forward and backwards movement while towing

[archer75]

This is my first time towing anything. Picked up a Hideout 26.5' and tow it with my Nissan Titan.

I'm getting this weird feeling when towing like a water tank is half full and water is sloshing forward and backwards. I do have a Equal-i-zer hitch installed and I got it setup so that the height of the front and rear of my truck hasn't changed all that much when coupled. Just a touch lower.
I'm not getting any side to side sway at all. Just the sensation of moving forwards and backwards.

Any idea what that is? I talked to several people about this and all buy one said they don't know and the one who did experience said it was normal and he drives a Ram 2500.

[BirchyBoy]

Does it happen all the time or when stopping? Maybe check to make sure your ball is the proper size and is tightened to the proper torque. Also check the two bolts large bolts that go through the ball carrier into the hitch.

[archer75]

It's all the time. The hitch ball is the correct size. All bolts are as tight as I could get them. I had to borrow some pretty big wrenches to get it done.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Is it sort of "bucking" when going over imperfections in the road? Or constantly back and forth movement ALL the time?

[archer75]

It's there most of the time. Doesn't seem to be tied to the road conditions. And it doesn't seem to impact vehicle handling.

[NotyetMHCowner]

Hopefully you can find someone nearby (maybe on here) that has towed before to take your rig for a test drive and see whats going on. No matter how we try to help, without you ever having towed anything, it will be near impossible to give you comfort that your rig is normal. There are differences in the behavior of a tow vehicle while towing, but I would hate to let it go IF you do have a problem. When I first started towing, things felt funny. But after towing other trailers, I realized that this is just what it feels like and learned what is "normal".

[therink]

I recommend taking your rig (truck and trailer) loaded as if going camping and weighing at a Cat scale. This will give you a lot of info and confirm that 1) your tongue weight is correct 2) you are not exceeding any limits on the truck.
Once confirmed and weights OK, then you can move to checking adjustments for proper weight distribution and pitch settings. What kind of hitch do you have?
Some jerking motions when towing are normal and more pronounced in shorter wheel base trucks.

[archer75]

I know I'm not over any weight limits. I have several thousand pounds to go till I get there. It did it empty with 10% tongue weight and slightly loaded(not sure tongue weight). It's an Equal-i-zer hitch. Truck is an 06 Titan crew cab with a short bed.
I towed it home from the dealer configured as best I could with the shank not low enough. After I got the new shank I readjusted everything.
The issue persisted through all of that.

[archer75]

Wheelbase is 140" if that matters.

[gtsum2]

Sounds like porpoising. Check all your weights...might not have enough pin weight...should be around 13-15% or so

[bsmith0404]

Sounds like porpoising. Check all your weights...might not have enough pin weight...should be around 13-15% or so

I agree, but not sure how he could get more pin weight on this trailer. The only time I felt anything like this was with an old race car trailer, had to move the axle back 2" this trailer should be balanced as long as it's set up level.

[NotyetMHCowner]

The only problems I have ever had with too little tongue weight was sway. Utility trailers, boats, and camper all would try to sway until I added some tongue weight. In our Rockwood 2603, we would throw our laundry, instant canopy, coolers, etc on the couch (in the front) or on the floor beside it. I didn't even need the sway bar attached most of the time even at highway speeds. But I have never experienced back and forth movement except for going over bumps in the road.

[bsmith0404]

Same here, but I think we are guessing/reaching that what he is feeling may be a minor sway that feels like a porpoising.

[archer75]

It must be tongue weight then. 10% must not be enough. I've gone over my measurements and configuration for the WD hitch setup and it is spot on. The front of the truck is about 1/8 of an inch above the unloaded measurement. The rear is less than an inch lower with WD than unloaded. And the trailer sits perfectly level with WD versus without it but coupled.

But there's only so much weight I can add to the front of the trailer. And if the fresh water tank is full I couldn't possibly add enough weight to the tongue to compensate.

My truck does have the Blistein shocks in the rear i've seen people recommend.

It doesn't feel like i'm bouncing up and down but rather rocking forwards and back. At any speed. 25mph in neighborhoods or 45mph on some of the other streets. Same feeling. No more, no less.

[Ken / Claudia]

Now that your have ruled out equipment loose. Go over a scale and gets axle wts. of truck without trailer and together. I would even get one with fresh water tank full and one empty. If you do not know how or where to check it free at a OR DOT scale I can help. Until you weigh in your guessing at what the hitch wt and each axle really weighs.

