it tows just fine." Not being critical, but I have to ask myself, "Compared to what?" RVdawg, like myself and many others who have upgraded have the "luxury" of comparing previous tow vehicle performance to current tow vehicle performance. The comments he makes, "It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight." come from having been in the driver's seat of both vehicles. That's an honest and factual comparison, not a "speculation"..... :)

[C130]

I've yet to meet or hear one person that switched to a DRW truck regret it and every single person told me if you pull your trailer with a DRW truck you'll never go back to a SRW.

I'll never forget a couple years ago when an F-250 pulls in to a motocross race and parks in the spot next to me. It was pulling the largest toy hauler I have ever seen to this date, unbelievable. Custom ordered and built, full body paint, thing was insane. I know it was at least 43 feet long, maybe 45. He had a fairly large Razor and several dirt bikes in the garage. An older guy I knew walked over to the owner and asked him how the F-250 pulled that toy hauler and the owner said great, why? The older guy told him he was full of crap and basically he was an idiot for pulling a $100,000 plus toy hauler with an F-250. It was an older one also so I know the tow capacity was even less than the new ones. It was pretty funny and the guy seemed clueless.

[gilpinbrewer]

Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?

:wlcm:

Pg_rider, I am here in Colorado too and have a 371. I pull it with a 12 F350 Dually with the 6.7. The pin is heavy on this rig and once you fill your basement storage in the front it gets heavier. I would not consider anything but a dually for this rig. The stability pulling in the mountains is a very reassuring thing.

[Quad]

Gary,



Your truck, like mine is a gas model. The 6.2L gas engine weighs about 500 pounds less than a diesel. I did fail to state in my post that I was discussing diesel engine tow vehicles, but the entire post has been directed toward that point of view. If you had elected a diesel engine, your payload would have dropped approximately 500 pounds. If you note your maximum trailer weight, it is 12,100 pounds, with the diesel, that goes up to 15,900 in the same model/chassis.



Here is one "recent model" Super Duty F250 CC payload sticker posted by a member. Another member stated that his F350 SRW barely has 3000 pounds of payload remaining with a full fuel tank and his passenger/cargo load.



http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3656&d=1374164580







The part of RVdawg's post that is in red is so true. All of us, (well, except for the fortune tellers among us) simply don't know what we don't know (so to speak). Like the "first time RV buyer with the under-rated tow vehicle. Driving it off the lot, he quickly learns that what he is "experiencing" in towability is "normal"..... so, to him, with nothing to compare, he will undoubtedly say, "My rig tows great" even if it is the "most unstable rig to leave the dealer's lot that day or that week". We simply don't know what we haven't yet experienced. We can "read about it on a forum" all day long, but until it 'sits us in the driver's seat" we can't compare "stable towing" to what we "think" is stable towing.



I experienced the same thing with my Springdale fifth wheel. Towing it behind my F150, I felt I had a "stable, good towing rig". Once I had the opportunity to hitch that trailer to my F250, I knew I'd been "fooling myself" about how great it towed. I experienced much more stable towing, better handling, better "towability" than I thought was possible. Reading through the posts on this forum, I have read post after post of members who have upgraded their tow vehicle and without exception, they all say the same thing. Yet we still have members with the question, "Can my truck tow this trailer?" and we still have people with their "one rig experience" who say, "I'm doing it and it tows just fine." Not being critical, but I have to ask myself, "Compared to what?" RVdawg, like myself and many others who have upgraded have the "luxury" of comparing previous tow vehicle performance to current tow vehicle performance. The comments he makes, "It is night and day difference with a unit of this size and weight." come from having been in the driver's seat of both vehicles. That's an honest and factual comparison, not a "speculation"..... :)


JRTJH this an the other post has to be one of the best most thought out posts ever. Very honest and true. Hopefully people will heed the advice and better prepare themselves. It's so true that the more truck makes a difference in towing experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pawpaw]

I got over having to have all the gewgaws on a truck a long time ago. Butt warmers and leather seats ain't worth $20K to me.

You can get a well equipped XL dually, CC, diesel F350 for just under $40K if you look around. It won't have leather and a butt warmer but it will have all the necessary stuff like power windows and door locks, mirrors, brake controller, 5th wheel prep package, tilt steering, and CD player..

You're absolutely correct Javi. Same engine and tranny in the XL as the King Ranch but without all the bell's and whistles! If I can find a nice XL or XLT with the 6.7 I may go that route. Even in the country where I'm at all the DRW truck's are the high end ones. Rubber floors and vinyl or cloth seats don't bother me!! :D

[pawpaw]

Exactly, I looked at used trucks for a couple of months back when I bought my new F-250. Insane resale values and the hotshot business around here is crazy and I did not want one of those trucks. I gave up and bought new, did the same last week when I traded my F-250.

Ford has some good deals on the 2015 Super Duties right now. I got my 2015 F-450 $11,000 off MSRP and I got $34,000 for my 2011 F-250 which I was pretty happy with. F-250 had 72,000 miles, tires about 75% worn, brakes needing replaced next service, along with coolant flush due next service. I figured if I was going to trade I'd better do it now, otherwise I was going to spend another $2,000 minimum on the truck and not get any more money for it.

What kind of fuel mileage do you get around town with the 450...I'm guessing you have the 4.30's and is it a 4x4. Empty around town I'm guessing 12-14 mpg...hwy around 16-17?

[pg_rider]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and comprehensive responses! And as expected, they cover the entire spectrum of opinion! :D

I have no question that a DRW truck is the ideal solution. However, I just don't see that fitting into my plans due to practicality (daily driver, fitting in the garage, etc) and cost of ownership. So, that means either stepping down to a considerably smaller toyhauler, or sticking with something like the 371 and going with a 3500-class SRW truck. And of course, nobody wants to downgrade to a lesser camper... :)

FWIW I'm currently pulling a trailer that is very close to my truck's limits (I have a Ridgeline -- don't laugh). I have to say, after three years of towing all over the Rockies, I've had not one regret. Stability is incredible even in the wind, braking is strong, engine and suspension are still going strong at 110,000 miles... I only every think about the limits when I'm pulling up Monarch Pass and dropping down to ~35mph. lol

So perhaps I have a skewed perspective but I probably tend to lean towards the "just enough" truck mentality. That said, I don't think a 2500-class truck is the best option for me which is why I'm primarily looking at 3500s. Can anyone state what the 3500 buys you over the 2500? Same engine obviously, but what about brakes? Rear suspension I believe is slightly beefier if I recall correctly, but what does that do for the tow/payload ratings?

[Festus2]

pg_rider --

Your question about the 250 vs 350 has been previously discussed here at great lengths.

I would recommend that you go to this link to find a thread started by Povo back in October -- it goes on for 7 pages.

http://keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15066&highlight=F250+F350

You might just find the answer to your question in this thread and the 7 pages of posts that follow. The comments and recommendations made back in October are probably the same as what would appear on the forum today so there wouldn't be much in the way of any new information.

[C130]

What kind of fuel mileage do you get around town with the 450...I'm guessing you have the 4.30's and is it a 4x4. Empty around town I'm guessing 12-14 mpg...hwy around 16-17?

I haven't had it long enough to find out yet but I'm sure it won't be as good as my F250. I reset the computer yesterday coming back from the RV show in Houston and averaged 19 on the way home. I drive mostly from my house to the Houston airport and averaged 19-20 mph consistently in my F250. I go back to work Monday so will get a good idea next week on gas mileage as I'll be driving it daily and same route I've done a thousand times. The 450 does have the 4.3 gearing. Weird part is it rides much better than my F250 which had air bags and ruined the ride when I had them installed.

[gtsum2]

the current lineup of newer SRW 3500 trucks have a good amount of payload. I have a 2014 Ram 3500 Laramie SRW with every option available and my payload is 4074lbs. That is with a megacab also...the crew cabs have a bit more. I ordered this truck for an "average size hauler)...38ft...with max gvwr of 16500 and a wet and ready to camp pin weight of 3000-3300lbs give or take...all that being said, the Fuzion's tend to be a bit heavier on the pin than other haulers and I would not tow the 371 with my truck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[pawpaw]

Well it look's like the wife booked 3 night's for us at the Grand Isle State Park next weekend. Guess they're not as interested in the Mardi Gras parades as I thought! Only 60 miles away so it's a short little ride and right on the Gulf. We'll give the F-250 a little workout in the process. :D

[pawpaw]

I haven't had it long enough to find out yet but I'm sure it won't be as good as my F250. I reset the computer yesterday coming back from the RV show in Houston and averaged 19 on the way home. I drive mostly from my house to the Houston airport and averaged 19-20 mph consistently in my F250. I go back to work Monday so will get a good idea next week on gas mileage as I'll be driving it daily and same route I've done a thousand times. The 450 does have the 4.3 gearing. Weird part is it rides much better than my F250 which had air bags and ruined the ride when I had them installed.

Good to know the 450 rides fairly smooth empty. Son in law has the airlift bags on his 250 and it rides smooth to me, so it surprises me that your's rode rough.

[C130]

Good to know the 450 rides fairly smooth empty. Son in law has the airlift bags on his 250 and it rides smooth to me, so it surprises me that your's rode rough.

Same here, I never figured it out. It was fine driving down the interstate but if you hit a bump it was terrible. Just driving through a parking lot and rolling over a speed bump would about toss your head to the ceiling. I'm not sure they didn't install something wrong, everyone told me it should ride smoother but that was not the case at all. It was fine pulling the trailer, just rode like crap empty.

[dpcrf450]

I still don't understand the discussion whether a certain size truck can pull this or that. The key metric is always payload capacity. A 250-350 srw simply does not allow for the payload of most modern 38ft plus toy hauler 3000-3500lbs typically. With Gas, passenger, hitch, anything else, you will legally be exceeding the trucks payload. Just check ford or dodge specs. You can absolutely toy regardless, but if you have any trouble you will be 100% liable. It is straight math.