[therink]

Question: When you determined your tongue weight was 10 ppercent, is the trailer all loaded up as if ready for camping trip? Food, clothing, toys, etc. You shouldn't have to fill your water tank to achieve 13 percent.
I once had a 33' TT that was rear heavy and my problem was sway. I ended up getting rid of it because no matter what I did, the sway dynamic was unbearable. It was a matter of poor trailer design.

[JRTJH]

I've been reading this thread for the past couple of days and really haven't seen anything that would indicate the problem or any hints on what may be a problem. But based on the most recent comment by Archer75, I started thinking about the "what if" kind of problems....

First, there was a recall on the Lippert Correctrac system. http://www.keystonerv.com/media/1778990/14-215_lci_correct_track_-_web.pdf The trailer in question may have issues with the suspension system. We recently had one member who towed his trailer home, felt some "strange swaying" and when he inspected his trailer, found that the Correctrac system was completely missing the center bolt/alignment component and his suspension was "floating under the chassis" rather than being connected.

We have had a couple of members who received their new trailer with missing spring shackles as well as damaged/bent axles or spring hangers.

You might want to spend some time on a creeper with a good flashlight and just look everything over very carefully. I'm hoping you won't find anything, but with the "pushing/pulling" you describe, you may have a "loose axle" under the trailer or a damaged component that's causing the problem.

Also, keep in mind that the "normal" tongue weight is between 10-15% of the trailer weight. Your trailer specs from Keystone indicate the trailer weighs 4520 empty (shipping weight) with an empty tongue weight of 420 pounds. That's 9% of the shipping weight, so your trailer comes from the factory with a very light tongue weight as compared to the total weight. It shouldn't be necessary for your RV, but on some conventional toy haulers, we have had members who loaded sand bags under the front bed in order to get sufficient tongue weight to offset their toys in the garage. As I said, you shouldn't have to resort to that drastic measure, but if there's no damage to the suspension and no damage to the chassis, I would consider shifting as much weight forward as possible and towing again to see if possibly there is some improvement.

Good Luck

[archer75]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I did check the link you posted for the correcttrac system and mine is ok. In the morning i'll get under it and look at the suspension.

I do have some sandbags I can throw in the front to test but I don't know when i'll get a chance to do that.

I'll post updates.

[theeyres]

My best guess is also that there isn't enough tongue weight. The only other thing would be if the Titan just isn't heavy enough to handle the tongue weight so even though the Equal-i-zer is adjusted properly every bounce compresses the too light rear springs on the Titan. Air bags? Maybe. Pure guessing here.

[JRTJH]

My best guess is also that there isn't enough tongue weight. The only other thing would be if the Titan just isn't heavy enough to handle the tongue weight so even though the Equal-i-zer is adjusted properly every bounce compresses the too light rear springs on the Titan. Air bags? Maybe. Pure guessing here.

Along with these, possibly the P series tires are inducing more side roll and causing the sensation? There are so many possibilities with no way for any of us to "climb under" the rig and see anything.....

From what I've read, it seems that the OP is saying his tongue weight is at 10%, but I still haven't determined how he made that assessment. Is it from an estimate? or has he weighed the trailer and determined exactly what it weighs and how much the tongue weighs? Realistically, the only "reliable" way to know is to put the trailer on a scale and look at the readings on the scale......

[C130]

Does it do it all of the time or any chance it does it when braking? I've had my 5th wheel jerk back and forth once or twice and it was the brake controller; it was set too high. Worst time it was raining very hard and I had to reduce the gain on the brakes but his was only when braking. I'll get it some on concrete roads with the joints in the road.

[archer75]

It's all the time.

[C130]

Well, that throws my one possible scenario out. The only other time I've gotten that feeling was on concrete roads with the joints in the road but that was with a 5th wheel. There's obviously some type of tugging motion between the truck and the trailer but I've never had this with any bumper trailer pull before. I assume it's all level and no brakes dragging?

[BOWWOW]

This sounds so familiar like the infamous Dodge Death Wobble, I had one.
Are you tires sufficient? Do they have proper air pressure? Do you have a stiff enough sidewall? Do you have a ball joint sticking? Maybe you need a sway bar or to upgrade the existing one on the truck!

[archer75]

I do have an aftermarket sway bar on the truck. No ball joint issue. Tires are fairly new LT tires. I did just up the psi but haven't had the trailer out again to test.
All level. Nothing dragging.

[BOWWOW]

What year is the truck?

[archer75]

It's a 2006

[BOWWOW]

Maybe get an alignment done, there's a lot that could go wrong in the front end too.