When I loaded the 342 on to my new Ford 450, the suspension dropped significantly. I ended up putting on wireless airbags to level/adjust the ride.

When I was buying my 342 I watched a guy leave the rv dealer in a new ford 250 towing a fuzion 395 with the bed pinned to the bumper stops (meaning no suspension left). Sure, he can make it work, but it will be a interesting discussion in a court room determining liability if an accident happens.

[C130]

I pulled a Fuzion 322 with my F-250 and that's only a 35 foot toy hauler, pin weight around 2800 if I recall. I also installed airbags to keep it level and it didn't sag much at all, maybe and inch or two. The first time I realized for sure I wanted more truck was on the way to a motocross race with just me and my son in the truck. Nice wide highway and I was running about 60 and the road evidently had some dips in it. My rear suspension was bottoming out big time and I got in to an oscillation that got my attention real quick. Luckily it stopped but lasted for several seconds but scared the crap out of me. That only happened one time but one time was enough. Otherwise the F-250 pulled the 322 great but I never was impressed with the brakes on the F-250.

I'll try and find the weights from the one time I had it weighed an post them to give people an idea. The F-250 has zero business pulling anything over 37-38 feet and that's pushing it. Paperwork I have with my Fuzion 322 shows hitch weight of 2445 though I think I read somewhere else it's more than that which may be more like the number I quoted above. Maybe the difference being between the 322 and the 322 Touring Edition which I have. Empty weight of 11,870, cargo capacity of 4165. The 2011 F-250 towing capacity is 14,400 with a Rear GAWR of 6100 pounds and GVWR of 10,000. The 2011 F-250 is 1600 pounds over just on the tow capacity if the toy hauler is full. The 2015 F-250 is still over by 900 pounds and this is not a big toy hauler.

The 2015 F-250 tow capacity went up to 15,100 and the F-350 SRW is 15,700. The 2015 F-350 DRW is around 24,000 pounds, big difference. The 2015 F-450 has a GVWR 14,000 and Rear GAWR 9100 . The F-450 has a tow capacity of 31,200 but limited to 26,500 for 5th wheel towing due to max capacity of the 5th wheel hitch.

[FusionFZ371]

I pulled my 371 over 2000 miles last year on the west coast, mostly fully loaded somewhere a bit north of 15000 lbs. If all the roads were smooth and flat there wouldn't be any problems. Unfortunately they all are not. This kind of load requires a great deal of responsibility.

Due to this forum and my concern for the safety of myself as well as others we are going to update to a DRW. Headed for Kellogg Idaho tomorrow. :)

[Festus2]

Due to this forum and my concern for the safety of myself as well as others we are going to update to a DRW. Headed for Kellogg Idaho tomorrow. :)


Would you, by any chance, be headed to Dave Smith Motors? ;)

[pg_rider]

Well, things happened quickly on Saturday and I ended up with a 2010 Ford F-350! Still on the fence about which 5th wheel we'll end up with. I'm definitely in favor of stepping down in weight. The Heartland Torque 325 has a very similar floorplan as the Fuzion 371, but is significantly lighter. I'm very surprised how much heavier the Fuzions are than a lot of the other rigs out there.

Here's the new hauler (that's my toy Ridgeline next to it :) )

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_159773_0_dfd2a649b0a52706b591c92c8992db12.jpg

[Desert185]

Would you, by any chance, be headed to Dave Smith Motors? ;)

You beat me to it!

[pmcmath]

No offense to you ford guys but I pull my 371 with my 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500 with no issues what so ever. Have been up and down mountains and everywhere. My axle weight however is at 3700 lbs and the towing capacity with the gear ratio is close to 20k. Not sure about stability because again I havent had an issue. Sure the dually might work better but for all around purpose issues the 2500 works well.

[chuckster57]

Axle weight or King pin ?

Stability isn't the issue, being over the limits based on the door sticker is. I see lots of 3/4 ton SRW trucks hitched up to monster trailers. Is it legal and safe??

[pmcmath]

Axle weight or King pin ?

Stability isn't the issue, being over the limits based on the door sticker is. I see lots of 3/4 ton SRW trucks hitched up to monster trailers. Is it legal and safe??

My total capacity on bed weight is 3700 and I am at 3000 leaving 700lb difference. The total shipping weight was 13k and some change....total weight golf cart etc im guessing 15k and some change. With a 3.73 gear I can tow 17k and some change. I have driven tractor trailers in my past short distance and this is nothing compared to that. Again I am not having any issues on flat ground nor climbing mountains here in Virginia. No doubt around town in very different but once up to speed on interstate you dont even notice it back there till you check your mirrors.

[C130]

My total capacity on bed weight is 3700 and I am at 3000 leaving 700lb difference. The total shipping weight was 13k and some change....total weight golf cart etc im guessing 15k and some change. With a 3.73 gear I can tow 17k and some change. I have driven tractor trailers in my past short distance and this is nothing compared to that. Again I am not having any issues on flat ground nor climbing mountains here in Virginia. No doubt around town in very different but once up to speed on interstate you dont even notice it back there till you check your mirrors.


As has been said before, the F250's and equivalent trucks will tow them just fine, just not legally. People can justify it all they want, it's either legal or not legal and it's that simple. I'd bet if you weighed your 371 the rear axle would be over by a lot but I may be wrong. I know I was very surprised when I had my F250 weighed. Two kids, wife, 5th wheel hitch, small tool box, it adds up real quick. Hundreds, if not thousands, are towing big 5th wheels daily and doing it safely (no accidents). I don't think it's an issue at all with law enforcement and probably will not be an issue unless there's an accident and a lawyer involved. I'm not judging at all, just stating a fact.

I know the one time I had mine weighed I couldn't believe it, I was shocked. I was well under my tow capacity but not my rear axle weight and for me that's the one I'm probably most concerned about as that's where the big trouble is going to start. Dually's can definitely be a pain in the butt as I just traded for one and sure aren't for everyone. I actually don't even see the purpose of buying an F250 over an F350 for most people. Basically the same price and you get more tow capacity with the F350/3500. As soon as I bought my F250 I was wondering why I didn't get an F350 but at the time I was clueless.

[chuckster57]

If your rear axle rating is 3700 pounds, weigh your truck without the trailer and get an actual weight with the fuel tank full and hitch installed. Then add the 3000 King pin, I'm thinking your over the 3700 pounds.

[FusionFZ371]

Would you, by any chance, be headed to Dave Smith Motors?

What??? :confused:

I just went over for the gondola ride by the Guest House Inn. :p But there wasn't any snow so I ended up picking up a truck while I was there. "bouncey: Guess I shouldn't have used the word Safe when talking about the 2500. Should have used the words, comfortable and pucker factor, :)


I can't remember if it was stated here or not but the dry pin weight on the 371 is a fuzz over 3100. Total dry weight 13580.

[pawpaw]

Well, things happened quickly on Saturday and I ended up with a 2010 Ford F-350! Still on the fence about which 5th wheel we'll end up with. I'm definitely in favor of stepping down in weight. The Heartland Torque 325 has a very similar floorplan as the Fuzion 371, but is significantly lighter. I'm very surprised how much heavier the Fuzions are than a lot of the other rigs out there.

Here's the new hauler (that's my toy Ridgeline next to it :) )

http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_160089_0_dfd2a649b0a52706b591c92c8992db12.jpg

Nice looking F-350...kind of dwarfs the Honda! :D

[pmcmath]

If your rear axle rating is 3700 pounds, weigh your truck without the trailer and get an actual weight with the fuel tank full and hitch installed. Then add the 3000 King pin, I'm thinking your over the 3700 pounds.

2015 Chevy 2500 HD Diesel with 3.73 gears.
Shipping weight on my 371 was 13540 and the hitch is 3110. That leaves me with 3560lbs of play. Dont see a ton and and half of gear with a family of three. Golf cart only weighs 960 lbs....dont see another ton plus of gear.

Rear axle gross is 6200 lbs
Front is 5200 lbs
Max 5th Wheel Trailering, 3.73 Rear Axle 17100 lbs
Max GVWR is 10000lbs

Not over weight and not illegal as mentioned above in another post. Also reference to axle weights length between axles also come into play when it involves scales etc.

[C130]

My 2011 F250 had a rear GAWR of 6100 pounds, 100 less than you, and I was several hundred pounds (as in 500-600 if I remember correctly) overloaded on my rear axle when I had it weighed. I did not have much weight in the garage so that would have helped some but my hitch weight (around 2600) is much less that yours. If your GVWR is only 10,000 pounds, same as my F250, I'd bet money you're over that also. I'm not trying to argue at all but I'd bet money you are overloaded if you get it weighed. I know I was overloaded at times on axle weight and GVWR I'm sure. I'm not familiar with the Chevy 2500 but assume it's close to the F250 which I am familiar with and the F250 runs out of weight real quick, much quicker than most people realize. I learned the hard way and didn't know any better but the good thing is I was able to use that as an excuse for my new truck.

Now, we do keep our toy hauler furnished with dishes, pots and pans, etc. but that isn't a lot of weight. If one already has the truck I understand but buying new I see no reason to get an F250/2500 series truck if planning to pull a 5th wheel toy hauler of any type. Same price as the F350/3500 and more tow capacity.

[SmittysRV]

As has been said before, the F250's and equivalent trucks will tow them just fine, just not legally. People can justify it all they want, it's either legal or not legal and it's that simple. I'd bet if you weighed your 371 the rear axle would be over by a lot but I may be wrong. I know I was very surprised when I had my F250 weighed. Two kids, wife, 5th wheel hitch, small tool box, it adds up real quick. Hundreds, if not thousands, are towing big 5th wheels daily and doing it safely (no accidents). I don't think it's an issue at all with law enforcement and probably will not be an issue unless there's an accident and a lawyer involved. I'm not judging at all, just stating a fact.