[sourdough]

I'm thinking the OP needs to get someone familiar with towing to pull the trailer and get their take.

The only time I've ever felt "pushing/pulling" was when I bought my last trailer and the dealer forgot to tighten the fall - it definitely pushed and pulled until I found the problem 60 miles down the road. The other time was with my 5500 lb. boat and the surge brakes on the trailer; they can give the sensation of pushing/pulling at times.

As stated this is happening ALL the time. That leads me to think it would be weight distribution and the trailer pulling up and down on the hitch as he drives along. He has looked at the trailer suspension (and will look further) and it appears OK. To me that leaves the truck. It is an 06 with x? miles and Bilstein shocks. The Titan has leaf springs if I recall. Is there something wrong with the truck suspension that would exacerbate the normal push/pull of the trailer thus letting the driver actually feel them vs being stopped by a firm suspension? Most of the time we talk about sway and ways to compensate for that. A constant push/pull from the trailer is rather unusual.

As has been said, without weights and an experienced person's opinion, we are all just shooting in the dark.

[archer75]

Truck has 38k miles. I'm not having any issues with it. I'm going to put some more weight in the trailer and test it out again next weekend. I also increased tire psi.

Trailer suspension looks fine as far as I can tell. There isn't much to it at all.

[sourdough]

What make/model trailer do you have? Make sure your truck and trailer tires are aired to the max listed on the sidewall. For weight you can also throw some sand bags or bags of concrete across the very rear of the bed of the truck to see if it helps. A scale is probably going to be your best friend if you can find one. Another thought; are you absolutely sure the WD is set correctly? The first time I used one with chain links I over adjusted it to the point that when I went over a dip crossing a street my rear tires would lose contact with the pavement. THAT did cause me to feel pushed. I sounds like yours is right but something to think about.

[archer75]

Trailer is a 2015 Keystone hideout. Model is 24bhe or something like that. The hitch is set perfectly according to the instructions. After I add more weight to test I'll set it up again.

[sourdough]

Some additional things to think about;

Does your truck have the optional towing package? Do you have 4x4 vs 4x2? Trim pkg - SE, LE,XE? Although probably not a part of the push/pull issue they might be an issue.

If you don't have the towing package you will be exceeding the max tongue weight (650-740lbs). Dry it is 720 and that will go up to well over 800lbs. You will probably exceed the max tow weight of 6500 - 7200lbs (5778 dry plus 1942 cargo). You will be very close to exceeding your GCVW which is 12,800 - 13,000 lbs. (5778 dry trlr/1942 cargo/5000-5200truck = 12920).

Towing package is better: Max. trailer weight is 9200-9500lbs vs 7720 max. for trailer. Max tongue weight is 920-940lbs. for the Titan. Ideal tongue weight is 10-15% of the trailer weight. With a 7720 trailer weight 15% would be 1158lbs - exceeding your max tongue weight allowable considerably.

http://www.nissanusa.com/pdf/techpubs/2006/2006NissanTowingGuide.pdf

One last thing to consider is payload which is 1549lbs for your truck. If your tongue weight is 1158 you only have 391lbs left for fuel in the truck (I think I read that their ratings were with everything empty), people, accessories, tools, toys, etc, etc. Even if you don't count fuel you will be overweight.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle/payload33.htm

(This is as close as I could find. Couldn't find anything from a Nissan source)

Doesn't have a lot to do with your push pull I don't think but certainly may make the problem worse. Just stuff to think about. You said you had thousands of pounds of leeway initially - just wanted to point out that probably isn't the case.

[archer75]

It's a 4X4 LE. It does have the factory tow package. Trailer dry is 4520lbs and 420lbs tongue weight. Truck is rated to tow 9200lbs.

[sourdough]

Sorry. You have the 24BHWE vs the BHSWE. You will be in good shape weight wise. Filled in the gap with one too many letters:o

[Ken / Claudia]

I need to ask Archer, you have given out weights. Is the numbers you list from the factory or real weight you checked. The stuff in print is just a guide, think of it as the same as a printed speed of any ammo. Until you check that speed in your gun with a chronograph all you have is a guess or guide. Exactly the same with printed factory vehicle weights. We have ODOT scales free to use if you know where and how. CAT scales at truck stops will cost a few bucks. Either will work.

[wesaysoracing]

I fought this problem with a trailer once, turned out the tires were out of balance , causing the fore and aft shake

[rwmurphy15]

I sort of had the same problem. It was like riding over waves in a ocean the rocking up and down motion. Did not do it all the time but never could figure it out.