I know the one time I had mine weighed I couldn't believe it, I was shocked. I was well under my tow capacity but not my rear axle weight and for me that's the one I'm probably most concerned about as that's where the big trouble is going to start. Dually's can definitely be a pain in the butt as I just traded for one and sure aren't for everyone. I actually don't even see the purpose of buying an F250 over an F350 for most people. Basically the same price and you get more tow capacity with the F350/3500. As soon as I bought my F250 I was wondering why I didn't get an F350 but at the time I was clueless.

I wonder what the registration issues are with the new F450 here in Cali?? I went through the same issues a few years ago when we stepped up to a large triple axel 5th wheel toy hauler. I had a 2002 F350 CC LB but the dealer wouldn't let me pull it off the lot... I was like "What!!!" Long story short I got it home and towed it on our first (and last trip) to the river. This trip was pretty empty as all our winter desert toys (4 dirt bikes and XP4 RZR) were not loaded. The Ol 2002 7.3 pulled it fine but I could sure tell I was over the limit of the truck when it got windy and I had to stop... I could bite off a new payment on a new dually at the time so I found a super clean 2006 F550 completely set up (Full bullet proofed 6.0) for towing with only 28K miles on it. I snatched it up and it has been great!!! I do toss the idea of selling or trading it for a new F450 for all the new nice amenities these new trucks offer. I had a heck of a time registering and insuring this F550 and I wonder if the new F450 would be the same? Either way it was well worth it knowing that the truck is set up and well capable of what I am towing….

Here was before...........
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_160200_0_3fbf2d7d4da9b4b7c550170ef980f9b4.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/smittys62/media/Raptor%204014/92583427.jpg.html)
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_160200_1_378131d75fe9260de149d9490d48ee36.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/smittys62/media/Raptor%204014/3563eb83.jpg.html)

Here we are now.................
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_160200_2_bae4717fa76edf9f8182ea22366eaee2.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/smittys62/media/Raptor%204014/A69792DC-501C-4FB2-BD8B-43F93E2AF2E3-1101-0000008DE429F500_zpse88703c8.jpg.html)
http://www.keystoneforums.com/attachments/photobucket/img_160200_3_ee5c2fdefb2599fc08c1f8aeba47488e.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/smittys62/media/Raptor%204014/E838795F-DAE9-46A3-9127-0037483D8FD7_zpsiw6prhdr.jpg.html)

[C130]

That is a nice looking rig and nice truck! The 6.0 is a great motor if re-studded or whatever they do to it from everything I've heard.

So far I have had zero issues with the F450 as far as insurance or registration. Matter of fact, dealer just called and said my plates and registration just arrived. I have USAA for insurance and just went online and changed it from my F250 to the F450. It wasn't much difference in price, slightly higher. I pulled the toy hauler yesterday and the biggest thing I noticed was the brakes are much, much better than my F250. I drove to Galveston and had to deal with a lot of Houston traffic and road construction. It sucked big time and trying now to figure out which way to come back home Sunday. I'm thinking a lot of tolls but avoid the construction and heavy traffic hopefully. I took a toll road yesterday part of the way then hit tons of traffic in the middle of the day. Impressed with the truck though.

[SmittysRV]

That is a nice looking rig and nice truck! The 6.0 is a great motor if re-studded or whatever they do to it from everything I've heard.

So far I have had zero issues with the F450 as far as insurance or registration. Matter of fact, dealer just called and said my plates and registration just arrived. I have USAA for insurance and just went online and changed it from my F250 to the F450. It wasn't much difference in price, slightly higher. I pulled the toy hauler yesterday and the biggest thing I noticed was the brakes are much, much better than my F250. I drove to Galveston and had to deal with a lot of Houston traffic and road construction. It sucked big time and trying now to figure out which way to come back home Sunday. I'm thinking a lot of tolls but avoid the construction and heavy traffic hopefully. I took a toll road yesterday part of the way then hit tons of traffic in the middle of the day. Impressed with the truck though.

Yes My F550 6.0 is studded and has all the other ($9K :eek:) stuff for bullet proofing. It does pull solid and is a very stable truck to say the least. I went with the Link Ultra Ride rear suspension which makes the ride great! I would love the power of the 6.7 though as I am not the fastest up the grades around here and with the 4.88 rear it makes freeway trips in the slow lane even when not pullin :banghead: I think the biggest issue for my truck was the fact that it came from the factory as a Chassis Cab 2 ton commercial truck. Having a custom bed put on and having DMV re classified it was a lot of leg work so I could add the truck to my current AAA insurance. Its all good now :rolleyes:

[pawpaw]

That is a nice looking rig and nice truck! The 6.0 is a great motor if re-studded or whatever they do to it from everything I've heard.

So far I have had zero issues with the F450 as far as insurance or registration. Matter of fact, dealer just called and said my plates and registration just arrived. I have USAA for insurance and just went online and changed it from my F250 to the F450. It wasn't much difference in price, slightly higher. I pulled the toy hauler yesterday and the biggest thing I noticed was the brakes are much, much better than my F250. I drove to Galveston and had to deal with a lot of Houston traffic and road construction. It sucked big time and trying now to figure out which way to come back home Sunday. I'm thinking a lot of tolls but avoid the construction and heavy traffic hopefully. I took a toll road yesterday part of the way then hit tons of traffic in the middle of the day. Impressed with the truck though.

My nephew is camping in Galveston right now...He's always down there! We're getting ready to head to the Gulf right now at the state park.

[C130]

We're staying at a brand new RV park, Galveston Island RV Resort. It's a few miles past Jamaica Beach RV Park which looks packed! This place we're staying at just opened a couple of weeks ago and isn't finished but the concrete pads are very big, I think 60 feet long with full hookups. We are happy with it and will probably come back. The only drawback is it's a ways out from the main area of Galveston but for some maybe that's a plus. Anyways, I'm right where you pull in, Fuzion 322TE and right next to a huge Voltage toy hauler if you're nearby.

[KanTC]

This thread has definitely migrated off-topic :D... OP's question was: "Pull a Fuzion 371 with an F250?"

Thanks ;)

[gtsum2]

Just came back from the RV show and I was in several Fuzions. I liked the 331, but the dry weight per yellow sticker was 13600...slap another 1000lbs for camping gear and another 1500lbs for atv's and up to 16100 before any water, etc. No to mention Fuzion's claimed pin weights seem to be a little heavier than other brands...I have a 2014 Ram 3500 SRW with payload of 4074lbs....I believe I would be over my payload with this rig...let alone a 371....let alone a 3/4 ton. Good luck to you

[sourdough]

2015 Chevy 2500 HD Diesel with 3.73 gears.
Shipping weight on my 371 was 13540 and the hitch is 3110. That leaves me with 3560lbs of play. Dont see a ton and and half of gear with a family of three. Golf cart only weighs 960 lbs....dont see another ton plus of gear.

Rear axle gross is 6200 lbs
Front is 5200 lbs
Max 5th Wheel Trailering, 3.73 Rear Axle 17100 lbs
Max GVWR is 10000lbs

Not over weight and not illegal as mentioned above in another post. Also reference to axle weights length between axles also come into play when it involves scales etc.










pcmath

Not trying to beat a dead horse to death but here are some facts from what I can find for your situation:


*Max. 5th wheel trlr weight that can be pulled= 17,100lbs
*Actual trlr (estimated) - 13, 540 (dry)+960 (golf cart)+ contents (1000
minimum estimated)= 15500 (close but not over max trlr wgt) OR
*Actual trlr (dry) - 13,540 + payload@ 3560? = 17100 *This maxes your maximum towing rating. (You will be closer to the max than what you think)


GCWR = 24,500
*Truck = 7384lbs. + Payload = 2793 *Total truck = 10177
*Trlr - Estimated 15500 (low number) Truck+trlr = 25677 (over GCWR) OR
*Trlr + listed payload (not estimated ) = 13540 + 3560? = 17100 trlr wgt.

In this scenario Total truck = 10,177 + total trlr @ 17100 = 27277 vs max. GCWR of 24500 = overweight by 2777lbs.

As indicated above your GCWR is going to be over no matter what you do unless you don't put much of anything in the RV.

Now payload:

*Max payload of truck = 2793 (2015 Chevy 2500 diesel 4x4 - chevy tow guide)
*Hitch weight = 3110
*Max payload of listed truck 2793 with hitch weight of 3110 = 317 overweight before you add anything (5th wheel hitch, people, etc. etc.)

You will be over your payload by a substantial margin by the time you load the trailer, people in the truck, tools, etc.

Your quote:
"Not over weight and not illegal as mentioned above in another post" appears to possibly be a mistake and you may need to look more closely at some of the parameters that are measured.

**Chevy info posted is from Chevy towing site and for regular cab 4x4. Truck configuration was not listed. Payload increases for a double cab, standard bed by approx. 300lbs but truck is still limited to 10000 GVW and towing specs/GCVW do not change.

[SmittysRV]

This thread has definitely migrated off-topic :D... OP's question was: "Pull a Fuzion 371 with an F250?"

Thanks ;)

Looks like the 2015 Fuzion 371 is 13240 dry and can carry 3260 so its maxed out at 16500. What year F250 are we talking about? The GVWR and GCWR vary greatly between years.

[Cnc_hemi]

That is the max on my 2012 GMC Sierra 2500. So my guess a new f250 is close to that. I pull a Fuzion 310. But wouldn't push it any more with a larger camper. If mine was larger or heavier I would go DW. Just to be safe. Just my opinion. My truck handles it fine. But any heavier and it would be out my rated limits. I have a neighbor that has a 39' road warrior and he has swapped trucks 3 times in the last year looking for a truck that he likes his best was a DW 3500 he says. ( he works for a dealer ) lol. But he said he is going back to the DW full time. Handles it the best. My guess you 371 is not much diff in weight.


LSU TIGER FAN
2013 FUZION 310
2012 GMC 2500 HD SIERRA DURAMAX 6.6L

[Bman916]

I was in the same boat. Have a 2014 Ram 2500 6.7L and was getting the Carbon 357.. about the same weight of the 371. I have a 25000 max GCVR and can pull 17,200 according to RAM

I upgraded my tires to the BFG LT A/T, each have a load rating of 3640lbs and put on a set of air bags. Pulls just fine with a load.

I also just had to get my Class A CDL because it was over 15k. Took my truck and 357 to the DMV for the drive test and inspection...... everyone said I was illegal with my 2500 on here, but the DMV says I'm legal so I am siding with the DMV who issued me my non commercial class A.

That said.... I'll be upgrading my next truck to a 3500 with a 4:10 SWD

[sourdough]

Bman916 - not to nitpick but I think the folks on here were right. Payload on a 2014 Ram 2500 6.7 crew cab 4x4 is 2291lbs. Hitch weight on a Carbon 357 is 3060lbs before you put anything in it....or in the truck. Don't know what the DMV was looking at but it certainly wasn't that.

[Bman916]

Bman916 - not to nitpick but I think the folks on here were right. Payload on a 2014 Ram 2500 6.7 crew cab 4x4 is 2291lbs. Hitch weight on a Carbon 357 is 3060lbs before you put anything in it....or in the truck. Don't know what the DMV was looking at but it certainly wasn't that.

Well, not like the DMV really knows what they are doing....

[JRTJH]

As tax dollars get more scarce and RV's get bigger, it's only a matter of time before the state law enforcement authorities realize the "cash cow" they have available for the "easy picking". Once they do, I'm betting there will be a lot of fifth wheels and travel trailers sitting on the side of interstates waiting for a wrecker to tow them to an impound lot. Just thinking out loud, an officer could, in 10 minutes, easily write $500 in fines and call a wrecker to make even more money for the impound lot. That's $2500 an hour with a 10 minute break for the officer. In an 8 hour day, one officer could enhance the state revenue by a significant sum. The "time and equipment" investment would provide money for the state treasury to help offset some of the current expenses and help balance the state budget. Heck, with training, that same officer could drive a snowplow during the winter months when RV's are less prevalent on the highways.

Nobody can "fudge" nearly 1000 pounds above the payload sticker on the door and "claim": "But officer, the guy at DMV told me I was legal."

In the 50's, states realized they could "regulate commercial traffic" and collect significant "highway dollars" by doing so. The time is coming when private traffic is regulated much the same way. When that happens, all the commentary on this and other forums will fall on the "I told you so" ears of those who weren't listening.

Until then, "run with the elephants"

[SmittysRV]

As tax dollars get more scarce and RV's get bigger, it's only a matter of time before the state law enforcement authorities realize the "cash cow" they have available for the "easy picking". Once they do, I'm betting there will be a lot of fifth wheels and travel trailers sitting on the side of interstates waiting for a wrecker to tow them to an impound lot. Just thinking out loud, an officer could, in 10 minutes, easily write $500 in fines and call a wrecker to make even more money for the impound lot. That's $2500 an hour with a 10 minute break for the officer. In an 8 hour day, one officer could enhance the state revenue by a significant sum. The "time and equipment" investment would provide money for the state treasury to help offset some of the current expenses and help balance the state budget. Heck, with training, that same officer could drive a snowplow during the winter months when RV's are less prevalent on the highways.

Nobody can "fudge" nearly 1000 pounds above the payload sticker on the door and "claim": "But officer, the guy at DMV told me I was legal."

In the 50's, states realized they could "regulate commercial traffic" and collect significant "highway dollars" by doing so. The time is coming when private traffic is regulated much the same way. When that happens, all the commentary on this and other forums will fall on the "I told you so" ears of those who weren't listening.

Until then, "run with the elephants"

Exactly why I got a F550 to Tow my triple axle toy hauler.....

BMan916, how was the Class A non commercial test? Was it a written and a driving? What exactly do they want to you to show them you can do, back up and make turns? There is no way I could get my Truck and trailer into the DMV lot by me...Just curious. Thx!!

[Bman916]

As tax dollars get more scarce and RV's get bigger, it's only a matter of time before the state law enforcement authorities realize the "cash cow" they have available for the "easy picking". Once they do, I'm betting there will be a lot of fifth wheels and travel trailers sitting on the side of interstates waiting for a wrecker to tow them to an impound lot. Just thinking out loud, an officer could, in 10 minutes, easily write $500 in fines and call a wrecker to make even more money for the impound lot. That's $2500 an hour with a 10 minute break for the officer. In an 8 hour day, one officer could enhance the state revenue by a significant sum. The "time and equipment" investment would provide money for the state treasury to help offset some of the current expenses and help balance the state budget. Heck, with training, that same officer could drive a snowplow during the winter months when RV's are less prevalent on the highways.

Nobody can "fudge" nearly 1000 pounds above the payload sticker on the door and "claim": "But officer, the guy at DMV told me I was legal."

In the 50's, states realized they could "regulate commercial traffic" and collect significant "highway dollars" by doing so. The time is coming when private traffic is regulated much the same way. When that happens, all the commentary on this and other forums will fall on the "I told you so" ears of those who weren't listening.

Until then, "run with the elephants"

Actually, was going to tell them " my dog ate my sticker" or that's what I should have said when I was pulled over a few weeks ago by CHP for a break light out on the new TH. He said I need a Non Commercial Class A. He was in the CHP pick up commercial truck and said nothing about my pin weight. He just looked at the gross of the trailer and asked if I knew I needed a class A... and gave me a fix it ticket to get the class A

Look, the 3500 same year and make has a payload of 4,290. The only difference from that truck and mine is the suspension. My brother in law is a shop foreman for a ram dealer and he pulled my vin and checked the rear end, axle and drive train against the 3500. He of course could not put it on paper that I am okay, but with a set of Firestone air bags I'd be set....

Wow, folks really get spun up talking about towing

[Bman916]

Exactly why I got a F550 to Tow my triple axle toy hauler.....

BMan916, how was the Class A non commercial test? Was it a written and a driving? What exactly do they want to you to show them you can do, back up and make turns? There is no way I could get my Truck and trailer into the DMV lot by me...Just curious. Thx!!


The CDL road test is at a DMV CDL location with a huge parking lot. Don't take your rig to the DMV for the written test...

[JRTJH]

Actually, was going to tell them " my dog ate my sticker" or that's what I should have said when I was pulled over a few weeks ago by CHP for a break light out on the new TH. He said I need a Non Commercial Class A. He was in the CHP pick up commercial truck and said nothing about my pin weight. He just looked at the gross of the trailer and asked if I knew I needed a class A... and gave me a fix it ticket to get the class A

Look, the 3500 same year and make has a payload of 4,290. The only difference from that truck and mine is the suspension. My brother in law is a shop foreman for a ram dealer and he pulled my vin and checked the rear end, axle and drive train against the 3500. He of course could not put it on paper that I am okay, but with a set of Firestone air bags I'd be set....

Wow, folks really get spun up talking about towing

I don't know that it's "folks get spun up" as much as it is "folks get off on bragging about being illegal" .... We are all supposed to be responsible for what we do and how we use the public highways. We "fuss" when someone cuts us off without using a blinker, when they are speeding and driving recklessly and we have to avoid their actions, and then we smile when we pass them and law enforcement has them stopped... Is there really a difference in violating the weight limits of a vehicle and breaking any other law?

If I were running a rig that was 30+% overweight, I don't think I'd be bragging about it on a public forum. If you should happen to have the unfortunate situation of being involved in an accident and the "damaged person's lawyer" should stumble upon this site and read your posts, I wonder how much weight they would carry in a civil suit?

And, no, your truck isn't the same as a 3500. If it were, it would have the same sticker on the door. Just sayin......

[Bman916]

I don't know that it's "folks get spun up" as much as it is "folks get off on bragging about being illegal" .... We are all supposed to be responsible for what we do and how we use the public highways. We "fuss" when someone cuts us off without using a blinker, when they are speeding and driving recklessly and we have to avoid their actions, and then we smile when we pass them and law enforcement has them stopped... Is there really a difference in violating the weight limits of a vehicle and breaking any other law?

If I were running a rig that was 30+% overweight, I don't think I'd be bragging about it on a public forum. If you should happen to have the unfortunate situation of being involved in an accident and the "damaged person's lawyer" should stumble upon this site and read your posts, I wonder how much weight they would carry in a civil suit?

And, no, your truck isn't the same as a 3500. If it were, it would have the same sticker on the door. Just sayin......


hmm. not really bragging about anything. Just disagree with you is all.

[JRTJH]

This thread has gone on for 7 pages now. A member sent me a PM during posts on page 1 saying he thought it was useless to try to convince those who don't get it. People who own the trailer in question have stated that they believe their 3/4 ton truck is overloaded when towing this trailer. Others have stated the payloads, GVW, GCWR and axle ratings and commented on how it's impossible to stay within the design limits of the truck. If you "don't get it" and still disagree with the reality that your truck is overloaded, then you'll likely not get it in the next pages either. That's not my limitation so I'm simply going to bow out gracefully and wish you best of luck and safe travels.

[C130]

One very simple way to verify if legal or not; get it weighed. Anyone want to bet it's not overweight?

A friend just bought a new 2015 F250. I suggested an F350 SRW as a minimum. He also put a 40 gallon aux tank in the bed. He's looking at 40 foot plus toy haulers and I already told him he'll be trading soon or will be way overweight.

The toy haulers are getting so big and so many people are so overloaded that I wouldn't be surprised if the RV industry doesn't become way more regulated in the future. Wouldn't surprise me if RV's would be required to stop at the weigh stations. There's way too many people buying 40 foot plus 5th wheels with no towing experience whatsoever, many hauling them with an F250/2500 and all overloaded by a lot.

[Festus2]

[QUOTE=pg_rider;159238]Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?[/QUOTE


After 8 pages, the OP's question has been answered coupled with a lengthy discussion about another member's concern about whether or not his TV and RV are overweight, underweight, legal or illegal.

As JRTJH pointed out there is probably not much more sense in carrying on a discussion that now seems to be going in circles.

For this reason, the thread is now being closed.

Thank you to all who participated.